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Thread: Afterlife 3
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2022-05-25, 04:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Afterlife 3
How do "I can see bladescape's point about my read being too confident" and "bladescape's throwing shade on me makes him more likely to be a wolf" fit together? It looks kind of contradictory.
Who are wolf!bladescape's partners?I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
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2022-05-25, 04:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2019
Re: Afterlife 3
You're right, it kind of is. The first part is an intellectual reaction, while the second part is an emotional one (basically that I'm worried that blade suspecting me makes me more likely to suspect him).
As for partners, going of my other reads I want to say Xum, but I haven't checked how well they work as partners. As for the third (and maybe fourth? Though four wolves seems like a lot for the number of players) I don't really have any good suggestions. Maybe BW and/or gac, on account of not giving me a lot to work with?
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To clarify, I don't think blade suspecting me is wolfy, I think blade suspecting me might make me more likely to think he's wolfy, if that makes sense.
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@AV: Are there any rules for autolynching or replacing inactive players, by the way?
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2022-05-25, 06:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: Afterlife 3
I guess I'll reserve judgement until I see your ISOs, then.
In the meantime, I'm trying and failing to find a plausible reason for town!bladescapeto maybe-counterclaim. So please provide one.
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Also I don't think there's ever a fourth wolf in an eleven player game. If there is we're in LyLo and I really don't want to be in LyLo rn.Last edited by Snowblaze; 2022-05-26 at 10:52 AM.
I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2022-05-25, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Afterlife 3
Taffimai dying negates my idea that Taffimai was a wolfbuddy with Snowblaze to set up a possible counterwagon. Not really means anything.
Since flipped Town, doesn't mean much. It rules out them being wolfbuddy with bladescape, but, well, we know Taffimai's not a wolf now.
Also negates my idea that Taffimai was a wolfbuddy with Snowblaze to set up a possible counterwagon. So, again, no info.
My guess is that Taffimai was a relatively safe hit by the wolves, letting suspicion stay on whatever townie the wolves think has the most heat.
Could me/bladescape be w/w?
If one of us is a wolf, which is it?
Who are the most likely partners for wolf!bladescape and wolf!me?
If we're both town, who are the wolves?
However, the WIFOM gets so heavy with that hypothesis that I'd rather assume at least one of you is town.
I have no strong reason to think one of you is a wolf over the other, but I thinkbladescape's flip will give more info (as I stated prior to N1 ending), so voting there.
If you're both town, well, the wolves are having some fun and might have this game in the bag.
Since you claimed baner, I think those who voted Elenna gain some towncred if you flip wolf. A wolf would love the baner to get lynched D1, and it's reasonable to say one was asleep around midnight and didn't see the claim. Though I'm not sure of everyone's time zone; it was midnight to 2 am mytime (not sure which).
So I'd lean... eh, no real idea. Guess a vague wolfish feel on Xihirli and Batcathat in that circumstance.
Also, not meaning any offense, but Taffimai and Xumtiil are both players I haven't played with before. I'm getting them mixed up when thinking about who did/said what. That is probably hurting my analysis, at the least giving me a blind spot with regards to them.
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I can think of one that is a lousy reason for a townie to do it (but one a townie might do), and one that's a good reason for a townie to do it.
But I'd like to hear what bladescape says rather than risk giving a wolf an alibi.Last edited by JeenLeen; 2022-05-25 at 02:43 PM.
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2022-05-25, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: Afterlife 3
I think you missed the second correction, which was that Batcathat voted bladescape, not me. Which is significantly more relevant to the current discussion.
I'm assuming your point about if I flip wolf is a typo and it was supposed to be "if I flip town"?
You didn't talk about partners for either of me/bladescape.
Agreed that we shouldn't talk about theories for town!bladescape until he responds.
Going to try and think over what your analysis says about your alignment for a while.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2022-05-25, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Afterlife 3
OH YEAH! That's a major mistake on my part and basically inverts my thoughts on Batcathat based on if either you/bladescape flip wolf. (If you both flip town, doesn't mean much.)
I'll try to redo my "vote pattern" post with corrections. Might be a few hours.
And quite possible I had that typo in there. I'll need to reread.
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I did go ahead and write up feels on the players not heavily discussed.
Omitting Snowblaze, bladescape, myself, and the dead:
Batcathat - got some wolfy vibes, but nothing concrete
Book Wombat - null
flat_footed - some wolfy vibes, but very little to go on.
gac3 - null. Not posted
Xihirli - ...the playfulness of one post gives a slight wolfy read.
Xumtiil - null
Some "nulls" could change based on Snowblaze/bladescape's faction
If I had a good reason not to vote bladescape, I'd probably vote Batcathat. I might've voted Snowblaze instead in that scenario, but the baner claim is strong.
We don't have a vig who tried to kill Snowblaze do we? That'd be helpful to know. But I understand if you (hypothetical vigilante) want to keep your role private.
@Snowblaze: do you get any feedback about if your protection mattered, e.g, if your bane prevented a death?
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2022-05-25, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Afterlife 3
What reason would town have for counterclaiming but then voting (Or trying to in my case) someone other than who they're counterclaiming.
I'll let you think about that one.
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Batcathat feels off for how they're playing.
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Jeen could be wolf too.
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Book/Xi are in the "Too hard won't try" basket for now.
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Gac gets vacation posters plastered on their empty post count.
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Xum/FF are probably fine.
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Snow made a ballsy claim if wolf but probably just going to die eventually.
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Thus comes to an end the first edition of "Blade spams reads for towncred.""Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!
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2022-05-25, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Afterlife 3
I don't receive feedback. Though you're assuming I targeted myself last night, and that I'm capable of self-targeting.
bladescape, the only logical reason for counterclaiming but not voting the person you're counterclaiming is because you don't want that person to die. But if you didn't want me to die, why not just... not counterclaim until day two when we actually had time to discuss things?
My reads in the town!you world line up pretty neatly with yours, with the possible exception of Jeen who's my most "confused null" read. I don't know if that says anything about your alignment.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2022-05-25, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Afterlife 3
"Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!
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2022-05-25, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: Afterlife 3
Okay, that is a possibility I hadn't considered. But... is there really a world where that happens? I don't think wolves seriously believe I'd fakeclaim for self-preservation as town, so my claim is real regardless of yours which means killing me is better for them than killing you.
Eh. I'll think it over for a while. Though I make no promises that I'll come to any kind of definite conclusion.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2022-05-25, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Afterlife 3
Since it's more or less explicitly been said now, I'll add that I believe bladescape's statement as a believable one.
Let's assume Snowblaze and bladescape are both town. Snowblaze claimed baner. The wolves have no reason to doubt that, and baners can usually self-bane, so they don't try to kill her. bladescape sorta claimed baner, maybe at least hinted at some power; the wolves are more likely to target bladescape than Snowblaze.
So, yeah, this reasoning checks out.
Doesn't prove he's town, as a wolf posing as town could easily make the same reasoning, but it's a legit motivation for a townie. If both are town, town!bladescape's best move (if vanillager) is to draw some fire from the wolves.
If both are Town, I can see the wolves hoping we lynch one of them today, the other the next Day (if game lasts that long), and then the wolves have majority.
On the other hand, if either/both are wolves, well, the wolves would be acting identically... accepting one is likely to get lynched today and hope the other gains towncred... so doesn't really help.
So I still don't see anyone more suspicious than bladescape, and I'm leaving my vote on him.
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One additional thought: if Snowblaze were a wolf, I could see her fakeclaiming close to her death to try to draw out a real baner. If you're gonna die, might as well get the most out of it, even if there's scant change a real baner (if existant) is awake and posting. And if there's no baner to contest, you are likely safe if enough are around to switch their votes.
Not saying I strongly think this, but it's a reason a wolf (already up for the lynch) might fakeclaim.
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2022-05-25, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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Re: Afterlife 3
I'm going to agree with JeenLeen here. Unless you were so desperate to pull off another D1 clutch that you fake claimed baner, I think it's infinitely more likely that you are either baner or wolf. Bladescape's counterclaim feels very disingenuous, though, and if he does flip baner we know we have ourselves a wolf... Or a bastard game.
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2022-05-25, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
Re: Afterlife 3
One thing I like about these slower games is that I don't have to go through 100+ posts to ISO someone.
Spoiler: ISO on XumtiilAs has already been pointed out, suggesting a Snow wagon but not voting for it is a little odd, especially when there are no other wagons to speak of. The vote count could be a way to seem solvy, but doesn't have to be (especially since there are no Xum town games to compare with).
Jumping onto the suggested wagon after it has gotten some traction isn't a great look, but not necessarily wolfy.
Hoping someone would join a Taff vote that's explicitly made for meta reasons rather than Taff being a wolf seems weird coming from town. I also get a kind of over-explainy vibe from this post, but I can't really put my finger on it, so probably nothing.
RPing is probably NAI. I could see a wolf doing it to blend in, since other people are doing it, but just doing it for fun (whether as a townie or a wolf) is probably a lot more likely.
Switching after Snow's claim makes sense for a townie. Picking Elenna without any motivation seems pretty odd, but then so does all the votes for Elenna except Snow's self-preservation one, so possibly not wolfy odd.
This reads like Xum is almost claiming not to be a Vanillager himself, which is... probably NAI, I guess? A wolf might like hinting at a useful power without actually claiming, but a townie might not want to out having a power role.
This could be a point against Xum and blade being wolfbuddies, but it could just as well be distancing, since it's not particularly damning.
This is definitely points against them being wolfbuddies. Not sure if it makes Xum look better or worse, since so much depends on blade's alignment.
Also, don't we already know it's a bastard game?
Sadly no smoking guns or whatever the innocence version of smoking guns are. Though while I still don't trust Xum, his vote on blade makes it unlikely that they're wolfbuddies, I think (my logic is mainly that it seems risky for a distancing move, but early to bus. Feel free to poke holes in it), so I'll probably hold off on voting either of them before ISOing blade and figuring out who I trust less.
Did you ever explain this? If not, could you?
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2022-05-25, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-05-25, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Afterlife 3
I don't think two baners would count as bastard.
But it would be unusual.
I could see it as
1) 2 baners to offset wolf power vs. mostly vanillager
2) 2 baners (as far as the baners know) but at least one of them isn't really a baner / has inconsistent powers
Though since bladescape didn't really claim baner, I think it's more likely there's just 1 baner.
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Too little discussion, so let's change a 3/1 vote to 2/2 and see what happens.
Batcathat
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2022-05-25, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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Re: Afterlife 3
I've read a lot about bladescape's counterclaim, but I can't seem to find the post where said counterclaim occurs. I'd like very much to read it.
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2022-05-25, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-05-25, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Afterlife 3
Jeen at least isn't partners with BCH tbh
"Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
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2022-05-25, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Afterlife 3
Bladescape, I'm gonna ask you to concretely say baner or not baner.
Of course, I normally am not one for claiming. But that's the end of the sentence.Spoiler: Check Out my Writing!
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2022-05-26, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: Afterlife 3
I was hoping to become less confused, but I haven't. I wolfread Jeen's post about bladescape's explanation but I like their BCH vote, I was planning to do that myself if they hadn't got there first.
My gut says bladescape is town. I don't trust my gut.
Batcathat... I thought reading their Xumtiil ISO would be a lot more helpful than it was. Granted I only skimmed it, so I'll be digging into it in detail shortly. They're hedging on basically everything but I don't think that's a valid reason to wolfread them specifically.
Xihirli asking for a definite claim is pretty out of character. I don't know what that means for her. Maybe the thinnest of wolfleans in town!bladescape worlds.
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My comments are in italics.
Well. I now get to play "is ridiculous degree of hedgyness actually wolfy for BCH?" I think I need to reread some of their ISOs from previous games to compare. Not now, though, this has taken too long already.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2022-05-26, 03:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2019
Re: Afterlife 3
Yeah, I'm a little self-conscious about how wishy-washy my reads are, but it's probably inevitable with my ISO method basically being asking "How could this post point to X being a wolf?" and "How could this post point to X being a townie?" over and over again.
Anyhow, a quite possibly equally hedging ISO on blade should be along at some point later today.
It would be pretty funny/annoying if the wolves are like Xi, BW and gac, just watching as the rest of us tear each other apart.
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2022-05-26, 03:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: Afterlife 3
Skimming through past games has actually given me a decent level of confidence on wolf!BCH. I found cult!them's ISOs from Fallout (incidentally just had a minor moment of "what if this is a cult game" paranoia followed by realising there was a nightkill so it almost certainly isn't) which were equally hedgy, and in general... town!them seems to have at least one or two confident reads?
I'm hesitant on this because I've been wrong before recently but I... don't really feel like they care about finding wolves this game, it's just going through the motions. Plus building on bladescape's point earlier I found a trend that town!them tends to be pretty suspicious and/or paranoid of me whereas wolf!them gives me easy towncred. And they're doing the latter here. I need to go back and see how much solving I'd done as of their bladescape vote to work out how justified that townread is.
If it was EOD I'd be voting them now but I think I'm still okay with killing bladescape (sort of, maybe) and the tie is better for information.
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Spoiler: everything I did before BCH townread me
Eh, there's more there than I thought, but the last post is probably the only one that deserves any towncred according to my highly biased interpretation of my own meta.
It does make sense for a wolf to want bladescape dead over me if we're both town. Eh. On its own it's not conclusive but there's enough non-conclusive things that they're starting to add up.
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Going to stop there before I'm in danger of confbias. Counter-arguments are welcome.
Will be afk for most of the rest of the day, but should be able to check in at some point and will be awake shortly before EOD.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2022-05-26, 04:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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"Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!
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2022-05-26, 04:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: Afterlife 3
Lol.
Can I get people's thoughts on Jeen's progression on bladescape?
(Which looks something like we should kill bladescape for information -> vote bladescape -> here's why bladescape's claim is believable but I want to kill him anyway -> switches to the counterwagon for more information)
What's the wolfy motivation behind that? Is there one?
Right, now I'm actually leaving, please yell at me if I post any time soon.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2022-05-26, 04:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- Australia
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Re: Afterlife 3
It looks like someone gave Jeen a town role.
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The only world where Jeen is a wolf if we both are town and BCH is also town in which case Jeen is trying to keep me alive to keep town busy with the whole false dichotomy
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I actually don't like how Xum has treated me here either but idk if that's just me."Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
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2022-05-26, 04:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2019
Re: Afterlife 3
The only one I can think of is basically what blade said (though I'm not sure you need to be town for it to make sense). While the wolves would presumably rather kill blade than me (as he's a more experienced player and at least possibly a baner), it would make sense to create a town counterwagon, to limit the risk of someone else creating a wolf one.
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2022-05-26, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Afterlife 3
"Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!
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2022-05-26, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2019
Re: Afterlife 3
Spoiler: ISO on bladescapeNAI (with the same reservation about RPing as with Xum).
I'm still curious about the reasoning here.
Catchy, but I'm not sure what else to think of it.
No part of this seems to be about actually catching wolves, which isn't great.
Lots of conclusions, but barely any reasoning behind it. Then again, I think blade's love of being cryptic holds true whether wolf or townie.
Seems pretty relaxed about likely dying. Instinctively I feel like wolves tend to struggle against the lynch more than townies, but I'm nowhere near certain that's true in general, much less about blade specifically.
This feels like the key to blade's alignment, if correctly interpreted. Could be a genuine claim, could be a joke, could be a ploy to avoid the lynch, could be a ploy to save Snow from the wolves. The fact that blade has been just as vague about explaining it doesn't make it easier.
If it was intended to protect Snow from the wolves after outing herself, it seems strange that he wouldn't change his vote right away. I ended up not mattering, but it easily could have.
It is pretty funny that blade of all people is suspecting me over being too confident in townreading Snow.
More reads without explanations. But again, that's how blade usually plays regardless of alignment so probably NAI. Probably worth looking over again if blade flips wolf, to figure out his partners.
I could see blade trying to sacrifice himself like that, but doing it right then seems strange, since the wolves would likely assume Snow baned herself N1 anyway.
Heh.
I can't really follow blade's progress on Xum, from towny and "probably fine" to suspect.
Kind of a mixed bag. Some things wolfy, a few things towny, a lot of things I just don't know how to interpret. Still, between everything about the maybe-claim seeming so weird, blade's flip possibly giving some indications about Xum and possibly Snow (and presumably myself, from other people's perspective) and good old self-preservation, I'm going with bladescape.
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2022-05-26, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Afterlife 3
Something about this makes me lean bladescape and Batcathat as scumbuddies.
I don't see any good reason for town!bladesscpe, during D2, to confirm/deny if he's a Baner.
Really don't like this.
What does this sentence mean?
I'm just literally not understanding what it means. Like, you think AV assigned me a power role, or you think a seer somehow communicated someone's Town status to me?
--- ---
Oddly, I guess all in all I'd guess Xi was town if I had to.
Best luck for Town, I think, would be if the wolves are bladescape, Batcathat, and, well, someone else. (Assuming 3 wolves).
If the wolves aren't one of us talking, then I think they've basically won the game. We don't have any reason to lynch Book Wombat, gac3, or Xihirli (the latter having posted, but not really said much), so they can just let us kill each other while they quietly laugh on the sidelines.
If there's a town vig, I recommend they shoot one of the quiet ones. Well, or whoever survives out of Batcathat/bladescape.
EDIT: I meant to say that I don't see any reason for town!bladescape to NOT confirm/deny if they are baner.Last edited by JeenLeen; 2022-05-26 at 09:39 AM.
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2022-05-26, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Afterlife 3
Last edited by Xihirli; 2022-05-26 at 06:37 PM.
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