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    Default Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    I'm joining an in-progress game of Curse of Strahd, using a 5th level hobgoblin abjurer as a Gish. All I know about the game is that the party nearly got killed by some hunters.

    However I'm stumped on which feat to take.

    1. Moderately armored, increasing strength.
    2. Resilient: +1 Constitution
    3. Warcaster

    A lot of my melee damage is going to come from Shadow Blade and Green Flame Blade, with Booming Blade in third; by all rights warcaster should be the ideal choice. I don't yet have shield proficiency though, so I'll still have a hand free generally.
    Resilient vs Warcaster, I'm not sure which helps me better overall. +3 to my con is always great, but maybe advantage averages out to be better, even if it's only on one thing.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    Resilient vs Warcaster, I'm not sure which helps me better overall. +3 to my con is always great, but maybe advantage averages out to be better, even if it's only on one thing.
    Advantage is equivalent to anywhere from roughly +3 to +5 to Concentration, depending on the DC, with it trending towards the +3 end more often. +3.5 is commonly tossed around as a simplified overall Advantage bonus for quick math purposes.

    So the general rule of thumb is Warcaster's Advantage is better at lower levels and/or when you already have an even CON score, while Resilient's +PROF is better at higher levels and/or when you have an odd CON score.
    Last edited by RogueJK; 2022-05-23 at 07:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueJK View Post
    Advantage is equivalent to roughly +3.5 to Concentration.

    So the general rule of thumb is Warcaster is better at lower levels and/or when you already have an even CON score, while Resilient is better at higher levels and/or when you have an odd CON score.
    In that case, I should list my current stats. DM gave me an array to allocate as I wished. (Hobs get +2 con and +1 int included below)
    Str: 10
    Dex: 13
    Con: 14 16
    Int: 15 16
    Wis: 12
    Cha: 8

    If I take moderately armored, I'll have 14 dex.
    If I go for resilient, I'll put 14 into dex and the 13 into Con; raising me to 16 con at level 4.
    In either case, I'll have a 14 and a 16.

    If warcaster, they'll be at 13 and 16.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    In that case, I should list my current stats. DM gave me an array to allocate as I wished. (Hobs get +2 con and +1 int included below)
    Str: 10
    Dex: 13
    Con: 14 16
    Int: 15 16
    Wis: 12
    Cha: 8

    If I take moderately armored, I'll have 14 dex.
    If I go for resilient, I'll put 14 into dex and the 13 into Con; raising me to 16 con at level 4.
    In either case, I'll have a 14 and a 16.

    If warcaster, they'll be at 13 and 16.
    Optimally you need a plan to convert odd scores to evens with good feats. Res (Con) is one of those good feats and it applies to more than just concentration checks. If you don't have another feat in mind I'd go in this direction. Warcaster (for me) is only better if you're regularly using at least 2 of the 3 benefits.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by 5eNeedsDarksun View Post
    Optimally you need a plan to convert odd scores to evens with good feats. Res (Con) is one of those good feats and it applies to more than just concentration checks. If you don't have another feat in mind I'd go in this direction. Warcaster (for me) is only better if you're regularly using at least 2 of the 3 benefits.
    I expect to be casting in melee a bit since I'm aiming to play as a gish. And an AOO-spell is going to be much more useful than a 1d6 rapier or something.

    With resilient and moderately armored, I'll be able to convert an odd to an even in either case.
    Last edited by herrhauptmann; 2022-05-23 at 07:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    More broadly to your question I had Inspirational Leader through that mod and it was a solid boon to the whole party. I'm guessing you don't have the 13 Chr. requirement, but there was/ is a thread on here where a lot of posters figured it was pretty much a wash between IL and Healer Feat. If you're trying to keep everyone going that might be worth a look.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    With your stats, I'd definitely just go Moderately Armored, medium armor, 14 Dex & shield will do wonders for your AC, which is great on a character with the spell Shield too. And Dex increase would also apply to your Shadow Blade attacks if that's the path you want to go.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2022-05-23 at 11:32 PM.
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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    With your stats, I'd definitely just go Moderately Armored, medium armor, 14 Dex & shield will do wonders for your AC, which is great on a character with the spell Shield too. And Dex increase would also apply to your Shadow Blade attacks if that's the path you want to go.
    While I agree generally with Moderately Armored here (by rounding out the stat, it essentially amounts to +5 AC with a shield over light armor, which is huge), it is important to note that shield can't be cast with full hands; when gishing it out, it's either a physical shield with that shadow blade or whatever weapon, or the shield spell as backup. Can't have both without War Caster unless you sacrifice your OA by dropping your weapon at the end of every turn (and if that weapon is a shadow blade it also costs your bonus action every turn to call it back).

    Otherwise, the feat is at its absolute strongest when rounding out Dex to 14, dramatically increases durability and also helps with concentration. Between 19-24 AC and the Arcane Ward (remember, damage to the Ward only doesn't provoke concentration checks) you won't be getting damaged much, green-flame blade and booming blade work with full hands (you can use the hand holding a material component for somatic components too), you probably won't be casting other spells very much if you intend to be making attacks and you can probably get around the issue somewhat when you do need to do so (dropping weapons, not always equipping the shield, casting something big you might need first before drawing a weapon and venturing into combat). Keep the aforementioned issue with shield specifically in mind.

    It is a bit of a shame to lose the booming blade (and others) reaction, admittedly, and War Caster is definitely not a bad choice here. But in all honesty, attacking with a 13 Dex is just not very viable, even in tier 1 and tier 2, so the mileage you might be getting isn't exactly amazing. Booming blade reactions don't matter when you're not hitting.
    Last edited by Chaos Jackal; 2022-05-24 at 01:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Gah.
    It's almost worth it to multiclass for a level then take warcaster. If I wasn't losing access to 3rd level spells, I might actually do it.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    The only comment I would have is that if you want to push the gish aspect of the character in terms of melee combat then I think you should increase your attack stat. You will have to use booming blade to keep your damage scaling a bit more - otherwise you might find yourself a bit disappointed with one attack for 3d8+2 (14 dex) using shadow blade (3rd level slot). It would go to 4d8+2 using a 5th level spell slot for it at level 9. Add in a d8 from booming blade and it becomes one 4d8+2 attack up to level 8. This assumes that the DM will let you use booming blade with shadow blade (there is some argument about whether shadow blade satisfies the value requirement for the weapon for booming blade).

    It roughly keeps up with the damage from a rogue but your attack stat is only +2 so you will miss more often than a rogue which can focus on dex and has multiple ways to generate advantage.

    On the other hand, you have a wide selection of wizard spells available. You may find that you contribute more to the party by concentrating on hypnotic pattern or haste on the party melee tank or use your highest level slots for fireball or other AoE damage or control spells - rather than upcasting shadow blade. The character also lacks a good way to replenish their ward. You may want to consider the Eldritch Adept feat to pick up mage armor at will which would be able to fill up your ward between fights. However, CoS tends towards one big fight/day type design rather than multiple encounters, so that may not be a big deal.

    The ward provides temporary hit points equal to 2x wizard level + int modifier. At level 5 this is 13 hit points which is useful but if you do end up getting hit, a lot of the higher level monsters may do more damage than that anyway - especially if you are in melee - so this is a useful feature but you may not be able to rely on it to keep you up in combat - especially concentration - so War caster or resilient con might become essential - but if you want to be in melee then a high attack stat and high AC are also very important - so moderately armored might be more important.

    However, which hobgoblin rules is the DM using? The hobgoblin from Volo's has proficiency with light armor while the revised one in Monsters of the Multiverse does not - so one qualifies to take moderately armored while the other does not. The new version is almost completely different from the old version.
    Last edited by Keravath; 2022-05-24 at 08:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravath View Post
    The only comment I would have is that if you want to push the gish aspect of the character in terms of melee combat then I think you should increase your attack stat.
    Agreed. Since you're limited by the Standard Array, it's going to be tough to pull off an effective Hobgoblin Abjurer Gish character with both a high DEX and a high INT, especially since it appears your DM isn't allowing the modular racial stat bonuses from Tasha's...

    So you may need to modify your character idea a bit.

    If you want to stick with Hobgoblin, I'd considering switching your subclass to Bladesinger, and swapping around some stats. Something like:
    Str: 10
    Dex: 15
    Con: 13+2
    Int: 14+1
    Wis: 12
    Cha: 8
    Then take +1 DEX/+1 INT as your Level 4 ASI.

    With Mage Armor and Bladesong, your AC is 19, same as if you were wearing half plate medium armor and using a shield, without requiring you to spend two feats on Warcaster and Moderately Armored. You also get a speed bonus and +INT to Concentration checks. Your racial Saving Face ability also helps with Concentration checks.

    Shadar-Kai Elf Bladesinger would be a good option here too, with +2 DEX and +1 CON:
    Str: 10
    Dex: 14+2
    Con: 13+1
    Int: 15
    Wis: 12
    Cha: 8
    Then take Elven Accuracy (+1 INT) as your Level 4 ASI.


    If you want to stick to Abjurer, consider dipping a level of Artificer at Level 1 for Medium Armor and Shields, plus CON save proficiency. Go with a race that get's a DEX and INT or DEX and CON bonus. Something like:
    Artificer 1/Abjurer 4
    STR 10
    DEX 14+2
    CON 13+1
    INT 15
    WIS 12
    CHA 8
    Take Warcaster at Level 4. Plan for a +1 INT half feat like Elven Accuracy/Telekinetic/Telepathic/Skill Expert at Level 8. Focus on non-INT-dependent spells like Booming Blade/Shield/Absorb Elements/Magic Missile/Mirror Image/Shadow Blade/etc.
    Last edited by RogueJK; 2022-05-24 at 09:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Jackal View Post
    While I agree generally with Moderately Armored here (by rounding out the stat, it essentially amounts to +5 AC with a shield over light armor, which is huge), it is important to note that shield can't be cast with full hands; when gishing it out, it's either a physical shield with that shadow blade or whatever weapon, or the shield spell as backup. Can't have both without War Caster unless you sacrifice your OA by dropping your weapon at the end of every turn (and if that weapon is a shadow blade it also costs your bonus action every turn to call it back).

    Otherwise, the feat is at its absolute strongest when rounding out Dex to 14, dramatically increases durability and also helps with concentration. Between 19-24 AC and the Arcane Ward (remember, damage to the Ward only doesn't provoke concentration checks) you won't be getting damaged much, green-flame blade and booming blade work with full hands (you can use the hand holding a material component for somatic components too), you probably won't be casting other spells very much if you intend to be making attacks and you can probably get around the issue somewhat when you do need to do so (dropping weapons, not always equipping the shield, casting something big you might need first before drawing a weapon and venturing into combat). Keep the aforementioned issue with shield specifically in mind.

    It is a bit of a shame to lose the booming blade (and others) reaction, admittedly, and War Caster is definitely not a bad choice here. But in all honesty, attacking with a 13 Dex is just not very viable, even in tier 1 and tier 2, so the mileage you might be getting isn't exactly amazing. Booming blade reactions don't matter when you're not hitting.
    Honestly, given that OAs take your reaction, I think most of the time you'll rather just have the reaction open for one of your reaction spells. So I don't think it's necessary the end of the world. Moderately Armored seems like base-level necessary, not just feasible, if you want to do something like this. Not just for proficiencies, but also the Dex; if you're in the frontline and are not an Armor of Agathys tank, you just want that base max 19 AC to start off with.
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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    By the burning hate, I hope he allows the light armored hob. I told him i was doing hob caster with armor.

    For boosting my attacks. Wouldn't Shadow blade (and Greenflame when on shadow) both use my casting stat?

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Honestly, given that OAs take your reaction, I think most of the time you'll rather just have the reaction open for one of your reaction spells. So I don't think it's necessary the end of the world. Moderately Armored seems like base-level necessary, not just feasible, if you want to do something like this. Not just for proficiencies, but also the Dex; if you're in the frontline and are not an Armor of Agathys tank, you just want that base max 19 AC to start off with.
    Yeah, like I said, I'm in agreement. The shield issue is just something to be aware of.

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    For boosting my attacks. Wouldn't Shadow blade (and Greenflame when on shadow) both use my casting stat?
    No. You're making regular attacks, not spell attacks. Green-flame blade and booming blade explicitly mention that (you attack with whatever weapon you're holding) and shadow blade doesn't even have you make an attack, it just creates a weapon with light, finesse, thrown (20/60) and 2d8 psychic damage value. You make weapon attacks, so it's Str or Dex (since it's finesse).
    Last edited by Chaos Jackal; 2022-05-24 at 09:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Why not go bladesinger if you’re gonna be a Gish…use int for atk n defenses to boot

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Well karp.
    That's going to suck.
    I think I can swap stats for +3 dex and int, but con will suffer. I'd waste one point of dex with medium armor though. (Make it up with a shield though)


    Why not bladesinger?
    Don't want to be an elf or half elf.
    While there's a decent novel about them, they're much like bards as far as ridiculousness. "Go into dungeons and sing at people."

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    Why not bladesinger?
    Don't want to be an elf or half elf.
    While there's a decent novel about them, they're much like bards as far as ridiculousness. "Go into dungeons and sing at people."
    The Bladesinger was updated to have no racial requirements though - it doesn't have to be that way. That said, standard array Bladesinger isn't amazing.
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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    Well karp.
    That's going to suck.
    I think I can swap stats for +3 dex and int, but con will suffer. I'd waste one point of dex with medium armor though. (Make it up with a shield though)


    Why not bladesinger?
    Don't want to be an elf or half elf.
    While there's a decent novel about them, they're much like bards as far as ridiculousness. "Go into dungeons and sing at people."
    Lol. I've never thought of "bladesingers" as actually singing in any way ... they make the blade "sing" as it slices into their foes and they can do that as silently as they like :)

    However, if you don't like the name :), you don't have to play it.

    As for elves - I liked the shadar kai option mentioned above - and it comes with a free teleport if you are using the MotM version of it.

    Mechanically, the main reason for bladesinger for a full wizard gish is the extra attack at level 6 and the ability to cast a cantrip instead of one of those attacks which lets you make two weapon attacks - one with booming blade. Also, as a pure wizard, you pick up all the other spells too and if you really want to, you could use shadow blade for all those attacks as well. In terms of melee contribution, it would do more than a hobgoblin abjurer. (If anything, the bladesinger is the 5e archetypal version of a gish) ... and you don't need to sing if you don't want to :)

    ----

    If you want to stick with the hobgoblin abjurer then the suggestion for first level in artificer isn't a bad idea - it doesn't affect your spell slot progression since artificers round up. It gives you medium armor and shields along with con save proficiency which avoids having to take moderately armored or resilient con. It will also give you a few more prepared spells including cure wounds if you need some healing. Shadow blade is a second level spell and if all you want the slots for is to cast it then you will still have 3rd level slots at 5th level so you may not miss the lack of actual 3rd level spells as much.

    However, you will still need a higher attack stat since you want to make a melee capable character - though 3 levels of battlesmith artificer would let you use int to attack with magic weapons - so that might be an option but it will set back the wizard spell progression. Coming up with a fun to play and reasonably effective character is always about the trade offs :)
    Last edited by Keravath; 2022-05-24 at 10:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    I think this is a good example of why it's important to lay a solid foundation of parameters in the OP when asking for character build/optimization advice...

    Stuff like what your stat array is (or at least method of stat generation), as well as what books are allowed, along with what you're wanting out of the character. This helps prevent confusion, or suggestions that aren't applicable to your specific situation.

    Otherwise people will assume that you have access to all of the options currently available. But it sounds like that's not the case here. From your comments about the Hobgoblin race, fixed racial stat bonuses, Bladesingers having to be Elves, etc., it appears that the Monsters of the Multiverse and Tasha's Guide to Everything books are not allowed in your group, which really changes things. Those two recent books made some sweeping changes to the races/classes in D&D5E.

    Similarly, while an Artificer dip is a potentially good route to get armor/shield/CON proficiency on a Wizard, now I'm questioning whether that class is even going to be allowed for you.


    Therefore, I think we're going to need more info before we can offer any meaningful suggestions for you.

    Let's start with: What books are you going to be allowed to use?

    Also, how set are you on being a Hobgoblin, and on using DEX as your attack stat? For example, with only the earlier books, it may be easier to build you a standard array Armored Abjurer Gish using a STR build, such as a PHB Mountain Dwarf or MTOF Githyanki taking the Heavily Armored feat at Level 4 and using a 2H weapon.

    Or a STR-based Hobgoblin Fighter 1/Abjurer X with Heavy Armor and a 2H sword.
    STR 14
    DEX 10
    CON 13+2
    INT 15+1
    WIS 12
    CHA 8
    Going +2 STR at Level 4 and using a Greatsword while wearing Heavy Armor alongside the Defense fighting style. Then either +2 STR, +2 INT, or a +1 CON half-feat at Level 8.
    Last edited by RogueJK; 2022-05-24 at 01:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Feat selection in Curse of Strahd

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    I'm joining an in-progress game of Curse of Strahd, using a 5th level hobgoblin abjurer as a Gish. All I know about the game is that the party nearly got killed by some hunters.
    You might want to do a little digging as to what kind of hunters those were, exactly, because if your group is already going off of the rails, you'll be better prepared if you know that going into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    A lot of my melee damage is going to come from Shadow Blade and Green Flame Blade, with Booming Blade in third; by all rights warcaster should be the ideal choice. I don't yet have shield proficiency though, so I'll still have a hand free generally.
    Have you confirmed with your DM that he allows Booming Blade/GFB to work with Shadow Blade?

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    Resilient vs Warcaster, I'm not sure which helps me better overall. +3 to my con is always great, but maybe advantage averages out to be better, even if it's only on one thing.
    If you want to have a shield and weapon in hand and be in melee and cast spells, Warcaster is the way to go. Unless you have reliable access to a Ruby of the War Mage and are comfortable with that eating up one of your attunement slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    Gah.
    It's almost worth it to multiclass for a level then take warcaster. If I wasn't losing access to 3rd level spells, I might actually do it.
    Artificer is always worth considering for a Wizard. It'll give you Medium Armor + Shield proficiencies and you'll still have 3rd level spell slots even if you don't have 3rd level spells.

    Cleric also has some potential, since it can give you Heavy Armor proficiency even if you don't take it as your first level because you want the Wizard save proficiencies instead.

    Either would save you on Moderately Armored, though.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2022-05-24 at 10:22 PM.
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