OOTS #1258 - The Discussion Thread

[faustin]

Can Serini be trusted in a direct fight against Xykon? She seems pretty shell shocked from the previous encounter and the fates of Lirian and Dorukan, to the point of believing defeating the lich is impossible.

I'm asking because Xykon can be quite crafty when push comes to shove, and knows how to give a breaking speech.

[mashlagoo1982]

When she first used it, I took Serini's hit against Lien as a conditioning method Serini had picked up.

While not the most humane method, physical punishment has often been used to depict animal trainers. I do not believe the comic had really backed this up, but I expected Serini to have some animal handling experience since she filled her dungeon with dangerous creatures.

So, Serini bonking Lien on the head was the same a using a rolled up newspaper to bonk the nose of a misbehaving dog. I still think that is the aim of the comic.

[bunsen_h]

When she first used it, I took Serini's hit against Lien as a conditioning method Serini had picked up.

While not the most humane method, physical punishment has often been used to depict animal trainers. I do not believe the comic had really backed this up, but I expected Serini to have some animal handling experience since she filled her dungeon with dangerous creatures.

So, Serini bonking Lien on the head was the same a using a rolled up newspaper to bonk the nose of a misbehaving dog. I still think that is the aim of the comic.

"Mom has a tendency to bonk people in the head with her staff when she thinks she's made a good point." So either that's not the way Serini looks at it, or she thinks that in general, it's appropriate to try to condition/train people as a regular occurrence in discussions.

[Ionathus]

Can Serini be trusted in a direct fight against Xykon? She seems pretty shell shocked from the previous encounter and the fates of Lirian and Dorukan, to the point of believing defeating the lich is impossible.

I'm asking because Xykon can be quite crafty when push comes to shove, and knows how to give a breaking speech.

Nah, it's all cool -- secretly swap out her staff for a +10 Holy Staff of Smiting and get Xykon to say something she thinks is stupid: we'll get this battle wrapped up in 2 rounds, tops. Put those paladin levels you promised to work, Ms. Toormuck!

"Bonk Evil!"

[brian 333]

Good to know we’ve persuaded you to change your mind and you acknowledge that it’s not funny.

Not funny when it happens to me. Hilarious when it happens to you!

[danielxcutter]

She’s a rogue, so she wouldn’t be a huge help against Xykon regardless of other factors anyways.

Maybe she could take down the more fleshy members of Team Evil though. If her poisons can take down O-Chul they should work on Redcloak.

[JonahFalcon]

I can't believe people don't understand the concept of the dope slap.

Or slaps to tell people to smarten up.

They're funny as hell.

[mjasghar]

Not funny when it happens to me. Hilarious when it happens to you!

That’s the definition of a certain personality

[brian 333]

That’s the definition of a certain personality

According to Mr. Mel Brooks, that's the definition of comedy.

[mashlagoo1982]

"Mom has a tendency to bonk people in the head with her staff when she thinks she's made a good point." So either that's not the way Serini looks at it, or she thinks that in general, it's appropriate to try to condition/train people as a regular occurrence in discussions.

The latter of the two is what I was suggesting.

[KorvinStarmast]

According to Mr. Mel Brooks, that's the definition of comedy.

Mel knows comedy.

Can Serini be trusted in a direct fight against Xykon?

She can be trusted to oppose Xykon, but why do you insist on the 'direct fight' in the framing of that question? (Beyond that, rogues in 3.x get hosed by the 'you can't sneak attack undead' thing)

[The MunchKING]

I can't believe people don't understand the concept of the dope slap.

Or slaps to tell people to smarten up.

They're funny as hell.

A place KNOWN for it's exceptional humor, I'm sure.

[InvisibleBison]

I can't believe people don't understand the concept of the dope slap.

Or slaps to tell people to smarten up.

They're funny as hell.

And I have trouble understanding why some people don't seem to understand that other people might have different senses of humor than they do. For example, I didn't find either of those clips remotely amusing.

[JonahFalcon]

And I have trouble understanding why some people don't seem to understand that other people might have different senses of humor than they do. For example, I didn't find either of those clips remotely amusing.

You're reading the wrong webcomic then, because Belkar using a kobold's head as a bowl for chips is considered humor.

May want to avoid Monty Python, too. Especially the Organ Donation segment from Meaning of Life.

EDIT: Oh, speaking of violent humor, Serini was flailed alive by Xykon as he cracked a joke about making a 3/8-ling, so I think Serini can bonk whoever she wants on the head.

Twice.

[Larsaan]

Honestly, while I personally don't find Serini's bonking amusing, I really don't mind if people enjoy it as a joke. I was never "calling for outrage" or whatever, just making a point about character analysis. It's possible for Serini to be a funny character and an unpleasant, obnoxious person.

Though it should be noted that how well a character works in slapstick comedy is usually inversely proportional to how sympathetic they are as a character. If we're supposed to think of Serini as a sympathetic character, well, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure that appealing to genre conventions, when discussing a comic whose main goal for the last decade or so has been to rail against genre conventions, is as sturdy an argument as some people seem to think.

[hungrycrow]

You're reading the wrong webcomic then, because Belkar using a kobold's head as a bowl for chips is considered humor.

May want to avoid Monty Python, too. Especially the Organ Donation segment from Meaning of Life.

EDIT: Oh, speaking of violent humor, Serini was flailed alive by Xykon as he cracked a joke about making a 3/8-ling, so I think Serini can bonk whoever she wants on the head.

Twice.

I don't think either of these examples are supposed to be amusing. We're supposed to be disgusted by how casually monstrous they are.

Though it should be noted that how well a character works in slapstick comedy is usually inversely proportional to how sympathetic they are as a character. If we're supposed to think of Serini as a sympathetic character, well, you can't have your cake and eat it too..

How sympathetic the target of slapstick is matters a lot too.

[bunsen_h]

According to Mr. Mel Brooks, that's the definition of comedy.

I.e., "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."

[Quizatzhaderac]

I can't believe people don't understand the concept of the dope slap.

Or slaps to tell people to smarten up.

They're funny as hell.

I've read this thread from page one. Literally everyone gets the joke.

[JonahFalcon]

I don't think either of these examples are supposed to be amusing.

Yes. They were.

Now, let me whisper this:

Humor is subjective.

You can say something isn't funny.

But I think it's hilarious.

Like I said, I hope Serini bonks everyone on the head.

And God forbid you watch a Tom & Jerry cartoon.

[Liquor Box]

Humor is subjective.

Yes, you are right about this.

Which is why this comment misses the mark by so much:

You're reading the wrong webcomic then, because Belkar using a kobold's head as a bowl for chips is considered humor.

May want to avoid Monty Python, too. Especially the Organ Donation segment from Meaning of Life.

Humour is subjective so people are allowed to not find Serini or your two movie clips funny, but still find other parts of the comic funny (or even arguably similar things like Belkar using the kobold as a hat) or Monty Python or Tom and Jerry.

Personally I found the stuff with the Kobold's head funny and not really Serini hitting people with her stick, probably because of the creativeness, ridiculousness an extent of the indignity being inflicted.

So to sum up. Everyone knows it was a joke, everyone knows that it is comparable to things like slapstick, some people find it funny some people don't, nobody is offended by it or saying that others shouldn't find it funny. There was discussion of whether it was justified for Serini to hit them (in the full knowledge that it was meant as a joke). Hopefully that clears things up.

[JonahFalcon]

Answer me this:

If none of the Order or the Paladins are upset at Serini, why are you?

[Liquor Box]

Answer me this:

If none of the Order or the Paladins are upset at Serini, why are you?

Who are you asking? Who do you think was upset? How do you know the people being hit weren't?

The discussion was whether Serini's behaviour in hitting people was reasonable in the circumstances. Some people (including me) didn't think so. Doesn't mean we were upset, or didn't get that it was meant (by the author, not the character) as a joke. Have you ever been critical of a character action without being upset by it?

[mjasghar]

How dare people have different opinions on matters! The horror! The horror!

[InvisibleBison]

Answer me this:

If none of the Order or the Paladins are upset at Serini, why are you?

I'm upset with Serini because I consider her behavior to be inappropriate. I see no reason to subordinate my judgement to anyone else's, especially not fictional characters whose actions are limited by the needs of the plot.

[JonahFalcon]

Anyway, I love in the first panel that Durkon is so sad Roy's plans to kill Xykon were dashed. Everyone else is confused or neutral.

[Fyraltari]

Anyway, I love in the first panel that Durkon is so sad Roy's plans to kill Xykon were dashed. Everyone else is confused or neutral.

He's feeling guilty.

[arimareiji]

Anyway, I love in the first panel that Durkon is so sad Roy's plans to kill Xykon were dashed. Everyone else is confused or neutral.

Now I'm imagining that as an alignment, Lawful Confused. (^_^)°