Pendell reads the Silmarillion

[diplomancer]

This seems like a good point to share a fascinating theory on the identity of the Lord of the Nazgul, and the Fall of Numenor I found (and saved the link for) years ago: http://www.zarkanya.net/Tolkien/origins_of_Nazgul.htm
I'll quote a few passages to convey the general idea, but if it's at all of interest, I recommend reading the whole thing. It's well researched and written, and makes what I find to be a compelling case that fits the "feel" of Middle-earth perfectly.

That's an interesting theory, both possible and plausible. That the Witchking was originally a Numenorean is, I believe, canon (though he could have been born in Middle-Earth) and the chronology fits. But I feel that it goes against the "logic" of the story. Ir gives too much agency to Sauron.Men don't need a Ring to be corrupted.

[hamishspence]

Three of the Nazgul were supposed to be of Numenorean origin:

"Yet Sauron was ever guileful, and it is said that among those whom he ensnared with the Nine Rings three were great lords of Númenórëan race."

It's not an implausible idea, that one or more might even be residents of Numenor itself, rather than "settlers".

[pendell]

Three of the Nazgul were supposed to be of Numenorean origin:

"Yet Sauron was ever guileful, and it is said that among those whom he ensnared with the Nine Rings three were great lords of Númenórëan race."

It's not an implausible idea, that one or more might even be residents of Numenor itself, rather than "settlers".

Indeed, and "Great lords" implies either of the royal family or those closely akin, like the house of Amandil which is not royal but is descended from the royal line by a daughter. Probably not from the houses of the elf-friends, but there's a black sheep in every family.

But I feel that it goes against the "logic" of the story. Ir gives too much agency to Sauron.Men don't need a Ring to be corrupted.

Both can be true; which is, the witch king and his fellow wraiths may have been already corrupt , which may be why Sauron gave them the rings. While the rings will eventually corrupt anyone, Sauron probably gets maximum benefit from a willing host; I would hazard the fall will be quicker and he has to wait less time for the benefit. Also, the more the wraith is willing, I suggest the more of its natural gifts and abilities will come through. By contrast, someone wraithified by force, I would expect to always be hesitant. While they might not be able to refuse Sauron's order they might be able to slow-roll his orders or apply the bare minimum effort they can get away with. That's what forced labor has always done throughout the ages, ring or no ring.

The way I see it, the nine rings are the toughest job interview in Middle-earth -- out of the thousands or millions of humans in the world, Sauron can choose nine. So he would look for those that are bold, ambitious, highly skilled in war, and utterly ruthless. A good person, like Faramir, might refuse the gift of a ring altogether. So I think a good ringwraith would have to have all the other talents goings for them but otherwise not being especially bright, so they'd accept a gift from "Annatar" and not realize what was wrong until it was too late.


So I think, for most of the nine, they were already evil and corrupt in themselves when Sauron gave them their rings. Their evil built off of each other in a vicious circle. I don't think they were naturally good people turned wicked. As with Bilbo, the powers of fate watch over the innocent and frequently provide a way of escape from such traps.

ETA: As I recall, nine were given to the 'proud and great'. This implies the people who got the rings were people like Cersei or Joffrey or Stannis from Game of Thrones; people of high position who wanted still more. Someone like Stannis might have been initially hesitant, but at the end he would stop at nothing to achieve his goals no matter how unsavory. He'd have been an ideal candidate for a ring.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[pendell]

Akallabeth: The Downfall of Numenor
Part 3: That sinking feeling

Spoiler

Show

At the end of our last segment Tar-Palantir the far-sighted, king of Numenor, has died of grief. His daughter, Miriel, is by right the ruling queen of the Numenoreans; since the sixth monarch the rule is that the crown passes to the oldest progeny of the royal line regardless of gender. The other ruling queens are Tar-Ancalime , Tar-Telperion and Tar-Vanimelde.

However, there are intrigues afoot. Gimilkhad, as told, was the younger brother of Tar-Palantir, his polar opposite in matters open and secret. He died an early death in his 200s; his son is a victorious commander in the Numenoreans' wars of conquest in Middle-Earth, a Ceasar-figure. Returning from war with rich booty, he gives it out in order to make allies and win a political following. Thus, he is able to force Miriel to marry him and , once he does, he seizes the scepter, taking a royal title which is not his by right, and rules in his own name, choosing the throne name Ar-Pharazon, "the Golden". Miriel is apparently a prisoner in her own palace.

"The Golden", eh? Shouldn't his name be "Au-Pharazon" then? eh? eh?

...

tough crowd.

ANYWAY, we see the continued decline of the Dunadain in this, for not only is this "wedding" a forced marriage against the laws, but also in that , as first cousins, such a marriage violates cosanguinity regulations also in force on the island. But Ar-Pharazon, like Caesar and Marc Antony, cares nothing about laws; he bends them to his own purpose. The rule of law in Numenor is dead; it is now a full tyranny. And he is determined, like Alexander the Great, to rule the whole world. And the first order of business is Sauron. He orders full-scale mobilization; a great horde of weapons and equipment is smithied, and they sail in a massive fleet to Umbar, on the shores of Middle Earth.

It is a glorious moment which even the Faithful look back on with a certain amount of pride.

In an echo of the scene before the Black Gate in Return of the King, Ar-Pharazon, 25th king of the Numenoreans, dispatches heralds demanding that the Lord of the Black Land come forth and be judged.

The servants of Sauron take one look, and desert en masse.

Seeing no hope in war, Sauron unconditionally surrenders. Wearing his guise of Annatar, Lord of Gifts, he humbles himself before the heir of Elros. All he says seems fair and wise and the king, in his arrogance, takes him back as captive to Armenelos, where he will serve as an advisor for many decades.

Sauron pretends hesitation, but in fact that was exactly what he wished when he surrendered; to deceive the Numenoreans by false counsels and so destroy them.

I'm a bit surprised that Sauron doesn't offer him one of the nine rings in token of good will. Is it that Ar-Pharazon knows better? Or is it that there can only be one keeper of a ring at any one time, even if that keeper is a wraith with little self-will left. Supposedly Sauron took back the rings of the wraiths and held them as hostage for their good behavior; but this didn't mean he could give out one of the rings to bring even more humans under his sway.

Three years pass. Sauron has earned his way into the king's favour and all his counselors suck up to him, save Amandil who doesn't trust him.

Sauron gainsays all the Valar's teachings, claiming that they merely hide humans from the truth for their own gain , keeping them away from the true lord of Middle-Earth. In secret, he tells Ar-Pharazon that he speaks of Morgoth, who can give rich gifts to those who serve the Lord of Darkness.

Ar-Pharazon apparently knows nothing of the original Morgoth, how he was a liar without shame. Ar-Pharazon turns to the worship of the dark, first secretly but finally openly, and in the face of his people. Most of his people follow him, and the lot of the Faithful grows worse; they are now called Rebels.

Amandil is dismissed as the King's counselor. No indications of what Miriel is doing; there appears to be no attempt made to place her back on her rightful throne, despite the fact Ar-Pharazon is a usurper ruling illegally. Why not? Is she co-operating with him? Or is it just that this would be a futile gesture, since Ar-Pharazon is popular with the people?

Amandil returns to the city of Romenna, while Sauron advocates that the white tree be cut down, thus severing their ties forever with the Valar. Ar-Pharazon is hesitant, but Amandil is certain that sooner or later he will have his way.

At this , Isildur undertakes a stealth mission; sneaking into the hallow and evading or killing the guards, he succeeds in stealing a fruit of the tree, which he brings back to his father's house. There it is tended and preserved with great care, though Isildur is badly wounded in the adventure and takes a long time to recover, possibly with supernatural aid.

After this incident Ar-Pharazon yields to Sauron, and the white tree is felled. A great temple is built in Armenelos, with a silver dome, which is soon blackened. Within this place, on its altar, Sauron kindles the first fire with the wood from Nimloth; a terrible gray smoke goes up before blowing away into the west.

Things become awful on the island. Sauron and his emissaries run a troll farm, provoking anger and strife along every edge and faultline in society. The humans have become quick to anger and slay each other over trifles, like the orcs. And for all their worship of the dark and of death, death does not depart from them; instead it comes sooner and it's pretty awful when it comes.

Within Sauron's temple, human sacrifice is made on the altar daily. Usually, these victims are among the Faithful, accused on trumped-up charges. That is, while the charges are usually false some among the faithful are so radical the charges actually prove out.

The ordinary people and lord of Numenor have no problem with any of this ; they are greatly growing in wealth and power. Their expeditions to Middle-Earth are now little more than piracy, in which they loot and destroy the ordinary inhabitants and carry the plunder back to enrich themselves. They also bring their love of human sacrifice with them, and the tales told of them are dreadful.


And now, when the world has become a little Mordor and Ar-Pharazon is feeling his age, Sauron suggests he build a great armada, sail into the west, and wrest immortality from the valar by armed force. Secretly, of course, he hopes that the Valar will kill both Ar-Pharazon and his army, leaving Sauron the undisputed ruler of the island and, therefore, of the world.

Amandil, seeing all this, calls his sons together and warns them to stay out of the war; to get to sea in ships and wait on events. As for himself, he will take a ship to Valinor and plead for the pardon of the Valar, "for there is only one loyalty from which no man can be absolved in his heart for any cause." His plan is to go alone, so that if there is a punishment for breaking the Valar's ban, he will suffer it himself rather than all his people.

He takes ship, and is never seen again. The author notes "Men could not be saved a second time by such an embassy, and for the treason of Numenor there was no easy absolving."

They board the ships to evacuate with all they cannot bear to part with, including the seven far-seeing stones and the new white tree, which is on Isildur's ship and guarded by him personally.

The Valar are aware , and just as in Dragonlance there were the Thirteen Days before the Cataclysm, and in much other apocalyptic literature, so there are supernatural signs and warnings to tell the humans "Don't do this".

-- The weather turns foul, which it never was before. Some clouds look like great eagles with lightning in their wings, a clear message. But Sauron puts the words in the king's mouth which he rallies the people and continues down the path.
-- Lightning multiplies and kills people in the hills.
-- The ships of the Numenoreans every now and then are destroyed by Osse, which had never before happened in all their history.
-- Lightning strikes the temple in Armenelos, but Sauron turns this to his advantage, standing on the roof and defying the lightning. At this the onlookers of the King's Men hail him as a god, and obey him in all things.
-- There is a great earthquake, and smoke issues from the previously-dormant Meneltarma.
-- Finally, the eagles overfly the island in a land, threatening and terrifying.

But for all these warnings, Ar-Pharazon hardens his heart. He finally boards his flagship, ALCARONDAS ("Castle of the Sea") and sails to Valinor.

Ar-Pharazon's fleet anchors around Tol Eressea and the king beholds the mountain of Taniquetil, high and white and beautiful, and at the last minute, doubt over takes him.

For a minute all is silent, and doom hangs as if by a thread.

But come on, it's not like Ar-Pharazon has come all this way just to turn back at the last moment. He's spent years hardening himself for this moment. So at last he overcomes his final waverings and steps onto the undying lands, waving his sword and challenging the Valar to battle.

Manwe has no interest in fighting the children of Illuvatar; so he looks at Illuvatar and lays down his sign of office. "Eru? It's over to you. They're your kids and your problem. I won't be responsible."

Eru takes terrible action in response.

A chasm is opened in the sea, and a great earthquake occurs. Ar-Pharazon and his men on the land are buried under falling hills where, it is said, they will wait until the final battle at the world's end.

The ships of the Numenoreans are swallowed by the waves from the chasm; none escape.

Fire bursts from the Meneltarma back on the island of gift, and after much convulsion the green, cold wave mounts the island and takes all to the bottom. The gifts of the powers are for them to grant or withhold, as they choose, and the land of gift is now being taken back.

Sauron himself gets a nasty surprise , sitting in the temple where victims are still burning before him. He had laughed when he heard the trumpets of the sailing ships and he laughs now, plotting what he will do with the king gone, when the waves come for him and he can't find a form capable of swimming. Don't know why he won't turn into a fish, but his body drowns. His spirit leaves on a dark wind, clutching the One Ring with him, back to Mordor, where he creates a new body for himself, one that is dreadful and terrible to behold; never again can he appear fair in the eyes of men.

And last of all Tar-Miriel, the queen, is taken by the waves as she strives to the high shrine atop the mountain -- though, given it is now an active volcano -- seems dangerous in the extreme. She doesn't make it, and is the last casualty of Numenor, the last queen.

As terrible as this is, especially for the infants and the children, I can't help but think it is a mercy for Middle-Earth that Numenor is no more. Had the island survived, Sauron would have ruled it. The lot of infants and children under his rule might have been immeasurably worse than a mere drowning -- they might have been mutated by his dark arts into some dreadful creature. Certainly they would have nothing to look forward to but misery.

We also find, far later, that Valinor has been removed right out of the world and the world is now round -- "bent", in Tolkien's phrase. it is now only possible to reach Valinor by magic.

The ships of the faithful -- 3 for Elendil, and 2 each for his sons Anarion and Isildur -- are borne by the waves back to MiddleEarth, and wrecked there.

The refugees get on with the business of founding kingdoms in exile in the northwest of middle-earth; they believe that Sauron has also perished in the disaster, and they can now enter into an age of peace. It is, of course, not so. Sauron returns with war to overthrow them. The surviving Numenoreans form the Last Alliance with Gil-Galad, High-King of the Elves, and together they make war on Sauron. They win, and besiege Barad-dur. Anarion, Elendil's second son, dies when a stone is dropped on his head from the tower. The last combat is fought on the slopes of Mount Doom between Sauron himself on the one hand with Elendil and Gil-Galad on the other. The three combatants kill each other, and Isildur , coming on the wreck, takes a little souvenir from Sauron's hand .


And that is the end of one story and the beginning of another.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[factotum]

The Valar have no power outside the Circles of the World, as far as we know, which is why they probably had to call Daddy in to do the job for them. It does kind of indicate just how powerful and scary that Numenorean army was that they had to go to those lengths, though--I guess if they'd tried fighting them directly they'd have (a) lost a lot of people and (b) maybe even risk Valinor suffering a similar fate to Beleriand when Morgoth was defeated.

[pendell]

The Valar have no power outside the Circles of the World, as far as we know, which is why they probably had to call Daddy in to do the job for them. It does kind of indicate just how powerful and scary that Numenorean army was that they had to go to those lengths, though--I guess if they'd tried fighting them directly they'd have (a) lost a lot of people and (b) maybe even risk Valinor suffering a similar fate to Beleriand when Morgoth was defeated.

Agreed. I have no doubt whatever that the army which crushed Angband would have no trouble overcoming the Numenoreans -- but they can't defeat the Numenoreans without wrecking Aman in the process. Besides, I get the distinct impression the children of Illuvatar are outside the jurisdiction of the Valar. Which may explain why they didn't resist Feanor's departure with armed force or lift a finger to save the Teleri when they were slaughtered by the Feanorians.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Divayth Fyr]

Agreed. I have no doubt whatever that the army which crushed Angband would have no trouble overcoming the Numenoreans -- but they can't defeat the Numenoreans without wrecking Aman in the process. Besides, I get the distinct impression the children of Illuvatar are outside the jurisdiction of the Valar. Which may explain why they didn't resist Feanor's departure with armed force or lift a finger to save the Teleri when they were slaughtered by the Feanorians.

I think the latter is the more important bit - Valar shown time and again they don't want to mess with the fates of the children of Illuvatar (with some exceptions I guess), especially on a larger scale. Hence they turn to him to sort the mess out.

And I have a feeling they'd have enough power to simply wash the army away with some huge waves if they really wanted to.

[factotum]

And I have a feeling they'd have enough power to simply wash the army away with some huge waves if they really wanted to.

To do that they'd have to perforce have tsunamis flowing right through Valinor, which doesn't seem a great idea.

[J-H]

Ar-Pharazon and his men on the land are buried under falling hills where, it is said, they will wait until the final battle at the world's end.

I don't recall anything else about this aside from a bit about Morgoth also escaping from the void at the end of things as well. I don't think Tolkein ever filled this in, but given his field of study and personal beliefs, I suppose there's some sort of Armageddon/Ragnarok mashup that's assumed to happen at the end of the world.

[Divayth Fyr]

To do that they'd have to perforce have tsunamis flowing right through Valinor, which doesn't seem a great idea.

Well, the Pelori would probably shield most of Valinor itself from the waves...

I don't recall anything else about this aside from a bit about Morgoth also escaping from the void at the end of things as well. I don't think Tolkein ever filled this in, but given his field of study and personal beliefs, I suppose there's some sort of Armageddon/Ragnarok mashup that's assumed to happen at the end of the world.

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dagor_Dagorath

[KorvinStarmast]

Well, the Pelori would probably shield most of Valinor itself from the waves...

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dagor_Dagorath

I think that a measure of bitter irony is present, conceptually, in Dagor_Dagorath, given Tolkien's service in The War to End all Wars.

[Grim Portent]

To do that they'd have to perforce have tsunamis flowing right through Valinor, which doesn't seem a great idea.

I'm quite certain that they could sink a fleet without needing tsunamis that can threaten their own continent.

For one thing we know they can control the weather to a substantial degree, so they could just becalm the fleet and let them starve to death and/or die of exposure while drifting aimlessly, or use whirlpools to suck them to the sea floor. Or hit the ships with lightning to set them on fire, or any of a number of other things. The Valar can build mountains, even diminished as they are with the advancing of years sinking a few hundred ships should be well within their abilities.



I always feel that the Numenorean fleet being deus ex machina'd away is a bit narratively unsatisfying personally. The Valar have a long history of neglecting Middle Earth while living in Aman, facing few trials over the millennia while the elves, dwarves, men and orcs have spent many long years in torment, pain, fear and deprivation. Now someone is actually planning to bring conflict to the one place the Valar can't just ignore it, and they immediately cry foul and get help from dad.

[Kornaki]

Are they allowed to sink the ships, or do they have to wait for them to land to prove they broke the rules?

[Grim Portent]

Are they allowed to sink the ships, or do they have to wait for them to land to prove they broke the rules?

Terms unspecified.


Osse sinks a few ships in the lead up to the invasion attempt, which presumably would have killed some of them, but elsewhere it's suggested the Valar aren't allowed to kill mortals other than the ones altered by Morgoth, which then raises the question of why he could sink ships before they had gone fully bad and not after. Presumably Manwe and/or Mandos told him to stop, given that they are the voices most in favour of 'do nothing' based plans.

Similarly the Valar caused lightning and earthquakes on Numenor, which killed people, before Eru just destroyed the place in it's entirety for them.

So I think the Valar can kill elves and men, they just don't do it often and shy away from doing it even when it's necessary.

[factotum]

Terms unspecified.

Actually, pretty sure the terms are defined quite well--the Ban of the Valar means that no Numenorean ship can sail West far enough that they can no longer see Numenor itself. The only slight problem is that we're told you can see Tol Eressea from the highest mountains in Numenor, and that's within easy view of the Calacirya pass through the Pelori, so it really wouldn't take long for the ships to reach the shore after exceeding the Ban.

[Grim Portent]

Actually, pretty sure the terms are defined quite well--the Ban of the Valar means that no Numenorean ship can sail West far enough that they can no longer see Numenor itself. The only slight problem is that we're told you can see Tol Eressea from the highest mountains in Numenor, and that's within easy view of the Calacirya pass through the Pelori, so it really wouldn't take long for the ships to reach the shore after exceeding the Ban.

They (the Valar) kill people before the ban is actually broken, so it's not exactly a hard and fast restriction on when they can start smiting the Numenoreans.

[pendell]

Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

Final chapter

Spoiler

Show

We start with a flashback to Sauron the Maia, Lieutenant of Morgoth, temporarily repents after Thangorodrim falls but it doesn't stick; Morgoth has "addicted" him to evil and he can't kick it without the help of the Valar and Maiar. The

Beleriand is wrecked by the war; the river Lhun has been expanded to be the Gulf of Lhun, on the sea. This region is named Lindon, and Gil-Galad the high king rules here. Elsewhere, survivors of Doriath and Ossiriand cross the blue mountains and settle in forests and mountains of middle-earth. The Teleri, among them, never forget their longing for the sea, though they live far-distant from it. The Noldor create a settlement in Eregion, near to Khazad-Dum, and they make a close alliance with the dwarves there, as close as has ever been made.

Celebrimbor the son of Curufin lives here, and they surpass the smithcraft of all the earlier jewel-smiths, save Feanor himself.

Sauron, meanwhile, wanders the land in a fair guise with the intent of deceiving people into his rule. He makes a hard try for the elves, as they are the most powerful children of Iluvatar. He does not go to Lindon, however, as neither Gil-Galad nor Elrond trust this "Annatar".

But he gets on well with Celebrimbor and the smiths of Eregion, and it is here they forge the Rings of Power. The elves' intent for these tools is to preserve the world. They know that it is changing, coming more and more under the dominion of humans, and they wish to stop this process of change, to bring about a never-ending stasis in which all that they love will be preserved. The rings do indeed have this effect, granting long-life.

Sauron assists them in making the nine and the seven. However, while he forges the One Ring to grant him superuser privileges to the minds of the other wielders. the elves create three rings which are the pinnacle of all their efforts -- Narya of Fire, Nenya of Water, and Vilya of Air.

However, the minute Sauron finishes his work and places the One Ring on his finger, the elves are immediately aware of him and take off their own rings. The mask torn, Sauron assaults Eregion in open war in order to reclaim the rings. He manages to recover the nine and the seven, but the three escape, which is a great boon, for Sauron had no hand in their making.

Sauron perverts and corrupts the rings in his possession, and gives them out to the peoples he chooses -- 7 to dwarves, and nine to humans, whom he finds the readiest to his will. This implies that the rings don't have a racial restriction built-in, and the fact that those numbers went to those peoples is Sauron's choice -- he good have given all 16 to humans, if he wanted. They are accursed and betray all who use them.

The seven rings are a bit of a failure when it comes to the dwarves -- having an alien thought-pattern, they cannot be dominated. They are also so tough and long-lived they will not turn to shadows. The major effect of the rings is both the awakening of a lust for gold and the ability to make use of it. Each of the seven rings is the foundation of a great dwarvish hoard, but it ultimately turns to their undoing. Thror, Thorin's grandfather, bore one such ring, and his ancestors had dwelt in Khazad-dum. Perhaps it was the greed induced by the ring which caused them to delve too deep and unbox a balrog.

The nine humans , however, works out just as expected. They are given out to proud and great men, who use their rings to become great heroes and kings. They can walk unseen if they will, and they can use sorcery, summoning and calling spirits from the unseen realm to answer questions and do their bidding. Unfortunately for them, most of the time these are phantoms of Sauron who lead them astray. Over the course of several hundred years, one by one, they fade and enter the shadows. And so the Nazgul are born.

Sauron declares himself king of the world and, using the allies created by the rings, seeks out to dominate the world. While he can still put on a fair face, he rules by force and fear when it is possible. This begins the Black Years, when the elves flee Middle-Earth to escape Sauron. Perhaps this is in accordance with Eru's will, that they should be hounded out?

Gil-Galad still holds Lindon, and Galadriel the realm of Lorien. And of course there are the Numenorean havens; but all else is under Sauron's rule. Until Sauron goes up against the Numenoreans and comes out second-best. The events of the Akallabeth follow.

He returns to Middle-Earth as a spirit, escaping with the ring only, to find Gil-Galad has grown greatly in power in his absence. The Faithful arrive as refugees to found the realms of Gondor and Arnor. With them they carry the seven palantir, gifts of the Noldor so they can still see Tol Eressea and their friends. They also carry the white tree, which is planted in Isildur's city of Minas Anor, since he's the one who saved it in the first place.

Sauron assaults the southern kingdom and destroys Minas Ithil. He is held at Osgiliath by Anarion, but Sauron prepares a second assault. Anarion appeals to his kin for help, and so the last alliance is formed. The final allliance consists of every species of creature, intelligent or otherwise, save the elves.

... Wait, does that mean we had some orcs fighting on the side of the good guys? That's certainly what this implies.

Seven years Barad-Dur is besieged, and Anarion is killed when a rock is dropped on his head. The final battle, on the slopes of mount doom , kills Sauron, Elendil, and Gil-Galad. it will be a long time before Sauron is active again.

Isildur, however, takes the ring for his own. He is soon betrayed by it to his death at the Gladden Fields, and the ring goes into hiding in the river.

The Valar dispatch the Istari to Middle-Earth to protect against Sauron, who soon enough arises again in Mirkwood, in the tower of Dol Guldor. Olorin is a wanderer and has much to do with the elves. Galadriel wants him to be the leader of the council, but he isn't interested; has no wish to be tied down. So the lot falls to Curunir, who sets up shop in Isengard as a lord of humans, and delves deep into the study of the rings. This has a bad effect on him, and he adapts Sauron's methods.

When he realizes Sauron is awake again, he assumes the ring will once again seek for its master, and sets a watch on the Gladden Fields.

The Dunedain decline; in the northern kingdom they divide into multiple petty kingdoms and are eventually destroyed by the kingdom of Angmar, ruled by the Witch-King, Lord of the Nazgul. In the southern kingdom the king rides off to challenge the lord of the Nazgul, who after being driven from Angmar had captured Minas Ithil, which is renamed Minas Morgul, tower of Sorcery. The King rides off to battle and is never seen again. And so, the north has a king without a kingdom, and the south has a kingdom without a king.

Meanwhile, Gandalf/Mithrander observes the shadow in Dol Guldor, and infiltrates it to learn what he can. He discovers Sauron lives here, and returns to report to the council. Saruman downplays the problem, claiming that he must be there to search for the Ring, but it has rolled down Anduin into the sea; he will never find it. Saruman suspects that if Sauron is driven out the Ring will hide itself , but if he remains in Dol Guldor, the ring will seek him out, and this will allow Saruman a chance to find it.

The next time, however, Saruman is beginning to think Sauron is getting a little too close to finding the ring, and so cooperates with the council in driving him out of Dol Guldor, back to Mordor.

Meanwhile, the Ring reappears in the Shire, and the events of the Trilogy occurs. It ends with Frodo "casting the ring into Mount Doom" -- which implies that this summary is lacking in detail to a certain extent. It doesn't mention his attempt to keep it, or the loss of his finger to Gollum, or the unending PTSD which resulted from it.

Sauron disappears and it is a happy end for humans -- but not for elves. The power of the Three does indeed fade, and those things preserved by their power fade as well. At the last, the ringbearers set out on the last ships from Middle-Earth, Sam last of all.

And thus ends the tale. A good ending, but a bittersweet one.

Additional: War of the Dwarves and Orcs

Spoiler

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This is mentioned in Appendix A, section 3 of Return of the King.

The dwarves have had a terrible time. Driven from Khazad-dum, they set up a home in exile in Erebor, from which they were driven by Smaug. Poor and desperate, Thror hands his ring on to Thrain and heads into Khazad-dum to try his luck with the aid of one servant, Nar. Thror ignores the remonstrations of his servant and rushes heedless into Moria. It isn't many days later that the orcs deliver back to Nar his head, and tell him to take the head back so the dwarves will know, by the name branded on the head, who is the master here and what fate awaits any who dares return. They also give him a small sack of coins as messenger's fee. He looks in the sack, and on the head he sees branded, as it will be branded on the hearts of all the dwarves, the name AZOG.

The head is duly carried to Thrain, who calls the clans together. Their follows a savage, genocidal war under the mountains which lasts for decades as the dwarves exterminate stronghold after stronghold of orcs, looking for Azog in every den in the mountains.

The last battle is fought before Khazad-dum, and Azog himself comes forth to battle. Thorin fights in this battle, and gains his name Oakenshield when, his original shield broken, he snatches up oaken wood as an improvised replacement. Azog taunts Nain, the king, taunting him : "What? Yet another beggar before my doors? Must I brand you too?"

Nain charges him, but Azog agilely steps aside. Nain's mattock misses and breaks the stone as he stumbles. Azog hews his neck in passing and that is the end of Nain.

Even as he lifts up his head in triumph, he sees that he is pretty much the only orc still standing on the field. He attempts to leave but is caught by Dain, son of Nain, a mere child, but Dain still knows what an axe is for and succeeds in killing Azog. This is his first battle, and when he comes down all can see his face is grey with great fear, which is not to be wondered at in a young boy.

They cut off Azog's head and stuff it with the sack of coins originally given to Nar. "Good!" Thrain says. " We have the victory. Khazad-Dum is ours!"

The other dwarves demur. "Durin's heir you may be, but even with one eye you should see clearer. We fought this war for vengeance, and vengeance we have taken. But it is not sweet. If this is victory, our hands are too small to hold it."

None of the dwarves of other houses want to fight longer, so Thrain turns to Dain and his kinsfolk of Durin, saying "But surely my own kin will not desert me?"

"No", replies Dain. "You are the father of our Folk, and we have bled for you, and we will again. But we will not enter Khazad-Dum. You will not enter Khazad-Dum. Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still; Durin's Bane. The world must change, and some other power than ours must come before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria."

They loot the bodies of their own dead so that scavenging orcs wont gain a supply of weapons and armor. Then they burn the bodies of the dead, and a great burning it is.

Afterwards, Dain and Thorin regard the head of Azog.

Dain: " Some would think this head dearly bought! At least we have given our kingdom for it. Will you come with me back to the anvil? Or will you beg your bread at proud doors? "

Thorin: "To the anvil. The hammer will at least keep the arms strong, until they can wield sharper tools again."

The Dwarves disperse.

Thrain, driven mad by his ring, goes off into the wild to seek his fortune, but the curse of the ring brings him nothing but grief, until at last he winds up on Sauron's dungeons, where his ring is taken from him and he remains until Gandalf discovers him.

Dain heads to the Iron Hills. Thorin and his kin settle in the Blue Mountains, digging coal and forging iron, until they have enough wealth to think of trying for the mountain again. And for this they will need a burglar..

And this ends our story! I hope you enjoyed the readthrough!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[factotum]

I remember specifically about that burning of Dwarf corpses--they don't usually deal with their dead so. Which is why a dwarf whose ancestor died in this battle can proudly say of them "They were a burned dwarf" and the listener will immediately know what they mean.

As for the Rings of Power, we could easily make another thread this big just devoted to them, methinks!

[Grim Portent]

The final allliance consists of every species of creature, intelligent or otherwise, save the elves.

... Wait, does that mean we had some orcs fighting on the side of the good guys? That's certainly what this implies.

I don't think this is meant to be taken literally, but rather as a poetic way of saying that the war drew in many peoples and beasts otherwise unwilling to work together. Taken literally would imply that there were dragons fighting against Sauron during the war after all.


That said, orcs could and would be potential members of the Last Alliance. Tolkien made a point that they were treacherous and disloyal, even during the height of a Dark Lord's power they aren't all going to fall in line, petty lords and great chieftains who don't want to submit to someone else, be they orc, man or maiar. I doubt the other members of the Alliance paid them much regard, nor do I think they would be in great number. Most likely skirmishes and power plays taking place in orc held territory between those loyal to Sauron and the more independantly minded, with some overtures of cooperation being made towards the men and dwarves, rather than orcs and men standing side by side in a shield wall or using mixed unit tactics together.

[Talakeal]

That was a good thread.

Thanks for doing this!

[diplomancer]

I don't think this is meant to be taken literally, but rather as a poetic way of saying that the war drew in many peoples and beasts otherwise unwilling to work together. Taken literally would imply that there were dragons fighting against Sauron during the war after all.


That said, orcs could and would be potential members of the Last Alliance. Tolkien made a point that they were treacherous and disloyal, even during the height of a Dark Lord's power they aren't all going to fall in line, petty lords and great chieftains who don't want to submit to someone else, be they orc, man or maiar. I doubt the other members of the Alliance paid them much regard, nor do I think they would be in great number. Most likely skirmishes and power plays taking place in orc held territory between those loyal to Sauron and the more independantly minded, with some overtures of cooperation being made towards the men and dwarves, rather than orcs and men standing side by side in a shield wall or using mixed unit tactics together.

It's been a few years since I'd read it, but what I always got from it is that all creatures fought in the Last Alliance on Sauron's side, save the Elves. After all, we do know that the Elves fought.

[hamishspence]

It's been a few years since I'd read it, but what I always got from it is that all creatures fought in the Last Alliance on Sauron's side, save the Elves. After all, we do know that the Elves fought.

It's pretty clear that "all creatures, except the elves, fought on both sides"

All living things were divided in that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either host, save the Elves only. They alone were undivided and followed Gil-galad. Of the Dwarves few fought upon either side; but the kindred of Durin of Moria fought against Sauron.

[runeghost]

I'm going to throw in some personal headcanon on the Rings of Power.

We know, via the Histories of Middle Earth, that they were made by Celebrimbor and the Gwaith-i-Mírdain (the guild of Jewelsmiths) with the aid of Annatar (secretly Sauron). When Sauron eventually captured Eregion and Celebrimbor, he seized the Nine and "lesser works" but could not find the Seven until he tortured their location out of Celebrimbor, although Sauron never could get the details of the Three. That's all pretty well documented.

Where my headcanon comes in is that I suspect there were a total of nine members of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain: seven jewelsmiths, Celebrimbor, and Anntar. The Nine would be their first real venture into ring-making - they'd done tests, trials and experiments (the "lesser works"), but the Nine were each of the making their first Ring. And once they'd proved that they could, they all went on to create their masterworks. The seven jewelsmiths made the Seven, Annatar made the One, and Celebrimbor made the Three - one for himself (Vilya), one for Galadriel (Nenya), and one, I suspect, for his good friend Annatar (Narya).


I've also always found it kind of humorous that the way the Elves foiled Sauron's master plan was... they took off their Rings. He's put a century or more, and a good deal of his power into the whole "use Rings to control the Elves" scheme, and it fails (forcing him to go with various fallback plans) because... they took them off.

[diplomancer]

It's pretty clear that "all creatures, except the elves, fought on both sides"

You're right, I was misremembering the text, thanks.

I've also always found it kind of humorous that the way the Elves foiled Sauron's master plan was... they took off their Rings. He's put a century or more, and a good deal of his power into the whole "use Rings to control the Elves" scheme, and it fails (forcing him to go with various fallback plans) because... they took them off.

He did not expect them to be aware of him, though. In any case, considering how he as able to corrupt both Men (including Númenor) and Dwarves (to a lesser extent, but still to his profit), I'd say he got the better of it.

[Noldo]

I've also always found it kind of humorous that the way the Elves foiled Sauron's master plan was... they took off their Rings. He's put a century or more, and a good deal of his power into the whole "use Rings to control the Elves" scheme, and it fails (forcing him to go with various fallback plans) because... they took them off.

This fits very well with TolkienÂ’s view of demise of evil. After all, the One Ring could be smuggled to the Mount Doom because Frodo did not use the ring. The idea of not using the power you have was such an alien thought for Sauron so once the elves were ready to give up the powers of their rings, they were free from SauronÂ’s influence. Only after the One Ring was out of the picture, the elves dared to use the power of their rings (to preserve Rivendell (Elrond), Lothlorien (Galadriel) and Havens (Cirdan who passed the ring to Gandalf)).

[Seppl]

Sauron might also expect that the Elves might not be able to resist the temptation of using that kind of power, even knowing that it is dangerous. That is the way he thinks, and he was often proven correct in this regard. So many bad things in Middle Earth would not have happened if people did not constantly overestimate their ability to handle dangerous powers. Here he just had the bad luck that the Three were in the hands of the three oldest, most conservatively cautious elf lords left in Middle Earth. And even those used the power of the rings extensively after Sauron went missing.

[PontificatusRex]

Here he just had the bad luck that the Three were in the hands of the three oldest, most conservatively cautious elf lords left in Middle Earth. And even those used the power of the rings extensively after Sauron went missing.

Well, I don't know if I'd call it a matter of luck. Except for Celebrimbor himself, pretty much the only powerful elves to survive that long in Middle Earth were the cautious, conservative ones. If they didn't start out that way, history taught them to be so.

[Seppl]

Well, I don't know if I'd call it a matter of luck. Except for Celebrimbor himself, pretty much the only powerful elves to survive that long in Middle Earth were the cautious, conservative ones. If they didn't start out that way, history taught them to be so.

True. Still, cannot blame Sauron for trying. IIRC this is the first time that anyone successfully defied the manipulations of Sauron/Morgoth to the very end. Even the Valar fell for them multiple times.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm going to throw in some personal headcanon on the Rings of Power.

Spoiler: snip a bit

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We know, via the Histories of Middle Earth, that they were made by Celebrimbor and the Gwaith-i-Mírdain (the guild of Jewelsmiths) with the aid of Annatar (secretly Sauron). When Sauron eventually captured Eregion and Celebrimbor, he seized the Nine and "lesser works" but could not find the Seven until he tortured their location out of Celebrimbor, although Sauron never could get the details of the Three. That's all pretty well documented.

Where my headcanon comes in is that I suspect there were a total of nine members of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain: seven jewelsmiths, Celebrimbor, and Anntar. The Nine would be their first real venture into ring-making - they'd done tests, trials and experiments (the "lesser works"), but the Nine were each of the making their first Ring. And once they'd proved that they could, they all went on to create their masterworks. The seven jewelsmiths made the Seven, Annatar made the One, and Celebrimbor made the Three - one for himself (Vilya), one for Galadriel (Nenya), and one, I suspect, for his good friend Annatar (Narya).

I've also always found it kind of humorous that the way the Elves foiled Sauron's master plan was... they took off their Rings. He's put a century or more, and a good deal of his power into the whole "use Rings to control the Elves" scheme, and it fails (forcing him to go with various fallback plans) because... they took them off.

I may borrow some of this.

[Grim Portent]

It's pretty clear that "all creatures, except the elves, fought on both sides"

Often forgotten are the sacrifices made by the brave hamsters of Rhun* in the war against the Dark Lord. Also the fiendish treachery of the ones that sided with Sauron, curse their cheeks.


Tolkien's intent was presumably that men and dwarves were found on Sauron's side, and some orcs on the side of the Alliance, with the various 'non-people' people like the giant eagles, dragons, trolls, wargs, spiders, sentient horses and so forth not being an intended part of the statement.

I would imagine such beings were restricted to one side or the other or absent in their entirety, with mundane animals being largely used as spies or war mounts and beasts of burden through either sorcery or training rather than meaningfully contributing to the fight.




And yeah, the ring plan was honestly not all that great. The One itself, great, wonderful, makes Sauron immensely powerful to the point that almost no one can challenge him personally despite him being a pretty mediocre fighter. The Seven always feel underwhelming, they undermine a few dwarf kingdoms that would have come to wane with time anyway but bring little direct benefit. The Nine are great, the Nazgul are immensely powerful, nigh immortal and some of them presumably brought vassal kingdoms under Sauron's dominion. The Three... well he tried I guess. Ego issues, 'I must dominate all things, even the ones that are hard to dominate rather than going for the safe bets,' if he'd swallowed his pride and given all the lesser rings to men he'd have had a good bit more power.

I do wonder how he recovered some of the rings but not all of them. They're rings after all, if you can carry one you can carry all 19. Presumably the Three were being kept seperately from the others, and their location was easier to reach an escape point from, but you'd think the first thing the elves would do when Sauron comes knocking with an army is gather all the rings together and be ready to destroy them or flee with them on a fast horse or an eagle or something.



*Not sure what exactly Rhun is supposed to be analogous to, but hamsters are found in a big stretch of land along Eastern Europe/West Asia, so they would plausibly be found in both Rhun and Harad, and thus in an all-inclusive interpretation of all creatures, both sides had hamsters as agents in some fashion.