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Thread: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
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2022-06-02, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-06-02, 07:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
And I hear people kinda liked that one. Fancy that.
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2022-06-02, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy
…and their adventures on some sort of space vacation gone awry.
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2022-06-02, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Sort of, but Mando was still mostly fighting the Empire, especially in the episodes people like the most compared to the random bounty hunter stuff in the middle that wasn't as well regarded.
Star Wars returns again and again to 'fight the Empire' for a reason. The visual language of the franchise relies heavily on the Empire. Even during the Old Republic period it uses quasi-imperial knock-offs that deploy that same visual language. Projects without the Empire involved in any way, like Book of Boba Fett, tend to struggle to develop an effective central conflict. Even in TCW the shadow of the empire looms over almost all of its strongest arcs.
Andor appears to be about the founding of the Rebellion, which is more people fighting the Empire. Even though its ground that's been tread before, not least by Rebels, it's still fertile ground for a show. Using Cassian Andor as the title character is not ideal, since it effectively makes the series into a prequel with all the attendant problems of that. It would be better to use a new character, but Diego Luna was apparently available and Cassian Andor's character type - a morally dubious special forces paramilitary - is logical for this sort of show.
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2022-06-03, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Certainly: the degree of profitability of the property. People are watching these shows and movies, and buying the books. Solo made them rethink their plans; they're now focusing on relatively cheaper productions that will return a profit from the people who are guaranteed to consume no matter what.
Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
Good: Will act to prevent harm to others even at personal cost.
Evil: Will seek personal benefit even if it causes harm to others.
Law: General, universal, and consistent trump specific, local, and inconsistent.
Chaos: Specific, local, and inconsistent trump general, universal, and consistent.
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2022-06-03, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-06-03, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
These TV series are, by the standards of TV, actually really, really expensive. That's a big part of the reason why Disney is clinging so hard to established elements. They can't run out dozens of Star Wars pilots and simply adopt the one that succeeds, they basically have to go from concept to full show without any testing.
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2022-06-03, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
So the shows cost enough money that Disney will double down on them, but not enough to motivate them to hire quality talent to write the scripts?
There's got to be a reason the writing is so awful, it's not as though they lack the money to attract people. Is the working environment really terrible? Are top-down influences screwing things up, perhaps because so much money is involved that the executives don't feel they can let the artists do their thing? What's the deal?Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
Good: Will act to prevent harm to others even at personal cost.
Evil: Will seek personal benefit even if it causes harm to others.
Law: General, universal, and consistent trump specific, local, and inconsistent.
Chaos: Specific, local, and inconsistent trump general, universal, and consistent.
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2022-06-03, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Maybe the production schedule is so tight that they don't allow for time to revise drafts. They just take the first somewhat coherent script and go with it, and then they're on to starting the next show. They need most of the time to do the visual effects, which in the case of Star Wars especially, has always been the #1 priority for the franchise.
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2022-06-03, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
By what metric is the writing on the Star Wars live-action TV shows awful? You're talking about 26 episodes of TV: 16 Mando, 7 Boba, 3 (so far) Obi-Wan. Mando is generally well regarded, and the overall writing is certainly above average by the standards of television in the speculative fiction space, and that's the majority all by itself. Boba and, so far, Obi-Wan aren't as good, but I've seen worse, a lot worse. If you think these shows are an example of awful writing, you're judging by some extremely high standards. There's a lot of really, really bad speculative fiction on TV, ex. SyFy made 5 seasons of their Van Helsing series, over twice as many episodes as the Star Wars total so far, and the writing in that show makes Mando look like Shakespeare.
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2022-06-04, 03:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
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2022-06-04, 04:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Consider the simplicity of four lines.
"The Emperor has dissolved the Senate."
"The last remnants of the Old Republic has been swept away."
"Fear will keep the local governments in line."
"Fear of this battle station."
The entire backstory of Episode IV and why the Empire would fund something as big as the Death Star is encapsulated in just four lines.
Who can write like this in Hollywood these days? What in the trailer gave us anything even remotely close to this?
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2022-06-04, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Originally Posted by Saph
From my personal experience in dealing with the film & TV world….
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2022-06-04, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Any reasonable one, really.
Let's make a comparison: Here is a link to a piece of fan fiction about My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Its science is... not wrong, exactly, but it would make any scientifically literate person pause for just a little, if only to wonder about whether things are different in Equestria. But in terms of characterization, suspense, foreshadowing, development of plot, and skill in resolution, I DARE you to find anything from the Disney Star Wars material - shows, movies, whatever - that even approaches it.
Approaches an amateur (in the technical sense) fanfic about magic talking ponies.Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
Good: Will act to prevent harm to others even at personal cost.
Evil: Will seek personal benefit even if it causes harm to others.
Law: General, universal, and consistent trump specific, local, and inconsistent.
Chaos: Specific, local, and inconsistent trump general, universal, and consistent.
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2022-06-04, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
No, because that's not even close to an apples to apples comparison. You might try picking something that's in the same medium, roughly the same genre, and also is responsible to the profit motive. That last one's important because insofar as 'well-written' is in tension with 'makes-money' which the evidence is quite clear is usually the case (Netflix has a whole pile of really well written science fiction shows that all got cancelled in a hurry), that drastically shifts the framing. Also, the piece you linked is only ~5000 words. It's a short story, nothing like the size a 45-minute episode script would need to be.
That you can find unexpected literary gems on the internet may allow you to condemn all modern popular script writing from your own perspective, but that fails to provide any useful data regarding the comparative quality of contemporary TV series.
The Star Wars shows can be compared to their peers much more effectively (though they are admittedly rather short runs compared to long-running network shows). By that metric - here's wikipedia's list of 2020s sci-fi shows Mandalorian is solidly above average and Boba Fett probably a little below average.
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2022-06-04, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
I have to think that at least part of the problem with the Star Wars shows that Disney's been making is that they don't have to be TV shows or movies. The old EU had ample room for stories about everything under the sun, but since they were told in books, comics, video games, etc., nobody was spending such a huge amount of money on each one. There was a whole lot less emphasis on each one, too, since lower barriers for creators meant that there was more Star Wars material generally. They've done some non-video-format stuff (Catalyst and the Aftermath series come to mind), but in general Disney's been leaning pretty heavily on the TV shows to flesh out the world, which means that instead of Cassian's backstory being one of many, they have to convince viewers that he was somehow uniquely tied to the rise of the Rebellion (which may be why the trailer has so little Cassian in it).
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2022-06-04, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-06-04, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
That's all the conversation we'd need to have, then. Except you're clearly wrong - there are quite a few shows that were well-written AND made money, although I admit I can't think of any from the streaming era. That may have more to do with the nature of streaming, or my relative unfamiliarity with streamed shows, than the nature of profitability.
(Netflix has a whole pile of really well written science fiction shows that all got cancelled in a hurry)
Also, the piece you linked is only ~5000 words. It's a short story, nothing like the size a 45-minute episode script would need to be.
That you can find unexpected literary gems on the internet may allow you to condemn all modern popular script writing from your own perspective, but that fails to provide any useful data regarding the comparative quality of contemporary TV series.Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
Good: Will act to prevent harm to others even at personal cost.
Evil: Will seek personal benefit even if it causes harm to others.
Law: General, universal, and consistent trump specific, local, and inconsistent.
Chaos: Specific, local, and inconsistent trump general, universal, and consistent.
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2022-06-05, 05:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Mando has generally higher production values than most of the others, though, granted that TV writing is notoriously cutthroat, so can we expect something better than, say, a CW show?
Effects and performances are pretty solid all round, but there are a lot of basic and avoidable writing issues, like how they flip on a dime from 'this bleepy thing can find Baby Yoda' to 'characters cannot find Baby Yoda' with no explanation whatsoever.
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2022-06-05, 07:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Lost Stars, Catalyst, Thrawn, Rebel Rising, A New Dawn, Heir to the Jedi, Bloodline.... Plus Rogue One was pretty good and The Mandalorian was great.
C'mon man. You're acting like Disney churns out nothing but crap when Star Wars has always followed Sturgeon's Law pretty closely. And I'm fairly sure it's because the Sequel Trilogy was one of the highest profile dumpster fires Hollywood has ever put out. Let's not go pretending that the Prequel Trilogy or The Clone Wars made much sense to say nothing of most of the novels put out under Lucasfilm.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-06-06, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
Good: Will act to prevent harm to others even at personal cost.
Evil: Will seek personal benefit even if it causes harm to others.
Law: General, universal, and consistent trump specific, local, and inconsistent.
Chaos: Specific, local, and inconsistent trump general, universal, and consistent.
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2022-06-26, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2022
Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
I've yet to see a modern Star Wars that I shut off. Unlike the Holiday Special, that Ewok Movie (Caravan of courage I think? It was bad) And those cartoons. Not to mention all those... Interesting books like Luke's evil twin named Luuke or when he falls in love with a ghost possessing a spaceship.
The series has had it's very high ups and it's very low downs since the beginning, its not unique to Disney. Do what I do!
Just pick what you like and toss the rest to the garbage.
As for Andor, I'm interested being a big Rogue One fan, but at the same I'm burnt out on the Rebellion Era. Honestly it's a big "But why"Last edited by Osopeluche; 2022-06-26 at 09:02 PM.
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2022-08-01, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
New trailer:
Looks fantastic, but Disney+ has a habit of making great trailers for shows that wobble and spin out.
Still, it does look fantastic, and there will probably be those who are pleased to see Saw Guerrera in there. At the least we can hope for a good ride.
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2022-08-01, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
That looks... pretty good? I'm oddly surprised.
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2022-08-01, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Definitely looking better than expected.
We will watch its career with great interest.
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2022-08-01, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
I see that we've reached the "buying into the hype" part of the cycle.
I'll believe they can make something good when they actually do it. Outside of the first 3 episodes of the Mandalorian they have yet to do so, and even that series went to crap.
To me the trailer is just overly loud dramatic music, and a bunch of catchphrases that don't actually mean anything at all.Last edited by Anteros; 2022-08-01 at 09:45 AM.
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2022-08-01, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Last edited by Peelee; 2022-08-01 at 09:57 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-08-01, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2022-08-02, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Meh. Still no K2SO, so I still have no hype. If and when they confirm Alan Tudyk reprising his role, then I'll start to care about this.
I did spot Maz Kanata in there toward the end though, which is... a thing that happened, I guess.
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2022-08-02, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer
Originally Posted by Velaryon
I did spot Maz Kanata in there toward the end though….
Also, I'm very happy for this to be K2SO-free.