Star Wars: Andor - First Trailer

[Fyraltari]

If they're gonna make a TV show about Some Random Guy, maybe it should actually be about some random guy on some other planet, doing Star Wars stuff, instead of a dead guy who I can't even remember what he did besides get killed before the interesting story starts. I'd totally watch a series about Magunki Schwumbpo from Planet Harble and his cool new Jedi friend J'emissia Flerntis and their adventures on some sort of space vacation gone awry. Maybe Disney should think about that.

I believe that's called season 1 of The Mandalorian.

[Rynjin]

And I hear people kinda liked that one. Fancy that.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy
…and their adventures on some sort of space vacation gone awry.

Maybe on the Galactic Starcruiser?

[Mechalich]

I believe that's called season 1 of The Mandalorian.

Sort of, but Mando was still mostly fighting the Empire, especially in the episodes people like the most compared to the random bounty hunter stuff in the middle that wasn't as well regarded.

Star Wars returns again and again to 'fight the Empire' for a reason. The visual language of the franchise relies heavily on the Empire. Even during the Old Republic period it uses quasi-imperial knock-offs that deploy that same visual language. Projects without the Empire involved in any way, like Book of Boba Fett, tend to struggle to develop an effective central conflict. Even in TCW the shadow of the empire looms over almost all of its strongest arcs.

Andor appears to be about the founding of the Rebellion, which is more people fighting the Empire. Even though its ground that's been tread before, not least by Rebels, it's still fertile ground for a show. Using Cassian Andor as the title character is not ideal, since it effectively makes the series into a prequel with all the attendant problems of that. It would be better to use a new character, but Diego Luna was apparently available and Cassian Andor's character type - a morally dubious special forces paramilitary - is logical for this sort of show.

[Caledonian]

Like I get that the big meme about Star Wars fans is that they'll lap up any trash put in front of them, loudly complain about it, and then ask for more, but surely there's got to be some limit to that, right?

Certainly: the degree of profitability of the property. People are watching these shows and movies, and buying the books. Solo made them rethink their plans; they're now focusing on relatively cheaper productions that will return a profit from the people who are guaranteed to consume no matter what.

[BloodSquirrel]

'Why should I care' is an odd question. If you don't you don't, you can't really persuade someone to care. If you don't, fine. If you do, fine. Why should anyone care about anything? Why should anyone not care about anything?

Minor characters get expanded all the time, and some work, some don't, there's nothing inherently wrong with the approach.

Making you care about these things is literally the entire point of a trailer. It's why marketing exists at all.

[Mechalich]

Certainly: the degree of profitability of the property. People are watching these shows and movies, and buying the books. Solo made them rethink their plans; they're now focusing on relatively cheaper productions that will return a profit from the people who are guaranteed to consume no matter what.

These TV series are, by the standards of TV, actually really, really expensive. That's a big part of the reason why Disney is clinging so hard to established elements. They can't run out dozens of Star Wars pilots and simply adopt the one that succeeds, they basically have to go from concept to full show without any testing.

[Caledonian]

So the shows cost enough money that Disney will double down on them, but not enough to motivate them to hire quality talent to write the scripts?

There's got to be a reason the writing is so awful, it's not as though they lack the money to attract people. Is the working environment really terrible? Are top-down influences screwing things up, perhaps because so much money is involved that the executives don't feel they can let the artists do their thing? What's the deal?

[Thrudd]

So the shows cost enough money that Disney will double down on them, but not enough to motivate them to hire quality talent to write the scripts?

There's got to be a reason the writing is so awful, it's not as though they lack the money to attract people. Is the working environment really terrible? Are top-down influences screwing things up, perhaps because so much money is involved that the executives don't feel they can let the artists do their thing? What's the deal?

Maybe the production schedule is so tight that they don't allow for time to revise drafts. They just take the first somewhat coherent script and go with it, and then they're on to starting the next show. They need most of the time to do the visual effects, which in the case of Star Wars especially, has always been the #1 priority for the franchise.

[Mechalich]

So the shows cost enough money that Disney will double down on them, but not enough to motivate them to hire quality talent to write the scripts?

There's got to be a reason the writing is so awful, it's not as though they lack the money to attract people. Is the working environment really terrible? Are top-down influences screwing things up, perhaps because so much money is involved that the executives don't feel they can let the artists do their thing? What's the deal?

By what metric is the writing on the Star Wars live-action TV shows awful? You're talking about 26 episodes of TV: 16 Mando, 7 Boba, 3 (so far) Obi-Wan. Mando is generally well regarded, and the overall writing is certainly above average by the standards of television in the speculative fiction space, and that's the majority all by itself. Boba and, so far, Obi-Wan aren't as good, but I've seen worse, a lot worse. If you think these shows are an example of awful writing, you're judging by some extremely high standards. There's a lot of really, really bad speculative fiction on TV, ex. SyFy made 5 seasons of their Van Helsing series, over twice as many episodes as the Star Wars total so far, and the writing in that show makes Mando look like Shakespeare.

[Saph]

So the shows cost enough money that Disney will double down on them, but not enough to motivate them to hire quality talent to write the scripts?

There's got to be a reason the writing is so awful, it's not as though they lack the money to attract people. Is the working environment really terrible? Are top-down influences screwing things up, perhaps because so much money is involved that the executives don't feel they can let the artists do their thing? What's the deal?

From my personal experience in dealing with the film & TV world, most scriptwriters these days aren't actually very good at writing stories. They tend to be well-connected conformists.

[TemporalTravels]

Consider the simplicity of four lines.

"The Emperor has dissolved the Senate."
"The last remnants of the Old Republic has been swept away."
"Fear will keep the local governments in line."
"Fear of this battle station."

The entire backstory of Episode IV and why the Empire would fund something as big as the Death Star is encapsulated in just four lines.

Who can write like this in Hollywood these days? What in the trailer gave us anything even remotely close to this?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Saph
From my personal experience in dealing with the film & TV world….

Very interesting; can you elaborate on this? Have you done any writing in that sphere yourself? Are your books being adapted?

[Caledonian]

By what metric is the writing on the Star Wars live-action TV shows awful?

Any reasonable one, really.

Let's make a comparison: Here is a link to a piece of fan fiction about My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Its science is... not wrong, exactly, but it would make any scientifically literate person pause for just a little, if only to wonder about whether things are different in Equestria. But in terms of characterization, suspense, foreshadowing, development of plot, and skill in resolution, I DARE you to find anything from the Disney Star Wars material - shows, movies, whatever - that even approaches it.

Approaches an amateur (in the technical sense) fanfic about magic talking ponies.

[Mechalich]

Any reasonable one, really.

Let's make a comparison: Here is a link to a piece of fan fiction about My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Its science is... not wrong, exactly, but it would make any scientifically literate person pause for just a little, if only to wonder about whether things are different in Equestria. But in terms of characterization, suspense, foreshadowing, development of plot, and skill in resolution, I DARE you to find anything from the Disney Star Wars material - shows, movies, whatever - that even approaches it.

Approaches an amateur (in the technical sense) fanfic about magic talking ponies.

No, because that's not even close to an apples to apples comparison. You might try picking something that's in the same medium, roughly the same genre, and also is responsible to the profit motive. That last one's important because insofar as 'well-written' is in tension with 'makes-money' which the evidence is quite clear is usually the case (Netflix has a whole pile of really well written science fiction shows that all got cancelled in a hurry), that drastically shifts the framing. Also, the piece you linked is only ~5000 words. It's a short story, nothing like the size a 45-minute episode script would need to be.

That you can find unexpected literary gems on the internet may allow you to condemn all modern popular script writing from your own perspective, but that fails to provide any useful data regarding the comparative quality of contemporary TV series.

The Star Wars shows can be compared to their peers much more effectively (though they are admittedly rather short runs compared to long-running network shows). By that metric - here's wikipedia's list of 2020s sci-fi shows Mandalorian is solidly above average and Boba Fett probably a little below average.

[Aedes]

I have to think that at least part of the problem with the Star Wars shows that Disney's been making is that they don't have to be TV shows or movies. The old EU had ample room for stories about everything under the sun, but since they were told in books, comics, video games, etc., nobody was spending such a huge amount of money on each one. There was a whole lot less emphasis on each one, too, since lower barriers for creators meant that there was more Star Wars material generally. They've done some non-video-format stuff (Catalyst and the Aftermath series come to mind), but in general Disney's been leaning pretty heavily on the TV shows to flesh out the world, which means that instead of Cassian's backstory being one of many, they have to convince viewers that he was somehow uniquely tied to the rise of the Rebellion (which may be why the trailer has so little Cassian in it).

[Thrudd]

That last one's important because insofar as 'well-written' is in tension with 'makes-money' which the evidence is quite clear is usually the case (Netflix has a whole pile of really well written science fiction shows that all got cancelled in a hurry), that drastically shifts the framing.

too true...case in point- Raised by Wolves on HBO Max just got cancelled after 2 seasons. I really wanted to see where that was going. Now we have to hope somebody else grabs it, as happened with The Expanse.

[Caledonian]

That last one's important because insofar as 'well-written' is in tension with 'makes-money'

That's all the conversation we'd need to have, then. Except you're clearly wrong - there are quite a few shows that were well-written AND made money, although I admit I can't think of any from the streaming era. That may have more to do with the nature of streaming, or my relative unfamiliarity with streamed shows, than the nature of profitability.

(Netflix has a whole pile of really well written science fiction shows that all got cancelled in a hurry)

So did FOX. Because it only wanted massive successes like X-Files, and kept scrapping good shows that weren't immediate viral explosions in favor of rolling the dice again. Disney seems to be trying a different strategy: making quick cheap crap that people will still acquire and keep subscriptions for.

Also, the piece you linked is only ~5000 words. It's a short story, nothing like the size a 45-minute episode script would need to be.

Irrelevant - Disney is telling stories badly, and Horse Voice told that story well. The exact events in her story, if turned into a script, would easily fill a television episode, not least because events that are very brief in text take up considerably more time in video.

That you can find unexpected literary gems on the internet may allow you to condemn all modern popular script writing from your own perspective, but that fails to provide any useful data regarding the comparative quality of contemporary TV series.

There's that 'comparative' again. Disney SW stories are awful in the absolute sense, not relative to the other junk out there. Although they're incompetently made in comparison to most other TV and movie material. The movies in particular made healthy profits and were utterly awful. The problem seems to be that once people liked the franchise because they enjoyed the movies, and now they suffer through awful movies because they're invested in the franchise.

[Sapphire Guard]

Mando has generally higher production values than most of the others, though, granted that TV writing is notoriously cutthroat, so can we expect something better than, say, a CW show?

Effects and performances are pretty solid all round, but there are a lot of basic and avoidable writing issues, like how they flip on a dime from 'this bleepy thing can find Baby Yoda' to 'characters cannot find Baby Yoda' with no explanation whatsoever.

[Peelee]

Any reasonable one, really.

Let's make a comparison: Here is a link to a piece of fan fiction about My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Its science is... not wrong, exactly, but it would make any scientifically literate person pause for just a little, if only to wonder about whether things are different in Equestria. But in terms of characterization, suspense, foreshadowing, development of plot, and skill in resolution, I DARE you to find anything from the Disney Star Wars material - shows, movies, whatever - that even approaches it.

Approaches an amateur (in the technical sense) fanfic about magic talking ponies.

Lost Stars, Catalyst, Thrawn, Rebel Rising, A New Dawn, Heir to the Jedi, Bloodline.... Plus Rogue One was pretty good and The Mandalorian was great.

C'mon man. You're acting like Disney churns out nothing but crap when Star Wars has always followed Sturgeon's Law pretty closely. And I'm fairly sure it's because the Sequel Trilogy was one of the highest profile dumpster fires Hollywood has ever put out. Let's not go pretending that the Prequel Trilogy or The Clone Wars made much sense to say nothing of most of the novels put out under Lucasfilm.

[Caledonian]

Let's not go pretending that the Prequel Trilogy or The Clone Wars made much sense to say nothing of most of the novels put out under Lucasfilm.

My problems with Star Wars go far beyond Disney. That doesn't excuse DSW being bad. Especially when there are so many fundamental problems, instead of esoteric fine points of artistic expression. Sloppy plot holes have no excuse!

[Osopeluche]

Lost Stars, Catalyst, Thrawn, Rebel Rising, A New Dawn, Heir to the Jedi, Bloodline.... Plus Rogue One was pretty good and The Mandalorian was great.

C'mon man. You're acting like Disney churns out nothing but crap when Star Wars has always followed Sturgeon's Law pretty closely. And I'm fairly sure it's because the Sequel Trilogy was one of the highest profile dumpster fires Hollywood has ever put out. Let's not go pretending that the Prequel Trilogy or The Clone Wars made much sense to say nothing of most of the novels put out under Lucasfilm.

I've yet to see a modern Star Wars that I shut off. Unlike the Holiday Special, that Ewok Movie (Caravan of courage I think? It was bad) And those cartoons. Not to mention all those... Interesting books like Luke's evil twin named Luuke or when he falls in love with a ghost possessing a spaceship.
The series has had it's very high ups and it's very low downs since the beginning, its not unique to Disney. Do what I do!
Just pick what you like and toss the rest to the garbage.

As for Andor, I'm interested being a big Rogue One fan, but at the same I'm burnt out on the Rebellion Era. Honestly it's a big "But why"

[Palanan]

New trailer:





Looks fantastic, but Disney+ has a habit of making great trailers for shows that wobble and spin out.

Still, it does look fantastic, and there will probably be those who are pleased to see Saw Guerrera in there. At the least we can hope for a good ride.

[Sapphire Guard]

That looks... pretty good? I'm oddly surprised.

[Palanan]

Definitely looking better than expected.

We will watch its career with great interest.

[Anteros]

I see that we've reached the "buying into the hype" part of the cycle.

I'll believe they can make something good when they actually do it. Outside of the first 3 episodes of the Mandalorian they have yet to do so, and even that series went to crap.

To me the trailer is just overly loud dramatic music, and a bunch of catchphrases that don't actually mean anything at all.

[Peelee]

That looks amazing. And I am infinitely more excited for stuff like this than stuff like Kenobi.

I see that we've reached the "buying into the hype" part of the cycle.

I'll believe they can make something good when they actually do it. Outside of the first 3 episodes of the Mandalorian they have yet to do so, and even that series went to crap.

To me the trailer is just overly loud dramatic music, and a bunch of catchphrases that don't actually mean anything at all.

Eh, to each their own.

[Fyraltari]

New trailer:





Looks fantastic, but Disney+ has a habit of making great trailers for shows that wobble and spin out.

Still, it does look fantastic, and there will probably be those who are pleased to see Saw Guerrera in there. At the least we can hope for a good ride.

Spoiler

Show

[Velaryon]

Meh. Still no K2SO, so I still have no hype. If and when they confirm Alan Tudyk reprising his role, then I'll start to care about this.

I did spot Maz Kanata in there toward the end though, which is... a thing that happened, I guess.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Velaryon
I did spot Maz Kanata in there toward the end though….

Pretty sure that’s a very different character from Maz, since the one in this trailer has four arms and decidedly not-orange skin.

Also, I'm very happy for this to be K2SO-free.