When Belkar dies, what will become of his soul?

[paladinofshojo]

Going by D&D cosmology since he is chaotic evil does that mean he is going to turn into a lemure and end up in the Abyss?

Fighting his way in the blood war through the eons into maybe one day elevating into a stronger demon like a Balor or maybe even some sort of demon prince?

Anyone else wondering what will become of the Belkster after he kicks the bucket?

[brian 333]

I think he's going to be unmade by The Snarl, and therefore his soul will be unmade too. Belkar will cease to exist and have no afterlife at just the point in his character development where he might have gotten that dream-afterlife he had in Girard's Pyramid.

[hamishspence]

Going by D&D cosmology since he is chaotic evil does that mean he is going to turn into a lemure and end up in the Abyss?

Fighting his way in the blood war through the eons into maybe one day elevating into a stronger demon like a Balor or maybe even some sort of demon prince?

Anyone else wondering what will become of the Belkster after he kicks the bucket?

Maybe, if he ends up "CE with CN tendencies" he'd go to Pandemonium instead of the Abyss, but that might be a long shot.

[enq]

Anyone else wondering what will become of the Belkster after he kicks the bucket?

I am envisioning Belkar's final moment as one where he activates his cloak clasp, but it doesn't hurt him.

In other words, he'd be no longer evil.

Don't know what that means for his afterlife though.

[hroþila]

I am envisioning Belkar's final moment as one where he activates his cloak clasp, but it doesn't hurt him.

In other words, he'd be no longer evil.

Don't know what that means for his afterlife though.

Maybe his clasp will be activated, and it won't hurt him, and Elan will point it out like "Look! He wasn't Evil in the end! What an amazing redemption story!", and someone will point out he was already dead so of course the clasp wouldn't hurt him, and then we'll see Belkar in whatever CE afterlife he ends up in.

[mjasghar]

I think he's going to be unmade by The Snarl, and therefore his soul will be unmade too. Belkar will cease to exist and have no afterlife at just the point in his character development where he might have gotten that dream-afterlife he had in Girard's Pyramid.

Assuming the Snarl does unmake souls
It could be that it simply holds then in a place unreachable by divine or arcane magic or psionics.

[Emanick]

Maybe, if he ends up "CE with CN tendencies" he'd go to Pandemonium instead of the Abyss, but that might be a long shot.

I think this is probably one of the most likely possibilities, neck-and-neck with the “killed by The Snarl” theory.

[Metastachydium]

Going by D&D cosmology since he is chaotic evil does that mean he is going to turn into a lemure and end up in the Abyss?

Lemures are devils, and if they end up in the Abyss, the demons are likely not doing all that well.

Maybe, if he ends up "CE with CN tendencies" he'd go to Pandemonium instead of the Abyss, but that might be a long shot.

Maybe his clasp will be activated, and it won't hurt him, and Elan will point it out like "Look! He wasn't Evil in the end! What an amazing redemption story!", and someone will point out he was already dead so of course the clasp wouldn't hurt him, and then we'll see Belkar in whatever CE afterlife he ends up in.

Maybe the demons will be so disgusted of his commitment to some goody-two-shoes losers that they'll refuse to let him in, at which point he'll throw a tantrum and attack them, prompting the fiends to go all "Seriously? What are you, a <fornicatin'> paladin?" and slam the door in his face. Pandemonium sounds more likely, though.

[KorvinStarmast]

Fighting his way in the blood war through the eons into maybe one day elevating into -

The Sexy Shoeless God of War.

Don't know what that means for his afterlife though.

I'll vote for the Mr Scruffy version

[Ionathus]

Hmm, I feel like the obvious play is that he's unmade by the Snarl, because if he isn't unresurrectable then why wouldn't his teammates bring him back? Especially if he's completed his redemption arc by then and become obviously valuable to everyone on the team?

So because that feels obvious, I'm going to bet against it. Not that obvious things are inherently bad, just that I think there'll be a bit more nuance to it.

Hell, maybe he full-asses it and winds up in the CG afterlife and doesn't want to leave?

[Liquor Box]

Hopefully he gets something good. Either a non-evil afterlife or him establishing himself in a position of power in hell and enjoying himself.

[Precure]

If he's somehow end up in a not evil afterlife, I want him to made amends with Miko.

[Liquor Box]

If he's somehow end up in a not evil afterlife, I want him to made amends with Miko.

Why, he has several much more innocent victims. What afterlife do we think she's in?

[Precure]

Why, he has several much more innocent victims.

Not much emotional impact with some random guy.

What afterlife do we think she's in?

If someone like Belkar can be redeemed into someone not evil within few weeks, nothing is impossible. Maybe Miko would visit TN afterlife Belkar sent as part of her community service.

[Peelee]

Hopefully he gets something good. Either a non-evil afterlife or him establishing himself in a position of power in hell and enjoying himself.

1.) Enjoying oneself in the Nine Hells (which he would not go to, the Abyss would be more likely) is a very poor way to demonstrate that Evil is something people should avoid, which I think is at least a minor theme of the story.
2.) A non-evil afterlife is not the same as "something good". For example, Limbo, whole significantly better than the Windswept Depths of Pandemonium (where all souls are driven mad by the never-ending, driving winds through the infinite tunnels), is not a place Belkar would particularly enjoy.

[Liquor Box]

1.) Enjoying oneself in the Nine Hells (which he would not go to, the Abyss would be more likely) is a very poor way to demonstrate that Evil is something people should avoid, which I think is at least a minor theme of the story.
2.) A non-evil afterlife is not the same as "something good". For example, Limbo, whole significantly better than the Windswept Depths of Pandemonium (where all souls are driven mad by the never-ending, driving winds through the infinite tunnels), is not a place Belkar would particularly enjoy.

Yeah, a position of power in Hell (or the Abyss, or whatever he gets into) would be better than a boring ending in a moderately bad afterlife where he was just another soul.

[Peelee]

Yeah, a position of power in Hell (or the Abyss, or whatever he gets into) would be better than a boring ending in a moderately bad afterlife where he was just another soul.

Imean, he'd be just another soul in the Abyss as well.

[Liquor Box]

Imean, he'd be just another soul in the Abyss as well.

Do the demons or devils not have souls? Is there no heirachy there were a powerful dead evildoer could work themselves into a position of power?

[Peelee]

Do the demons or devils not have souls?

No. Outsiders are different, and mortal souls are kind of used like money there. Money that is also tortured.

Think of it like the D&D version of the prison cigarettes trope.

Is there no heirachy there were a powerful dead evildoer could work themselves into a position of power?

Even Xykon, a much more powerful, much more evil, and funnily enough, much more dead character is scared ****less of the big fire down below and will do anything to avoid it. Belkar is just another soul.

[Liquor Box]

No. Outsiders are different, and mortal souls are kind of used like money there. Money that is also tortured.

Think of it like the D&D version of the prison cigarettes trope.

Even Xykon, a much more powerful, much more evil, and funnily enough, much more dead character is scared ****less of the big fire down below and will do anything to avoid it. Belkar is just another soul.

Oh well, I'm sure they'll find some way to give Belkar something good in the end. I think he's the best character (and I think when we did a vote on here he would one of, if not the, most popular too).

[KorvinStarmast]

If he's somehow end up in a not evil afterlife, I want him to made amends with Miko.

Why not go for the full gonzo absurd afterlife, where Miko discovers that she enjoys the undivided, amorous attentions of the Sexy Shoeless God of War with vigor and enthusiasm, such that Rich does a fade to black after the first panel to keep the PG rating going. (Yeah, not likely, but this strip did start as one filled with jokes).

[Charity322]

If you worship an evil god do you still go to 'hell' or do the evil gods have domains that you're sent to?

[4sigma]

Hopefully he gets something good. Either a non-evil afterlife or him establishing himself in a position of power in hell and enjoying himself.

1.) Enjoying oneself in the Nine Hells (which he would not go to, the Abyss would be more likely) is a very poor way to demonstrate that Evil is something people should avoid, which I think is at least a minor theme of the story.
2.) A non-evil afterlife is not the same as "something good". For example, Limbo, whole significantly better than the Windswept Depths of Pandemonium (where all souls are driven mad by the never-ending, driving winds through the infinite tunnels), is not a place Belkar would particularly enjoy.

As I understand the cosmology, residents of the Nine Hells -- even those fairly high up the hierarchy -- are not happy. Everyone in the Nine Hells is miserable, even the Archdevils who are each ruled by those above them and ultimately by Asmodeus who plays them against each other and demotes those who fall out of his favor. Yes, it's an even more miserable place for those of good alignment. But nobody truly enjoys it there.

But I agree Belkar's destiny is unlikely to lie there. Peelee as you've noted, the Abyss would be traditional for those who are CE. And Belkar is presumably headed for some sort of redemption and an ending better than joining the ranks of dretches or manes, the least of the demons in the abyss.

[Fyraltari]

At this point I think when Belkar dies, unless his soul is explicitly unmade, we simply won't see his afterlife.

Hmm, I feel like the obvious play is that he's unmade by the Snarl, because if he isn't unresurrectable then why wouldn't his teammates bring him back?

Why would they? He's a loose canon at best and they don't particularly like him. In Roy, Elan and Haley's dream happy-end he stayed dead despite Durkon being around to rezz him. Roy's current plan is to wait for Belkar to die and wring as much use out him as he can before that. I don't think he's even told him about his Fate yet.

Also the idea that a soul who end up in a an evil afterlife could become king over there and enjoy themself sounds like the mother of all pyramid schemes. Belkar isn't even that good of a fighter. He's a bully who is good a taking down multiple weak opponents but consistently fare badly against single powerful opponents. He wouldn't get that far.


Also the notion that Belkar deserves a good end because he's a popular character... That doesn't really compute. Darth Sidious, Javert, Walter White, Elric of Melniboné, they're all pretty popular characters from well-regarded works and their respective ends are not enviable.

If you worship an evil god do you still go to 'hell' or do the evil gods have domains that you're sent to?

Yes.
The evil gods have domains you are sent to. These are usually located in "hell", so it might not be much better for you.

[hungrycrow]

Why would they? He's a loose canon at best and they don't particularly like him. In Roy, Elan and Haley's dream happy-end he stayed dead despite Durkon being around to rezz him. Roy's current plan is to wait for Belkar to die and wring as much use out him as he can before that. I don't think he's even told him about his Fate yet.

I think that was partly because Roy was upset with Belkar at the time and the illusion responded to that. Real Durkon and Elan would be more willing to help out Belkar.

Other than that I agree with you though.

[Metastachydium]

In Roy, Elan and Haley's dream happy-end he stayed dead despite Durkon being around to rezz him.

I think that was partly because Roy was upset with Belkar at the time and the illusion responded to that. Real Durkon and Elan would be more willing to help out Belkar.

But real Elan was very much present and looked devastated, while (imaginary) Durkon, known to be "a sucker [who] healed [Belkar] up for free" after he murdered someone from fun and definitively turned a paladin against him and the rest of the Order was standing by, also clearly saddened, and yet, (imaginary) Belkar got a statue rather than a Raise Dead cast on him.

[Charity322]

But real Elan was very much present and looked devastated, while (imaginary) Durkon, known to be "a sucker [who] healed [Belkar] up for free" after he murdered someone from fun and definitively turned a paladin against him and the rest of the Order was standing by, also clearly saddened, and yet, (imaginary) Belkar got a statue rather than a Raise Dead cast on him.

Well Belkar himself got a separate 'happy ending'. The embarrassing thing may be that the others' 'happy ending' did not include Belkar and that's why he stayed dead.

[Peelee]

Real Durkon and Elan would be more willing to help out Belkar.

Why?

Like, Belkar is objectively dangerous. They can help him be a better person, sure. But why would they bring him back to life after he died?

[Mic_128]

They can help him be a better person, sure. But why would they bring him back to life after he died?

Because they made him become a better person.


Another thought from someone who doesn't know how the cosmology works, but is it possible his death could be tied to foiling the IFC?

[brian 333]

I agree with Peelee.

There is no good reason to bring back Belkar if they have accomplished their goal, but I can think of several reasons, even if he has been redeemed at the time of his death, to not do so:
1) he might backslide and resume murdering for fun and profit.
2) retirement would bore Bellar to years and he might start murdering out of frustration.
3) he would likely fall into the company of bad companions who seek to use him for their goals, and he'd murder them.

Okay, I can only think of one reason.