When Belkar dies, what will become of his soul?

[Elanfanforlife]

I agree. I think the Giant likes to prompt these sort of discussions, so seeds them in his comic all the time. Like when Durkon ranked Belkar the party member he'd third most like to marry - prompting discussion of his order of preference.

Didn't he say Belkar was his fourth choice? Excluding Durkon himself, that puts two people below Belkar (One if you don't count Minrah, who was still in the afterlife at the time).

[Charity322]

Didn't he say Belkar was his fourth choice? Excluding Durkon himself, that puts two people below Belkar (One if you don't count Minrah, who was still in the afterlife at the time).

He did and excluding Durkon that puts one person below him. Guess I don't really count Minrah as a permanent party member.

[Metastachydium]

Guess I don't really count Minrah as a permanent party member.

Well, nor does the Giant (see no. 4 here), so you might be on the right track.

[brian 333]

If Belkar is a sexy god of war, then I'm the queen of england.

England has lots of queens, but there is only one Freddy Mercury.

To this day I have not seen or heard anyone else play Don't Stop Me Now straight through in one take. If you can do that I'll gladly call you Your Majesty.

[Ruck]

Just to reiterate, the Oracle didn't make a bunch of prophecies about Belkar dying that could be interpreted in a different way. He taunted Belkar about his upcoming death with a few statements, offhandedly mentioned to Roy that Belkar was not long for this world, then gave Roy the official prophecy. The taunting in particular just doesn't make sense unless the Oracle knows Belkar is going to die.

Looking back, all of the prophecies have been straightforward and truthful.

Yeah, I've tried to make this point, too. Ambiguously worded is one thing-- that's often how prophecies and oracles work-- but none of them have been untrue.

(Only one of them was even metaphorical, Haley's, and that one gave her the answer she needed in order to act on it. Maybe related, since I think about this sometimes, she was also the only one to ask a "What can I do..." question, which gave her an answer of something she could do. The others were "How will this happen..." with Durkon and V, yes/no questions with Elan and Belkar, and then Roy's overly specific question. Durkon and V's answers were ambiguous, but they also asked questions with a number of legitimate correct answers.)

[Peelee]

England has lots of queens, but there is only one Freddy Mercury.

To this day I have not seen or heard anyone else play Don't Stop Me Now straight through in one take. If you can do that I'll gladly call you Your Majesty.

You're not talking about the Queen of England. You're talking about the King of Queen.

[KorvinStarmast]

If Belkar is a sexy god of war, then I'm the queen of england.

He's a Sexy Shoeless God of War. That's based on these two comic strips:
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0610.html

Spoiler: SSGoW assessment

Show

It is quite possible that there is some hyperbole involved in that (self) assessment

[Dame_Mechanus]

Yeah, I've tried to make this point, too. Ambiguously worded is one thing-- that's often how prophecies and oracles work-- but none of them have been untrue.

Everyone likes to be clever enough to predict the twists before they arrive, to figure things out ahead of time, and so forth. There's nothing wrong with that. However, sometimes that involves people being so intent on proving themselves very clever operators who can out-think a twist that they wind up out-thinking something that is not actually a puzzle to be figured out.

[brian 333]

You're not talking about the Queen of England. You're talking about the King of Queen.

I thought that was a guy who drove a delivery truck.

What do I know, I don't watch TV.

[Ruck]

Everyone likes to be clever enough to predict the twists before they arrive, to figure things out ahead of time, and so forth. There's nothing wrong with that. However, sometimes that involves people being so intent on proving themselves very clever operators who can out-think a twist that they wind up out-thinking something that is not actually a puzzle to be figured out.

Many of the previous arguments made that Belkar wouldn't actually die usually started with some variation of "Now, we all know the Oracle's prophecies have some kind of twist or misinformation..." which is not actually true.

[Liquor Box]

Didn't he say Belkar was his fourth choice? Excluding Durkon himself, that puts two people below Belkar (One if you don't count Minrah, who was still in the afterlife at the time).

Oh possibly. I might have got the details wrong. My point was that I think the Giant puts things like that in the story to incite discussion on the forums. So to invite discussion of who ranked below Belkar in Durkon's marry order.

[littlebum2002]

England has lots of queens, but there is only one Freddy Mercury.

To this day I have not seen or heard anyone else play Don't Stop Me Now straight through in one take. If you can do that I'll gladly call you Your Majesty.

I play it all the way through every time it comes up on my playlist

[Charity322]

Why would you not play it through?

[Peelee]

Why would you not play it through?

Seconded. It's Queen's best song.

[brian 333]

I play it all the way through every time it comes up on my playlist

I meant perform it on the piano. It is one helaciously fast song and a miskey really stands out. I, of course, can listen to it as fast as Queen can perform it.

[Dame_Mechanus]

Oh possibly. I might have got the details wrong. My point was that I think the Giant puts things like that in the story to incite discussion on the forums. So to invite discussion of who ranked below Belkar in Durkon's marry order.

I'm absolutely sure that he does, what author wouldn't? But not everything is a vague puzzle to be figured out for amusement. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes "Belkar is going to die" is just "Belkar is going to die."

Technically, all of the Order is going to die. Belkar's just going to do it presumably before 80% of his traveling companions.

[Fyraltari]

Technically, all of the Order is going to die. Belkar's just going to do it presumably before 80% of his traveling companions.

Belkar's travelling companions: Roy, Haley, Elan, Vaarsuvius, Minrah, Durkon.

Which one do you figure is going to predecease the little bugger?

[dancrilis]

Belkar's travelling companions: Roy, Haley, Elan, Vaarsuvius, Minrah.

Which one do you figure is going to predecease the little bugger?

You missed Durkon who died twice before him, also Roy died once before him and if we count Minrah she also died once before him already.

[Fyraltari]

You missed Durkon

Right fixed.

Wait, 20% of six doesn't make a full number. So, assuming only the full members of the ORder count, who did Dame_Mechanus mean?

[Dame_Mechanus]

Right fixed.

Wait, 20% of six doesn't make a full number. So, assuming only the full members of the ORder count, who did Dame_Mechanus mean?

I was mostly counting Roy. Yes, Durkon died (three times) before then, but each time he was up and walking again within a matter of minutes. (Sure, one time was with him being a prisoner inside of his own head for a while, but that's slightly less of a distinction.) If you want to be more technical about it, then yes, Belkar's only beating 60% of his traveling companions there.

Of course, that kind of highlights the specifics of the Oracle's prophecy in a way that I haven't seen people talking about. Belkar is going to die, but everything the Oracle has said indicates that he's not just going to die but he's going to stay dead. And we know for a fact that Durkon could bring him back... if he had access to a body.

So is Belkar going to die in a way that would make it impossible for him to be brought back, or is he in some way going to make a choice not to come back akin to Shojo?

[dancrilis]

Right fixed.

Wait, 20% of six doesn't make a full number. So, assuming only the full members of the ORder count, who did Dame_Mechanus mean?

I could easily be wrong but I suspect they meant Durkon and forgot that Roy also died already - but that is a complete guess.

Edit: and an incorrect guess at that.

[Fyraltari]

I was mostly counting Roy. Yes, Durkon died (three times) before then, but each time he was up and walking again within a matter of minutes. (Sure, one time was with him being a prisoner inside of his own head for a while, but that's slightly less of a distinction.) If you want to be more technical about it, then yes, Belkar's only beating 60% of his traveling companions there.

Of course, that kind of highlights the specifics of the Oracle's prophecy in a way that I haven't seen people talking about. Belkar is going to die, but everything the Oracle has said indicates that he's not just going to die but he's going to stay dead. And we know for a fact that Durkon could bring him back... if he had access to a body.

So is Belkar going to die in a way that would make it impossible for him to be brought back, or is he in some way going to make a choice not to come back akin to Shojo?

There was debate a few pages ago (or maybe on another thread) as to whether the Order would even attempt to bring him back.
But I think it's likely that his body and/or soul will be destroyed, side-stepping the issue entirely.

[Provengreil]

There was debate a few pages ago (or maybe on another thread) as to whether the Order would even attempt to bring him back.
But I think it's likely that his body and/or soul will be destroyed, side-stepping the issue entirely.

My expectation is that, like the dwarves, the final acts of his life will be in some way excessively important in his placement in the afterlife. He's never getting into CG, there's too much evil his past, but he just might make it to neutral. If that happens, then either he won't want to return or the party won't try to return him: too much chance of a backslide that results in the inferno.

[Peelee]

My expectation is that, like the dwarves

Why compare to the dwarves? They have their issue written into the fabric of existence.

[Provengreil]

Why compare to the dwarves? They have their issue written into the fabric of existence.

Because their situation opens up the question that your final moments might be more important than the rest sometimes. I figure its overall more likely he dies to either the snarl or the fiends' artifact and his soul is destroyed or otherwise unreachable, but the idea that he sneaks across the neutral line right at the end has some appeal to me.

[Peelee]

Because their situation opens up the question that your final moments might be more important than the rest sometimes. I figure its overall more likely he dies to either the snarl or the fiends' artifact and his soul is destroyed or otherwise unreachable, but the idea that he sneaks across the neutral line right at the end has some appeal to me.

Their situation is explicitly a rare exceptiot to how it works for everyone else.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not averse to your idea in general and I actually support it. I just think the dwarves situation is not comparable.

[Charity322]

Yeah, the dwarven system is weird, because it appears that no matter what your alignment is you go to Hel with a dishonourable death and Valhalla with an honourable one. So you could be an evil bastard all your life and then get in to Valhalla anyway (In fact Hilga plans to work the system for exactly that).

Belkar's manner of death won't eradicate all the evil on his file though, so it's totally different.

Edit: The fiends' artifact?

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, the dwarven system is weird, because it appears that no matter what your alignment is you go to Hel with a dishonourable death and Valhalla with an honourable one.

No it doesn't. It's been stated a couple time that a dishonorable death gets you Hel and an honorable one gets you the normal process. It's just that 99% of the dwarves xe've met in comic worship gods who live in Valhalla so that's what they're aiming for.

[Charity322]

Does Loki live in Valhalla?

[dancrilis]

Edit: The fiends' artifact?

It is mentioned on Panel 7, we don't have anymore info on it outside of that page (to my knowledge).