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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    V's best move might be to spam Dispel Magic and keeping stripping away his defensive buffs;
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    You make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +10) against the spell or against each ongoing spell currently in effect on the object or creature. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed on a particular check, that spell is dispelled; if you fail, that spell remains in effect.
    Checks do not autosucceed on a 20, V can not possibly succeed in dispelling anything that X casts with dispel magic, and needs to roll a 18 or higher for RC, assuming that RC is still level 17.

    Greater Dispel (level 6 slot) can allows V to roll at +17 or so (assuming level 16 + bauble, note that the bauble is currently out of range), and succeed against RC on a 11+ (still assuming only level 17 for RC) and against X on an unknown roll that needs to be a 15 at the absolute minimum (CL 17 for V and X is only CL 21).

    This is not great. Antimagic field at level 6 is a better suggestion, but they've got Sunny to do that for free (within limits).

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

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    Minrah's last line and I burst out laughing loud enough to wake the house... being yelled at to go to bed

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    I forget the specific wording for Rich's reason for including her, but good lord I love her interactions with the party.

    Also I like Haley muttering "if you hit me with your staff, you're going to be eating it." It wasn't that funny at the start, and that was actually a fairly reasonable question. Though I don't think Serini would have hit her for that either way.

    Mostly just "me like Minrah" here, not a whole lot to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    I originally read the title as "Bite size, color, and number of holes", which led me down a very different mental path.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I don't know if getting rid of the guy who knows narrative structure in a structured narrative is the best idea frankly - he could at least tell them that they need to do all their planning off panel or else the plan is likely to fail.
    Eh, well, Roy has already relied on Elan's expertise once or twice today ("Is this it? Is this where the final battle happens?"), so he has definitely contributed. The other important thing to consider is that if you rely too much on narrative structure, you might end up like Tarquin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    There actually are meetings that serve a useful purpose and where the best method is to get everyone to sit around the same table at the same time.

    It's just that we're so used to the other kind that most people don't expect that.
    No joke, my current job is like this. You're only in a meeting if the meeting is important and your input/awareness is directly required. Meetings are efficient and we're done on time. I don't know how they're doing it - my current guess is witchcraft. It's freaking eerie.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    While I am not exactly an expert in how the world outside college works, that sounds less witchcraft and more a divine miracle.

    Of course, depending on the theistic situation it may technically be both but let's not get too much into religion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I am hoping for a cut to the IFCC, but I doubt I'll get what I want. A cut to Team Evil is about due.
    I wonder how OOTS will take the IFCC into account, because they know they can stop V anytime they want. It seems IFCC wants the last gate destroyed, so they do anything they can to move Team Evil closer to the final gate.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I forget the specific wording for Rich's reason for including her, but good lord I love her interactions with the party.

    Also I like Haley muttering "if you hit me with your staff, you're going to be eating it." It wasn't that funny at the start, and that was actually a fairly reasonable question. Though I don't think Serini would have hit her for that either way.

    Mostly just "me like Minrah" here, not a whole lot to say.
    From what I remember, "new characters equals new jokes & dynamics to explore" was a main reason! I think one big element of adding Minrah was that we got to have an outsider's perspective on Belkar: the way she interacts with him is entirely different than how the rest of the team interacts with him, and helps to show how he's changed from original perceptions!

    Side note: I've really enjoyed the character density of OotS. It never feels like there are too many characters or too many dangling subplots, and almost every detour has felt crucial to understanding and appreciating the main storyline. Just about the only part you could cut without losing too much context is the Bandana/Andi dynamic, although even that I really appreciated for a normie's insight into how crazy the OotS-verse has gotten. How do random everyday mercenaries react when they suddenly get caught up in a plot to save the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reboot View Post
    This is really infantilising Elan, in a way which is particularly bad coming from his girlfriend & life partner...
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Honestly, in that line she reads more like a mom than like a wife.
    I've had this back-and-forth feeling about Haley & Elan's dynamic before: it's fun to have a fictional relationship where the guy is the complete ditz but still romantic, empathetic, and competent (in his own ways). However, some of the jokes of Haley managing Elan's behavior do read as very maternal, especially that exchange when he'd been lured away by Sunny which verged on feeling almost icky for me. I think their dynamic is at its strongest in scenes like bartering in Sandsedge, where they're both acting like adults but Elan simply has much lower savvy.

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Once one gets married, that sort of thing happens more often, not less.
    I disagree with that generalization. The vast majority of married couples I know treat each other with mutual respect.
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2022-06-08 at 11:22 AM. Reason: gratuitous quotation marks

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Man, that last panel had me cracking up! Minrah's expression!

    Also: "a plan to plan a plan is as good a plan as any"

    Thanks, Rich!
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2022-06-08 at 11:25 AM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dmc91356 View Post
    I tend to read the strip titles first, and could not figure out what was going on with that until the end. Well played.
    Also look at the arrangement of the cast in the first panel: grouped by size (humans, halflings, dwarves), color (green for the halflings, grey for the dwarves, and the analogy doesn't really work for Haley and Elan), and number (distinct groups of two all around). Roy also groups himself with the paladins later, making a blue group.

    Least, that's what I'm seeing.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    I disagree with that generalization. The vast majority of married couples I know treat each other with mutual respect.
    I should have probably added "YMMV" to that post.
    I wonder how OOTS will take the IFCC into account, because they know they can stop V anytime they want. It seems IFCC wants the last gate destroyed, so they do anything they can to move Team Evil closer to the final gate.
    V disclosed the IFCC problem to Roy after they left Tarquin behind, but does the whole Order really know and understand what's going on there?

    I will opine that full disclosure to the whole team, by V, as regards the IFCC problem is long overdue. I don't think we've seen that on screen yet, V disclosing that to anybody but Roy. (They did get to see V in soul spliced form near the end of DStP, so maybe the full disclosure happened off screen?)
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2022-06-08 at 11:31 AM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dmc91356 View Post
    I tend to read the strip titles first, and could not figure out what was going on with that until the end. Well played.
    Hah, I saw the Twitter post so I did the same thing-- I usually don't, but I found myself extremely curious as to how it would factor into the strip while I was reading it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reboot View Post
    This is really infantilising Elan, in a way which is particularly bad coming from his girlfriend & life partner...
    Eh, she just knows who he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    No joke, my current job is like this. You're only in a meeting if the meeting is important and your input/awareness is directly required. Meetings are efficient and we're done on time. I don't know how they're doing it - my current guess is witchcraft. It's freaking eerie.
    Funny, I was just talking to another friend this morning who just rewatched Office Space, which is, of course, the archetype for the kind of awful workspace that is the opposite of yours.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    I can easily imagine Sunny and Elan, off having fun, tossing around ideas for how to surprise everybody in helpful ways. For narrative reasons, this will only make a big difference if they come back and tell everyone that they have some secret plans to help. Because you can't have something like that in a well-written story unless it's foreshadowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by elros View Post
    I would not thought Minrah would need to distracted by counting buttons. She is so active and strong willed that I think she would have been training with the soldiers and daring anyone to tell her not to!
    There's an age range where sorting buttons is feasible but the soldiers wouldn't want her underfoot. Even assuming that there are classes and activity sessions for children, there may well not be 24-hour child care available, so Minrah's Nana would find her an absorbing activity at home.

    I recall that my mother had a big jar of buttons, many of them snipped from old clothes that were about to be thrown out, or repurposed as fabric or rags. I don't remember being tasked with sorting them, though that would have been an excellent activity for me. Once. I would probably have done the sorting more quickly than anyone expected, and then insisted that the buttons be stored in such a way as to preserve the order.

    EDIT: I did, at one point, have a jar of pennies, which I won at a Cub Scout meeting by guessing the number of pennies. I'm not certain that I sorted them by age, but I definitely went through the jar and separated out the really old ones.
    Last edited by bunsen_h; 2022-06-08 at 11:58 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    New theory, based on her line from the last panel: Haley is really just V disguised as a human (whereas V is really just V not disguised as a human.)

    Halley grew a lot in her growth story arc, and so now she is not afraid to act as a competent manager and leader. It seems natural for rogues to grow into leadership roles.

    I didn't remember that strip, and now I'm hoping that we will get a resolution to the evil-empire-ruled-by-secret-father storyline before the comic ends. What would be a better way to defeat Tarquin without him looking badass, that to do it entirely off-panel, and with a plan delegated to secondary characters?
    Last edited by TuringTest; 2022-06-08 at 12:15 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by internisus View Post
    "an unstructured alliance-strengthening exercise"

    I love it. Brilliant.

    Roy's positivity is refreshing, too!
    You got that wrong, the actual, faithful quote is “an unstructured alliance-strengthening excercise”.

    (I came into this thread intending to point out the typo to Rich.)
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    elan and sunny are so adorable <3
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    I've had this back-and-forth feeling about Haley & Elan's dynamic before: it's fun to have a fictional relationship where the guy is the complete ditz but still romantic, empathetic, and competent (in his own ways). However, some of the jokes of Haley managing Elan's behavior do read as very maternal, especially that exchange when he'd been lured away by Sunny which verged on feeling almost icky for me. I think their dynamic is at its strongest in scenes like bartering in Sandsedge, where they're both acting like adults but Elan simply has much lower savvy.

    [...]

    The vast majority of married couples I know treat each other with mutual respect.
    I don't see Haley as disrespectful, nor an unhealthy dynamic necessarily. Elan is childish in intellectual matters, with intelligence being his dump stat. His growth story arc focused on learning how to manage his emotions, gaining wisdom and behaving as an adult in his family and couple relationships. That's a good basis for a healthy relationship, if that means she has to handle matters that require brain power.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Talky strip talks about talking in upcoming strips featuring more talking


    But will there be a powerpoint?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    You know the Order are still only quasi-professionals because they're not holding a pre-meeting first before the meeting.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Nope. Seems to me that she's acting like his wife aka telling him what to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Reboot View Post
    This is really infantilising Elan, in a way which is particularly bad coming from his girlfriend & life partner...
    Once one gets married, that sort of thing happens more often, not less.
    I'll never understand the older generations' jokes about married life, but at least I do understand the incredibly high divorce rate.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Sunny and Elan are the perfect pair
    On the other hand: I agree with Reboot that that isn't a good dynamic between Haley and Elan.
    Last edited by 137beth; 2022-06-08 at 12:49 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'll never understand the older generations' jokes about married life, but at least I do understand the incredibly high divorce rate.
    They remind me of Mr. Show's parody of Dr. Laura. "Men 'R' stupid, okay? But women 'R' stupider. But we have to get married! I did it, now it's your turn. Get in line! Get in line, you dumb [expletive]!"

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PontificatusRex View Post
    Talky strip talks about talking in upcoming strips featuring more talking
    Thog, is that you?

    Quote Originally Posted by PontificatusRex View Post
    (White text on white background): But will there be a powerpoint?
    We heard that, you know :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'll never understand the older generations' jokes about married life, but at least I do understand the incredibly high divorce rate.
    Having expectations of a life together sometimes means taking small frustrations with humor. It doesn't mean you don't get something more valuable in return.

    (Of course I'm glad that people no longer put up with BIG frustrations -or something worse :shudders:- just because of social pressure and divorce is just one more option among many).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    I've had this back-and-forth feeling about Haley & Elan's dynamic before: it's fun to have a fictional relationship where the guy is the complete ditz but still romantic, empathetic, and competent (in his own ways). However, some of the jokes of Haley managing Elan's behavior do read as very maternal, especially that exchange when he'd been lured away by Sunny which verged on feeling almost icky for me. I think their dynamic is at its strongest in scenes like bartering in Sandsedge, where they're both acting like adults but Elan simply has much lower savvy.
    Yeah, it's a fine line. I'm okay with "You can go play with Sunny"; if I were given the choice between attending a strategy meeting and having an "unstructured alliance-strengthening excercise" with a child, I'd be fine with someone who knew what my choice would be characterising it that way. "No roughhousing", however, is the point where I think "Okay, mom."
    Last edited by Daibhid C; 2022-06-08 at 01:13 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Um, shouldn't they be worried about Xykon scrying for them?

    Quote Originally Posted by PontificatusRex View Post
    Talky strip talks about talking in upcoming strips featuring more talking
    In all honestly, when talking about word count per page, I feel like OOTS has the highest counts of any comic I can remember reading that doesn't get into the trap of 'show, don't tell'.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2022-06-08 at 02:25 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'll never understand the older generations' jokes about married life, but at least I do understand the incredibly high divorce rate.
    I'll have been married (once) for 33 1/2 years one month from today. Any other questions, feel free to ask.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    Um, shouldn't they be worried about Xykon scrying for them?
    Xykon can't scry spontaneously.

    He needs to teleport to his Teevo to scry.
    In all honestly, when talking about word count per page, I feel like OOTS has the highest counts of any comic I can remember reading that doesn't get into the trap of 'show, don't tell'.
    That doesn't really seem to be the relevant trap to me. Just saying something is pretty efficient ("Redcloak exhibits sunk cost fallacy"). Showing anything takes much longer. The words are there, for the most part, to show characters emotions/ personalities/ and relationships.
    The thing is the Azurites don't use a single color; they use a single hue. The use light blue, dark blue, black, white, glossy blue, off-white with a bluish tint. They sky's the limit, as long as it's blue.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I'll have been married (once) for 33 1/2 years one month from today. Any other questions, feel free to ask.
    In three months, it'll be an LP.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    I've had this back-and-forth feeling about Haley & Elan's dynamic before: it's fun to have a fictional relationship where the guy is the complete ditz but still romantic, empathetic, and competent (in his own ways). However, some of the jokes of Haley managing Elan's behavior do read as very maternal, especially that exchange when he'd been lured away by Sunny which verged on feeling almost icky for me.
    Ever read the book "I'm OK, You're OK" {Harris} about transactional analysis?
    There was a part in that about the roles people assume in a conversation and various attempts to frame their positions as adult -> child or parent -> child ... which is what Haley is doing.
    The author (Harris) does not illustrate that as healthy relationship.

    Granted, Rich uses exaggeration for attempted comic effect with great frequency, and poking at tropes/patterns like that also.

    While I am not sure if that book was the origin of The Parent, Adult, Child (P-A-C) model, it's the first place I remember seeing it).
    Spoiler: RL example
    Show

    My daughter tried to pull that crap on my wife last year (P-C interaction) and caused some interpersonal trauma. They eventually sorted it out.


    Your 'gut reaction' to that strikes me as rational.
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    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
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    Default Re: OOTS #1259 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    Um, shouldn't they be worried about Xykon scrying for them?
    Don't worry, the scrying allows a save, so as long as the order can...pass a will save...yeah ok, that might be a problem. Still, it's something I'd expect Serini would think about, so perhaps the backstage is warded against that kind of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    In all honestly, when talking about word count per page, I feel like OOTS has the highest counts of any comic I can remember reading that doesn't get into the trap of 'show, don't tell'.
    Okay, funny question, what's the webcomic you can remember reading with the lowest word count per page that does fall into 'show, don't tell'?

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