Am I being salty about nothing?

[Sir-Carlos]

Okay, this is something super minor, so I donÂ’t know if I even should approach the DM about it. That is why I vent here:

We just began a new adventure. We did one quest for a Duchess, which didnÂ’t go that well, but we still managed to do it. The Duchess pays us and, on top of that, gifts one high-born character a piece of jewelry, to remember her by. Now, that character is a bit of a scoundrel, so he immediately sold the piece of jewelry for 200 gold, xD. From that gold, we bought a cart, 2 mules, some wheat and some pumpkins for 100 gold.

The thing is: we are playing Curse of Strahd and in the night, we got teleported to Strahds domain. The mules are still with us, but the cart and the wares are gone, they werenÂ’t teleported with us. Without us being able to do something about it, despite us holding watch the entire night. I am a bit salty about it and so is the player of the high-born character. I feel silly being salty about something so minor and I understand that Curse of Strahd WILL take away things that are dear to the players. But the way it happened feels wrong, you know what I mean? Any thoughts? Should I talk with the DM about it? And how do I approach this? Am I being an Idiot?

( man this whole text seems kind of silly)

[One Tin Soldier]

I think your instincts are probably right here, but it might be worth asking your DM if they plan on taking items or loot from you regularly during the campaign. If nothing else, establishing that early on will set your expectations.

[Batcathat]

If it's just a one time thing, I wouldn't be bothered by it (it doesn't sound like you lost anything important, if I understand things correctly?) but I could see being annoyed if it was a regular thing.

But obviously there's not any "right" or "wrong" reaction here, so if it bothers you, you should probably bring it up (of course, if the GM think you're complaining about something largely insignificant, that's a valid reaction too).

[Alcore]

You are right to be salty; there was no chance to save them.


I agree with the others and talking with the GM (and that it is quite minor so if it a one off occurrence it is... okay-ish?). Good thing you are here as salty is better than salty and emotional. Just approach it calmly (you might get that stuff back).

[kyoryu]

Honestly the thing that bugs me is the "oh you're playing Strahd" shift when clearly nobody thought that was a thing. It was also done fairly clumsily.

[Altheus]

This confuses me, the GM giveth and the GM taketh away.

You had a bit of bad luck, why were you bothering with a cart anyhow?

[KorvinStarmast]

You had a bit of bad luck, why were you bothering with a cart anyhow?

Useful for carrying people and stuff. We entered Barovia on a cart recently, but it belonged to some Vistani we had met before we came through the first gate.

For the OP: discuss with GM, with the "I don't understand why" as your intro to the question, and see what the response is. Pursue it or don't once you get the initial response.

[Mastikator]

It happens. Your DM always takes away your carts, my DM always kills our horses.

[Talakeal]

Players are always incredibly salty about any loss of property, no matter how minor.

Psychologists say loss aversion causes people to feel loss seven times as strongly as gain, and I say that is conservative when it comes to PCs.

I once had the players get mad when they refused to turn the Macguffen that their mentor had sent them to retrieve despite already agreeing to it and having been paid for their services, and then said that he was “pouting like a two year old” when he responded by ending their professional relationship.

In short, yes you are being unreasonable, but the GM should absolutely have seen it coming if they have ever DMed before because it is not unusual or unexpected.

[Pauly]

The GM gifted the other player an obvious macguffin intended to be a plot hook down the line. This isn’t a reward, as it was over and above the reward. It’s also a unique and noticeable item. It’ clear to me that the GM had plans for that item in the future because he said ‘this is for you to remember me by” - the GM literally told the character to hold onto this because it will be important later.

I’d be salty that the player who received it sold it for coin. I’d be completely unsurprised that the GM would then do something to make what he bought with the proceeds less valuable because of human nature. If you mess with someone else’s plans don’t be surprised if they mess with yours. Should the GM have messed with what the player bought? - most people here will say probably not. On the other hand it’s a bit of a murder hobo thing to do and if you reward murder hoboism you get more murder hoboism.

I think you’re completely right to be salty. It’s just that you’re salty at the wrong person.

[Batcathat]

Players are always incredibly salty about any loss of property, no matter how minor.

Psychologists say loss aversion causes people to feel loss seven times as strongly as gain, and I say that is conservative when it comes to PCs.

I once had the players get mad when they refused to turn the Macguffen that their mentor had sent them to retrieve despite already agreeing to it and having been paid for their services, and then said that he was “pouting like a two year old” when he responded by ending their professional relationship.

In short, yes you are being unreasonable, but the GM should absolutely have seen it coming if they have ever DMed before because it is not unusual or unexpected.

I think "always" is an exaggeration, I've seen players lose far more than that with a shrug and while I haven't had the misfortune of meeting one, I don't doubt there are people who would have a meltdown over much less.

That said, I agree that a reaction like this is common enough that it shouldn't be entirely unexpected from the GM's perspective.

[meandean]

I could see this both ways. On one hand, it does make sense that if you're suddenly and involuntarily teleported, you don't get to bring along possessions that you're storing on a cart somewhere else. On the other hand, the mules did get teleported, so why not give you the other things? It's rather hard to believe that a cart, wheat, and pumpkins will create a game balance issue.

I would ask the DM why the mules were teleported and not the other stuff. That question should prompt them to lay out their thought process for you.

[icefractal]

On the other hand - how much use would the wheat and pumpkins even be if you've been pulled into Ravenloft now?

I'm not sure what was the original plan - go to another kingdom and try to sell them for more? Start a farm? Make pumpkin pies? But it seems like those may well be impossible in this situation even if you'd kept all the goods.

An important question is - did you (the players) know that this campaign was going to be Curse of Strahd? If not, the bigger issue would be the bait-n-switch than the lost cart. If so, then why were you trying to play Markets & Merchants to begin with? It doesn't seem like an adventure/campaign very suited to that playstyle.

[kyoryu]

Again my issue is the rug pull.

Regardless of what was done or if the pumpkins could have gone through, the players clearly thought they were playing a game where that was reasonable, and made decisions on that - and it got completely changed without any input from them or any ability to change that.

That's not really something that I'd consider best practices.

[Quertus]

Again my issue is the rug pull.

Regardless of what was done or if the pumpkins could have gone through, the players clearly thought they were playing a game where that was reasonable, and made decisions on that - and it got completely changed without any input from them or any ability to change that.

That's not really something that I'd consider best practices.

So... if (*if*) "every living thing within an X-foot radius" was teleported, with their possessions (so, no naked PCS), *but* the cart does *not* count as a possession for the mules, then it follows logic and game physics for the cart and pumpkins to be left behind.

But, even under that scenario, you would consider it... not best practices... to initiate such an effect... without telegraphing the effect, or giving the PCs some ability to interact with it? Am I reading that right? If so, why?

Why is this not, instead, best practices to give the PCs something that they can investigate ("How come the cart and pumpkins didn't get teleported?"), come to understand the mechanism ("Oh, it only teleports living beings and their possessions"), and later use as a tool, that they earned?

Why are mysteries not best practices? Why is earning things not best practices?

[Batcathat]

Why is this not, instead, best practices to give the PCs something that they can investigate ("How come the cart and pumpkins didn't get teleported?"), come to understand the mechanism ("Oh, it only teleports living beings and their possessions"), and later use as a tool, that they earned?

Why are mysteries not best practices? Why is earning things not best practices?

This is a good point. Potential reasons like that is part of why I personally wouldn't be bothered by it happening once (but if similar things happened again and again with no payoff, I'd probably mind).

[GloatingSwine]

On the other hand - how much use would the wheat and pumpkins even be if you've been pulled into Ravenloft now?

I'm not sure what was the original plan - go to another kingdom and try to sell them for more? Start a farm? Make pumpkin pies? But it seems like those may well be impossible in this situation even if you'd kept all the goods.

An important question is - did you (the players) know that this campaign was going to be Curse of Strahd? If not, the bigger issue would be the bait-n-switch than the lost cart. If so, then why were you trying to play Markets & Merchants to begin with? It doesn't seem like an adventure/campaign very suited to that playstyle.

I dunno, Unexpected Strahd could be fun, but I feel like Ravenloft is the sort of place you should get to by pulling too tenaciously on the wrong thread rather than by going "poof" in the night.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The "your mules get transported, your cart doesn't" bit strikes me as a spur-of-the-moment compromise between leaving everything behind (because why would Strahd/the mists bother with a cart?) and taking the whole thing (because you paid for it and presumably had plans).

[Quertus]

I dunno, Unexpected Strahd could be fun, but I feel like Ravenloft is the sort of place you should get to by pulling too tenaciously on the wrong thread rather than by going "poof" in the night.

On the one hand, when you say that, I realize that every party that went to Ravenloft on my watch did so via the "poof in the night" method, and that makes the Ravenloft of my experience feel kinda... arbitrary compared to your hypothetical Ravenloft.

OTOH, do we really want to give terrible alignment-change GMs an even bigger stick? "Oh, you didn't bow and scrape to my NPC enough? Change your alignment to Evil... and, while we're at it, free trip to Ravenloft."

Maybe I'll take comfort in a cold and uncaring universe (or however Marcus put it).

(Also, what BBEG wouldn't earn a free trip to Ravenloft? What would the PCs motivation even be at that point, other than to use Sending to ask Ravenloft what the expected wait time is? )

[MrStabby]

I don't think it unreasonable to be unhappy about this. I don't think the DM did anything too bad, but that doesn't mean it won't be annoying.

So the party go some suff that was important to the party. You can tell how important it was given that they traded some jewelery for it. That clearly shows its value to the players. Takin away with no fight, no ability check... with no warning kind of sucks.

On the other hand, this was a preamble and a set up to the whole new campaign. Yes its a bit railroady but the DM wants you to be at a paricular point to kick off the next phase and that is somewhere without the cart and wares. You had some different expecatations here.

So to put a positive spin on it - if the DM is generally a good DM there are some good reasons to think it won't be a regular thing. Its a specific action for a specific circumstance.

On the negative side, it was a bit unthinking of the DM and the DM didn't really communicae that well... so maybe his specific thing won't repeat but there may be other issues.


And the answer...

Play along, try to have fun and work with the DM to make a fun plot for everyone. Express sorrow at the lost carts, see if you can get new ones and consider the loss of your produce as a setup for the campaign.

[KorvinStarmast]

When life deals you lemons, make lemonade.

Your have two mules. Get ten or twenty pounds of salt. Barovia has a lot of trees/forests.
Set up camp, slaughter the mules, and after rubbing the meat with salt slow smoke it.
A few hundred pounds of Donkey Jerky. Food for weeks.

You don't need food for a good long while. All you need is water.

[meandean]

When life deals you lemons, make lemonade.

Your have two mules. Get ten or twenty pounds of salt. Barovia has a lot of trees/forests.
Set up camp, slaughter the mules, and after rubbing the meat with salt slow smoke it.
A few hundred pounds of Donkey Jerky. Food for weeks.

You don't need food for a good long while. All you need is water.

A salty solution to a salty problem!

[Tanarii]

I think you’re completely right to be salty. It’s just that you’re salty at the wrong person.

Agreed. I also think the person to be salty with is the player of the PC that sold the jewelry.

[Reversefigure4]

It's a Curse of Strahd campaign, which actively encourages the GM to play mean with the players. This doesn't seem like a particularly bad loss? 100gp worth of stuff practically falls out of trees on adventurers, and I doubt you had serious game-defining plans for those pumpkins that aren't easily replaced. It's a far cry from 'the heirloom sword my father left me'.

Do you trust the GM? If not, Curse of Strahd doesn't seem like a great campaign choice. If so, then why worry over a small loss of pumpkins and a cart?

[Morgaln]

I can somewhat relate to the OP, as I had something similar happen to me. In a Vampire:Dark Ages campaign, we were travelling in a caravan, with each of us having their own cart. When passing through a village, we noticed suspicious activity that seemed to relate to us, so I stayed behind in the village to investigate, while the rest of the group travelled onwards. I left some equipment in my cart that I didn't want to carry around during a possible stealth sequence (e. g. my bow). My investigation didn't turn up anything due to some bad die rolls, but while I was in the village, the caravan got ambushed by people with fire arrows. While the other characters easily fought off the attackers, after the battle we were informed that a single cart had burnt down during the battle and that cart had been mine.
I was pissed; certainly due to the loss of expensive equipment that I didn't have the resources to replace, but also because I hadn't had any way to even interact with the scene that resulted in me losing stuff. I had not been there, so I couldn't prevent my cart from burning or extinguish the fire; we had drivers and other non-combatants with us, but clearly those didn't do anything to try and save my cart. Even if my investigation had turned up anything, it would not have been in time to prevent the ambush, so I couldn't even pass it off to myself as indirectly failing to prevent it.

Despite the anger over the loss itself, I think the bigger issue was my lack of agency in what happened. I did get over it eventually, but the thing is, I don't even see how the issue could have been fixed aside from a full-out retcon (which I wouldn't have wanted). So that would be my question to the OP: what do you expect your GM to do to fix the issue? Is there anything they can do to lay the matter to rest or at least help you get over it? If not, talking to the GM might not have much effect aside of causing a scene.

[kyoryu]

So... if (*if*) "every living thing within an X-foot radius" was teleported, with their possessions (so, no naked PCS), *but* the cart does *not* count as a possession for the mules, then it follows logic and game physics for the cart and pumpkins to be left behind.

But, even under that scenario, you would consider it... not best practices... to initiate such an effect... without telegraphing the effect, or giving the PCs some ability to interact with it? Am I reading that right? If so, why?

Why is this not, instead, best practices to give the PCs something that they can investigate ("How come the cart and pumpkins didn't get teleported?"), come to understand the mechanism ("Oh, it only teleports living beings and their possessions"), and later use as a tool, that they earned?

Why are mysteries not best practices? Why is earning things not best practices?

The issue isn't the mystery. It's the rug-pull.

In this scenario I think a better way of handling it is "you'll start in <setting> but will be pulled into Strahd's domain." Much like, in general, a movie doesn't advertise itself as a comedy but it turns out it's actually a horror movie.

Do that, and everything else can remain the same, and it is less likely to have issues.

[Zombimode]

In this scenario I think a better way of handling it is "you'll start in <setting> but will be pulled into Strahd's domain." Much like, in general, a movie doesn't advertise itself as a comedy but it turns out it's actually a horror movie.

Actually, some movies do this. And some people enjoy watching movies (or playing games) withou knowing much or anything about them.

And this element of suprise is exactly one of the benefits of blind-watching / blind-gaming.


Now, if you enjoy that or not is up to preference.
But rug-pull is not a bad GM pratice - just something that some players might not enjoy.

[kyoryu]

Actually, some movies do this. And some people enjoy watching movies (or playing games) withou knowing much or anything about them.

And this element of suprise is exactly one of the benefits of blind-watching / blind-gaming.


Now, if you enjoy that or not is up to preference.
But rug-pull is not a bad GM pratice - just something that some players might not enjoy.

I can only really think of two significant movies that do this - From Dusk Til Dawn and The Matrix.

The Matrix was a surprise, but the surprise was heavily telegraphed, even if the nature wasn't. The whole advertising campaign was basically "not everything is what it seems".

[Thrudd]

There's no indication, atm, that the players didn't know they were playing Curse of Strahd. Now, hopefully, none of them knew exactly what happens in that adventure (since that's sort of the point). But it is possible that they were aware that Ravenloft-related stories involve getting transported to a realm of gothic horror movie monsters. Also, this is 5e, and gold is really not as important as in other editions. Losing 100 gold (which, honestly, was wasted on pumpkins and wheat?! anyway) is not a big deal. Losing a cart is not a big deal- it isn't like carts don't exist in Barovia. I don't imagine having a cart and some trade goods is going to mean a whole lot in this scenario (or any 5e D&D scenario), anyway.

I would roll with the punches and trust the DM, it's the very beginning of the campaign. Reserve judgment for at least a few more sessions before deciding if they are a bad sort of "rug puller".

[Zombimode]

Ok, movie advertisement is its own topic as trailers range from "stiring interest without showing much" to "spoilering major plotpoints" to "completely misleading".

It doesn't matter for the point I'm trying to make here, though.

Experiencing something with as little as possible knowledge of it beforhand IS something that some people like and even prefer.
Having your expectations suverted IS something that some people really enjoy.

Think about it: when someone talks about their favorite show and someone else, who has not seen it yet but plans to, shuts them up immediately? The same principle.


And with horror specifically it being telegraphed makes it loose a lot of its sting.
For passive media like a movie it doesn't matter as much because while the viewer knows that this is a horror movie, they can still have empathy towards the characters that are subject to the horror and thus feel the horror themselves.

For active media like video games and ttrpgs telegraphed horror is much harder to achieve in a way that actually holds up to the genre - instead of just being a paint job (that is: a game using common horror aesthetics without actually being horror).
If you want a effective horror game, doing some form of rug-pull is a really useful technique.