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Thread: Ms. Marvel

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Ms. Marvel

    First episode is out today.

    It's clever, funny, very well done. I knew very little about the character, so it served as a good introduction.

    Also, the Jersey City AvengerCon is hilarious and a compact homage to highlights of the MCU.

    Spoiler: Powers
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    As for her powers, there's no real explanation yet--she slips on the bracelet, there's a surge of cosmicality and her abilities respond intuitively, more or less, to what she needs to do. More or less.

    There's almost a Spider-Man feel here, with an outcast teenager navigating high school and discovering superpowers. There's no obvious connection to Captain Marvel apart from Kamala's near-obsessive fangirling, so the Ms. Marvel aspect is apparently branding rather than shared cosmicness.


    Enjoyed it, definitely looking forward to more.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    First episode is out today.

    It's clever, funny, very well done. I knew very little about the character, so it served as a good introduction.

    Also, the Jersey City AvengerCon is hilarious and a compact homage to highlights of the MCU.

    Spoiler: Powers
    Show
    As for her powers, there's no real explanation yet--she slips on the bracelet, there's a surge of cosmicality and her abilities respond intuitively, more or less, to what she needs to do. More or less.

    There's almost a Spider-Man feel here, with an outcast teenager navigating high school and discovering superpowers. There's no obvious connection to Captain Marvel apart from Kamala's near-obsessive fangirling, so the Ms. Marvel aspect is apparently branding rather than shared cosmicness.


    Enjoyed it, definitely looking forward to more.
    Yeah, mostly because Inhumans went bust (apparently, making a crossover that made them less likable and portraying a reformer who wanted to end the caste system and slavery as a villain is a bad idea) and maybe decided that their magic fart gas should be canned.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    There's no obvious connection to Captain Marvel apart from Kamala's near-obsessive fangirling, so the Ms. Marvel aspect is apparently branding rather than shared cosmicness.
    In the comics, Kamala's body manipulation powers also allow her to shapeshift, i.e. completely change her appearance. Her moniker as Ms Marvel came not just from fangirling over Carol, but from accidentally assuming Carol's likeness and even one of her older costumes when her powers manifested.

    About the only thing they kept from that origin for this version (at least so far) was the fangirling - which I don't mind as the comic-accurate origin would have needed a lot more explanation. This version is much more streamlined in that regard.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by t209 View Post
    Yeah, mostly because Inhumans went bust (apparently, making a crossover that made them less likable and portraying a reformer who wanted to end the caste system and slavery as a villain is a bad idea) and maybe decided that their magic fart gas should be canned.
    Also because they don't have to push them as the own-brand alternative to the X-Men who we actually own the movie rights to any more.

    If Ms. Marvel had come out before Ike Perlmutter's great crusade against characters he couldn't squeeze movie money out of, 99.9% chance she would have been a Mutant not an Inhuman.

    I do not expect her to be linked to the Inhumans at all in this show (even though that sadly means no Lockjaw), that bracelet that powered her up is *probably* the MCU version of the Nega Bands (originally used by Mar-Vell in the comics), and that might mean there's another one that shows up by the end of the series (they come in pairs, but when separated only one can be used at once, the other one turns off).

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    The Inhumans are such an interesting concept, it is sad they are never given the proper space to shine (as the X-Men are easier to explain and relate to).

    I am enjoying the vibe of the show so far. I think it will become quite popular with younger viewers.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Second episode is out, and it’s absolutely brilliant. I can’t remember the last time I enjoyed a Disney+ show this much.

    You can tell when people have poured themselves into a project, and this one just glows. It’s clever, inventive and often hilarious—but beyond this, it’s an empathetic window into a world that’s both Pakistani and American.

    This is as important in its own way as Black Panther, but without the gravitas of a story based around a ruling family. Here the family is both ordinary and extraordinary in other ways, and you can feel how their lives have been fundamentally changed by events which don’t often come up in mainstream American awareness.

    Much of what I liked can’t be discussed here, and I’m surprised some of the issues are included in an otherwise lighthearted superhero show. But nothing is forced on the narrative; every element is a natural aspect of the characters and their world, even those things which are awkward or painful.

    For anyone who feels that much of Disney+ is disappointing pablum, I would encourage you to watch the first two episodes of Ms. Marvel. Here, at last, is something unique and worthwhile.

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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    I liked the Eternals shout-out.

    And it looks like we're finally about to get
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    some backstory on her Ring Bangle of Power thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    Really enjoyed both episodes! My only negative comment is that this continues the MCU's unbroken streak of any government agency that dares to try to regulate superhero activity being a weird mix of omniscient, incompetent and evil.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Originally Posted by ecarden
    My only negative comment is that this continues the MCU's unbroken streak of any government agency that dares to try to regulate superhero activity being a weird mix of omniscient, incompetent and evil.
    Pretty much, yes. Also:

    Spoiler: DoDC
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    Same sleazy, manipulative agent who played Ned like a fiddle in No Way Home.

    Also, the drones going after Kamala looked almost identical to the EDITH drones in Far From Home. Looks like Damage Control has managed to finagle some Stark tech for themselves.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Another excellent episode. Started out with a very weird turn, but then folded it naturally into the storyline, which continues to be a fusion of Pakistani family drama with superhero coming-of-age.

    The superhero portions are well enough done, but what makes this show really shine (so to speak) is the intimate perspective on the life of Kamala’s family and community in today’s America. It feels as if the show’s creators are sharing moments from their own lives—sometimes poignant or humorous, and sometimes a reminder of how difficult it can be for those not born here.

    But the show never preaches, never scolds, only illuminates. It brings greater depth and human warmth to its story and characters than most of the genre even attempts. It touches lightly on relevant history, even as it hints at how profoundly that history has affected everyone in this community; and it threads the concept of light (noor) throughout every aspect of the narrative.

    After three episodes this is easily the best show on Disney+ this year, and far better than most of the MCU shows we’ve seen so far. This episode ended on an unexpectedly complex note—and sets up a major change in venue for the next one, potentially involving one of the most complex location shoots for a Disney+ show.

    I can’t overstate how much I love this show, and how eagerly I’m looking forward to next week’s episode.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    I find this... fine. It's perfectly OK.
    It has a lot of the same issues the other Marvel Disney+ series have (issues that I'm not experienced enough to describe in a clear way), but it's enjoyable enough.

    I find it very amusing to see Palanan be such a fan!
    Personally I don't see anything special or different about the series, but I always enjoy reading about other people being in love with something.

    I do agree it's better than most Marvel Disney+ series, but that's also because a lot of those were quite terrible.
    Also looking forward to the inevitable Ms Marvel team-up because I think she would do well around some of the other big-screen characters.

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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    I also like this show quite a lot, and I actually find I vastly prefer the family drama over the superhero shennanigans. The Djinn are so far, honestly, quite boring villains. They don't even have any interesting powers, they are just your average group of strong melee combat thugs that the marvel universe has produced in the thousands.

    That said, there's been quite a few Disney+ series that were very good until the Finale (Moon Knight, Wandavision), so we'll see if they can finally stick the landing, or whether it will end up with another boring half hour fight scene.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Originally Posted by Murk
    I find this... fine. It's perfectly OK.
    Originally Posted by Eldan
    I also like this show quite a lot, and I actually find I vastly prefer the family drama over the superhero shennanigans.
    Really glad others are watching, and I agree completely that the superhero aspect is firmly average. What I love most are the family and cultural aspects, which for me really sets this show apart.

    Originally Posted by Murk
    I find it very amusing to see Palanan be such a fan!
    I’m…glad to help? Not sure why Palanan being a fan would play into it. Just puzzled, is all.

    Originally Posted by Eldan
    The Djinn are so far, honestly, quite boring villains. They don't even have any interesting powers, they are just your average group of strong melee combat thugs that the marvel universe has produced in the thousands.
    Agreed, although that blue arm we saw at the beginning of Episode 3 may be setting up something more interesting.

    Spoiler
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    Their performance in the wedding fight was distinctly underwhelming, but then they were trying to take Kamala alive, so they may have been holding back.


    And yes, I do have some concerns about whether this show will finally overcome the Disney-MCU tendency to solidly faceplant the landing. But for now I’m enjoying the ride.

    Next episode has the potential to be outstanding in several ways, so really looking forward to it.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    I love Nani's seeming inability to Facetime properly

    Also, I love the revelation that
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    MCU Kamala is a folklore creature rather than an Inhuman or Mutant

    as I think that ties into her culture much more strongly. The MCU is really leaning into the Ancient Aliens stuff and I'm here for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  15. - Top - End - #15
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    Another excellent episode. Tons of fun, often thoroughly hilarious, and slightly out there, but continuing the great ride of this series so far.

    This episode started exactly where I’d been hoping it would, and the family drama continues to be warm, nuanced and fully involving. This is the first really multigenerational story we’ve seen from the Disney+ shows, and it’s rendered with depth, poignancy and just a touch of affectionate exasperation.

    Beyond that, they continue to explore how this one family’s history is inextricably tied to a major historical event of the previous century. The sense of loss and dislocation is stronger than ever, and true to life they’re resisting any easy solutions through cheap platitudes. Yet Kamala’s experience of discovery and rediscovery is just as powerful, and anyone who’s read Maya Angelou will recognize similar themes here. As always, it’s subtly and beautifully done.

    As for the superheroics….


    Spoiler: Djinn & Sonic
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    Loved the introductory fight between Kamala and Red Dagger, especially their back-and-forth roasting. I wasn’t expecting Aramis Knight, but it’s great to see him again, and I’m getting just a hint of a potential love triangle.

    In the meantime, you’d think that yet another Secret Society Devoted to Protecting the World from Unseen ThreatsTM would be a bit much, but this particular society is at least integrated into the underlying mythology of the show—and I loved that map of the noor-world.


    Spoiler: Cut to the Chase
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    The auto-rickshaw chase was a bit on the goofy side, but it did serve as a nice callback for Kamala’s driving skills, or lack thereof.

    The Clandestines also seem to have a great travel agent, since they showed up in Karachi just a day or so after Kamala got there. Presumably they escaped DODC as soon as they were brought in, and then…used their immortal supervillain credit cards to book a direct flight?

    It’s a bit of an elision, but not that serious of an issue.


    Spoiler: A Minor Disappointment
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    Sadly, the location shooting was done in Bangkok rather than Karachi itself, for financial reasons as well as other factors we can’t discuss here.

    That said, the feel was still excellent, and it seems to have been very well received by viewers who know the culture. I didn’t know eating biryani from a bag was a thing, but now I want some.



    They threw a major curveball in today’s final scene, so I’m avidly waiting for more.

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    [QUOTE=Palanan;25505026]
    Spoiler: Djinn & Sonic
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    Loved the introductory fight between Kamala and Red Dagger, especially their back-and-forth roasting. I wasn’t expecting Aramis Knight, but it’s great to see him again, and I’m getting just a hint of a potential love triangle.

    In the meantime, you’d think that yet another Secret Society Devoted to Protecting the World from Unseen ThreatsTM would be a bit much, but this particular society is at least integrated into the underlying mythology of the show—and I loved that map of the noor-world.


    Spoiler: Secrets
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    I'm guessing secret societies are like finches in the MCU. There's dozens of them that are all meant to protect from different threats because if there can be literally tens of thousands of species Passerines there can be dozens of unseen threats that plague the Earth. Would prefer a different kind of premise at some point but it seems they did it well enough.
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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    At this point, there should be a What If episode, or similar, where a new unseen mystical thousand year old threat shows up, and twenty secret societies and government agencies show up, all thinking it's theirs.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Spoiler: Djinn & Sonic
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    Loved the introductory fight between Kamala and Red Dagger, especially their back-and-forth roasting. I wasn’t expecting Aramis Knight, but it’s great to see him again, and I’m getting just a hint of a potential love triangle.

    In the meantime, you’d think that yet another Secret Society Devoted to Protecting the World from Unseen ThreatsTM would be a bit much, but this particular society is at least integrated into the underlying mythology of the show—and I loved that map of the noor-world.

    More of a love quadrilateral, what with Bruno, Kamran and Kareem all taking an interest in Kamala. Really, for a girl that would more accurately be described as cute rather than beautiful, Kamala is quite the boy magnate.

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    Also, calling them a "secret society" might be giving them too much credit. From what we've seen it might just be a dude and his son cosplaying in the weekends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    At this point, there should be a What If episode, or similar, where a new unseen mystical thousand year old threat shows up, and twenty secret societies and government agencies show up, all thinking it's theirs.
    I would cut them all slack when they are non-US based. At this point what this achieves is more verosimilitude and internal consistency (in density of superpowered people around the globe), not less.
    "Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"

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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    Wow, for a show that was desperately short on runtime, that was a truly wild use of half an episode and an even wilder ending for a threat.

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    That was weird. Ten minutes before te end, I thought "huh, that was a short season". It really does seem like almost everything is wrapped up.
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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    That was weird. Ten minutes before te end, I thought "huh, that was a short season". It really does seem like almost everything is wrapped up.
    Indeed. This is one of the few shows where I have no idea where it is going next.

    Think we will get a Brie Larson cameo to close this out? And will it be any better than the one in Kenobi last week?
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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    Also, who the heck is authorizing Damage Control? Who thought it was a good idea to blow up a building to stop a moderately dangerous martial artist? (I really doubt they know anything more about the guy.)
    Resident Vancian Apologist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Also, who the heck is authorizing Damage Control? Who thought it was a good idea to blow up a building to stop a moderately dangerous martial artist? (I really doubt they know anything more about the guy.)
    My fear is they're running wild, just like SWORD and SHIELD before them and will have to be shut down, just like SWORD and SHIELD before them, because this is the MCU and anyone who suggests that maybe there should be some limitations placed on superheroes is secretly (or not so secretly) evil, or rather EVIL!

    Though, since they were introduced like one movie ago, my actual guess is that eviler female agent is going to prove to be exceeding her authority/it was an accident when the drone was damaged and will be hauled away for causing damage, rather than controlling it (maybe with some variant of that line) by moderately less evil male agent. They'll save revealing Damage Control is actually entirely evil for a few shows/movies down the line (though SWORD was brought into the MCU and revealed to be evil in the same show, so maybe not).

    If they want to preserve Damage Control's menace, after they get chumped by the Djinn, who are the least impressive bad guys in the MCU (which is saying something), I'm guessing they'll reveal that they were allowed to escape, but with trackers, so they could figure out more. That would be terribly stupid, but it's my guess. Eviler agent did it all and gets hauled away in handcuffs after failing to murder Kamala's family, with Kamala saving them.

    Alternatively, if the person with Kamran dies, that might spark some good old fashioned confusion and conflict between the characters, maybe we can get that MCU mirror battle after all...

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    Default Re: Ms. Marvel

    Yeah, the Djinn were just criminally wasted.

    I mean, why even call them Djinn when they... don't do anything. Djinn are interesting mythological creatures, and they shouldn't be hard to make terrifying, even if you keep them entirely human-looking. Sure, Kamala is (part) Djinn, but still.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    So, enjoyable episode overall, but strongest in the first half, which was beautifully done. The second half was rather rushed and confusing, as if limitations of time and budget finally caught up with them.

    Spoiler: Love & Wobbles
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    The family history embedded within the trauma of national history was as superbly done as ever, but it feels like they spent all their effort on that part, with the superheroics and family reconciliation rather hastily penciled in at the last minute. This show has always been strongest when it focuses on Kamala’s family and culture, with the superhero aspect sometimes feeling secondary, but here it’s firmly on the back burner.

    Sadly, the CGI at the end of this episode was badly wanting, especially when Kamran’s mother and the other Clandestine were fried by the dimensional rift. The CGI should’ve stopped with the carbonization; adding the skeletons just looked cheesy.

    It was also downright confusing. Why was the rift forming then? Why was it suddenly inimical to the Clandestines? Why, after decades of hunting for a way home, didn’t they foresee this danger? And what exactly did Kamran’s mother do when she transferred [something] to Kamran on the other side of the planet?

    Lovely in the first half, wobbly in the second. Now it’s a question of whether they can stick the landing.

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Yeah, the Djinn were just criminally wasted.

    I mean, why even call them Djinn when they... don't do anything. Djinn are interesting mythological creatures, and they shouldn't be hard to make terrifying, even if you keep them entirely human-looking. Sure, Kamala is (part) Djinn, but still.
    From an in-show perspective they don’t have access to their powers. From a meta perspective they needed to be beatable by a single 16 year old girl who can’t control her powers.

    I agree that they came out as pretty weak, but I get why they had to be.

    And as Palawan said, the superhero element of this definitely feels secondary to the family story. Take away Kamala’s powers and remarkably little changes.

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    From an in-show perspective they don’t have access to their powers. From a meta perspective they needed to be beatable by a single 16 year old girl who can’t control her powers.

    I agree that they came out as pretty weak, but I get why they had to be.

    And as Palawan said, the superhero element of this definitely feels secondary to the family story. Take away Kamala’s powers and remarkably little changes.
    I get all that. I totally agree that the family story is far better too. It's more, at this point I'm wondering... why include the other Djinn at all?

    Wouldn't the story be better if they weren't in it? Kamala develops some uncontrolled powers, has visions (as she did) and travels to Pakistan to ask her grandmother about it. If you really need her to fight someone, Damage Control is right there.

    Save the Djinn for season two, nothing really changes.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranxerox View Post
    More of a love quadrilateral, what with Bruno, Kamran and Kareem all taking an interest in Kamala. Really, for a girl that would more accurately be described as cute rather than beautiful, Kamala is quite the boy magnate.
    To be fair 2 of the 3 only took interest in her after she got super powers. That is totally believable to me.


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    I am curious at this point though what it was Aisha did that made everyone in the entire family afraid to talk about her. Rumors swirl from the IluminAunties about her having murdered someone or having started multiple families. But even Kamala's mother refuses to talk about her.... but in the end we see the history for ourselves and the only thing that happened is she got separated from her family during partition, and was never seen again. (at least from their perspective, nobody living would have any idea Aisha was stabbed to death that night). That is a tragedy, but not an embarrassment or shame that nobody should be willing to tell a curious child, especially when they do talk openly of Partition and of Nani's story during it.

    It was also downright confusing. Why was the rift forming then? Why was it suddenly inimical to the Clandestines? Why, after decades of hunting for a way home, didn’t they foresee this danger? And what exactly did Kamran’s mother do when she transferred [something] to Kamran on the other side of the planet?
    I was also confused by the rift forming then, as I would have hoped/assumed it was something that could only be done intentionally. But as far as the thing with Kamran... Kamran was actually the age he presented as, and presumably part human. That tie to Earth should have given him the same potential as Kamala. Perhaps whatever she did was similar to what Aisha did at the end that eventually let Kamala take up the bangle. She somehow unlocked his access to the magic, giving us a mirror of Kamala with a similar powerset. I am hoping this is them setting him up as a villain who blames Kamala for the death of his family, and not as a sidekick.
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