Percy Jackson Mafia 2

[Batcathat]

Well, that sucks. Sorry Rogan.

The vote count doesn't quite match what I have in my sheet, but I might've forgotten to keep it updated. Will double-check. Either way, it's nothing that would change the result.

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Someone more aware of the voting recalls wether AV had three or two people on her?

I thought there were three but uuuuuh... This kinda hard counters that.

Yeah, I had AV, Xi and BW, but like I said I might've missed something.

[AvatarVecna]

I'll clarify a bit later when I'm not on mobile.

AvatarVecna

Timestamp.

[Batcathat]

Even with AV having removed their selfvote, my sheet and the vote count don't quite make sense. Figuring that out might be a fun night time activity for me, but I'm guessing user error is more likely than someone screwing with the votes.

[Xumtiil]

Ooooh, sneaky. Hence you thought I noticed and with you gone, the AV wagon was even less interesting to stay on.

Even with AV having removed their selfvote, my sheet and the vote count don't quite make sense. Figuring that out might be a fun night time activity for me, but I'm guessing user error is more likely than someone screwing with the votes.

D1 vote screwing would not be a thing, I think. There are vote screwers in the game, but they need a night action to target someone to do it.

[Batcathat]

Okay, I think I figured it out (to no one's surprise, it turned out it was my fault), for some reason I had mixed up BW and Valmark when entering Valmark's votes on Cao and AV, which screwed everything up.

With that comedy of errors out of the way, we resume our regularly schedualed wolf hunting.

[Valmark]

Timestamp.

Mmm.

I'm not sure crossing the vote without telling anybody is a nice move for a Greek (unless I missed you saying it, in which case I'm just dumb).

[Snowblaze]

There's Apollo: Well Loved, but with AV ending the day with no vote the total number of voted equals the total number of voting players so that doesn't seem to have had an effect.

Anyway, sorry Rogan, should have defended you more but *shrug*

Reads are a work in progress, I guess, so it's question time!

- bladescape, please explain the "secret sauce" thing. Also why did/do you suspect Elenna?

- AV, why didn't you want Rogan dead?

- BCH, how has the flip changed your opinion of Elenna?

- Xumtiil, thoughts on Caoimhin and AV?

And some general ones as well:
- how many wolves were on the Rogan wagon (Batcathat, Zelphas, Elenna, Caoimhin, Xumtiil)?
- who's the most likely wolf of those who voted Rogan?
- who's the most likely wolf of those who didn't vote Rogan?

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Right, missed one: Valmark, who did you want to lynch at the time you said you weren't going to talk about who you wanted to lynch?

[Batcathat]

- BCH, how has the flip changed your opinion of Elenna?

Not really. Like I said to Rogan, while them being w/w was a possibility (and Rogan's defense of Elenna was one of the reasons I started suspecting him), my reasons for suspecting Elenna doesn't really have anything to do with Rogan. (Incidentally, Elenna is also my answer to your question about likeliest wolf on the Rogan wagon, but I'll have to think on the other ones).

[AvatarVecna]

- AV, why didn't you want Rogan dead?

The claim came too late to be fake. There was no time for it to accomplish much of anything. Scum!Rogan would've claimed Parent Seer at least three hours ago.

[Valmark]

Right, missed one: Valmark, who did you want to lynch at the time you said you weren't going to talk about who you wanted to lynch?

Perhaps predictably, Rogan as I thought (and still do) that it was the lynch that would be more telling about the most people (is that... A correct sentence, grammatically?).

Not really. Like I said to Rogan, while them being w/w was a possibility (and Rogan's defense of Elenna was one of the reasons I started suspecting him), my reasons for suspecting Elenna doesn't really have anything to do with Rogan. (Incidentally, Elenna is also my answer to your question about likeliest wolf on the Rogan wagon, but I'll have to think on the other ones).

Just to clarify... Rogan helping Elenna makes Rogan suspicious but not Elenna? (Obviously back to when Rogan's alignment wasn't known).

[Batcathat]

Just to clarify... Rogan helping Elenna makes Rogan suspicious but not Elenna? (Obviously back to when Rogan's alignment wasn't known).

What do you mean? As I think I've made quite clear, I'm definately suspicious of Elenna too (and has been since before I started suspecting Rogan).

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Are you asking if Rogan's defense itself made me more suspicious of Elenna? I don't think it did, though if Rogan had flipped wolf I would likely have reevaluated that stand, obviously.

[Valmark]

Are you asking if Rogan's defense itself made me more suspicious of Elenna? I don't think it did, though if Rogan had flipped wolf I would likely have reevaluated that stand, obviously.

Yeah this one. I figure if a player defending another player makes you suspicious of one it should have also made you (more) suspicious of the other (keeping in mind that Rogan's alignment was unknown at the time).

[Snowblaze]

The claim came too late to be fake. There was no time for it to accomplish much of anything. Scum!Rogan would've claimed Parent Seer at least three hours ago.

Not... necessarily? There were multiple people around and not voting the counterwagon and enough time for those people to switch their votes if they'd decided to do so.

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Yeah this one. I figure if a player defending another player makes you suspicious of one it should have also made you (more) suspicious of the other (keeping in mind that Rogan's alignment was unknown at the time).

Mildly disagree. BCH's Rogan suspicion was partially dependent on their Elenna suspicion, but their Elenna suspicion is independent of Rogan's alignment.

Elenna, thoughts on BCH?

BCH, give me one townread/lean with a reason.

[JeenLeen]

We had a lot of night chat last game, but unless that's become the common gameplay style while I've been gone the last year, I recommend against it this game. At least early this game.

I feel like it made sense in a mostly vanilla game, but seems riskier for Town this game.

[Batcathat]

BCH, give me one townread/lean with a reason.

I think the best I can come up with right now is you, with the very scientific reasoning of generally seeming like your townself. Maybe AV, but that's pure gut feeling at the moment, and my gut is kind of an idiot.

We had a lot of night chat last game, but unless that's become the common gameplay style while I've been gone the last year, I recommend against it this game. At least early this game.

I feel like it made sense in a mostly vanilla game, but seems riskier for Town this game.

I'm fine with keeping the night talk to a minimum if that's the consensus (it seems to kinda vary from game to game), I'll be busy for part of the night anyway.

[Xumtiil]

T
- Xumtiil, thoughts on Caoimhin and AV?

And some general ones as well:
- how many wolves were on the Rogan wagon (Batcathat, Zelphas, Elenna, Caoimhin, Xumtiil)?
- who's the most likely wolf of those who voted Rogan?
- who's the most likely wolf of those who didn't vote Rogan?

Since you called me out, I'll answer, but I think I'd rather keep chatter at night at a minimum.

- Yes. Not sure night is the right time to share.
- I think at least one, statistically. Maybe even 2. Don't know how many wolves there are, but it's about third of the people voting, so it's very likely that there's at least one wolf in there.
Other two questions I'll answer come daytime.

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I mean, everyone sharing suspicions of who the wolves are at night is being an open book for the wolves to know which players they need to be wary of and which ones they can string along.

[Book Wombat]

open book

Did you call?

[AvatarVecna]

Not... necessarily? There were multiple people around and not voting the counterwagon and enough time for those people to switch their votes if they'd decided to do so.

AFAICT the counterwagon was purely "Cao has done a bit of waffling". That's barely a case at all. And it doesn't help that, when I asked for a reason to vote Cao with 12 minutes to go, it took you 9 minutes to press a single button to bring up your post analyzing Cao. Your wallpost, which itself was quoting a Cao wallpost. That was not exactly helpful for making a decision on lynching Cao over Rogan.

[Xumtiil]

Did you call?

Sshh I was subtly telling wolves I sus you and Grand Arbiter

[bladescape]

Hm.

My secret sauce is a lot less cool now.

It was "Rogan wolf gives us 2 other wolves from how the thread has been moving probably".

Cao vote was me trying to stimulate things to make sure that dead day doesn't kill vote analysis.

Just waking up rn will take a look over what I missed.

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My case (if it could even be called that) is just what I've previously stated. Voting AV for allegedly joke/meta reasons when there was already two votes on them (out of three valid votes in total) seems shady to me. I get making a whatever first vote before getting serious, but I still don't like it.

I should probably ISO Elenna myself, to see if I can find anything else, now that I think about it.

Spoiler: Elenna ISO

Show

Talked about this already, still don't think it's AI.


NAI.

NAI.

NAI.


This is what gave me my tentative townlean for reasons explained earlier. I still stand by them even if they are tentative.


Helpful. Pro-town but not necessarily towny, if that makes sense.


I could see a world where this is the opportunistic wolf on the Rogan wagon, at least one person there (assuming town!Rogan) is definitely just repeating bladescape's/my points against him. I guess the "ignoring the responses rather than the thing itself" is original and a slight counterpoint to that.

I kind of want to townread asking to be nightkilled.

Eh. Her vote movement potentially fits a pattern that's likely for a wolf but that's the only real point I have against her. There's some towny stuff but nothing I think a wolf!Elenna couldn't fake. Null, I guess?

Need to do something that isn't this game, but will be checking in intermittently until EOD. Looking forward to your Elenna ISO, BCH, and will be scrutinising it closely for hedginess.

Elenna has had no drive to change what the wagons were would be my biggest reason to poke her further.

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Which, mind you, would've been towny in a Rogan!Wolf world but we ain't there anymore.

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Sounds like its time for another round of Bladescape's Baseless Accusations.

Welcome to BBA, I'm your host.

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Other minor reads: Blades push on me felt a bit harsh and I don't think he would do this as a wolf. Going after me, sure. But not in the exact same way they did it.

I can do this as wolf tyvm.

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Either way, a last minute seer claim (even if it's a "worse" seer) feels a little bit too much like a wolf hail mary for me to want to change my vote (at least if the options are AV or Cao).

Mmmmmmmmmmm.

This might get a little narrowed eyes.

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I don't recall saying "not me".

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If i'm not a valid lynch choice either, I'd probably vote for Xumtiil. One towny moment in an ISO of reactions.

If Xum is a wolf I'm hard clearing both AV and me for having the exact same reaction to EOD wagons.

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- bladescape, please explain the "secret sauce" thing. Also why did/do you suspect Elenna?

And some general ones as well:
- how many wolves were on the Rogan wagon (Batcathat, Zelphas, Elenna, Caoimhin, Xumtiil)?
- who's the most likely wolf of those who voted Rogan?
- who's the most likely wolf of those who didn't vote Rogan?

Already done my specific questions.

I reckon 2 at most wolves on the wagon, which implies at least 2/3 of Cao/AV/Rogan were just town. Or 3/3. Or AV just didn't care as wolf and told her team not to care.

Xum or Elenna right now.

Uh I'll get back to you on the non-voters.

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I mean, everyone sharing suspicions of who the wolves are at night is being an open book for the wolves to know which players they need to be wary of and which ones they can string along.

Ah yes. "Let me kill all the people that sus me." and then not being suspected because all the people who sus them are dead.

[AvatarVecna]

Ah yes. "Let me kill all the people that sus me." and then not being suspected because all the people who sus them are dead.

I just wanna be clear: are you, bladescape, advocating for open and honest communication among townies in regards to reads and suspicions?

[bladescape]

We had a lot of night chat last game, but unless that's become the common gameplay style while I've been gone the last year, I recommend against it this game. At least early this game.

I feel like it made sense in a mostly vanilla game, but seems riskier for Town this game.

So long as we aren't stupid and reveal PR info at night we're good.

Town sharing reads post-flip is actually GOOD for town. It allows people to revise before the wolves get to silence one of the town players.

In Champs as a wolf there was a lot of power in using a town member to lead a wagon on someone, then kill them before they could get to next day because they were a good player who got tunnelled. And once they killed the person they tunnelled on they would've had the chance to revise and potentially find us.

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I just wanna be clear: are you, bladescape, advocating for open and honest communication among townies in regards to reads and suspicions?

No.

I'm advocating for sharing thoughts/indications/something during the night.

I am 100% on board with town intentionally being deceptive and lying about things, given that's like half my modus operandi.

But being silent during night is a neg for town.

[Zelphas]

Trying to process what Rogan flipping town means for everything in the last day. Hopefully we'll get a little bit more info from what happens tonight; I'll plan to post my leans in Day 2, to see where I'm at. Sorry there isn't much here.

[gac3]

Okay, all but one person has submitted their night actions, if they have any. I sent a discord reminder to the person who hasn't. Other than that, you can still change your actions up until the deadline in slightly over 8.5 hours

[AvatarVecna]

Okay, all but one person has submitted their night actions, if they have any. I sent a discord reminder to the person who hasn't. Other than that, you can still change your actions up until the deadline in slightly over 8.5 hours

Thanks for the info.

[Elenna]

Elenna, thoughts on BCH?

I haven't noticed anything from them that's particularly scummy (granted I haven't noticed anything from anyone that's particularly scummy, other than my obviously incorrect wolfread on Rogan). They've been active, which tends to get towncred from me, at least early game. Given the flip it looks bad that they didn't unvote Rogan after their claim, but to be fair I don't know if I would have unvoted Rogan either, if I'd seen the claim before EOD.

[AvatarVecna]

Open-ended question directed at noone in particular: if you were scum, who are your top three choices for the NK right now?

[Xihirli]

If BCH's reasons for not jumping off Rogan were because BCH is a wolf, that would imply that the second wagon down also had a wolf BCH wouldn't want to kill. Because as long as it's not the wolves that die, those filthy romans don't care who dies.

[Xumtiil]

If BCH's reasons for not jumping off Rogan were because BCH is a wolf, that would imply that the second wagon down also had a wolf BCH wouldn't want to kill. Because as long as it's not the wolves that die, those filthy romans don't care who dies.

Or that the Romans did notice the seer claim and decided it was a high value target.
To be honest, I thought the claim could be fake - if the Romans started the game with knowledge of a few roles town doesn't have, then that's easy to do (aka Minerva).

[Zelphas]

If BCH's reasons for not jumping off Rogan were because BCH is a wolf, that would imply that the second wagon down also had a wolf BCH wouldn't want to kill. Because as long as it's not the wolves that die, those filthy romans don't care who dies.

Bread and circuses; blood sport is good sport in Roman eyes, I suppose.