Percy Jackson Mafia 2

[Rogan]

Also kind of second-guessing my Rogan read. aorn I prefer Caoimhin to AV as a counterwagon since that has actual reasons behind it. Need a vote count.

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AvatarVecna (4): Xumtil, AvatarVecna, Valmark, Xihirli
Book Wombat (1): flat_footed
Zelphas (1): Book Wombat
BatCatHat (1): JeenLeen
CaoimhinTheCape (3): Grand Arbiter, Rogan, bladescape
Rogan (5): BatCatHat, Zelphas, Snowblaze, CaoimhinTheCape, Elenna

Also I somehow forgot to add the preface to the Caoimhin stuff but I was working on that last night and since they're now a wagon decided it would be useful to finish.

Also also is it bad that I now want to vote Caoimhin purely to make a three-way tie?

Also also also does anyone not currently wolfread Rogan, and if so why?

Agreed about the counter wagon. Having a wagon purely for the memes or cause of inertia is bad. Especially since I'm totally willing to believe AVs frustration about dying early that often. This doesn't mean I think she is town. I have no idea about her alignment, but lynching her is not the right way.

I'm not wolfreading Rogan, cause I've got a message saying they are town. Okay, more specific, a child of a geek God. Town is never mentioned anywhere. But going purely by text? I guess it would be too obvious, but since he used the 'too obvious' defense himself, he might be a bold wolf.

Making it a three way tie is good for me, obviously. And it will allow for some interesting mind games. Will I take the chance to switch to AV to survive? Will Cao do this? Is AV going to switch?

Spoiler: Answer to one question

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Nope, not going to do this.

Of course, there is also the possibility that someone else will do something to turn the tie into something else. Or one of us could be well loved (-1 vote). I claim an active power, but I can't expect you to trust me on this. So if you trust your vote on me, it's better to have me in the lead instead of creating a tie.


Any questions for me, Snow?

[Batcathat]

I'm not wolfreading Rogan, cause I've got a message saying they are town. Okay, more specific, a child of a geek God. Town is never mentioned anywhere. But going purely by text? I guess it would be too obvious, but since he used the 'too obvious' defense himself, he might be a bold wolf.

Heh, "geek God".

Nice color choice, by the way.

[bladescape]

Who is down to flip onto Xum? Cause idk if I like any of the current offerings now.

[Batcathat]

Who is down to flip onto Xum? Cause idk if I like any of the current offerings now.

Depends on the options. I'd be fine with lynching Xum over AV or Cao, but Rogan (or Elenna) would still be my first choice.

[bladescape]

Depends on the options. I'd be fine with lynching Xum over AV or Cao, but Rogan (or Elenna) would still be my first choice.

I have sus on Elenna but I refuse to D1 her because I had sus on her last game and that was town. Wanna give her a first day pass because I feel bad.

[Snowblaze]

*shrug* aorn I wouldn't vote Xumtiil but if I come out from an ISO not particularly liking him I might. I'll go do that ISO now.

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But also I really don't want to mislynch him after last game.

[Rogan]

I'm just staring at Rogan's posts and thinking "I used to know how to read this person, why am I struggling so much now?"

Fun games: UPick 2, Fallout, Craziest Idea, the original Percy Jackson are the first few to come to mind. Which implies that I like games with high activity where I'm suspected either not at all or for completely justified mechanical reasons.

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Screw it, CaoimhinTheCape. I'd expect an attempt to discredit his wagon from wolf!Rogan which I'm not seeing here.

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Also while I was ISOing Rogan I noticed Xumtiil has 19 posts and I can't remember anything they've done other than "apparently didn't get how the wolf powers work" and "voted AV for the memes".

Caoimhin, if you're around before EOD it would be really helpful if you could elaborate on your suspicions there.

Also also it turns out ties are a lot less nerve-wracking when you're not one of the tied players.

Hey, I've got a quote in my sig saying you have no idea how to read me!

Fun games, I guess the original PJ. Upick2, definitely. CI³ was nice as well, although I still would have preferred a solo survivor win. Love Letter started out as fun, but I didn't like the endgame. Wild West is better in this regards, although I still can't decide if Taffi is getting better or simply always reading me as a wolf and happened to be right this time.

I don't think I'll mind this tie. If it still is a tie? Didn't check if someone voted in-between.
Might have something to do with the fact that I was asking to be a wagon, so the only one I can really blame for the situation is me. Plus, if I die, at least it won't be a surprise.

That is a good point. He might be a wolf who has found that sweet spot between being on everyone's radar and looking like you're trying to hide. Not cause for alarm, but worth keeping in mind.

I don't love the idea of the lynch being decided by random chance, but unless someone has a good (by D1 standards) against AV or Cao, I don't think I'll be switching.

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That should be "a good case", obviously.

Why do you feel like that about ties / random results? I've heard this stance before, but I don't really get this. I think it's quite interesting to see who takes some last minute actions to influence the RNG. If anybody does.

[Snowblaze]

Spoiler: Xumtiil ISO, Part One

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AvatarVecna, because the Greek had no gum.

Predictable but NAI.

Doubting between green or blue? Try color "bleen", available now (I was going to do glue but glue gave nothing)

NAI.

Current state:

AvatarVecna (3): Xumtiil, Snowblaze, Elenna
Xihirli (1): Batcathat
Taffimai (1): Rogan
Book Wombat (1): flat_footed
Xumtiil (1): Xihirli
Zelphas (1): Book Wombat

Gac, can you confirm if votes need to be bolded? I also counted unbolded votes, but want to make sure.

This was why (I think) I mentioned gut pings from Xumtiil ages ago. It was page one and I don't think anyone had changed their votes so it could be unnecessary and a wolf trying to look helpful.

Epic distancing

Probably NAI.

I mean, first time I see someone distance themselves not from a specific person, but from the entire concept of scum.

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Of course the anger could come from having to be a Roman when your opinion about Rome is so visceral.

Probably also NAI. Though... thinking about it, doesn't distancing already imply Xihirli is a Roman? (This is a stretch but I want to say this TMIs Xihirli town if Xumtiil is a wolf.)

Oooh, wonder if we can get a unanimous AV vote D1. Would be really bad for town, even if she flips wolf we'd have learned nothing about her fellow scum, but oooh.

And I'll stick to AV until I have compelling evidence to switch. Or until I get bored of it.

Yeah, let's not do that. I could argue that this is wolfy for going out of the way to mention the vote is staying (iirc he did this later as well.)

Tsk tsk. Very lazy to just take my post without giving me any credit.

AV said stuff about this already, voting AV is not a copyrightable action.

Aww poor Rogan. Would you like me to switch to you so you don't feel left out?

As for Wombat - 2 posts in a single game day, and actually honestly responding to a question? I feel spoiled.

Gut pings for reasons I can't quite articulate.

Ok, maybe I misread the rules but I feel like I'm not on the same page as the rest of you.

I thought the wolves only had the "red powers", and town could have either of the "non-red" powers, so this entire discussion of which "town powers" would work best for wolves seems weird to me.

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Otherwise you wouldn't be scrying as a wolf if you don't have the power with the Roman parentage in front of it, no?

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Or do Romans get the red one *on top of* one of the Greek powers?

...gah. Trying to read into things like this is hard. GTH I still stand by my initial bad townread of it but...

Honestly that makes it much more likely to be a 3 man wolf team - considering that there's one that is immune at night, one that punches through banes by default, one that flips as town when killed... Plenty of difficulty there already.

Of course, I've heard that previous Percy Jackson was a town cakewalk, so it could be that Gac overshot the compensation and this is going to be a scum slaughterhouse.

An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.

Probably NAI.

I can see why I couldn't remember much Xumtiil has done: I can't find a single read in the first half of his ISO. There's wolfy stuff but there was wolfy stuff in his ISO last game and he was still town.

[Batcathat]

Why do you feel like that about ties / random results? I've heard this stance before, but I don't really get this. I think it's quite interesting to see who takes some last minute actions to influence the RNG. If anybody does.

Someone switching things around at the last minute can be interesting, even if the possibility is kinda stressing me out a little. But I don't like the possibility that it's entirely decided by chance, mostly because I prefer keeping the random element to a minimum in games and prefer to win — or lose — based on the skill and decisions of those involved. In this particular case, I'm extra concerned due to the people involved. I'd be more okay if the tie was between, say, you and Elenna.

[Rogan]

Heh, "geek God".

Nice color choice, by the way.

This totally is no typo!
Thanks, I had to try some, but I think this one is really fitting

Who is down to flip onto Xum? Cause idk if I like any of the current offerings now.

I am not sure about this. I feel like his mistake about the Roman powers would be inside of his wolf range. But I also think that he has set up a high bar for himself by his first wolf game, so it's easy to be suspicious about him. I'd feel bad about lynching him as town.
So... I'll give you a firm "maybe". But it's a significant better option than AV, I suppose.

[Xumtiil]

Who is down to flip onto Xum? Cause idk if I like any of the current offerings now.

And why would I be better than Rogan, AV or Caoimhin?

D1 is always going to suck, if there are three wagons, why try starting a fourth? (obvious self preservation is obvious)

Also, AV can easily make this a two way tie by unvoting herself.

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In fact, making it a three way tie is giving AV the choice of two people to lynch, tbh.

[AvatarVecna]

And why would I be better than Rogan, AV or Caoimhin?

D1 is always going to suck, if there are three wagons, why try starting a fourth? (obvious self preservation is obvious)

Also, AV can easily make this a two way tie by unvoting herself.

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In fact, making it a three way tie is giving AV the choice of two people to lynch, tbh.

That does sound pretty easy.

[Batcathat]

This was why (I think) I mentioned gut pings from Xumtiil ages ago. It was page one and I don't think anyone had changed their votes so it could be unnecessary and a wolf trying to look helpful.

I think Xum did basically the same thing last game though, didn't he? Of course, it would be kinda clever to establish doing something like that as town, just so you do it as a wolf.

V said stuff about this already, voting AV is not a copyrightable action.

I think it was about using the color of fools in particular.

Other than that, I mostly agree with your conclusions. There's not a lot there.

[bladescape]

There's a secret sauce to all my posts other than me being bored of no activity.

But I'll say more in night phase.

(There is night phase talk right? I've played too much over on MU where no one talks at night.)

[Snowblaze]

Spoiler: Xumtiil ISO

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I know you might forget since I've been an active player, but this is my third game. I'm going to miss things that are obvious to more seasoned players (and do stupid posts, like the derp "I got a PR" one from last game).
That being said, you're lucky I have a scum game and a town game you can fall back on, but I'm probably still going to be hard to read, at least for a little while longer (especially for Snow, apparently)

This feels like using the newness as a defence. Okay, it is that, which is... probably mildly wolfy?

I'm voting AV. I thought too many wolves would be a slaughterhouse , which is also called an abattoir. Abattoir sounds like Avatar.

That is all.

NAI.

Purple shirted eye stabber....rli.

I don't know. I'll get back to you, but it's probably as hard to rhyme for you as it is for me. We're no-rhyme-buddies.

NAI.

I don't mind - I'm just surprised I would have been the first to make that comment.

If it replaces it, I'm going to miss the "Lynch me on principle" though, so I'm going to try my hardest to lynch you on principle.

NAI.

Are you suggesting we should lynch you instead so you have time to study?

Largely NAI.

I know Rogan likes to bluff as a wolf. The only game I've played with them was as w/w buddies. I'm biased in thinking they're wolfy, but my gut says this entire book wombat / Rogan is likely overblown. That said, there's no point in me jumping to Rogan to test my wolfy suspicions - he's already the lead wagon, and I don't have (m)any other reads yet. As much as I sympathize with AV, I'm not going to switch away from them since I really don't have any better currently. Hoping to see some activity from the inactive/low posters.

First actual read of the game, in response to my question. Can't say I'm a fan. As in, I'm struggling to actually work out his read on Rogan. "I'm biased in thinking they're wolfy" implies a wolfread on Rogan (I'm assuming "they" refers to the player I asked about) but "my gut says this entire thing is overblown" implies thinking Rogan is town.

While you have a (marginal) point, I think it's more important to have a counter wagon, than it to be a really good one. Barring scum slips, there are no good D1 wagons, and having a wagon, a counter, and some more votes going around applying pressure is the best you can hope for. Considering how your wagon came to be, I'm expecting you to flip town, and honestly I'm also not thinking AV is genuinely a Roman, but I feel like AV a bit in a sense that the game only truly starts being interesting/solvable D2. All this conversation is nice, but without any irrefutable statements from the GodGac, everything is both innocent and suspicious.

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Quoting the section I'm replying to

Okay, so this clearly states a townread on Rogan. That's fine. Less a fan of the passive acceptance that he has no wolfreads and town is probably going to die day one.

I feel like discussing about whether or not to discuss the strategy is a strategy.

Welcome to werewolf. Everything is a strategy. (I don't think the strategy of discussing discussing whether or not to discuss the strategy is AI.)

Also, lynching on principle. There are very few good reasons to vote for anyone D1, and I have noticed I do suffer from D1 vote inertia. There needs to be a last ditch claim to save someone, only for that someone to kill me in a standoff all the way at the end.

Actually come to think of it, maybe Snow is the better wagon?

Lol, but also no. That last thing is along the lines of something town!me might say but I don't think I really believe a townread there.

Yeah. Not great. Second-guessing myself, need to compare and contrast to previous games.

Xumtiil, please clarify who "they" was in your reply to my question about Rogan.

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And why would I be better than Rogan, AV or Caoimhin?

D1 is always going to suck, if there are three wagons, why try starting a fourth? (obvious self preservation is obvious)

Also, AV can easily make this a two way tie by unvoting herself.

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In fact, making it a three way tie is giving AV the choice of two people to lynch, tbh.

Because I now have a townlean on Rogan, there are still no actual reasons to kill AV and... eh. I don't really know if I want to vote you over Caoimhin, but the wagon wasn't my idea so I'm not the one who has to justify it.

And maybe you're right about day ones, but imo we still have to at least try to kill wolves. Because if everyone just accepts D1 sucks and votes randomly then we end up with a D2 that sucks just as much. Getting people to take stances and make serious votes gives us more stuff to analyse later.

[Rogan]

Someone switching things around at the last minute can be interesting, even if the possibility is kinda stressing me out a little. But I don't like the possibility that it's entirely decided by chance, mostly because I prefer keeping the random element to a minimum in games and prefer to win — or lose — based on the skill and decisions of those involved. In this particular case, I'm extra concerned due to the people involved. I'd be more okay if the tie was between, say, you and Elenna.

Well, what can you say to sell Elenna to me?
I still disagree about the AV vote and don't see me changing my opinion anytime soon. So you would have to give me a better case with more than one hint. I have another good idea why you might want this lynch, but I'd like to hear this from yourself.

[Snowblaze]

Thanks for spotting the Fool thing, BCH.

I'm probably going to go insane trying to work out what bladescape's secret sauce is so I'm not going to try.

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I've concluded that I find Xumtiil's wolf game townier than his town game. Which probably means my wolfread on him means he's town.

So... probably not switching unless there's a strong case which takes into account meta and/or it becomes the main alternative to Rogan and AV.

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Would also appreciate someone casing Elenna, as I don't really get the suspicion there. Actually I should probably just ISO her myself, shouldn't I?

[Batcathat]

Well, what can you say to sell Elenna to me?
I still disagree about the AV vote and don't see me changing my opinion anytime soon. So you would have to give me a better case with more than one hint. I have another good idea why you might want this lynch, but I'd like to hear this from yourself.

I'm afraid that's basically it. It's D1, vague feelings and overanalyzed behavior is all we have. I am kinda curious about what you think my motives might be, but there's nothing more to it.

[Xumtiil]

That is fair, "they" referred to Rogan, and I'll re-read the thread, ISO some people and see if I can figure out somewhere my vote could be put to better use. AV at this point is capable of saving herself, and I don't see many people still hopping on to the AV wagon, more likely hopping off.

The thing about Rogan is that I'm flipflopping between them being wolfy and towny. There seems to be a lot of activity trying to save him, which is wolfy by itself, but the reasons why people started voting for him were overblown in my opinion.

[Batcathat]

Would also appreciate someone casing Elenna, as I don't really get the suspicion there. Actually I should probably just ISO her myself, shouldn't I?

My case (if it could even be called that) is just what I've previously stated. Voting AV for allegedly joke/meta reasons when there was already two votes on them (out of three valid votes in total) seems shady to me. I get making a whatever first vote before getting serious, but I still don't like it.

I should probably ISO Elenna myself, to see if I can find anything else, now that I think about it.

[Snowblaze]

Spoiler: Elenna ISO

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Lynching AvatarVecna like we should have done in Afterlife.

Also that Child of Hypnos power amuses me.

Talked about this already, still don't think it's AI.

We’ll see what colours townies flip in the future, I guess. Since this isn’t supposed to be a bastard game I figure gac is probably just using green for neutral and blue for town.

I’m not going to aim for gac to win but if I’m alive at endgame and it looks like a reasonable possibility I might consider it.
Although the idea of figuring out just the right combination of powers to kill everyone sounds fun. But we’d need the wolves’ cooperation, probably.

NAI.

Obviously you should be using these colors instead for villager, neutral, and mafia.

Oh hey look villager is conveniently blue, guess gac was right all along.

NAI.

I slept fine, thanks. How about you?

NAI.

The obvious interpretation of Book coming up with a town-friendly team first is that he’s town and thinking from a town POV about the roles. Of course, that’s obvious enough that he could be doing it on purpose as a wolf. Slight town points, I think - not enough to really matter later in the game, but enough that I don’t want to lynch Book today.


*shrug* I said I’d vote AV before the game started, so I figured I might as well go through with it.

This is what gave me my tentative townlean for reasons explained earlier. I still stand by them even if they are tentative.

Okay, as much as I'd like to get AV lynched in revenge, we should probably get a second wagon started. As such, I'll join Grand Arbiter in poking CaoimhinTheCape.

If I'm counting right, here's the current vote count:

AvatarVecna (3): Xumtiil, Snowblaze, AvatarVecna
Elenna (1): Batcathat
Taffimai (1): Rogan
Book Wombat (1): flat_footed
Xumtiil (1): Xihirli
Zelphas (1): Book Wombat
BatCatHat (1): Valmark
Caoimhin (2): Grand Arbiter, Elenna
flat_footed (1): Zelphas

Helpful. Pro-town but not necessarily towny, if that makes sense.

Well that was a lot of posts all of a sudden. I only skimmed the last page or so, it's my lunch time and I'd like to actually eat lunch instead of just playing Werewolf.
(Also speaking of timezones, EOD is 7am my time so I'm going to miss the last 6-7 hours of each day (again). Y'all need to stop putting EOD in my early morning. )


As far as I recall, at the time he was the only person with any non-meme reason behind the vote (besides Bat's vote on me, which I wasn't going to join as my name is neither AV nor Xihirli.)


I'd agree with the people who said "one power for the Child of Neptune plus three other powers" is a reasonable interpretation of this question.

I don't think Rogan jumping on the initial "slip" was necessarily wolfy, a townie asking this question could very easily not have realized that it implied four total powers.
However, I do think Rogan seems to be ignoring the "he probably read it as 3+1" responses, even though he answered some people who said that. Also it's strange that he's suspicious of Book but he's still keeping his meme vote on Taffimai. Combined, that seems to me like he's a wolf trying to get a mislynch rather than a townie genuinely searching for wolves.


I counterclaim Child of Ariadne! Lynch the liar!
(probably obvious, but this is a joke)


Abattoir Vecna is good but I also miss "lynch me on principle".

Debating between voting Rogan because suspicions versus voting AV to tie up the wagons. I guess tying the wagons and watching vote movement doesn't really work as well now that I've made it clear I'd rather lynch Rogan.


...oh look, I previewed and there were 4 more posts. Amusingly, I think AV is still one vote behind Rogan before this post, so the above still makes sense.

I could see a world where this is the opportunistic wolf on the Rogan wagon, at least one person there (assuming town!Rogan) is definitely just repeating bladescape's/my points against him. I guess the "ignoring the responses rather than the thing itself" is original and a slight counterpoint to that.

The reason was just "because he's inactive". Which wasn't true anymore at the point where I switched my vote to you, so that was another reason to move my vote.


I didn't think your initial interpretation was unreasonable in itself - what pinged me was more that you seemed to be ignoring or at least glossing over the arguments against your initial interpretation.


I would if I had any, but like you, I don't have any other suspicions.

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I'm down to be NKd, honestly, I don't really mind the less stressful speculating in dead chat, and I'd rather it be me than a townie with a more useful power.
Now, am I just saying that to hide that I actually have a really good power? Maybe! Wolves, enjoy the wine.

I kind of want to townread asking to be nightkilled.

Eh. Her vote movement potentially fits a pattern that's likely for a wolf but that's the only real point I have against her. There's some towny stuff but nothing I think a wolf!Elenna couldn't fake. Null, I guess?

Need to do something that isn't this game, but will be checking in intermittently until EOD. Looking forward to your Elenna ISO, BCH, and will be scrutinising it closely for hedginess.

[gac3]

There's a secret sauce to all my posts other than me being bored of no activity.

But I'll say more in night phase.

(There is night phase talk right? I've played too much over on MU where no one talks at night.)

Public night talk will be allowed. As well as night talk in any alignment/role based chat.

[Rogan]

And why would I be better than Rogan, AV or Caoimhin?

D1 is always going to suck, if there are three wagons, why try starting a fourth? (obvious self preservation is obvious)

Also, AV can easily make this a two way tie by unvoting herself.

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In fact, making it a three way tie is giving AV the choice of two people to lynch, tbh.

You are a better wagon than AV cause AVs wagon has no actual reason. A bit revenge for last game, a bit "they are the only counter wagon". That's bad.
Your case is not very strong either, but at least there are some arguments to vote for you. Like, you posted a lot but didn't say much. Or your confusion about the Roman power.
And lastly, saying you don't like both wagons, but simply accepting them anyway. This could come from a wolf, trying to avoid blame after a flip, while still helping this flip. Of course, you could simply struggle to get a case you find convincing. Can't blame you, it's rare to have a game start like in the original PJ. Still, I'm going to second Snow here: Resignation is not helpful.

I don't think giving AV an easy way out is a problem. In fact, I'm looking forward to see what she is going to do with this.

I'm afraid that's basically it. It's D1, vague feelings and overanalyzed behavior is all we have. I am kinda curious about what you think my motives might be, but there's nothing more to it.

Well, given my defense on Elenna, I wouldn't be surprised if you suspect a W/W situation. So your suspicions on me would strengthen the suspicions on her.
Does this make sense for you?

[AvatarVecna]

I think a key fact is being missed.

But I also think I'd like to actually get some reads in today.

[Batcathat]

Need to do something that isn't this game, but will be checking in intermittently until EOD. Looking forward to your Elenna ISO, BCH, and will be scrutinising it closely for hedginess.

Isn't hedginess basically NAI for me at this point? I should have the ISO done before EoD but it might be a few hours more, I can't use all my time at work for this game.

Well, given my defense on Elenna, I wouldn't be surprised if you suspect a W/W situation. So your suspicions on me would strengthen the suspicions on her.
Does this make sense for you?

Yeah, that's certainly a possibility, though I wouldn't rule out either of you being a wolf without the other. Are you just curious or are you building to something?

[Rogan]

Yeah, that's certainly a possibility, though I wouldn't rule out either of you being a wolf without the other. Are you just curious or are you building to something?

Well, I partly expected you to think along this lines. Your fixation on Elenna for one small thing feels strange. It's a bit too firm of a stance from you, so it's breaking my expectations.

Wolf!You might not be in the headspace of "this might be w/w" because you know this is not w/w. But I'm not sure if town would see this in such a light either.

[AvatarVecna]

AvatarVecna, because the Greek had no gum.

No gum? Can you explain?

[Batcathat]

Well, I partly expected you to think along this lines. Your fixation on Elenna for one small thing feels strange. It's a bit too firm of a stance from you, so it's breaking my expectations.

Yeah, I get that. That's part of why I was fine switching my vote to you, I think the one thing is a pretty good reason to suspect her but the situation does sort of remind me of when I found Snow making a random vote so suspicious I let it overshadow her overall towniness.

Wolf!You might not be in the headspace of "this might be w/w" because you know this is not w/w. But I'm not sure if town would see this in such a light either.

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. Why wouldn't a wolf think of accusing townies of being w/w?

[AvatarVecna]

Taff's probably the child of a Norse god or something. (Twist! The Norse are just waiting for the Greeks and Romans to kill each other before taking over).

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Lacking other clues to go on, I suspect I'll spend part of the day overanalyzing the note on gac's body.

I don't think a real hint would exist. Honestly, I think it's just a bad joke. Scumteam is usually called either Werewolves or Mafia. Rome used to be where Italy is now. The roman camp is full of italian kids. The italians kids are the werewolves/mafia. Italian Mafia. Hence, "sleeping with the fishes".

[Batcathat]

I don't think a real hint would exist. Honestly, I think it's just a bad joke. Scumteam is usually called either Werewolves or Mafia. Rome used to be where Italy is now. The roman camp is full of italian kids. The italians kids are the werewolves/mafia. Italian Mafia. Hence, "sleeping with the fishes".

Yeah, that's reasonable. One upside of me starting to obsess over Elenna and Rogan is that it kept me from overanalyzing that note.