Percy Jackson Mafia 2

[AvatarVecna]

Xumtiil knows what he did.

Said the same thing two games ago. But not last game.

- - - Updated - - -

No idea. The first D1 votes rarely stick, but there's not a lot of options right now (or rather, there are too many options, since there's no real wagon besides AV) and... well, it's AV, who always runs a risk of getting lynched on general principle, a risk that's probably doubled after the last game.

If you had to vote for someone (actually in the game) right now, who and why?

I like this post. Tentative townread.

- - - Updated - - -

Hrrmmm... Maybe the following?

- Child of Neptune: Healing Waters
- Child of Jupiter: Divine Friendship
- Child of Vulcan: Scanner
- Child of Pluto: Command the Dead

Divine Friendship means two people can always be baned, and Scanner means that it would be possible to bane more every second night. Command the Dead for utility. But now that I think about it, this setup would be better if it was for town. Huh, oops.

- Child of Neptune: Ancient Ancestors
- Child of Bacchus: Drunken Madness
- Child of Venus: Charmspeak
- Child of Vulcan: Fire

Maybe??

Slight scumlean.

[Xumtiil]

No gum? Can you explain?

I'm in to lynch AV and chew gum.

Currently not out of gum. Yet.

I'm annoyed because I'm stuck doing RL stuff and I don't have enough time between things to make substantive posts. The more I read the less I like Rogan - both of the Book Wombat reply, but also the entire interaction with AV on the coloration of the self-vote is sort of weird. Also, he's still on Taffi, which is even worse than AV in my opinion, and I feel like there's a lot of effort going on trying to save him.

Rogan

Also, I assume I'm always going to get Xihirli's D1 first vote from now until either of changes their names. Which is not going to happen. It's fine.

[AvatarVecna]

Good question. Maybe you, cause this could get a counter wagon going. Plus, it might help me at figuring out if you are townie-paranoid or just trying to steer the lynch.

Otherwise...
Not going to vote GA, cause new guy (for me).
Not wanting to vote Snow. I don't want to get her stressed out about this game. It's not optimal game play, but hey...

I think I'll have a hard time to see Elenna as a wolf, cause too obvious. Otherwise, no strong opinions right now. And the usual disclaimer of "my reads suck".

Casting shade.

[Rogan]

Yeah, I get that. That's part of why I was fine switching my vote to you, I think the one thing is a pretty good reason to suspect her but the situation does sort of remind me of when I found Snow making a random vote so suspicious I let it overshadow her overall towniness.



I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. Why wouldn't a wolf think of accusing townies of being w/w?

For town, such an accusion comes naturally. A wolf knows the other wolves, so he will never get to a natural read (exception for games with multiple wolf teams, but they are rare) of "hey, they are allies". A wolf needs to fake every read, which is stressful. And I think faking a read combining two people is harder than only considering one person. Not impossible, mind you, but harder and more stressful. So a wolf might stop at "this is wolfy" instead of going the next step "this is wolfy and here we see a connection, which makes is even worse".

Do you understand me better now?

[AvatarVecna]

Nope, not going to happen! I'm not going to vote AV out of principle.



Hmmm, how many wagons were there at this time? Maybe your only alternative was an ally? Not really buying this, so it's probably true

It's definitely 3. AV is only doing this to screw with you, personally! In fact, we conspired to drive you mad. Mad, I say!
And agreed about the white text. Although I'm now overthinking things and wondering which role would be the fool AV might have claimed to be.

I'm still unfond of this. It feels like Rogan making me out to have ulterior motives. It's casting shade, but it's reflexive, like Rogan knows that's what wolves do, and is just in the moment casting shade on me without actually having a thought process to back it up. Digging into it, and it doesn't make sense from any angle to seriously consider that I'm claiming fool in any capacity, especially given that all of this followed Xumtiil pointing out they colored their vote the exact same way. Xumtiil didn't get shaded.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean... If you want to complain about counting... I have strong feelings about the French decision to periodically throw out their system and start counting differently but tis probably not for here.



In my high school latin class we sang the Latin alphabet and it ended with what literally translates to "and from the Greek we have y and z". So I believe they adapted at least part of it.



Fun fact: beta in Latin means "beet"



To be fair there are neutral(s) whose role(s) have not been revealed and dang... A fool in that could have been cool. "Believe you are a child of this god..." But I wouldn't have known what to make a win con for a neutral with a weird power like that

gac confirming there's at least one as-of-yet unrevealed neutral in the game. Good to know.

- - - Updated - - -

It's worth noting that even this barely active version of yourself still have more posts than like half the players.

Not sure what to think of the switch. As always, changing something that's been pointed out as suspicious won't win any trust with me. But on the other hand, starting with a less serious vote and then switching after a while is classic D1 behavior. I could see a world where Elenna switches from AV to Cao both to look less suspicious and create another town wagon (in this scenario, both AV and Cao are town. Not sure how likely that actually is) but at this point I think I'm starting to tunnel on Elenna.

Regardless on Elenna's alignment and motive, I'm generally skeptical of wagons on inactive players, since they're a complete shot in the dark and even if it hits a wolf, there's not a lot to learn from it.

This almost feels like TMI that got walked back.

[Rogan]

I'm annoyed because I'm stuck doing RL stuff and I don't have enough time between things to make substantive posts. The more I read the less I like Rogan - both of the Book Wombat reply, but also the entire interaction with AV on the coloration of the self-vote is sort of weird. Also, he's still on Taffi, which is even worse than AV in my opinion, and I feel like there's a lot of effort going on trying to save him.

Rogan

Also, I assume I'm always going to get Xihirli's D1 first vote from now until either of changes their names. Which is not going to happen. It's fine.

Objection. I've cast a vote for Cao.

Also, is there a meaning to your color choice?

[Snowblaze]

I'm annoyed because I'm stuck doing RL stuff and I don't have enough time between things to make substantive posts. The more I read the less I like Rogan - both of the Book Wombat reply, but also the entire interaction with AV on the coloration of the self-vote is sort of weird. Also, he's still on Taffi, which is even worse than AV in my opinion, and I feel like there's a lot of effort going on trying to save him.

Rogan

Also, I assume I'm always going to get Xihirli's D1 first vote from now until either of changes their names. Which is not going to happen. It's fine.

Rogan is voting Caoimhin.

My Rogan read is a confused mess and I could easily be wrong so I'm not going to hard defend him here.

Need to reread the self-vote thing which was probably among the things I skimmed too briefly during catchup.

- - - Updated - - -

Lol, mindmeld. Not the sort that gets towncred though.

[AvatarVecna]

Give me a good case for Elenna and I'm willing to vote her. But I think your case for her is so weak, you might call it nonexistent.

I thought you said avoiding the wagon because Elenna was too obvious of a wolf. Now the case is so weak it's practically nonexistent?

[Snowblaze]

AV, correct me if I'm wrong but BCH's TMI would be "Elenna/you/Caoimhin all town" in that post you pointed out, right?

[Xumtiil]

Objection. I've cast a vote for Cao.

Also, is there a meaning to your color choice?

Withdrawn the comment on Taffi still being the vote, however I do feel it took very long to come off a non-player-vote.

No, I'm just having fun where I can.

[AvatarVecna]

AV, correct me if I'm wrong but BCH's TMI would be "Elenna/you/Caoimhin all town" in that post you pointed out, right?

Not quite. BCH's argument for a possible scum!Elenna explanation for the Cao vote is "Elenna is trying to avoid suspicion for the AV vote, while still voting for a townie". This makes more sense if we'd already seen that Cao flipped town, but we haven't - at this point, Cao being town is pure speculation. Scum!BCH would know though, so it seems obvious to him that a theoretical scum!Elenna would move the vote to a known townie. BCH then backtracks and ascribes this same info advantage to hypothetical scum!Elenna.

- - - Updated - - -

I ask him for three powers and get two sets of four. One Neptune power (is it even possible to choose this? Gac? Can you tell us if a Child of Neptune could pick his own power from the two options given to this parent? ) and three additional powers.

I am sitting here, wondering if this is a wolf slip, with secret knowledge of the number of wolves. Or a different interpretation of the question.

Three wolves for 15 players would be like the championship. (Oh... did I miss another match by our resident champion? I didn't check MU for some time...) So maybe a bit low for the playground and an all power game. But add in at least one neutral and the small extra power they got, it seems possible.
Four wolves is certainly a valid option as well and I think, if Book flips wolf, that's what we should expect.

I feel worse about this case, cause nobody else commented on this and my perspective is influenced by the fact that I asked the question in the first place.

Interestingly, this TMI accusation itself feels like TMI.

[Snowblaze]

Not quite. BCH's argument for a possible scum!Elenna explanation for the Cao vote is "Elenna is trying to avoid suspicion for the AV vote, while still voting for a townie". This makes more sense if we'd already seen that Cao flipped town, but we haven't - at this point, Cao being town is pure speculation. Scum!BCH would know though, so it seems obvious to him that a theoretical scum!Elenna would move the vote to a known townie. BCH then backtracks and ascribes this same info advantage to hypothetical scum!Elenna.

Right, makes sense.

I need to ISO BCH at some point, or otherwise get to something more concrete than "maybe town but I don't actually have much justification for that". But they have a lot of posts and I've spent way too much time on this already. So... maybe in night phase?

[Rogan]

I'm still unfond of this. It feels like Rogan making me out to have ulterior motives. It's casting shade, but it's reflexive, like Rogan knows that's what wolves do, and is just in the moment casting shade on me without actually having a thought process to back it up. Digging into it, and it doesn't make sense from any angle to seriously consider that I'm claiming fool in any capacity, especially given that all of this followed Xumtiil pointing out they colored their vote the exact same way. Xumtiil didn't get shaded.

Sorry, but what? I'm making fun of the notion that you only self vote to screw with Bat. I don't think anybody saw this as an attack on you. If anybody did think this: No, it's not!
About the vote color: Someone mentioned you used a nice color, so I did check it. I didn't see that Xum did the same thing. If I had, this probably would have influenced my behavior, but despite what I said about searching every post for hidden info in color codes, I'm to lazy to actually do this.

[AvatarVecna]

Ok, maybe I misread the rules but I feel like I'm not on the same page as the rest of you.

I thought the wolves only had the "red powers", and town could have either of the "non-red" powers, so this entire discussion of which "town powers" would work best for wolves seems weird to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Otherwise you wouldn't be scrying as a wolf if you don't have the power with the Roman parentage in front of it, no?

- - - Updated - - -

Or do Romans get the red one *on top of* one of the Greek powers?

In fairness, this is also what I initially thought, so while I could see a wolf posting this for towncred, I'm not inclined to scumread Xumtiil on it.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, but what? I'm making fun of the notion that you only self vote to screw with Bat. I don't think anybody saw this as an attack on you. If anybody did think this: No, it's not!
About the vote color: Someone mentioned you used a nice color, so I did check it. I didn't see that Xum did the same thing. If I had, this probably would have influenced my behavior, but despite what I said about searching every post for hidden info in color codes, I'm to lazy to actually do this.

We had literally just talked about how Xumtiil did the exact same thing. The post that informed you I had done a weird color thing was literally "I see AV is copying my vote color". How were you not aware of it?

[Xumtiil]

Need to reread the self-vote thing which was probably among the things I skimmed too briefly during catchup.

My first vote was for AV, color = fool
AV's self vote had color = fool

I poked fun at it, saying she just copied my post, Rogan jumped on it and started this entire discussion about why AV's color choice would be a fool claim, which took way too long and made no sense to me.

It's part of the reason why Rogan's vote is not color = red.

[Snowblaze]

...and now I'm back to thinking Rogan could maybe be a wolf. Eh. Let's go with "confused mess but probably dying today so I don't have to worry about it too much".

I'll stay where I am since Rogan is dying regardless of whether I switch back to him atm.

[AvatarVecna]

Saw this question and wanted to answer:

Gac? Can you tell us if a Child of Neptune could pick his own power from the two options given to this parent

They get no say on their own power. The Romans get a red power and a Greek power but the Neptune only chooses the Roman one. The Greek one is still random in that situation.

My TMI accusation of Rogan is retracted.

[Valmark]

Oh gods three new pages. Anybody has a quick rundown while I catch up in case I can't read everything before EoD?

[AvatarVecna]

Since I don't seem to get a lot of support on Elenna, I might as well switch to Rogan. With some luck, his flip might shed a little light on Elenna (and BW) too.

Towncred, but not for voting Rogan.

[Snowblaze]

Oh gods three new pages. Anybody has a quick rundown while I catch up in case I can't read everything before EoD?

Vote count is Rogan 5/Caoimhin 4/AV 3 but I expect AV to vote Rogan instead of themselves. People suggested wagoning Xumtiil but no-one actually did it.

I'm voting Caoimhin but currently have no objection to Rogan dying.

- - - Updated - - -

Towncred, but not for voting Rogan.

What is the towncred for, then?

[Rogan]

I thought you said avoiding the wagon because Elenna was too obvious of a wolf. Now the case is so weak it's practically nonexistent?

I have a weak town lean on Elenna. Good enough to not go there day 1, but that's it. Bat has a weak scum lean on her, for the same thing. But he also voiced a slight suspicion on other players. So I was wondering why he was so fixated about Elenna, despite not having a strong case and other options.

Withdrawn the comment on Taffi still being the vote, however I do feel it took very long to come off a non-player-vote.

No, I'm just having fun where I can.

Sure. But I think, I've explained this. Plus, I can't think about a reason for a wolf to stick to a non vote. Well, except in order to say it's too obvious, but *shrug*.

We had literally just talked about how Xumtiil did the exact same thing. The post that informed you I had done a weird color thing was literally "I see AV is copying my vote color". How were you not aware of it?

Nope. The post that informed me was the one I quoted, from Bat, with the white text at the bottom. The post of Xum came a bit later, while I was already writing. It's a misunderstanding and I don't see hostile intend in it.

---

I'd prefer to live, of course. But it's not my top priority at the moment. Right now, I want to avoid misunderstandings and give you a chance to engage with me while I'm alive.
So, any questions? Fire away.
If you lynch me, you will know if I had ill intentions and can see my posts in a clear light. And, more importantly, you will see who treated me which way. Interaction is important.

[AvatarVecna]

What is the towncred for, then?

To use Rogan's word, "fixation".

- - - Updated - - -

AV - you are utterly evil.

I didn't ask at the time, but what was this about specifically?

[Batcathat]

I need to ISO BCH at some point, or otherwise get to something more concrete than "maybe town but I don't actually have much justification for that". But they have a lot of posts and I've spent way too much time on this already. So... maybe in night phase?

Sounds good. I should probably return the favor at some point, you feel towny enough that I just kind of assume that you are, but that's a dangerous attitude.

And speaking of ISOs...

Spoiler: ISO on Elenna

Show

Lynching AvatarVecna like we should have done in Afterlife.

Also that Child of Hypnos power amuses me.

I think I've said all I can say about this already. I do think it's a red flag, even if I can understand why not everyone would agree.

We’ll see what colours townies flip in the future, I guess. Since this isn’t supposed to be a bastard game I figure gac is probably just using green for neutral and blue for town.

I’m not going to aim for gac to win but if I’m alive at endgame and it looks like a reasonable possibility I might consider it.
Although the idea of figuring out just the right combination of powers to kill everyone sounds fun. But we’d need the wolves’ cooperation, probably.

Obviously you should be using these colors instead for villager, neutral, and mafia.

Oh hey look villager is conveniently blue, guess gac was right all along.

I wonder if AV knew what they started when they mentioned that word color thing in the pregame chat?

I slept fine, thanks. How about you?

The obvious interpretation of Book coming up with a town-friendly team first is that he’s town and thinking from a town POV about the roles. Of course, that’s obvious enough that he could be doing it on purpose as a wolf. Slight town points, I think - not enough to really matter later in the game, but enough that I don’t want to lynch Book today.


*shrug* I said I’d vote AV before the game started, so I figured I might as well go through with it.

Like I said earlier, I disagree a little about the conclusion on BW, but there's nothing wolfy about the reasoning, I think. Not sure I agree with Snow about it looking actively towny, but maybe I'm just having some tunneling bias.

Okay, as much as I'd like to get AV lynched in revenge, we should probably get a second wagon started. As such, I'll join Grand Arbiter in poking CaoimhinTheCape.

If I'm counting right, here's the current vote count:

AvatarVecna (3): Xumtiil, Snowblaze, AvatarVecna
Elenna (1): Batcathat
Taffimai (1): Rogan
Book Wombat (1): flat_footed
Xumtiil (1): Xihirli
Zelphas (1): Book Wombat
BatCatHat (1): Valmark
Caoimhin (2): Grand Arbiter, Elenna
flat_footed (1): Zelphas

I've commented on this already. A lot of interpretation obviously depends on Cao's alignment. Creating another wagon is good for town (especially since AV's was basically nothing), but it could easily be a wolf trying to create competing town wagons.

Well that was a lot of posts all of a sudden. I only skimmed the last page or so, it's my lunch time and I'd like to actually eat lunch instead of just playing Werewolf.
(Also speaking of timezones, EOD is 7am my time so I'm going to miss the last 6-7 hours of each day (again). Y'all need to stop putting EOD in my early morning. )


As far as I recall, at the time he was the only person with any non-meme reason behind the vote (besides Bat's vote on me, which I wasn't going to join as my name is neither AV nor Xihirli.)


I'd agree with the people who said "one power for the Child of Neptune plus three other powers" is a reasonable interpretation of this question.

I don't think Rogan jumping on the initial "slip" was necessarily wolfy, a townie asking this question could very easily not have realized that it implied four total powers.
However, I do think Rogan seems to be ignoring the "he probably read it as 3+1" responses, even though he answered some people who said that. Also it's strange that he's suspicious of Book but he's still keeping his meme vote on Taffimai. Combined, that seems to me like he's a wolf trying to get a mislynch rather than a townie genuinely searching for wolves.


I counterclaim Child of Ariadne! Lynch the liar!
(probably obvious, but this is a joke)


Abattoir Vecna is good but I also miss "lynch me on principle".

Debating between voting Rogan because suspicions versus voting AV to tie up the wagons. I guess tying the wagons and watching vote movement doesn't really work as well now that I've made it clear I'd rather lynch Rogan.

...oh look, I previewed and there were 4 more posts. Amusingly, I think AV is still one vote behind Rogan before this post, so the above still makes sense.

Finally a meatier post, but I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm definately going back to it when/if Rogan flips, regardless if it is as wolf or town.

I didn't really find anything new, so I think my opinion on Elenna is more or less the same. I realize I might giving to much weight to her AV vote and letting it color my opinion on the rest, but I feel it's good enough for a D1 case.

Also, I thought the forum had eaten this post. Praise Zeus for the autosave function.

[AvatarVecna]

@Xumtiil I'm curious: did you actually notice, or is it just a coincidence?

- - - Updated - - -

So, the more likely explanation is the other one. I agree it's a bad habit. But I don't like AVs habit either. When I didn't want to play, I took a break. A smal one, but hey... AV on the other hand is constantly jumping into the games like there was no other choise, but either is not motivated to play or fakes not being motivated. Either you want to play, then go on and play. Or you don't want to do this, then take a break.
The same thing to a lesser degree is true about some other players, who will have single digit post counts by day 2. (Yes, I'm looking at Book right now)

I join every game so that every game is 1 player bigger. I join every game so that, if/when I get killed early, somebody who's really excited about playing and doesn't get to do it often doesn't die instead. It's a community-building habit.

[Snowblaze]

The utter evilness was because I noticed the thing you did with message headers.

On brief skim BCH's ISO is definitely hedgy but I think the fact they at least have some sort of a meaningful conclusion is mildly towny.

[AvatarVecna]

I'd prefer to live, of course. But it's not my top priority at the moment. Right now, I want to avoid misunderstandings and give you a chance to engage with me while I'm alive.
So, any questions? Fire away.
If you lynch me, you will know if I had ill intentions and can see my posts in a clear light. And, more importantly, you will see who treated me which way. Interaction is important.

Can you unpair anybody? If so, what's your reasoning?

The utter evilness was because I noticed the thing you did with message headers.

On brief skim BCH's ISO is definitely hedgy but I think the fact they at least have some sort of a meaningful conclusion is mildly towny.

*cackles*

- - - Updated - - -

While you have a (marginal) point, I think it's more important to have a counter wagon, than it to be a really good one. Barring scum slips, there are no good D1 wagons, and having a wagon, a counter, and some more votes going around applying pressure is the best you can hope for. Considering how your wagon came to be, I'm expecting you to flip town, and honestly I'm also not thinking AV is genuinely a Roman, but I feel like AV a bit in a sense that the game only truly starts being interesting/solvable D2. All this conversation is nice, but without any irrefutable statements from the GodGac, everything is both innocent and suspicious.

- - - Updated - - -



Quoting the section I'm replying to

Slight towncred.

- - - Updated - - -

Time to poke thread with a stick?

Sounds like its time for another round of Bladescape's Baseless Accusations.

- - - Updated - - -

Is AV going to switch?

For the moment, I'm happy with my vote where it is.

- - - Updated - - -

AV said stuff about this already, voting AV is not a copyrightable action.

Another good signature quote. ;-;

[Rogan]

I join every game so that every game is 1 player bigger. I join every game so that, if/when I get killed early, somebody who's really excited about playing and doesn't get to do it often doesn't die instead. It's a community-building habit.

While I can't deny that getting killed early saves someone else who might have more fun, I don't think it's a healthy way to approach to this.
But I don't think a discussion about this is useful right now, so if you have any interest, feel free to get back to me later, outside of this game.

[Xumtiil]

@Xumtiil I'm curious: did you actually notice, or is it just a coincidence?

The entire reason why I said you copied my post was because the color was the same - I figured you wanted to self vote, were mobile and it was easier to quote me, strip the quotes and post.

That you did it manually just makes it even more hilarious imo.

[AvatarVecna]

Well, I partly expected you to think along this lines. Your fixation on Elenna for one small thing feels strange. It's a bit too firm of a stance from you, so it's breaking my expectations.

Wolf!You might not be in the headspace of "this might be w/w" because you know this is not w/w. But I'm not sure if town would see this in such a light either.

...you know what, this is actually a good point. I was giving BCH towncred for fixating on Elenna since that feels like more of a townie thing to do (as opposed to waffle-wolf), but BCH is the king of refusing to wholy commit to a read.

- - - Updated - - -

The entire reason why I said you copied my post was because the color was the same - I figured you wanted to self vote, were mobile and it was easier to quote me, strip the quotes and post.

That you did it manually just makes it even more hilarious imo.

That's actually not what I was asking about. Which I suppose means the answer is "coincidence".

[Xumtiil]

That's actually not what I was asking about. Which I suppose means the answer is "coincidence".

... Which makes me wonder what it was that you were asking about. I'm sure you won't tell me right now since you're being cagey, but remind me to ask you when the game is over.