A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruftzwerg View Post
    I have a question regarding the raven form. While comparing the animal forms with each other I noticed that it is straight inferior to the eagle form. The eagle has either the same stats or better. Not a single advantage to take the raven. Which is said imho (that one form won't be picked for the contest..^^).
    So imho from a logical RAI point of view, we should argue that raven Berserk should retain their ability to speak. I mean we know that Ravens in real life and even Familiars in 3.5 can learn to speak. And the SI retains his INT score in the forms (the score important to learn and speak languages). Since even in 3.5 ravens seem to be able to produce (and learn) humanoid language sounds, the Raven Berserk should therefore also retain the ability to speak.

    It's not that I wanna build a Raven Berserk (not set on a build so far/ dunno if I will enter / still waiting for the big inspiration here). But as said, it would be sad if the Raven wouldn't get any builds just because it totally inferior and has nothing to offer.
    Raven is smaller.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    I think I have an idea...
    Spoiler: For purposes of clarity
    Show
    1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.

    Zinc Saucier Next round - TBD

    Competition's medals.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    Raven is smaller.
    I don't consider that as bonus ^^. They have the same AC, but the raven has still less dmg (due to size^^) has less speed and is overall worse imho. Raven Berserk need some love.
    Sakon & Ukon (from Naruto) Ukon can join/leave any body! *new*
    Uchiha, Itachi: Master of the Sharingan
    Orochimaru, the ultimate villain
    Papa Smurf a Redcap Lion of Talisid (ubercharger/gish)
    Hellfire Escalation Glaivelock a Killer Kobold build
    Almighty Claw of Malar monk/warlock gish (with minor DBZ-SSJ fluff)
    TO: BoBaFeat Body outside Body & Void Disciple 4 to break the game.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruftzwerg View Post
    I don't consider that as bonus ^^. They have the same AC, but the raven has still less dmg (due to size^^) has less speed and is overall worse imho. Raven Berserk need some love.
    Overall worse is very different from strictly worse. Raven has a potential asset that eagle does not.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Malphegor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    I assumed the hybrid form changed your size in this but on a reread it doesn’t seem to say that. So you can be a man sized whaleperson when not full sized whale.
    Atomic laser breath!

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Wildstag's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    I assumed the hybrid form changed your size in this but on a reread it doesn’t seem to say that. So you can be a man sized whaleperson when not full sized whale.
    You could even go Darfellan to be a whale-man-sized whale-person.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstag View Post
    You could even go Darfellan to be a whale-man-sized whale-person.
    Were-orca? Who did say were-orca? Show yourself!
    Last edited by loky1109; 2022-06-22 at 03:10 AM.
    Spoiler: For purposes of clarity
    Show
    1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.

    Zinc Saucier Next round - TBD

    Competition's medals.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    I got ideas so stupid I'm looping back to hyped

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by ciopo View Post
    I got ideas so stupid I'm looping back to hyped
    I think I'm about to submit my worst-scoring build ever.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Wildstag's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ciopo View Post
    I got ideas so stupid I'm looping back to hyped
    I think I'm about to submit my worst-scoring build ever.
    You'll be in good company!

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    As always, if anyone wants to do a collaboration, I'm all hands!

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    I've got a quasi-joke build in mind. I'm not sure whether or not it's actually valid, but if not, it'll hopefully at least be entertaining.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    My stupid build got less stupid, which is a shame.

    I also have another idea for a build that is stupid in a very different way.

    Wither way, this'll be a terrible round for me. I'm thrilled.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WeaselGuy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    I'm cooking up something for the first time in... years. I was doing something silly, then as I was formatting it, I was like "well, I'm already taking this... if I could fit that in instead, it'd open up this other thing too, but then I wouldn't have room for those things, and then that prestige class is basically worthless, and ah crap, now it's a completely different build."

    So you know, the usual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Regardless of what happened, I welcome WeaselGuy's Weasel into our little community.
    My Extended Sig!
    Mandalorian Gunslinger Avatar done by smutmulch

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruftzwerg View Post
    I have a question regarding the raven form. While comparing the animal forms with each other I noticed that it is straight inferior to the eagle form. The eagle has either the same stats or better. Not a single advantage to take the raven. Which is said imho (that one form won't be picked for the contest..^^).
    So imho from a logical RAI point of view, we should argue that raven Berserk should retain their ability to speak. I mean we know that Ravens in real life and even Familiars in 3.5 can learn to speak. And the SI retains his INT score in the forms (the score important to learn and speak languages). Since even in 3.5 ravens seem to be able to produce (and learn) humanoid language sounds, the Raven Berserk should therefore also retain the ability to speak.

    It's not that I wanna build a Raven Berserk (not set on a build so far/ dunno if I will enter / still waiting for the big inspiration here). But as said, it would be sad if the Raven wouldn't get any builds just because it totally inferior and has nothing to offer.
    If you'd like to make a persuasive argument in your build, I'm not going to stop you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ciopo View Post
    You're too nice for our own good!

    How does that interact with other rage/frenzy effects? Like if we go barbarian/berserk, can we rage and battle fury, or are they mutually exclusive?
    We'll follow the precedent set by frenzy and say you can rage and battle fury at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by loky1109 View Post
    No Nat attacks, no speeds, no NAC, no SQ and SA?
    That is correct. Your size does not change in hybrid form, either, to clarify an above question.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  16. - Top - End - #46
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Battle fury counts as rage for feats and effects that discuss rage. Don't say I never gave you anything.
    followup on this : does greater rage also increase battle fury?
    do classes that says "add this class level to barbarian level to determine rages per days" also work with berserk battle fury?

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Lightbulb Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Not a submission, but might I recommend Thrallherd for a future secret ingredient? That PrC is so ridiculously cheesable it's insane.

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Thrallherd gives a leadership effect, which is banned. It's all about that effect, too.

    Also, it's kind of the opposite of what we usually go for here: It's a very good, very focused, very obviously powerful PRC with no downfalls and is trivial to enter with a synergic entry.

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    If we talk about possible next SI I want suggest Red Avenger.
    Spoiler: For purposes of clarity
    Show
    1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.

    Zinc Saucier Next round - TBD

    Competition's medals.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a Void Disciple round yet.
    Trying to resurrect the Negative LA thread, any comment and discussion are very welcome!

    Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round III: Keep your monsters close...! Come and judge the submitted builds!
    Nice find! Have a cookie!

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a Void Disciple round yet.
    Nightmare fuel.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a Void Disciple round yet.
    I already have a totally game breaking Void Disciple build. Imho that is more than enough imho. :p


    I would prefer a crafting focused SI. Imho that would make an interesting round.
    Sakon & Ukon (from Naruto) Ukon can join/leave any body! *new*
    Uchiha, Itachi: Master of the Sharingan
    Orochimaru, the ultimate villain
    Papa Smurf a Redcap Lion of Talisid (ubercharger/gish)
    Hellfire Escalation Glaivelock a Killer Kobold build
    Almighty Claw of Malar monk/warlock gish (with minor DBZ-SSJ fluff)
    TO: BoBaFeat Body outside Body & Void Disciple 4 to break the game.

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by loky1109 View Post
    If we talk about possible next SI I want suggest Red Avenger.
    You monster.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 38. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by ciopo View Post
    As always, if anyone wants to do a collaboration, I'm all hands!
    Expound on this. Are you in need of fluff composition or hijinx advice.

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by ciopo View Post
    followup on this : does greater rage also increase battle fury?
    do classes that says "add this class level to barbarian level to determine rages per days" also work with berserk battle fury?
    Greater rage does not increase battle fury.
    Things that give you more uses of rage per day based on barbarian levels do not give you more uses of battle fury per day.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2022-06-24 at 08:47 PM.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Things that give you more uses of rage per day do not give you more uses of battle fury per day.
    Not even the feat extra rage? Is that an exception to the previous question of "it counts as rage for things that modify rage".

    Or only class feature that says to "add to barbarian levels"?

    I would split the difference between those features that says "you have X extra uses of rage per day" (increases battle fury uses) and those that says "add this class level to your barbarian level to determine rages per day". Seems to be the meaningful distinction to me

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Hm, my ideas were both based on Change Shape, not Alternate Form (as in you retain your actual ability scores, blah blah).

    And yes, it was a raven. I wanted an incredibly strong strength raven by level 20, but now that isn't going to happen. Then there was <scrubbed, probably a bit too late>.

    Think I'll attend to real life this round. I got nothing with alternate form that can't be done better with a straight wildshape ranger/barbarian1/extra rage/nature warrior/master of many forms.
    Last edited by Seward; 2022-06-30 at 04:25 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Seward View Post
    Hm, my ideas were both based on Change Shape, not Alternate Form (as in you retain your actual ability scores, blah blah).

    And yes, it was a raven. I wanted an incredibly strong strength raven by level 20, but now that isn't going to happen, especially as its size won't change to tiny. Then there was the air-breathing flying whale...which isn't very exciting if it is size medium.

    Think I'll attend to real life this round. I got nothing with alternate form that can't be done better with a straight wildshape ranger/barbarian1/extra rage/nature warrior/master of many forms.
    I guess you missed something there:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount
    Your size changes to that of the animal.
    But yeah, you are still struck with the STR 1 score of the raven.
    Sakon & Ukon (from Naruto) Ukon can join/leave any body! *new*
    Uchiha, Itachi: Master of the Sharingan
    Orochimaru, the ultimate villain
    Papa Smurf a Redcap Lion of Talisid (ubercharger/gish)
    Hellfire Escalation Glaivelock a Killer Kobold build
    Almighty Claw of Malar monk/warlock gish (with minor DBZ-SSJ fluff)
    TO: BoBaFeat Body outside Body & Void Disciple 4 to break the game.

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    It sounds like speculations.
    Spoiler: For purposes of clarity
    Show
    1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.

    Zinc Saucier Next round - TBD

    Competition's medals.

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXX

    Quote Originally Posted by ciopo View Post
    Not even the feat extra rage? Is that an exception to the previous question of "it counts as rage for things that modify rage".

    Or only class feature that says to "add to barbarian levels"?

    I would split the difference between those features that says "you have X extra uses of rage per day" (increases battle fury uses) and those that says "add this class level to your barbarian level to determine rages per day". Seems to be the meaningful distinction to me
    You know what, you're right.

    You cannot gain more uses of battle fury for things that say "add to your barbarian level to determine rages per day" but you may gain more uses through other means.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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