OOTS #1260 - The Discussion Thread

[Jacky720]

My guess as to when he found out there were other heroes? Either he remembered Durkon and pretended not to, or he invisibly listened in on Durkon's meeting with Redcloak and pretended to show up later.

Or it's just because Redcloak told him. (panel 5)

[H_H_F_F]

New MiTD info dump, or just character development? Hard to say.

Xykon's very interesting here. He's not really in his goody mood. More "power is power" mood. Wonder why...

[Mic_128]

My favorite part of the strip is that the graffiti is in the same style as the strip itself, which to me says Xykon's in-world skill level is on par with Michelangelo or da Vinci, and he just uses it for vandalization and mocking his minion.

You're not wrong. We've seen what bad art is before.

[Shining Wrath]

I think we should assume that Xykon believes himself to be as smart as he needs to be to achieve his goals. Which are, living forever and world domination. He may not actually be very smart in a book sense, but he may be a high-functioning sociopath, capable of deceiving everyone around him until he no longer needs them. He did not live long enough to become an epic level sorcerer without something that resembles intelligence, e.g., instinctive cunning. Therefore, I think it is likely that Xykon has figured out quite a bit more than he's letting on.

His plans almost certainly include killing Redcloak at the end of the ritual, and MitD as well. Redcloak has almost certainly figured that out, and has a plan to counter being murdered. MitD almost certainly has not figured that out.

[Psyren]

Soooo... Are we safe to assume that Xykon has some sort of Disintegration Finesse feat?

Disintegrate's normally a green beam, maybe it's just a different spell.

My guess is Scorching Ray. You can hit objects with it and you're not required to fire more than one beam, so etching graffiti into rocks is fair game.

You know, I can't really put my finger on it but this is the first time in a while that Xykon hasn't really come across as very funny. The vibe I'm getting here isn't playful playful maliciousness so much as just that he's horrible and doesn't really care about anything except transient self gratification. But I already knew he was like that so...?

Which is odd because some of the things he's saying feel like they are intended to be funny but they just fall flat and make me feel uncomfortable.

You were never supposed to be comfortable with him/it.

Even if that is his plan (likely not), it probably wouldn't work as he'd almost certainly be eliminated.

Right. It continues to amaze me that some people seem to think that, across all the googols of prior worlds, this notion that Xykon was the first mortal to ever come up with the idea of avoiding the reset on the Astral Plane persists, much less that he'd be the only one successful at doing so.

[Windscion]

Right. It continues to amaze me that some people seem to think that, across all the googols of prior worlds, this notion that Xykon was the first mortal to ever come up with the idea of avoiding the reset on the Astral Plane persists, much less that he'd be the only one successful at doing so.

Except that Xykon doesn't know there were more worlds than the original before this one.

[Psyren]

Except that Xykon doesn't know there were more worlds than the original before this one.

I'm not saying that he would consciously be trying to avoid that. I'm saying that anyone thinking his astral fortress would be any sort of protection (especially when the gods explicitly know about it) is likely to be wrong.

[Mic_128]

Right. It continues to amaze me that some people seem to think that, across all the googols of prior worlds, this notion that Xykon was the first mortal to ever come up with the idea of avoiding the reset on the Astral Plane persists, much less that he'd be the only one successful at doing so.

It is however also the world where the IFC have a plan involving the destruction of the world, which could keep Xykon in the game.

[Ruck]

Disintegrate's normally a green beam, maybe it's just a different spell.

Xykon's Graffiti Laser.

[Peelee]

Assuming you mean by the Gods, but scheming by the IFC could disrupt things.

Wouldn't even need to be the gods (at least, not directly). Inevitable are a thing, and having done this billions upon billions of times before, there's almost certainly some provision they have regarding plane shifters.

Not to mention that the IFCC aren't deities and are almost certainly in the "have their minds wiped" category to start with and have had it done probs quite a few times.

[Mic_128]

Not to mention that the IFCC aren't deities and are almost certainly in the "have their minds wiped" category to start with and have had it done probs quite a few times.

True, yet we know they wanted the gods to destroy the world. They wouldn't be cheering the Gods on if it meant they'd die/get their minds wiped.

[Xihirli]

Correction, what sent him in a panic was his phylactery being this close to falling into the gaping maw of a reality-rending abomination.

No, I'm counting his behavior afterwards, where he gets cold and ruthless and shouted MY FREAKIN' PHYLACTERY.

Spoiler: Start of Darkness

Show

They've already been over this, destroying the phylactery isn't enough to kill Xykon. And Redcloak is mentally incapable of trying while the Plan is still pending. Not after what he did to Right-Eye.

Edit: Also, he already has a failsafe for goblin betrayal, he's brainwashed the MitD into eating Redcloak if he ever turns against him. Which might factor into why he wants the beast hungry, now that I think about it.

And if Xykon thought that was enough, he wouldn't have snatched the fake phylactery away. He is not knowingly going to trust his phylactery to Redcloak again, ever.

Xykon isn't aware of the Godsmoot. As far as he knows, the gods haven't even tried to stop him in any way.

I never said he was, necessarily. Whether or not he knows about it, if there is a reveal of Xykon's new trick or his secret double-plan, if it doesn't account for the gods then it won't be threatening. Because WE still know.

[Xihirli]

His plans almost certainly include killing Redcloak at the end of the ritual, and MitD as well. Redcloak has almost certainly figured that out, and has a plan to counter being murdered. MitD almost certainly has not figured that out.

I don't think Redcloak's been expecting to survive a full round after the ritual is cast for years.

[Ralanr]

Once again, Xykon reminds me why he's one of my favorite villains. Sure, good villains can have great motives that make you think and sometimes agree, but there's a charm in a villain that's just not hiding behind a veil of "For the greater good" or "I'm doing what I believe is right."

He just embraces his desires to do what he wants and he wields enough power to make that utterly terrifying.

[Finagle]

So, what likes to eat? A lot? A larva. If you need an example, think of the Hungry Hungry Caterpillar.

But why would such a voracious creature stop eating? Easy. It's going into the pupa stage soon. That's what MitD means about not being so hungry lately, but it's fine.

And what comes after the pupa stage? The adult stage. Think of the Hungry Hungry Caterpillar becoming a full grown butterfly. The final form of MitD which will be horrifyingly powerful and make Xykon and Redcloak together look like 1st level adventurers.

Now I don't mean that MitD is literally going to pupate and build a cocoon and hibernate in it. We'll have to see what form it takes. But the larva -> pupa -> adult mirrors MitD's development as a thinking man, and MitD has always been treated as a child (larva). But as an adult? Whoo doggie. MitD will be able to make his own decisions. And boy, he's going to be super mad about what Xykon has done.

[Peelee]

True, yet we know they wanted the gods to destroy the world. They wouldn't be cheering the Gods on if it meant they'd die/get their minds wiped.

Which would be an excellent rebuttal if they knew they got their minds wiped. One would assume that the mind wipes also prevent them from knowing their minds were wiped, and thus not being prepared for it if the new world ends.

[Ornithologist]

You know, I can't really put my finger on it but this is the first time in a while that Xykon hasn't really come across as very funny. The vibe I'm getting here isn't playful playful maliciousness so much as just that he's horrible and doesn't really care about anything except transient self gratification. But I already knew he was like that so...?

Which is odd because some of the things he's saying feel like they are intended to be funny but they just fall flat and make me feel uncomfortable.

He normally veers between funny horrifying and just horrifying. And when things get more serious he lets the mask of funny fall off. The end of Start of Darkness comes to mind. Also, V's attack on Gobbotopia. The trend you mentioned is likely to continue as the book goes.

[Xihirli]

Which would be an excellent rebuttal if they knew they got their minds wiped. One would assume that the mind wipes also prevent them from knowing their minds were wiped, and thus not being prepared for it if the new world ends.

They're not supposed to know that there's a new world made at all, but they do. I think it's fair to assume they understand pretty much everything we do about the cosmology and process of making a new world. They have to for their plan to be threatening.

[DaOldeWolf]

I wonder why they changed the speech bubbles for the roaches. The new ones look rather nice and its a cool style but I stll have to wonder. Just stylistic changes? Will it be related to something else on the narrative? Were they made like that for the benefit of the reader?

[Peelee]

They're not supposed to know that there's a new world made at all, but they do. I think it's fair to assume they understand pretty much everything we do about the cosmology and process of making a new world. They have to for their plan to be threatening.

All of their information has come through Sabine via Nale via Shojo. I think it's fair to say they probably don't know details that were only known to the gods until well after most of their game of telephone was dismantled.

[Reboot]

I wonder why they changed the speech bubbles for the roaches. The new ones look rather nice and its a cool style but I stll have to wonder. Just stylistic changes? Will it be related to something else on the narrative? Were they made like that for the benefit of the reader?

Legibility. When all the backgrounds were flat colours, bubbleless text was no biggie. Now? Not so much.

[Fyraltari]

All of their information has come through Sabine via Nale via Shojo. I think it's fair to say they probably don't know details that were only known to the gods until well after most of their game of telephone was dismantled.

They seem to have found out about the World-Within independently of the Order. They first learned of the Gates through Nale, but I think they've got another source of information.

[gatemansgc]

I’m not sure what the Monster in the Darkness considers a “little horn,” but can we assume he’s talking about the bugbear in panel 1? He has three horns and swoopy stripes under his eyes.

ooh good catch, you might be right!

[Lord Raziere]

I'm not surprised that Xykon knows, I just wish we knew HOW he knows the information that he knows, because he kind of just....

Spoiler: SoD spoilers

Show

.....somehow magically knows that the goblins were planning on betraying him without him ever giving an explanation how in SoD, instead focusing everything on breaking Redcloak into being his evil minion. and this feels like a similar case. how did he figure out that Redcloak was planning this? when did he figure it out? its okay if this needs some retroactive explanation or flashback or whatever I just want AN explanation at all.

[Arkain]

I think it isn't the first time we've had this kind of conversation and it never stops being both hilarious and chilling.

"Why would you kill him?"
"Because I'm evil, super powerful and very bored."

[Psyren]

It is however also the world where the IFC have a plan involving the destruction of the world, which could keep Xykon in the game.

Why, because they're one big happy family? Screw that.

I can't imagine they care one way or the other about Xykon staying in the game, so long as they do.

[Fable Wright]

I'm not surprised that Xykon knows, I just wish we knew HOW he knows the information that he knows, because he kind of just....

Spoiler: SoD spoilers

Show

.....somehow magically knows that the goblins were planning on betraying him without him ever giving an explanation how in SoD, instead focusing everything on breaking Redcloak into being his evil minion. and this feels like a similar case. how did he figure out that Redcloak was planning this? when did he figure it out? its okay if this needs some retroactive explanation or flashback or whatever I just want AN explanation at all.

It's been built up for a long, long time.

Look at strip 700. Giving his half of the ritual to Tsukiko implies he doesn't trust what Redcloak's doing.

In 829, Tsukiko: "He gave it to me. Said he didn't understand how it worked and I should figure it out for him." This is more explicit, it's been highlighted multiple times now that Xykon doesn't trust Redcloak's ritual, and wants to know the details of it before he enters the final phase of the plan.

And then in 833, look at Xykon's face when Redcloak presents the ritual. Then his line: "If you had to smoke her, you had to smoke her. Hell knows I've had to off an uppity minion in my day."

Redcloak made a power play to keep his secrets. Xykon recognized that. Xykon knows that Redcloak is going to be betraying him.

I very strongly suspect that Xykon, at the final gate, is going to be asked to perform the ritual by Redcloak... and refuse.

Also drawing slapstick of kicking Redcloak's ass goes all the way back to the beginning of the comic where he views Redcloak as a kind of spineless comedic relief. I don't think this is a specific threat to Redcloak.

[Frozenstep]

Now wouldn't be a bad time to ambush Xykon, if it's possible to remotely disable the swapovers and still get to the surface. But probably still better to actually plan together, and then try to ambush Xykon within one of the caves where his flight is less of an issue and he can't teleport out.

[Xihirli]

All of their information has come through Sabine via Nale via Shojo. I think it's fair to say they probably don't know details that were only known to the gods until well after most of their game of telephone was dismantled.

Not all. They've been gathering information on Hel's plans, for instance. It seems likely to me that they're keeping tabs on the Order, and we have no reason to believe that Durkon kept the nature of the world secret from anyone in the party. They seem to be able to scry on Vaarsuvius effortlessly, even when they're inside a Cloister.

[warmachine]

The MitD regarding dwarves as a delicacy is almost certainly a red herring. Not only could Xykon be mistaken, the comic establishes he doesn't bother with unimportant details, making misremembering likely.