A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 91 to 120 of 313
  1. - Top - End - #91
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ruck's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGriffin View Post
    Also, my personal opinion on the "no longer hungry" thing was that it was some kind of emotional change, in that MitD no longer has to fill an emotional emptiness with constant eating since he now has his own self-determined goals that he's working towards.
    This one makes the most intuitive sense to me, particularly once you consider "Sometimes, I eat to fill the loneliness."

    I'm not confident enough to have certainty about it, and I'm open to other explanations and if further details reveal more, but it makes sense to me just on that level.

  2. - Top - End - #92
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Taelas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    If it's not a D&D monster, under what criteria could we consider it "possible to guess"? A big reason for focusing on D&D 3.5 is that those are the rules OOTS operates under, and so we can readily study various monsters' powers under those rules to see if they fit what we've seen from MitD. If it's not a D&D 3.5 monster, perhaps it could be guessed, but far more would be open to interpretation about how its powers would translate into this setting.
    Possible is a long way from being easy. The context for that quote was, "I.e. I didn't make it up." As long as its abilities are based on lore about the creature, it fits just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    And that's the flipside of it, really. It's easy to poke holes in various cases for monsters, but it's much harder to come up with a better fit than what's been proposed already.
    But that's the main problem. There is no good fit. Protean is a copout, since it doesn't actually have any innate ability that it could "dig deep and find" to help the escape—aside from what is basically a mulligan—and completely ignores the main physical characteristics the creature possesses in order to jump through hoops in to try and make it fit. Protean is just the most malleable creature that can be massaged to cover the most bases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Aside, since I'm thinking about it: Are there any creatures with Wish as an extraordinary ability? Part of me thinks that's the best fit for the Escape, since V and O-Chul literally land on top of Hinjo, and it's very easy for me to picture MitD wording a Wish like "I want to send O-Chul and his elf friend back to their paladin friends." Of course, it's also not too hard to picture MitD using detect thoughts or some other similar ability to read V's mind to figure out where they came from, then use Greater Teleport or what have you, and the direct landing is just an extra punchline.
    There are several, but for various reasons, they don't fit. It's through shapeshifting into one of them that Protean gets around the escape scene. I fully agree that wish or miracle is the best fit for the escape, but just like Protean, they're also the most broad. It's somewhat better, though, since they wouldn't be finding a different ability somewhere else, and there isn't any other ability that really fits that we know of.

  3. - Top - End - #93
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ruck's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Taelas View Post
    But that's the main problem. There is no good fit.
    It's not supposed to be so obvious that we all figure out what MitD is years before the reveal. If you find a good fit, propose it. Until then, I'm putting my money on the best fit I've found given the possibilities I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taelas View Post
    Protean is a copout, since it doesn't actually have any innate ability that it could "dig deep and find" to help the escape—aside from what is basically a mulligan—
    That ability-- to "assume the shape of any combination of physical nondeific creatures at the same time as a free action" and "[gain] the advantage of up to four extraordinary abilities from the forms it mimics"-- is an innate ability. It doesn't not become one because you think it's too powerful or broad. I mean, the Monster in the Darkness is supposed to be preposterously powerful, given how two quite powerful creatures themselves in Xykon and Redcloak speak of him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taelas View Post
    and completely ignores the main physical characteristics the creature possesses in order to jump through hoops in to try and make it fit.
    How so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taelas View Post
    There are several, but for various reasons, they don't fit. It's through shapeshifting into one of them that Protean gets around the escape scene.
    I just wanted to make sure they existed, because then my thoughts on the most likely specific explanation as to how the Escape scene played out also fits for a Protean.

    EDIT: Apparently this is far from the first time I've inquired on this topic. In fact, it was one of the very first things I asked about in my early days posting here, after getting caught up on the MitD discussion:

    https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...postcount=1283
    Last edited by Ruck; 2022-06-23 at 04:09 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #94
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Schroeswald's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2019

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    To this day the only argument against the protean that has actually been convincing to me is that getting that teleport ability is awkward and it’s not a perfect fit. However every other possibility has a a stronger argument against it than that.
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  5. - Top - End - #95
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Taelas View Post
    More likely, I think, is a relatively obscure monster that isn't a D&D creature at all. Relatively obscure because it hasn't been narrowed down to one that happens to fit. I don't have a suggestion myself, it just seems far too narrow to focus on creatures from D&D when I don't think any of the requirements warrants it.
    We are not "focusing" on D&D creatures at all. You are free to propose any creature you want. We have a non-D&D creature in the FBS list, for Heaven't sake.

    GW
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  6. - Top - End - #96
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ruck's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    To this day the only argument against the protean that has actually been convincing to me is that getting that teleport ability is awkward and it’s not a perfect fit. However every other possibility has a a stronger argument against it than that.
    Right. I mean, I'm fine with it because an explanation exists that fits into the rules as written, but the bolded is really important. So much more has to be stretched or even outright discarded for every other candidate to fit. (And that's before we get to the thematic resonance to the story, where the Protean is really the only monster I've found that actually carries any such resonance with the Monster's character arc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    We are not "focusing" on D&D creatures at all. You are free to propose any creature you want. We have a non-D&D creature in the FBS list, for Heaven't sake.

    GW
    And that's the other thing. People are free to propose and suggest whatever they want. It's hard to find good fits, but no one is stopping anyone from trying. It's certainly easier to say what you think it can't be than what you think it can, though. And there's probably a reason, at this point, why it's so hard to find good fits that haven't already been proposed.

    My position is pretty simple. I've found the Protean to be by a significant margin the best fit for the MitD, and I've explained why at length. I'm open to hearing new ideas if someone finds a genuinely good fit. I'm open to responding to arguments or evidence against the Protean or against the ideas I've laid out as to why I think that's the answer.

    But I don't put too much stock in people simply asserting it's a bad fit without argument or evidence. Or people declaring it doesn't "feel right" to them for some reason that has nothing to do with the criteria we know ("it's too powerful," "it's not iconic / instantly recognizable enough," "it will be obvious when we figure it out so we must not have figured it out yet," etc.). Or people outright misrepresenting what it can do (the repeated cases of people insisting it's a complete shapeshifter that can do anything, for example).

  7. - Top - End - #97
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Most people keep on focusing on monsters published in D&D sourcebooks, and I really think that's a dead end, especially with regards to the more obscure D&D monsters. Rich never said that Monster-San existed in D&D before he put him in the story; he just said that he existed. And he's been working for a long time at making the comic accessible to folks unfamiliar with D&D: When Monster-San is eventually revealed, it's going to be something that most of the readership, not just the D&D players, will be able to go "Oh, OK, it's <one of those>!". Now, some monsters that pre-existed D&D have made it into the rulebooks, but those are mostly going to be found in the first volume, and I think we've pretty well settled that none of those are a good fit. So I think it's likely that he's not in any D&D rulebook at all.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  8. - Top - End - #98
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Schroeswald's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2019

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Of the three biggest scenes of evidence on what the MiTD is the Protean is far and away the best fit for two of them. Nothing comes close to working as well in the circus and we’ve found nothing that is all that close in strength to the protean, especially at the size the MiTD currently is, making it the best fit for the tower scene. While I am inclined to label the Escape Scene as more important than those the Protean still fits okay enough there as well.
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  9. - Top - End - #99
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2022

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Barghests gain strength as they eat others. "For every three suitable corpses a barghest devours, it gains 1 Hit Die, and its Strength, Constitution, and natural armor increase by +1". ([snipped link]
    (Once they reach 27 such corpses, they evolve into a greater Barghest, weirdly losing strength in the process).

    To be clear, like I said earlier, barghest have multiple issues - no teleportation, no real explanation for the circus scene, and even at 28 corpses, it's strength is 25, which is nothing to write home about.

    ETA: I am unsure what version Eric the White is talking about, but [snipped link] don't seems to come with stats, so not sure how they differ from the d20 srd one which is my usual go-to for official versions of monsters.

    GW
    That is the version/source I'm talking about, but you can also see Dragon issue 26 in a PDF scan online. I think it works because seeing something that looks like you turning into a wolf like creature can be disturbing. Think about how humans feel about the scenes where we see them turning into werewolves. He's particularly disturbing to a audience of goblins. He might not get the same reaction from a group of adventurers, or us when we finally see his form and fail to be repulsed just due to the limits of the medium. Also in that source it says they get access to numerous spell like abilities, but don't list them all. One could be teleportation. The source also talks about a greater barghest (which the MitD's father would have to be given the life cycle) needing to be housed in a holed out mountain because he's so big, yet the lesser ones are medium. I think the lack of stats actually helps the case here because the strength can be whatever the Giant wants it to be without him breaking the published "rules."

    Sorry for the lack of links, I dont have that permission yet.

  10. - Top - End - #100
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crusher's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The sticks
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the White View Post
    That is the version/source I'm talking about, but you can also see Dragon issue 26 in a PDF scan online. I think it works because seeing something that looks like you turning into a wolf like creature can be disturbing. Think about how humans feel about the scenes where we see them turning into werewolves. He's particularly disturbing to a audience of goblins. He might not get the same reaction from a group of adventurers, or us when we finally see his form and fail to be repulsed just due to the limits of the medium. Also in that source it says they get access to numerous spell like abilities, but don't list them all. One could be teleportation. The source also talks about a greater barghest (which the MitD's father would have to be given the life cycle) needing to be housed in a holed out mountain because he's so big, yet the lesser ones are medium. I think the lack of stats actually helps the case here because the strength can be whatever the Giant wants it to be without him breaking the published "rules."

    Sorry for the lack of links, I dont have that permission yet.
    Eh. MitD is particularly *not* disturbing to the goblins. The human-looking folks are the ones feeling weird and queasy while the goblins are cheering. Maybe because they’ve seen him repeatedly, but we don’t know. Also, lack of published stats is a double-edged sword. Sure, you can interpret it however you like, but it makes getting the fluff dead-on accurate really important, because that’s all you’ve got, right? The MitD isn’t “strong”. It’s “awesomely, earth-shatteringly strong”. So if you lack stats and the description says the creature “can get really strong”, convincing people that it’s even in the ballpark is going to be a heavy lift, so to speak.

    Worth noting that a Greater Barghast can have a STR of 29, which doesn’t quite get there but is close.
    Last edited by Crusher; 2022-06-23 at 09:44 AM.
    "Its a setting less visitor-friendly than the Red Wedding." - 111balz

  11. - Top - End - #101
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2022

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Eh. MitD is particularly *not* disturbing to the goblins. The human-looking folks are the ones feeling weird and queasy while the goblins are cheering. Maybe because they’ve seen him repeatedly, but we don’t know. Also, lack of published stats is a double-edged sword. Sure, you can interpret it however you like, but it makes getting the fluff dead-on accurate really important, because that’s all you’ve got, right? The MitD isn’t “strong”. It’s “awesomely, earth-shatteringly strong”. So if you lack stats and the description says the creature “can get really strong”, convincing people that it’s even in the ballpark is going to be a heavy lift, so to speak.

    Worth noting that a Greater Barghast can have a STR of 29, which doesn’t quite get there but is close.
    Man I was misremembering that scene. I was thinking it was all goblin attendees. good catch. On the other stuff, I suppose I may have a slightly different expectation of how "perfect" the Giants reveal is going to be. He's never really shown a huge fidelity to the rules of D&D. I don't think the monster is going to perfect in the sense that it was this thing that (1)we all know about and (2)matches the published rules perfectly and (3)few/none of us guessed it. There's going to be some slop in one or more of those things. I don't believe he will be able to show us something that causes us to "recoil in abject horror" both because of the cartoon nature, and because we the readers generally view him favorably and will judge him based on that, as well as his appearance. I expect similar grey area in his stats/rules/ and how well the monster matches the big scenes.

    I what I do expect is that his reveal will be pretty epic and will serve the story and not some sourcebook.
    Last edited by Eric the White; 2022-06-23 at 10:14 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #102
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bristol, UK

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Of the three biggest scenes of evidence on what the MiTD is the Protean is far and away the best fit for two of them. Nothing comes close to working as well in the circus and we’ve found nothing that is all that close in strength to the protean, especially at the size the MiTD currently is, making it the best fit for the tower scene. While I am inclined to label the Escape Scene as more important than those the Protean still fits okay enough there as well.
    The biggest problem with the protean is the eyes. The MitD has two eyes in the same place all the time. The protean boils, and grows eyes all over at random. That is not a good fit.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  13. - Top - End - #103
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    For the voting put me down for Neh-Thalggu for now. I may change my mind later.

    Now to engage in a bit of "throwing mud at the wall" on other possibilities:

    I also like the suggestion of an Inverse Template earlier, I've suspected he's some kind of template for a while but i've never seen a template monster combo i like enough to go "thats it".

    Also random aside question, what happens to gods when they die in D&D, are there any remenant types that could produce somthing like the MitD?

  14. - Top - End - #104
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    A Michigan Far, Far Away
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Gee, #1260l got me flustered.

    So, should we or should we not start looking for creatures who prefer eating dwarves? Xykon "thought he read it somewhere" but MitD himself doesn't think he finds dwarves a delicacy. Then again, there are a lot of things he doesn't know about his own species (including what species he is).

    Is this a clue, or not?

    There's also the "feeling that something has changed" as far as his constant hunger. Does this or could this mean he has been eating all this time to build mass for some impending growth spurt or tranformation? That might argue towards being a Slaad of some kind, even though many other factors seem to point away from that creature.

    I'm so confused.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
    Namer Of MitD Threads
    Charter Member and Head Ninja of Peelee's Lotsey Ninjas
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    [furiously scribbles notes on how Darth Paul is the MitD]

  15. - Top - End - #105
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Magrathea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    The biggest problem with the protean is the eyes. The MitD has two eyes in the same place all the time. The protean boils, and grows eyes all over at random. That is not a good fit.
    As has been explained, there is a mechanical method by which the Protean can avoid this and a thematic reason for MitD to be doing that. It's a relatively minor issue compared to, say, the Uvuudam.


    On the "liking dwarves" line:
    I think we should relegate it to being a bonus point if it's included in a creature, but negligible if not. Like how we don't take points off if a monster lacks a shout-centric ability, but it's a point in favor if it can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    There's also the "feeling that something has changed" as far as his constant hunger. Does this or could this mean he has been eating all this time to build mass for some impending growth spurt or tranformation? That might argue towards being a Slaad of some kind, even though many other factors seem to point away from that creature.
    On one hand, this is most likely a variation of the "MitD eats to fill the loneliness, but now he has more important things to do than eat" argument - but I wouldn't be surprised if MitD's species has an obscure growth spurt fluff somewhere that he's on the verge of.
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2022-06-23 at 12:06 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  16. - Top - End - #106
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGriffin View Post
    Are those actual examples given in the template entry? Or just you extrapolating from it?

    Also, my personal opinion on the "no longer hungry" thing was that it was some kind of emotional change, in that MitD no longer has to fill an emotional emptiness with constant eating since he now has his own self-determined goals that he's working towards. But the "about to metamorphosize" theory also makes quite a bit of sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    This one makes the most intuitive sense to me, particularly once you consider "Sometimes, I eat to fill the loneliness."

    I'm not confident enough to have certainty about it, and I'm open to other explanations and if further details reveal more, but it makes sense to me just on that level.
    This is in line with my thoughts. MitD ate due to immature boredom and lack of interest in actually doing other things. IMO the loss of permanent appetite is indicative of him growing as a person, not biological changes.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2022-06-23 at 12:06 PM.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  17. - Top - End - #107
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2020

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGriffin View Post
    Are those actual examples given in the template entry? Or just you extrapolating from it?

    Also, my personal opinion on the "no longer hungry" thing was that it was some kind of emotional change, in that MitD no longer has to fill an emotional emptiness with constant eating since he now has his own self-determined goals that he's working towards. But the "about to metamorphosize" theory also makes quite a bit of sense.
    I am extrapolating in part on the actual monster entry, and on how versions of it have been presented over the course 5 editions. Examples that specific are unlikely - I can post the actual text, if you want.

    I agree about the hungry part.

  18. - Top - End - #108
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    Dec 2019

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Are there any creatures with Wish as an extraordinary ability? Part of me thinks that's the best fit for the Escape, since V and O-Chul literally land on top of Hinjo, and it's very easy for me to picture MitD wording a Wish like "I want to send O-Chul and his elf friend back to their paladin friends." Of course, it's also not too hard to picture MitD using detect thoughts or some other similar ability to read V's mind to figure out where they came from, then use Greater Teleport or what have you, and the direct landing is just an extra punchline.
    100% agree, and I think most would, that Wish/Miracle/Reality Revision is the tidiest fit for the escape. Sending people away in exactly that fashion is a listed effect of those spells. MITD is not a caster, so your instinct that it should be an extraordinary ability is also shared by pretty much everyone.

    This is what led me to look at literally every sourcebook I could find, hunting for Wish/RR critters. I never found any, and the closest I came was the xenocrysth, which is an interesting idea but certainly not as deeply satisfying as some kind of psionic sorcerous super-ogre big boss loitering at the back page of a Forgotten Realms epic level adventure kit.

    I'm inclined towards Reality Revision because there's a quality of 'he wants it bad enough and makes it happen' to the scene. But even incorporating Wish and Miracle, the list of critters in mainstream books is very, very short.

    Dragons
    Genies
    Glabrezu and some other demons
    Zodar
    Protean (via it's ability to assume a form of some creature that can Wish)

    There's nothing else (I'm probably missing a couple) in the main manuals you'd want to look at- epic level handbook, monster manual, expanded psionics handbook, etc. Of course you can get to Wish/Reality Revision quite easily with classes or templating critters, but that's frowned upon around here since you can template up pretty much anything Large or smaller and get there- it's a phrenic psuedonatural paragon kobold... no wait it's a phrenic psuedonatural paragon awakened chicken... no wait it's a phrenic... you get the idea. Besides if it's going to be that it's going to be a phrenic psuedonatural paragon Hollyphant because that would be the most hilarious possible thing.

    There are things that can Wish or Reality Revise as a SPELL- a lich, a demilich, and your more classable and humanoid psionic or sorcerous creatures: Githyanki, Illithids, some epic-level Maenad.

    Overall we've got three sort of broad categories of being:

    1. Heavies who seem MiTD like in many ways but lack the magical skillsets
    2. Creatures with all the power checkboxes but who are either way too big or don't have the right number of eyes and limbs
    3. Creatures of the right size and power but who don't fit with MiTD's unique personality


    I do not think there is a creature that fits neatly. So we're left considering ways in which you might fudge the gaps in this list- can we give a protean two eyes and a mouth? Can we shrink down an amethyst dragon? Can we stack a couple templates on a Hollyphant? Can we fudge the teleport rules enough to get O-Chul where he needs to go with a level 4 spell?

    It's a fun game, although I suspect it will sadly come to an end in the next few months. Until then, though, we speculate wildly!

  19. - Top - End - #109
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    littlebum2002's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaziggy View Post
    100% agree, and I think most would, that Wish/Miracle/Reality Revision is the tidiest fit for the escape. Sending people away in exactly that fashion is a listed effect of those spells. MITD is not a caster, so your instinct that it should be an extraordinary ability is also shared by pretty much everyone.
    I agree that those 3 fit the scene the best, but V's Dimensional Anchor that missed just seems to out of place to not be relevant. The MitD teleporting V and O-Chul while not taking himself due tot he dimensional anchor doesn't fit as well as those 3 but it would be a very clever way to do it.
    Avatar by Gurgleflep

  20. - Top - End - #110
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Question for Rich, if he ever glances at these sprawling threads, if we found a something big--One of the pivotal scenes upon which we base our musings--that was wrong, would he lampshade the error in the comic? A throwaway line that "Really? Dimension Door requires the caster to go with the target? Someone find the retcon button for the script!" would help a lot with the Escape Scene. I know it might be too obvious but it would save a lot of teeth gnashing when the reveal does come to pass.

  21. - Top - End - #111
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaziggy View Post
    Protean (via it's ability to assume a form of some creature that can Wish)
    (We have never found a creature that has wish as an Ex ability; at current, protean relies on Greater Teleport as its explanation for the escape. It is surprising we even found that, since the Ex abilities are consistently the weakest of the three)

    GW
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  22. - Top - End - #112
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Ron Miel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Several years ago I suggested The Pooka as a candidate for MITD's identity. I didn't list my reasons in any detail at the time, and it passed almost unnoticed. After several years I've finally got around to noting why I think its a good candidate. Note that I'm basing it on real-world legends, rather than any D&D sourcebook.


    -------------
    Traditions
    -------------


    The Pooka is the subject of widespread mythology. There are legends from many countries across Europe. He is also known in various countris as Púca, Pwca, Phouka, Phooka, Poque, Bucca, or Puck. I favour the English spelling Pooka over other languages because this is a English language comic.

    Pookas are fairy creatures, with the ability speak the language of humans, and to cast magic spells.

    Pookas are shapeshifters. They can take many different forms, usually appearing in the form of animals including dog, cat, goat, bull, ass, etc. It has several favourites. One favourite form is a goblin, so hideous in appearance that milk will curdle just in his presence. A common form is a rabbit or hare the size of a tall man that walks walks upright. He most often appears as a magnificent horse. He sometimes appears in human form, but often gets a detail wrong, such as having animal ears or a tail. When appearing in many of his various animal forms he will be covered in black hair, and have yellow eyes.

    Accounts vary. Different countries have different views of his nature. In some traditions, the Pooka is a benign guardian spirit, who will protect a particular village, or a particular person. Other traditions see him as a force of destruction who needs to be placated. In some versions Pooaks are said to devour people whole.

    In other versions he is a prankster who will play frightening, but harmless tricks. A story told about the Pooka is how he appeared in Horse form to a drunken man, walking home alone after the pubs shut. The Pooka invited the man to ride upon his back. He then took the man for a terrifying ride, flying at high speed above the treetops for hundreds of miles, before eventually returning him home. Only the legendary warrior king Brian Boru was permitted to ride him like a normal horse.

    All traditions see him as potentially destructive, if he gets upset, or protecting his favourite person place.

    In all versions of the legend, the Pooka has a ravenous appetite. Farmers harvesting their crops leave a share for the Pooka. Even a benign Pooka can unleash a terrible destructive force If he doesn't get his share.

    Some Pookas are said to feel lonely, and will seek out friends to talk to. Sometimes a Pooka will put on human form then knock at the door of an old house and tell the current resident that the Pooka used to live in this house, just to start a conversation. In Ireland people often put a Pooka's seat outside the house in case the Pooka calls, so they can sit down and shoot the breeze.

    Pookas will sometimes rescue people in danger. They might intervene to prevent an accident, to warn of oncoming danger, or to lead people out of a trap. One tale tells of people lost in a swamp, where one false step could get them sucked down to a watery grave. They were guided along the safe path by a Pooka.

    ----------------
    Matches MITD ?
    ----------------

    I think the various legends of the Pookas fit MITD pretty closely. Consider:
    - Some pookas are said to devour humans. Others don't. Xykon keeps trying to get MITD to devour people, but MITD is reluctant. It fits.
    - Ravenous appetite - check
    - Destructive force if he doesn't get his share - check
    - Yellow eyes - check
    - Black fur - maybe. Perhaps it isn't just darkness under the umbrella.
    - Lonely, seeks friendships - check.
    - speaks Common - check

    A Pooka isn't one of any 'impossible' creature types. Nor is it subject to copyright restrictions.

    A Pooka's shapeshifting can expain a lot. When captured in the jungle, I speculate he was wearing horse form. The hunters ould be surprised to see a horse in the jungle. Horses live on the plains. They would have been even more surprised to hear a horse speak. At the circus, I speculate that he wore Ugly Goblin form. This could have upset the human audience, but pleased a Goblin family.

    Being a shapeshifter will mean that Rich doesn't have to actually draw a hideously ugly creature. Once he discards the umbrella he can take a more handsome form.

    Does it explain O-Chul's escape? Maybe. Pookas sometimes help people escape from daner. Pookas are known to be magic users. I haven't found ny specific legend where they teleport people, but it's not too far from known lore. This, I have to admit, is the weakest link in the argument. Even so, it sort of fits.

    Does match the Tower scene? Possibly. Pookas can be a destructive force. Presumably they are both very strong and damage resistant.

    ------------
    Final word
    ------------

    A great warrior is occasionally allowed to ride a Pooka. I note that O-Chul is in need of a paladin mount. I speculate that MITD will volunteer to be O-Chul's mount, in horse form, and happily ride off to face battle with him.

    --------
    Sources
    --------

    https://symbolsage.com/pooka-celtic-horse-goblins/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%BAca

    https://www.theirishroadtrip.com/the-puca/

    http://www.irelandseye.com/paddy3/preview2.htm

    https://www.connollycove.com/pookas/

    https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/h...h-legend-pooka

    https://www.yourirish.com/folklore/irish-pookas
    .
    -.____________________
    ./___________________()-------Ron Miel
    |...___________________--------sits down
    |..| |_________________()-------and starts
    |..|/__________________--------singing
    | ___________________()-------about gold

    .

  23. - Top - End - #113
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    When captured in the jungle, I speculate he was wearing horse form.
    A horse is not the kind of creature that you can sell for so much profit it can pay for a curse removal, I don't imagine. The SBGH reaction suggests tht MitD is rare but not unique, not a commonplace animal worth a couple hundred gp.

    As to the rest, I'd need far better support for the Escape scene before I'd buy into this. My experience with the kind of tale this pooka might show up in suggests that escapes might involve paths through the fey lands or magical objects (strangely frequently but not always common objects that when thrown grow into large obstacles), but never outright teleportation.

    Also, I fail to see how this pooka is different from any of a dozen other fey and fey-like creatures from folkstales; plenty of them are friendly sometimes nd dangerous in other (or sometimes the same!) tale, displaying enormous strength at times, enormous appetites at times, etc. I'm no expert, mind you, but one gets the feeling they're the same tales told all over, recycled to slot the local names for the pixies in each region, of which this pooka looks to be one such name, but with no actual solid lore behind it, so that it fits any tale that requires a mysterious creature to fill the antagonist/assistant role.

    (speaking of, it only just clicked that the linnorm is a weird variation on the lind worm, which is another "slot here creature" for tales that call for a dragon-like antagonist, as explained by Red in this great video)

    Grey Wolf
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  24. - Top - End - #114
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    My gut feeling is that the Stew bit indicates that MITD has now...If not stopped growing, at the very least, reached close enough to his full adult size. Basically, his hunger was the result of a continual growth spurt he's just gotten out of.

  25. - Top - End - #115
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2022

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    My gut feeling is that the Stew bit indicates that MITD has now...If not stopped growing, at the very least, reached close enough to his full adult size. Basically, his hunger was the result of a continual growth spurt he's just gotten out of.
    Agreed. Unless the author is deliberately trying to throw people off with that info, Conservation of Detail indicates that they would not spend half a page talking about something that effectively has no meaning.

  26. - Top - End - #116
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the White View Post
    Agreed. Unless the author is deliberately trying to throw people off with that info, Conservation of Detail indicates that they would not spend half a page talking about something that effectively has no meaning.
    It has plenty of meaning. It is further character development of MitD in his personal journey towards the heel face turn.

    What it need not be is a clue for the guessing game.

    GW
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2022-06-23 at 08:21 PM.
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  27. - Top - End - #117
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the White View Post
    Agreed. Unless the author is deliberately trying to throw people off with that info, Conservation of Detail indicates that they would not spend half a page talking about something that effectively has no meaning.
    Notwithstanding that I disagree that it has no meaning unless it's regarding a biological change for the MitD...
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Conservation of Detail is overrated.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  28. - Top - End - #118
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    The biggest problem with the protean is the eyes. The MitD has two eyes in the same place all the time. The protean boils, and grows eyes all over at random.
    ... unless he expends half his actions NOT changing. Because, say, he is trying to fit in with his friends, none of which constantly change. Which would be seen by those around him unaware of the effort it requires as laziness, since it takes him twice as much time to get anything done as it would for anyone else.

    All of which has been stated before, in this thread, in response to this very assertion, without ever being contested.

    Grey Wolf
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  29. - Top - End - #119
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Earth and/or not-Earth
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Notwithstanding that I disagree that it has no meaning unless it's regarding a biological change for the MitD...
    Overrated is not the same as irrelevant, though. And I think the Giant is likely to be more concerned with conservation of detail specifically in regards to the MitD, because he's built up this mystery/guessing game about the MitD's identity.
    I'm making a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.

  30. - Top - End - #120
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MITD Sweet XVI and Never Been Guessed

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    Overrated is not the same as irrelevant, though. And I think the Giant is likely to be more concerned with conservation of detail specifically in regards to the MitD, because he's built up this mystery/guessing game about the MitD's identity.
    It's not the same, no, but given how the author has said its overrated, making theories based on it seems like a poor basis to use.

    Again, notwithstanding that I disagreed with the premise that it was meaningless if not related to biological change to start with.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •