Godsmoot Being a Hung Vote ups the Stakes

[JustAnotherSoul]

This probably was discussed to death at the time, but as Loki says in 998 (
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html):

"Look, if that last rift is opened, there will still be, like, ten to fifteen minutes before You-Know-Who gets out, right?

More than enough time to pull the plug, if we all agree on that course of action today."

Which... they didn't agree on that course of action. The jury's still out pending Dvalin's vote. Seems like there's not a "cash-out in time" option on the table because of the hung vote. We already kinda knew the gods wouldn't swoop in and fix it, but it means that the last gate breaking is on the table because if the gods won't unmake the world due to their rules someone has to find a way to fix it...

[Jervis]

This probably was discussed to death at the time, but as Loki says in 998 (
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html):

"Look, if that last rift is opened, there will still be, like, ten to fifteen minutes before You-Know-Who gets out, right?

More than enough time to pull the plug, if we all agree on that course of action today."

Which... they didn't agree on that course of action. The jury's still out pending Dvalin's vote. Seems like there's not a "cash-out in time" option on the table because of the hung vote. We already kinda knew the gods wouldn't swoop in and fix it, but it means that the last gate breaking is on the table because if the gods won't unmake the world due to their rules someone has to find a way to fix it...

Honestly i’m thinking the snarl isn’t gonna be there anymore. Seems like whatever world is inside of there is something it either created or became. That begs the question though of what is there. (The meme answer is 5e mechanics coming in to ruin everyone’s spellcasting)

[Bacon Elemental]

Well, that was assumed for quite a while, but nobody's been sure since the shock reveal at Laurin's Rift at the end of BRitF

[Fyraltari]

We already kinda knew the gods wouldn't swoop in and fix it, but it means that the last gate breaking is on the table because if the gods won't unmake the world due to their rules someone has to find a way to fix it...

I don't think the last Gate being broken is necessarily worse than the gods unmaking the world. Our protagonists are all pretty clear they don't consider the world being destroyed in any fashion to be an acceptable outcome and the Snarl would be a preferable outcome for all the people who would be sent to unpleasant afterlives, especially the dwarves. Not to mention that Hel being head of the Northern Pantheon, if only for a while would probably make the next world significantly worse off.

[Rad]

Honestly i’m thinking the snarl isn’t gonna be there anymore.

I used to think that but then it seems to still be there at the end of book 5: 945

[hroþila]

the Snarl would be a preferable outcome for all the people who would be sent to unpleasant afterlives, especially the dwarves.

I think this is a very bold statement. I'm not sure the dwarves in Hel's domain have it so bad that they would necessarily prefer non-existence compared to other afterlives, but even so, even in the worst circumstances people tend to cling to existing. And sure, part of that is hope that the circumstances will change at some point, but even when that hope is absent people don't necessarily prefer ceasing to exist.

[Anonymouswizard]

Honestly i’m thinking the snarl isn’t gonna be there anymore. Seems like whatever world is inside of there is something it either created or became. That begs the question though of what is there. (The meme answer is 5e mechanics coming in to ruin everyone’s spellcasting)

I think the Snarl is going to be there, and be revealed to have learnt how to create a WORLD but not LIFE. The worlds aren't lasting longer because the gods are making them better, but because it takes the Snarl longer to stop messing with their planet. This of course uses the same Threads of Reality the gods are trying to imprison it with, which means eventually there won't be enough to create a new prison. There's no way to know when this'll happen, and so saving this world becomes even more important.

Of course the Snarl could also be something that the inhabitants of the original world created and it's just safeguarding that first planet. But as the Snarl appears to repress the underlying tensions in a gaming group which flare up and destroy campaigns, but the group eventually gets better at dealing with or ignoring, that seems unsatisfying. It also requires Thor to be speaking From A Certain Point of View, and I really don't think he is.

[KorvinStarmast]

Godsmoot Being a Hung Vote ups the Stakes

Hardly. It's a plot device to segue into the fight with Durkula.

[littlebum2002]

I think the Snarl is going to be there, and be revealed to have learnt how to create a WORLD but not LIFE. The worlds aren't lasting longer because the gods are making them better, but because it takes the Snarl longer to stop messing with their planet. This of course uses the same Threads of Reality the gods are trying to imprison it with, which means eventually there won't be enough to create a new prison. There's no way to know when this'll happen, and so saving this world becomes even more important.

Of course the Snarl could also be something that the inhabitants of the original world created and it's just safeguarding that first planet. But as the Snarl appears to repress the underlying tensions in a gaming group which flare up and destroy campaigns, but the group eventually gets better at dealing with or ignoring, that seems unsatisfying. It also requires Thor to be speaking From A Certain Point of View, and I really don't think he is.

I personally think the Snarl hasn't killed anyone, and has instead brought them to the world it created inside the rifts. Creatures from all the worlds that have been created so far life together in (relative) peace and worship the Eastern gods.

I don't think this scenario is likely to actually happen but it is my headcanon until proven otherwise.

[JustAnotherSoul]

Hardly. It's a plot device to segue into the fight with Durkula.

Eh. Just because it's a plot device doesn't mean it can only have one purpose. The gods are still narratively important and the recurring theme there is "Their rules get in their way", if the last gate gets broken the hung vote plausibly means that the gods can't 'fix' it by 'cashing out'. We've seen evidence that the snarl doesn't unmake everything like we saw in the crayon drawings and how Thor and Odin seem to think it works ("What planet inside the rift?"). We have at least one notable hanging threads as to what it actually does in Laurin's encounter with the snarl. She might just be perma-dead.

I mean on further reflection, ultimately, your strongest meta-argument is that Durkon says that Redcloak can't win because the gods will destroy the world if he gets closer to winning and that's what the party says to convince Serini to help them. Given that the main characters aren't expecting the gods to sit around twiddling their thumbs if the snarl gets out it seems reasonable to trust their sentiments there. They could be wrong, but there's no evidence they're wrong yet.

Another reasonable argument is that you can interpret Loki's statement as being to other gods and more "If we don't agree to destroy it today, we are tacitly agreeing to do the usual thing, and will have plenty of time to do it". That seems like flexing the words Loki used, but you could argue that interpretation in a few ways even without the meta-context of the narrative the Giant is weaving.

Another counter-argument is that I think the Giant said somewhere that the snarl is just a MacGuffin? Might be misremembering that with Xykon talking about 'our MacGuffin just blew up, lets split' in Azure city. But even so, that seems like the weakest argument. You can have a MacGuffin that winds up being climatically important.

I could see it going either way. We have a few little scraps of characters questioning whether or not the snarl is or what it is, the gods ignorance about the presence of a planet in the rift, Thor speculating that mortals might be more resistant to it than a god because they've got more quiddities, and the tacit presence of a fourth quiddity in Redcloak's divine magic. All to say, there's been enough set up to the answer being "The MacGuffin is not as simple as it has been billed to be" that I don't think this ends with just Durkon, Redcloak, and/or V starting a guild of spot welders who fix the rifts in perpetuity.

[Peelee]

I personally think the Snarl hasn't killed anyone, and has instead brought them to the world it created inside the rifts. Creatures from all the worlds that have been created so far life together in (relative) peace and worship the Eastern gods.

I don't think this scenario is likely to actually happen but it is my headcanon until proven otherwise.

Millions of people from billions of worlds would make for one crowded planet. And, that aside, I doubt the eastern gods are still alive - even if other worlds' mortals are pulled into the world in the rifts, that didn't exist before the gods sealed the Snarl away, which was after the eastern pantheon was slaughtered.

[Rrmcklin]

I personally think the Snarl hasn't killed anyone, and has instead brought them to the world it created inside the rifts. Creatures from all the worlds that have been created so far life together in (relative) peace and worship the Eastern gods.

I don't think this scenario is likely to actually happen but it is my headcanon until proven otherwise.

My nature is to point out how you contradict yourself here. This isn't something you actually think is true, it's just something you'd like.

But besides that, though I've never actually been one for "the stakes have to keep constantly being uped", I've also never gotten the appeal of "actually, there's not threat at all". Because it's a twist? Twists mean nothing in and of themselves, and I don't see how this would contribute to the narrative that's being weaved.

[dancrilis]

Millions of people from billions of worlds would make for one crowded planet.

In fairness Snarl Space does seem to have what look like stars (panel 15), so they wouldn't need to all be on the same planet.

And, that aside, I doubt the eastern gods are still alive - even if other worlds' mortals are pulled into the world in the rifts, that didn't exist before the gods sealed the Snarl away, which was after the eastern pantheon was slaughtered.

Agreed in principle - but Thor or Shojo might not be correct in what happened to them, I get the impression (possibly incorrectly) that Thor was not standing close when they supposedly got killed, if the Giant has a lot twist coming I wouldn't call shenanigans.

[Laurentio III]

Leeet's say... that people and gods and even planets are killed by the Snarl. But as the Snarl is born from a massive creative effort, it "copies" everything it slaughter inside itself.
Then, the olympians would be there, as millions of planets. That is, all planets that the gods didn't destroy themselves to kill-steal the Snarl.
A pocket universe.

[InvisibleBison]

Leeet's say... that people and gods and even planets are killed by the Snarl. But as the Snarl is born from a massive creative effort, it "copies" everything it slaughter inside itself.
Then, the olympians would be there, as millions of planets. That is, all planets that the gods didn't destroy themselves to kill-steal the Snarl.
A pocket universe.

The Snarl was not born of a massive creative effort. It was born of strife and conflict amongst creators. Those are not at all the same thing.

[Laurentio III]

The Snarl was not born of a massive creative effort. It was born of strife and conflict amongst creators. Those are not at all the same thing.

You seems not familiar with how team creative efforts go.
(It's humor. I don't know you and not going to guess if you are familiar or not with team dinamics. This person knows the genesis of the Snarl and is not in need for an explaining, but you are welcomed to do if it suits you. An erection lasting more than four hours is awesome but a doctor should still look at it. I'm not a doctor. By any extend. Collateral effects of thinking I'm a doctor are lack of medical assistance, wrong medical assistance, dead, dead but worse, dead while having an erection.)

[Zarhan]

Which... they didn't agree on that course of action. The jury's still out pending Dvalin's vote. Seems like there's not a "cash-out in time" option on the table because of the hung vote.

The item on the agenda that is currently hung is whether to give the mortals time to fix things or just cut the losses and nuke the world. And at this point it's pretty much clear that by the time a new table is procured for dwarves they'll say no.

However, if the last gate gets destroyed/taken over by Xykon, the whole bit with moot and asking for votes and waiting on Dvalin just goes out the window.

Essentially, gods will say "Ok, while we were waiting, the mortals failed to protect the last gate, so the issue is completely moot and can be dismissed. We'll reconvene in a couple of millenia to discuss what kind of world we'll do next. *BOOM*".

[littlebum2002]

My nature is to point out how you contradict yourself here. This isn't something you actually think is true, it's just something you'd like.

But besides that, though I've never actually been one for "the stakes have to keep constantly being uped", I've also never gotten the appeal of "actually, there's not threat at all". Because it's a twist? Twists mean nothing in and of themselves, and I don't see how this would contribute to the narrative that's being weaved.

Slight correction: It's what I think happened, I just don't think Rich agrees with me

In fairness Snarl Space does seem to have what look like stars (panel 15), so they wouldn't need to all be on the same planet.

That's what I was thinking. Each planet was just sucked in by the snarl and exists somewhere in this pocket universe

Agreed in principle - but Thor or Shojo might not be correct in what happened to them, I get the impression (possibly incorrectly) that Thor was not standing close when they supposedly got killed, if the Giant has a lot twist coming I wouldn't call shenanigans.

Everything we know about the snarl has been hearsay. Even Belkar recognizes that we don't know as much about the situation as we think we do