Random Banter #239 - Now 50% more tangible!

[Fyraltari]

The only time it was explicitly romantic was when there was a female Master and a Male Doctor but the typical depiction of The Doctor and The Master is a pair of former best friends who had a falling out but keep running into each other and have a horribly toxic codependency even when acting against each other.

Don't forget all the time they spent running around while pointing... interestingly shaped devices at each other.

Spoiler: The Doctor built this. It moves when pointed in the dircetion of the Master

Show

It may have only been explicitly romantic when genderbending made it straight but it was very implicit before.

[Anonymouswizard]

If you think The Master has ego problems please remember that doctoring something is officially one step beyond mastering it

Also remember that the Master spent the entirety of the movie lusting after the Doctor's body

[Rater202]

If you think The Master has ego problems please remember that doctoring something is officially one step beyond mastering it

Isn't it canon that doctors are named after The Doctor, not the other way around?

[Anonymouswizard]

Isn't it canon that doctors are named after The Doctor, not the other way around?

Apparently it's also canon that there were doctors after Eccleston, but this is up for debate.

[LaZodiac]

Apparently it's also canon that there were doctors after Eccleston, but this is up for debate.

Like any and all Doctors, all of the Doctors are the best and the worst Doctor, but especially the one you like and especially the one you dislike.

[Fyraltari]

Isn't it canon that doctors are named after The Doctor, not the other way around?

Yes. But also no.

Both have been claimed.

I personnally prefer the idea that The Doctor chose their name as a promise to themself.

[HalfTangible]

Yeah I don't expect subtle motives for a man calling himself THE MASTER. Dude's gotta be bombastic as hell. I vaguely recall hearing there's a scene of him dancing around to Scissor Sister's "I Can't Decide" and look maybe that's bad, but it's also very very good.

Depends on the incarnation.

Isn't it canon that doctors are named after The Doctor, not the other way around?

No but it is established that 'Doctor' means 'warrior' on some worlds despite meaning "healer" and "wise man" throughout the universe.

Even if so, given time travel is a thing I'm more inclined to believe a chicken-and-egg situation

[HalfTangible]

If you think The Master has ego problems please remember that doctoring something is officially one step beyond mastering it

A doctor is a healer. Brilliant, yes, but also there to help.

A master is someone who has complete control and superiority over you, whether they because they're more skilled than you or because they give you orders.

[LaZodiac]

A doctor is a healer. Brilliant, yes, but also there to help.

A master is someone who has complete control and superiority over you, whether they because they're more skilled than you or because they give you orders.

In schooling, a Doctorate is above a Master's Degree.

[Anonymouswizard]

A doctor is a healer. Brilliant, yes, but also there to help.

A Doctor is somebody who has (theoretically) reached the pinnacle of their field. This could be medicine, but my friend who's a doctor of physics is still a doctor.

It is also notably one academic rank above 'Master'.

The Doctor is going around calling themself 'the learned one'. That's a pretty big ego.

[Peelee]

In schooling, a Doctorate is above a Master's Degree.

A Doctor is somebody who has (theoretically) reached the pinnacle of their field.

Depends on the field! There are several areas where a Master's is the terminal degree. For example, I have a friend who I joke has a "fake doctorate" in photography as they do not offer a doctoral degree for it.

A Doctor is somebody who has (theoretically) reached the pinnacle of their field. This could be medicine

Psh. Your surgeons aren't even doctors.

Also, postdoc degrees exist for the medical field, so MD isn't exactly a terminal degree (though it's basically considered one regardless).

[Bartmanhomer]

Greeting mortals! I'm doing reaction videos on YouTube.

[TaiLiu]

Greeting mortals! I'm doing reaction videos on YouTube.

That's great! Do you have a link?

[Bartmanhomer]

That's great! Do you have a link?

Yes! https://youtube.com/user/Bartmanhomerthe7th

[TaiLiu]

Yes! https://youtube.com/user/Bartmanhomerthe7th

Thank you!

[Bartmanhomer]

Thank you!

You're welcome.

[Rater202]

Quinn/Introspective Spy of TeamFourStar is streaming Digimon Survive.

He is apparently a big fan of the franchise(though seems to stick mostly to the anime) but he apparently didn't know going in that the player's choices in the Visual Novel segments of the game affect the evolutionary path of the main character's Agumon partner.

I could almost literally taste the salt when he hit the scripted first Evolution and got Tyrannomon instead of Greymon.

[Metastachydium]

Isn't it canon that doctors are named after The Doctor, not the other way around?

Depends on the incarnation.

No but it is established that 'Doctor' means 'warrior' on some worlds despite meaning "healer" and "wise man" throughout the universe.

Even if so, given time travel is a thing I'm more inclined to believe a chicken-and-egg situation

Yes, that last bit makes it a slight bit less stupid than the usual implementation of the whole "what if X was named after Y" equine faeces, but only a very slight bit. You see, doctor doesn't mean 'healer'. It means 'teacher'. It comes from a perfectly regular second conjugation Latin verb. For medical doctors to be named after the Doctor, he would have had to
1. manipulate the development of Indo-European languages thoroughly enough that doceo becomes a thing in Latin;
2. manipulate the development of Indo-European languages thoroughly enough that -tor becomes a thing in Latin, and a very productive suffix to boot;
3. make sure Latin survives as the European lingua franca for long enough;
4. make sure it survives as a supranational language of science for longer yet;
5. make sure doctor becomes a degree at early European universities;
6. make sure medicine is a field one can become a doctor in;
7. make sure this custom survives throughout the ages; and
8. make sure that without anything to qualify it further, the word doctor becomes primarily associated with medical professionals rather than theologians or jurists in colloquial use.

And even then, doctors are not so much named after him as they unwittingly bear the same name because of a millenia long gratuitous ego trip. And that's before him needing to ensure that society stays male-dominated throughout this period, lest doctrix being a commonly used title mess up his oh-so-clever plan.

(Parenthetical fun fact: without anything to qualify it further, perhaps the most common meaning of magister in Latin was also 'teacher'.)

[HalfTangible]

Yes, that last bit makes it a slight bit less stupid than the usual implementation of the whole "what if X was named after Y" equine faeces, but only a very slight bit. You see, doctor doesn't mean 'healer'. It means 'teacher'. It comes from a perfectly regular second conjugation Latin verb. For medical doctors to be named after the Doctor, he would have had to
1. manipulate the development of Indo-European languages thoroughly enough that doceo becomes a thing in Latin;
2. manipulate the development of Indo-European languages thoroughly enough that -tor becomes a thing in Latin, and a very productive suffix to boot;
3. make sure Latin survives as the European lingua franca for long enough;
4. make sure it survives as a supranational language of science for longer yet;
5. make sure doctor becomes a degree at early European universities;
6. make sure medicine is a field one can become a doctor in;
7. make sure this custom survives throughout the ages; and
8. make sure that without anything to qualify it further, the word doctor becomes primarily associated with medical professionals rather than theologians or jurists in colloquial use.

And even then, doctors are not so much named after him as they unwittingly bear the same name because of a millenia long gratuitous ego trip. And that's before him needing to ensure that society stays male-dominated throughout this period, lest doctrix being a commonly used title mess up his oh-so-clever plan.

(Parenthetical fun fact: without anything to qualify it further, perhaps the most common meaning of magister in Latin was also 'teacher'.)

Given the universal translator aspect of the TARDIS I imagine it isn't literally/phonetically "the Doctor"

[Fyraltari]

Given the universal translator aspect of the TARDIS I imagine it isn't literally/phonetically "the Doctor"

If the noun is derived from the name, yes it would be. The Tardis doesn't translate alien names, only their ranks, titles, nicknames or what-have-you. It didn't translate "Nardole" into "Michael" or whatever.

If the name comes from the noun, then it would be translated.

[Anonymouswizard]

Plus for the first two seasons or so it wasn't what the Doctor called themself, it's what Ian and Barbara called them, which means it probably is the English word. It's questionable if they'd even decided on a title at that point.

[HalfTangible]

If the noun is derived from the name, yes it would be. The Tardis doesn't translate alien names, only their ranks, titles, nicknames or what-have-you. It didn't translate "Nardole" into "Michael" or whatever.

If the name comes from the noun, then it would be translated.

The Doctor explicitly isn't his name.

[Anonymouswizard]

The Doctor explicitly isn't his name.

Neither is Theta Sigma. The closest the character has to an actual name is Doctor Who, which is explicitly only an out of universe moniker.

[LaZodiac]

This series has time travel the origin of the word doctor and how it relates to The Doctor is a cyclical loop of being based on itself.

[Fyraltari]

The Doctor explicitly isn't his name.

Yes it is. Just not the name they were assigned at birth.

More to the point, the theory is that the word Doctor acquired its meaning because some guy calling himself "The Doctor" kept being awesome and wise around humans (and because Steven Moffat apparently has a physical need for his protagonists to be the center of the universe). If that is true then "The Doctor" was originally as meanignless in English as "The Rani" is.

Of course this implies that The Doctor barely interacts with humans outside of Europe, since they didn't adopt their name as a word in their language, but what else is new.

This is a really silly idea.

[Anonymouswizard]

Of course this implies that The Doctor barely interacts with humans outside of Europe, since they didn't adopt their name as a word in their language, but what else is new.

This is a really silly idea.

You say it's a silly idea, but when visiting Earth how often do they leave one backwards island constantly trying to declare war on France?

[Peelee]

In Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, Rufus never introcudes himself by name to Bill and Ted. They learn his name from themselves, who learned it from themselves, who learned it from themselves, who learned it from...


Time travel can be fun.

[Fyraltari]

You say it's a silly idea, but when visiting Earth how often do they leave one backwards island constantly trying to declare war on France?

No, no, no, the idea that the word "doctor" comed from the time travelling alien is very silly.

That the Doctor only interacts with current-day Britons, that, is hard fact.

[Keltest]

Yes it is. Just not the name they were assigned at birth.

Admittedly its been a long time, but doesnt the Doctor have an actual name name (as opposed to a title) that he does know and identify with that he simply keeps private for his own reasons?

[Anonymouswizard]

No, no, no, the idea that the word "doctor" comed from the time travelling alien is very silly.

That the Doctor only interacts with current-day Britons, that, is hard fact.

Ah, that makes more sense.

The more modern Who has gone on the more I've become disillusioned with anything introduced after Nine (barring Tine Lord regeneration being able to change gender and ethnicity). So I honestly ignore Moffat's 'the word comes from the character' but. I'm now on the verge of not even checking out Davies's second run because everything I'm hearing is making me more and more worried he'll turn it into a soap opera

Admittedly its been a long time, but doesnt the Doctor have an actual name name (as opposed to a title) that he does know and identify with that he simply keeps private for his own reasons?

The Doctor went by Theta Sigma at the academy, which is pointedly not their real name. So while they do have a birth name the balance of probability is that they don't identify with it.

Alternatively their birth name, in true Gallofreyab tradition, is Thedoctorwho.