Random Banter #239 - Now 50% more tangible!

[Peelee]

Hey, new word!

I learned it from the movie Fanboys. Which I greatly enjoyed, I should mention. Drove to Atlanta (~250km) with a friend to see it as it was a limited release

[Keltest]

Unless mutants are particularly promiscuous I'd expect it to take at least three generations, and that's assuming it passes to every child.

Now if Rater had said two hundred years (so >10 generations) I wouldn't have as many issues

If my understanding is correct, were looking at thousands of generations or more, to the point where people have actually mutated out of the original gene cluster into different flavors along the way.

Rater would know better than I would, but I THINK, emphasis on the uncertainty, that theres supposed to be some sort of outside stimulus going on thats interacting with the genes to cause the powers to manifest en masse now rather than thousands of years ago. Which is the part where it starts to get into "its basically magic", but I think this is at least partially based on stuff written when our understanding of genetics was limited to "they exist!"

[Rater202]

Unless mutants are particularly promiscuous

Superhumans in general are particularly promiscuous.

For what it's worth, the mutant population has been kept artificially low by outside factors like "the majority of mutants on earth getting trapped in a hell-realm a few thousand years ago" or "the majority of mutants being killed as changelings and/or witches for a significant portion of history" and "that one time the evil spirit pretending to be Xavier's twin sister hijacked a Sentinel factory and dropped a ****load of kill bots on Genosha."

[Keltest]

Superhumans in general are particularly promiscuous.

Insert XXX-men joke here.

But actually though, are you sure youre using that word correctly, or has there just been an entire side to marvel comics that nobody ever talks about where people are constantly getting intimate that I didnt know about?

[Fyraltari]

Insert XXX-men joke here.

But actually though, are you sure youre using that word correctly, or has there just been an entire side to marvel comics that nobody ever talks about where people are constantly getting intimate that I didnt know about?

Superheroes tend to be young, very attractive people in absurdly skin-tight costumes. In the 70-odd years MArvel and DC have been a thing most of their characters have dated multiple people, including fellow heroes and "reformed" (or not) villains.

Honestly, every time there's a big gathering, it's gotta be a nightmare to seat everybody without awkwardly putting two exes next to one another.

[LaZodiac]

Superheroes tend to be young, very attractive people in absurdly skin-tight costumes. In the 70-odd years MArvel and DC have been a thing most of their characters have dated multiple people, including fellow heroes and "reformed" (or not) villains.

Honestly, every time there's a big gathering, it's gotta be a nightmare to seat everybody without awkwardly putting two exes next to one another.

And god forbid you get seated between a couple.

Imagine being meeting neighbors with Hawk and Dove, for instance.

[Anonymouswizard]

Insert XXX-men joke here.

But actually though, are you sure youre using that word correctly, or has there just been an entire side to marvel comics that nobody ever talks about where people are constantly getting intimate that I didnt know about?

I believe it's exclusive to the French versions.

[Rater202]

If my understanding is correct, were looking at thousands of generations or more, to the point where people have actually mutated out of the original gene cluster into different flavors along the way.

Rater would know better than I would, but I THINK, emphasis on the uncertainty, that theres supposed to be some sort of outside stimulus going on thats interacting with the genes to cause the powers to manifest en masse now rather than thousands of years ago. Which is the part where it starts to get into "its basically magic", but I think this is at least partially based on stuff written when our understanding of genetics was limited to "they exist!"

Essentially: A Sick Celestial puked itself to death on Earth back when it was molten rock.

Thus all organic matter on earth is saturated with the essence of said celestial and h disease that killed it, resulting in both a much greater potential to develop powers and a much higher rate of mutation than life on other planets.

The celestials periodically tamper with life on earth as it's developing in the hopes of creating a "live virus vaccine" for the disease because, left to its own devices, life on earth would become some kind of galactic cancer.

(exposure to superhuman energy can cure a Celestial infected with the disease.)

Celestial experiments on "lesser" species tend to follow a pattern: Eternals who represent Order, Deviants who represent Chaos, and Mutants who represent potential. Eternal and Deviants are engineered outright with whatever abilities they need to fulfill their purpose in a given experiment, mutants are seeded with gene complex that does nothing in the first generation but evolves over time until becoming active millennia later.

In the case of earth, the Deviants were created to soak up the majority of the infectedCelsial essence, rapidly mutating through a number of forms, and then when table interbreeds with baseline humanity or whatever other complex life appeared on the planet in order to allow them to develop superpowers without the risk of instability. In the case of Mutants, a certain percentage of Deviant ancestry is needed for superpowers to activate.

The purpose of the Eternals was o insure that nothing outside of Earth interfered and to kill any Deviants who turned into monsters due to the rapid mutation.

Mutants have always been a small percentage of the human population and left to their own devices would have become the entirety of the human population centuries ago, but... Well, there's a disturbing tendency for first-generation mutants to be murdered without reproducing.

The percentage of mutants born to human parents has been steadily increasing for decades and it's not 100% clear why. Part of it is the increased background radiation following various nuclear tests in the 40s and 50s has resulted in more "latent" mutants activating than would have otherwise but there are legitimately just more mutants outright being born.

My theory, as I stated, is that with the reveal of the importance of Deviant ancestry to mutant gene activation is just that... I mean, the deviants never really stopped interbreeding with humanity. I figure that after all this time deviant genes being passed around various human bloodlines with the occasional interjection of fresh deviant blood resulted in some sort of equilibrium.

Spider-People, Hulks, and so on? They're either the result of "superpower" genes the Celestials experimented with but discarded before settling on the prototype for what became the X-Gene, quirks of the highly mutative nature of deviant biology passing along non-standard traits, Eternal Ancestry, or some combination of the above

Of note: All "natural" hulks, as opposed to people who got spliced with hulk DNA, are confirmed to be part of the same bloodline dating back 10 thousand years ago to a man named Tammuz.

Insert XXX-men joke here.

But actually though, are you sure youre using that word correctly, or has there just been an entire side to marvel comics that nobody ever talks about where people are constantly getting intimate that I didnt know about?

It's kind of a running gag that once you've been part of the superhuman community long enough that you lose all inhibitions regarding sex and nudity.

And lots of superhumans are implied to have healthy and active sex lives.

Or outright stated. She-Hulk has slept with over a thousand men that she remembers and Spider-Man and MJ are both pretty open about being into bondage.

Mister Fantastic is also confirmed to use his powers in the bedroom...

...And Nightcrawler left the priesthood because he couldn't keep it in his pants.

...Wolverine literally had a small army of bastard children he didn't know about...

Daredevil is a bigger "himbo" than Logan...

Hercules is literally Hercules...

[Fyraltari]

Imagine being meeting neighbors with Hawk and Dove, for instance.

I... don't know what they're like.

I believe it's exclusive to the French versions.

Sorry, we make good comics.

[Anonymouswizard]

Sorry, we make good comics.

So do we tea lovers! And I hear the Belgians are also pretty good at this stuff too. I'm starting to suspect that most of the exceptions come from one place.

[LaZodiac]

I... don't know what they're like.


Sorry, we make good comics.

Rater can better explain but one is the like, embodiment of war and retributive justice, and the other is the embodiment of peace and healing justice.

They're married and absolutely obsessed. Permanent honeymoon couple.

[Rater202]

Did anyone else grow up with shows, movies, and books about kids going on magical adventures that helped them learn the lessons they'd need in order to adult and then feel vaguely cheated when you turned 18 with no magical adventure and no idea how to adult?

[Peelee]

Did anyone else grow up with shows, movies, and books about kids going on magical adventures that helped them learn the lessons they'd need in order to adult and then feel vaguely cheated when you turned 18 with no magical adventure and no idea how to adult?

No, because the media helped impart such lessons onto me.

[HalfTangible]

Did anyone else grow up with shows, movies, and books about kids going on magical adventures that helped them learn the lessons they'd need in order to adult and then feel vaguely cheated when you turned 18 with no magical adventure and no idea how to adult?

There's no such thing as an adult, just kids that got bigger.

[Anonymouswizard]

Did anyone else grow up with shows, movies, and books about kids going on magical adventures that helped them learn the lessons they'd need in order to adult and then feel vaguely cheated when you turned 18 with no magical adventure and no idea how to adult?

No, it was always more three boys, a girl, and Timmy the dog finding a pirate treasure map. Very annoyed that I never dug up any chests.

[Manga Shoggoth]

No, it was always more three boys, a girl, and Timmy the dog finding a pirate treasure map. Very annoyed that I never dug up any chests.

And there were no pirates on Windermere. Or Derwent Water for that matter...

[Anonymouswizard]

And there were no pirates on Windermere. Or Derwent Water for that matter...

Honestly I couldn't remember what the treasure was, just that it doesn't appear until the villains of book 2 try to buy George's island.

[tomandtish]

And lots of superhumans are implied to have healthy and active sex lives.

Or outright stated. She-Hulk has slept with over a thousand men that she remembers and Spider-Man and MJ are both pretty open about being into bondage.

Mister Fantastic is also confirmed to use his powers in the bedroom...

...And Nightcrawler left the priesthood because he couldn't keep it in his pants.

...Wolverine literally had a small army of bastard children he didn't know about...

Daredevil is a bigger "himbo" than Logan...

Hercules is literally Hercules...

While you can argue whether the man himself is a superhero, Tony Stark in all incarnations has a reputation for sleeping with lots of people as well. Ultimate Universe Tony once bragged he averaged a person a day.

Even MCU Tony was asked if he went 12 for 12 with Maxim covers (I believe). He responds that he missed one of them but a different month was twins.

It's implied heavily and believed by many that Ultimate Wanda and Pietro (siblings) are in a sexual relationship.

[Rater202]

It's implied heavily and believed by many that Ultimate Wanda and Pietro (siblings) are in a sexual relationship.

And that is one of many reasons why we d not talk about the Ultimate universe.

[Mystic Muse]

Not so ultimate, eh?

[Keltest]

Some of them get cool outfits at least.

[LaZodiac]

Not so ultimate, eh?

I'm like 90% sure the only thing in the Ultimates universe that was considered Good is "Samael Jackson as Nick Fury" and "Miles Morales".

[Rater202]

Not so ultimate, eh?

The only good things to come from the Ultmate Universe happened in the Spider-Man books.

A great number of writers decided that "reimagine the marvel universe" meant "maximum edge."

So we got "jingoistic-Captain America," "Tony-Stark with cripplingly painful nerve-cancer," and so, so, so much cannibalism.

You also got things like, since in this universe mutants were the result of a failed super-soldier serum escaping into the wild, it just... Didn't have any of the inborn safety measures that comes from main comics mutants being a mixture of careful cosmic science and natural evolution.

So for example you get the storyline of the kid who wakes up one day with the ability to obliterate living organic matter within several miles of himself with no ability to control it and Xavier sends Wolverine to assassinate the kid becuase of anyone finds out he exists mutants will never ever be granted rights for fear that there could be another him.

Which gets cited every single ****ing time a discussion of why the "mutant cures" are considered bad, in-universe, comes up in regards to the main comics and whenever someone brings it up no amount of "that never happens on Earth 616*" will get whoever brought it up to back down.

*People like Rogue or Cyclops are the result of brain damage or psychological trauma. By default, if a mutant has some kind of "emitter" power, to borrow terminology from MHA, they tend to have reflexive control.

[Keltest]

The only good things to come from the Ultmate Universe happened in the Spider-Man books.

A great number of writers decided that "reimagine the marvel universe" meant "maximum edge."

So we got "jingoistic-Captain America," "Tony-Stark with cripplingly painful nerve-cancer," and so, so, so much cannibalism.

You also got things like, since in this universe mutants were the result of a failed super-soldier serum escaping into the wild, it just... Didn't have any of the inborn safety measures that comes from main comics mutants being a mixture of careful cosmic science and natural evolution.

So for example you get the storyline of the kid who wakes up one day with the ability to obliterate living organic matter within several miles of himself with no ability to control it and Xavier sends Wolverine to assassinate the kid becuase of anyone finds out he exists mutants will never ever be granted rights for fear that there could be another him.

Which gets cited every single ****ing time a discussion of why the "mutant cures" are considered bad, in-universe, comes up in regards to the main comics and whenever someone brings it up no amount of "that never happens on Earth 616*" will get whoever brought it up to back down.

*People like Rogue or Cyclops are the result of brain damage or psychological trauma. By default, if a mutant has some kind of "emitter" power, to borrow terminology from MHA, they tend to have reflexive control.

Lets be real here, "that never happens on 616" will be true exactly until the point that it isnt. Also, the fact that people like Rogue and Cyclops exist is a pretty strong indicator that whatever biological safeguards are in place are not sufficiently foolproof that they should be taken for granted. Hasn't Rogue killed or almost killed people with her powers before on accident?

[Peelee]

I'm like 90% sure the only thing in the Ultimates universe that was considered Good is "Samael Jackson as Nick Fury" and "Miles Morales".

I'm totally in the minority here, but Sam Jackson is overrated.

[Lord Raziere]

Yeah, I once tried to get into comic books using the ultimate universe, didn't take cause I found them weirdly written now I just know they're bad.

looked back on the ultimate comic books I have and they have a consistency: "written by Mark Millar"

This explains so much about the Ultimate Universe and why its so bad.

[Rater202]

Lets be real here, "that never happens on 616" will be true exactly until the point that it isnt?

60 years IRL, 17,000 in-universe, you can count the number of people with control issues on one hand.

[Keltest]

60 years IRL, 17,000 in-universe, you can count the number of people with control issues on one hand.

As I said, that will be true exactly up until the point it isn't. It only takes one writer wanting to portray the debate as a little bit more nuanced than a lot of people being fear-mongering bigots only interested in hurting people for no reason for some mutant to show up whose powers are so destructive that they cant ever use them, or someone who has control issues, or some other thing to demonstrate a legitimate public danger from people walking around with biological weapons attached to them at all times.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Honestly I couldn't remember what the treasure was, just that it doesn't appear until the villains of book 2 try to buy George's island.

Actually, I'm referring to Swallows and Amazons (rather than the Famous Five), where they did find a pirate treasure chest (well, pirate and treasure of a sort...).

[Rater202]

As I said, that will be true exactly up until the point it isn't. It only takes one writer wanting to portray the debate as a little bit more nuanced than a lot of people being fear-mongering bigots only interested in hurting people for no reason for some mutant to show up whose powers are so destructive that they cant ever use them, or someone who has control issues, or some other thing to demonstrate a legitimate public danger from people walking around with biological weapons attached to them at all times.

They already did that.

The "Hope" serum was created a s a means to help mutants manage their powers. It came in a pill that would suppress mutant powers for a few hours and an injection that would suppress them permanently.

The injections was meant only in the most extreme cases, the example being a girl who had trouble controlling her ability to manifest her dreams into reality which interacted terribly with her chronic night terrors.

The fact that that girl existed and benefitted from her power being permenantly suppressed did not in any way make the fact that the injection was forced on a boy who could fly, eventually leading to his death when he jumped off a roof in the hopes that the danger would shock his powers back on, any less horrifying.

Also, for context, a boy named wither who had the power of a decaying touch and issues controlling it due to trauma related to accidentally killing someone with it when it first kicked on? He was offered the shot but elected for the pills.

(Also, editorial would probably stop any writer who wanted to create a mutant whose power was "nuke an entire city" or similar due to the fact that, given Marvel's focus on a handful of cities in the main omics, it would screw over every other comic writer. Screwing other other writers tends to not be handled well.)