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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    I'm noticing a real lack of low-level minion summoning/calling/conjuring in 5E. So far, the closest I've gotten are Animal Friendship, Animal Messenger, and Find Familiar. Is there anything like 3E's Summon Monster I, Summon Undead I, or Summon Woodland Creature I?
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Summon Beast, level 2 druid spell from TCoE. Otherwise, stuff starts being available at level 5.
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueJK's Avatar

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Unseen Servant is about the only other Level 1 summoning spell, and its combat applications are limited to basic object interactions like pouring oil or caltrops on the floor.

    As noted, the Level 2 spell Summon Beast is the first viable combatant summoning spell, first becoming available to Level 3 Druids or Level 5 Rangers. The other combat summoning spells don't become available until you hit Level 3 spells.
    Last edited by RogueJK; 2022-06-24 at 12:09 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Well that's annoying.

    I wasn't looking to summon a solar at first level, just something that would give me a disposable minion for Magical Initiate.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Summon familiar is a 1st level wizard spell. It can deliver touch spells and can receive dragon's breath (2nd level wizard spell)
    Last edited by Mastikator; 2022-06-24 at 03:23 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    Summon familiar is a 1st level wizard spell. It can deliver touch spells and can receive dragon's breath (2nd level wizard spell)
    Find Familiar? Again, not disposable.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by thorr-kan View Post
    Find Familiar? Again, not disposable.
    It can die and be resummoned for a pittance of coin. What are you looking to accomplish with this setup?
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    A fully disposable minion does not exist at level 1.
    Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    A fully disposable minion should not exist at level 1
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Just, please don't. Insisting on that technicality improves nothing.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Y'all are making Unseen Servant sad. It's not a (very good) combat minion, but it is a minion.
    Quote Originally Posted by ff7hero View Post
    Call me Hero,

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    What we need is an Eldritch Invocation that lets you cast Unseen Servant or Animal Friendship at will, expending a spell slot or material components. Like Misty Visions does for Silent Image.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by NaughtyTiger View Post
    A fully disposable minion should not exist at level 1
    I disagree, as long there's an action economy limitation on it. For example, a summoned minion that can take no action without the caster spending an action of his own. I wouldn't have any issue with that as a first level spell.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by thorr-kan View Post
    What we need is an Eldritch Invocation that lets you cast Unseen Servant or Animal Friendship at will, expending a spell slot or material components. Like Misty Visions does for Silent Image.
    there already is one: Book of Ancient Secrets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    I disagree, as long there's an action economy limitation on it. For example, a summoned minion that can take no action without the caster spending an action of his own. I wouldn't have any issue with that as a first level spell.
    You mean beastmaster/warlock companion?
    Last edited by NaughtyTiger; 2022-06-24 at 08:10 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Well we already have spells for beasts, celestials, fey, undead, fiends, elementals, aberrations, so what if a 1st level summon was a slime? Short duration and concentration coupled with their slow movement speed and low AC will limit their usefulness, but they would still be a useful sack of HP with a nonstandard damage type
    Roll for it
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Well we already have spells for beasts, celestials, fey, undead, fiends, elementals, aberrations, so what if a 1st level summon was a slime? Short duration and concentration coupled with their slow movement speed and low AC will limit their usefulness, but they would still be a useful sack of HP with a nonstandard damage type
    yes, another damage dealer/target would be useful.
    Is it needed? No
    Does it help the game? No
    Does it step on the toes of other players? Likely...
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Just, please don't. Insisting on that technicality improves nothing.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by thorr-kan View Post
    What we need is an Eldritch Invocation that lets you cast Unseen Servant or Animal Friendship at will, expending a spell slot or material components. Like Misty Visions does for Silent Image.
    Ritual Caster?
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by NaughtyTiger View Post
    yes, another damage dealer/target would be useful.
    Is it needed? No
    Does it help the game? No
    Does it step on the toes of other players? Likely...
    Personally, for overall game health I agree. But it might be helpful for the OPs table specifically.
    Roll for it
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by NaughtyTiger View Post
    there already is one: Book of Ancient Secrets.
    Does not allow unlimited casting of a first level spell. Allows *ritual* casting, but Misty Vision is the guide I'm looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    Ritual Caster?
    Nope, see above.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by thorr-kan View Post
    Does not allow unlimited casting of a first level spell. Allows *ritual* casting, but Misty Vision is the guide I'm looking for.


    Nope, see above.
    Nothing at level 1 gives you unlimited casting of spells, outside of ritual casting. I don't think there's any issue with an invocation giving you unlimited casting of unseen servant, with a limit on how many you can have. Either just 1, up to maybe allowing a number equal to your proficiency bonus. But you won't get anything RAW that does what you're asking for, if rituals aren't acceptable.
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by thorr-kan View Post
    Does not allow unlimited casting of a first level spell. Allows *ritual* casting, but Misty Vision is the guide I'm looking for.

    so you changed from 'summoning 1/day with magic initiate' to 'at-will casting of a combat spell'.
    normally, that is a 17th level wizard ability, but sure, giving that to a 2nd level PC is reasonable
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Just, please don't. Insisting on that technicality improves nothing.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by NaughtyTiger View Post
    so you changed from 'summoning 1/day with magic initiate' to 'at-will casting of a combat spell'.
    normally, that is a 17th level wizard ability, but sure, giving that to a 2nd level PC is reasonable
    Well, to be fair there is a precedent for this kind of thing. The wizard gets the fighter's level 19 ability at level 4.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    You could skip all that and convince the DM to accept your sidekicks rule. Choose a CR 1/2 monster and give it class levels. I've had some thoroughly enjoyable moments this way.

    http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/sidekicks
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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    I'm still not sure what the OP is trying to accomplish.

    Find Familiar can do pretty much everything except for direct attacks (scout, trigger traps, hand potions, etc), I'm not sure why they are not disposable, if its because of the 10 gp... well, that's something I'd consider disposable.

    If its a damage dealing minion you are looking for Investment of the Chain Master appears at level 3. Not the gratest, but its something.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueJK View Post
    Unseen Servant is about the only other Level 1 summoning spell, and its combat applications are limited to basic object interactions like pouring oil or caltrops on the floor.
    Don't forget giving healing potions to fallen comrades! Many DMs won't allow familiars to do it because of their usual anatomy, but an Unseen Servant doesn't have that issue.

  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Inevitability's Avatar

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Create Bonfire is kinda like a low-level summon, in the sense that you create something which sticks around for the duration of combat (or concentration), it serves as a sort of area denial, and it deals damage independent of your actions.

    It can't move like other summons (though I'm wondering if you could cast it on a plant caddy and roll it around?), but if you want something with summoning flavor at early levels it could be refluffed as a small immobile elemental (ask your DM to swap out fire for acid damage, and it would kinda fit the ooze summon Kane0 mentioned).

    Cloud of Daggers, Flaming Sphere, and Dust Devil can also be represented as 'summons' in this sense, as they too provide battlefield presence and independent sources of damage.

    Again, it'd help to hear what purpose you're going for. Familiars can do basically anything outside of combat, the spells above can be slightly refluffed to work fine in combat, and unseen servants are a solid mix of both.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2022-06-25 at 06:20 AM.
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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    That the iconic familiar - companion, assistant, confidant, friend - has been reduced to "disposable" in 5e is the greatest tragedy of all.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warder View Post
    That the iconic familiar - companion, assistant, confidant, friend - has been reduced to "disposable" in 5e is the greatest tragedy of all.
    My Warlock named his first Imp familiar Neville and was somewhat distraught when it died. I feel you
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  28. - Top - End - #28
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by thorr-kan View Post
    Does not allow unlimited casting of a first level spell. Allows *ritual* casting, but Misty Vision is the guide I'm looking for.


    Nope, see above.

    Also note that neither of those options allows you to cast Animal Friendship.

    There is a way of gaining Animal Friendship at will at 1st level but it requires being a Yuan-ti Pureblood

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    Nothing at level 1 gives you unlimited casting of spells, outside of ritual casting. I don't think there's any issue with an invocation giving you unlimited casting of unseen servant, with a limit on how many you can have. Either just 1, up to maybe allowing a number equal to your proficiency bonus. But you won't get anything RAW that does what you're asking for, if rituals aren't acceptable.
    VHuman with Eldritch Adept feat for the Misty Vision or Armor of Shadow Eldritch Invocations give you unlimited, at-will, no material component castings of Silent Image or Mage Armor. Unlimited casting of a 1st-level spell as a 1st-level character.

    But an actual, summonable creature as a similar power is probably too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by NaughtyTiger View Post
    so you changed from 'summoning 1/day with magic initiate' to 'at-will casting of a combat spell'.
    normally, that is a 17th level wizard ability, but sure, giving that to a 2nd level PC is reasonable
    No, you're right. I was moving the goalposts there.

    Just because some 1st-level spells can be acquired at will doesn't mean all of them should be acquirable. Summon Me An Ultra Minor Minion is probably one that shouldn't, in spite of the Yuan-Ti Animal Friendship example. Unseen Servant has some possibilities, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warder View Post
    That the iconic familiar - companion, assistant, confidant, friend - has been reduced to "disposable" in 5e is the greatest tragedy of all.
    I hear you. I play mainly 2E; the missing consequences in 5E are a Thing, but not the Thing I'll discuss here. Note that I due play and enjoy 5E. And that's why, just not a familiar. Supposedly, you give a d*mn about a familiar; a random summon? Not so much.
    Last edited by thorr-kan; 2022-06-25 at 02:19 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    sandmote's Avatar

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    Default Re: Are there any low-level creature summoning or conjuring spells?

    Lost Laboratory of Kwalish does include a Flock of Familiars spell, which creates 2-3 additional familiars that you don't really care about; it's a 2nd level spell though.

    5e has the philosophy that there shouldn't be many spell with overlapping mechanics. So there's one level 1 summon you are expected to care about (the familiar) and one level 1 summon for when you want something disposable (the Unseen Servant).

    Aside from that, I think combat summons at 1st level could quickly become a balance issue, due to 5e's attempts at bounded accuracy. Whatever you summon at 1st level in 5e is still able to reasonably hit things at the point when 3.5e enemies would all have AC 19 points higher than its attack bonus.

    Although if you do want a 5e 1st level summon spell, I'd maybe do something with swarms. Concentration for 1 minute and unless you spend an action to dissipate the swarm before the spell ends, it remains hostile for a few rounds before dissipating? So you can get the tools to be a summoner at 1st level, but its risky enough that everyone doesn't take it as a backup option.

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