What things does xykon "need"

[WolvesbaneIII]

I was reading through some D&D stuff and I read that liches require to eat souls.

Now I don't know if this applies to 3rd edition or if its just a thing that applies to some of the specific liches or its all of them.

Xykon does not need rest, sleep or to eat.

What does he need to function? to exist? besides mass slaughter? and other impractical jokes?

Can anyone confirm what a lich needs to have in order to exist or is it just a phylactery in the 3rd edition?

[Peelee]

I was reading through some D&D stuff and I read that liches require to eat souls.

Now I don't know if this applies to 3rd edition or if its just a thing that applies to some of the specific liches or its all of them.

Xykon does not need rest, sleep or to eat.

What does he need to function? to exist?

Entertainment.

[KillianHawkeye]

I was reading through some D&D stuff and I read that liches require to eat souls.

Where did you read this? I've never heard of anything like that before.

[hamishspence]

Where did you read this? I've never heard of anything like that before.

Probably in a source tied to 5e. The 5e MM has for liches "must periodically feed souls to its phylactery, or it will eventually fall apart, becoming a demilich"

But 3e doesn't have that - and instead has demiliches as as very much an upgrade, rather than a downgrade.

[WolvesbaneIII]

Probably in a source tied to 5e. The 5e MM has for liches "must periodically feed souls to its phylactery, or it will eventually fall apart, becoming a demilich"

But 3e doesn't have that - and instead has demiliches as as very much an upgrade, rather than a downgrade.

thats probably it.

so liches can just keep existing without needing to eat, drink or sleep.

and aside from some mechanics that reduce xp they seemingly have no drawbacks.

Or do they? what drawbacks do liches have?

[Fyraltari]

thats probably it.

so liches can just keep existing without needing to eat, drink or sleep.

and aside from some mechanics that reduce xp they seemingly have no drawbacks.

Or do they? what drawbacks do liches have?

Almost no sense of smell and taste, probably not a whole lot of touch either, no sleep and no friends.

[brian 333]

thats probably it.

so liches can just keep existing without needing to eat, drink or sleep.

and aside from some mechanics that reduce xp they seemingly have no drawbacks.

Or do they? what drawbacks do liches have?

While powerful, they are still undead. With all of the various items and spells devoted to the destruction of undead, listing their immunities is easier than their vulnerabilities.

There is a level 7 spell, Command Undead, and of course, undead are vulnerable to Turn Undead attempts. Either of these would anger Xykon when they end, so it's probably best to make sure he doesn't survive the experience.

Redcloak has the levels to use either against Xykon. Durkon would need a really good roll on his attempt, but it is within the realm of possible if the thread on character levels is anywhere near accurate.

Sunburst is also particularly useful versus undead. Vaarsuvius should be able to inflict 16 or more d6 damage to Xykon or 8d6 if Xykon Reflex saves against it. This would also inflict 6d6 on Redcloak and MitD, and give us our first glimpse of MitD because it negates non-epic darkness.

Roy's sword has also been shown to be damaging to Xykon, and of course, the ghost martyrs were tearing him a new one with positive energy right before Miko destroyed the object to which they were bound.

An epic Mace of Disruption would come in handy in Minrah's hands, if anyone knows where to find one.

[WolvesbaneIII]

While powerful, they are still undead. With all of the various items and spells devoted to the destruction of undead, listing their immunities is easier than their vulnerabilities.

There is a level 7 spell, Command Undead, and of course, undead are vulnerable to Turn Undead attempts. Either of these would anger Xykon when they end, so it's probably best to make sure he doesn't survive the experience.

Redcloak has the levels to use either against Xykon. Durkon would need a really good roll on his attempt, but it is within the realm of possible if the thread on character levels is anywhere near accurate.

Sunburst is also particularly useful versus undead. Vaarsuvius should be able to inflict 16 or more d6 damage to Xykon or 8d6 if Xykon Reflex saves against it. This would also inflict 6d6 on Redcloak and MitD, and give us our first glimpse of MitD because it negates non-epic darkness.

Roy's sword has also been shown to be damaging to Xykon, and of course, the ghost martyrs were tearing him a new one with positive energy right before Miko destroyed the object to which they were bound.

An epic Mace of Disruption would come in handy in Minrah's hands, if anyone knows where to find one.

ok, but aside from some weakness to things that typically hurt undead, the lich does not need anything to exist.

I guess I was not really clear.

if you lock a vampire in a space that it can't get out of, it will need blood to survive or it dies or becomes feral or whatever.

if you lock an orc in a space it will die of hunger and lack of water. or lack of air if it has no air in said space.

A lich would continue to exist in said space it can't get out of. it needs not the likes of food, water, or even air. it would just be REALLY bored.

[ff7hero]

Almost no sense of smell and taste, probably not a whole lot of touch either, no sleep and no friends.

Practically speaking, lacking a sense of touch would make one extremely clumsy. He can speak without any of the usual tools for that and he isn't constantly tripping and dropping things, so he probably has some magic sense of touch.

[brian 333]

ok, but aside from some weakness to things that typically hurt undead, the lich does not need anything to exist.

I guess I was not really clear.

if you lock a vampire in a space that it can't get out of, it will need blood to survive or it dies or becomes feral or whatever.

if you lock an orc in a space it will die of hunger and lack of water. or lack of air if it has no air in said space.

A lich would continue to exist in said space it can't get out of. it needs not the likes of food, water, or even air. it would just be REALLY bored.

Liches have issues with boredom anyway. That's where demiliches come from.

The lich, having defeated anything that matters to it, uses Astral Projection to travel the multiverse, exploring strange new worlds and terminating new life and new civilizations.

Its corpse, safely secured in the stronghold of the lich, remains as a safety device in case the astral form, or a physical form manifested on another plane by the lich, is destroyed. At that point the silver cord anchoring the lich to its corpse snaps the wandering spirit back to its body.

Demiliches occur after ages of abandonment of the corpse. Its magical animation allows the corpse to perform as if it remembers what it was when it had a soul, but it can't really do much but react. A lich can return to its corpse if it feels threatened, but usually by this stage of its unlife it has forgotten about its body.

Demi in demilich refers to the fact that it is only half a lich: the physical part. That's why they tend to be weaker in combat than a true lich. First edition demiliches would even forget they were in a fight after launching a few powerful spells.

[Crimsonmantle]

Tsukiko knew what he needs.

[Squire Doodad]

I was about to say a lack of an AMF, but I think that just screws with his magic instead of being lethal outright.

[The MunchKING]

There is a level 7 spell, Command Undead, and of course, undead are vulnerable to Turn Undead attempts. Either of these would anger Xykon when they end, so it's probably best to make sure he doesn't survive the experience.

Redcloak has the levels to use either against Xykon.

IIRC Liches get a +8 to levels to resist turning attempts, so I'm not even Redcloak could do it without really good rolls.

Apparently IDNRC, the SRD says it's only a +4 resistance to turning. Still needs them good rolls.

[Fyraltari]

Practically speaking, lacking a sense of touch would make one extremely clumsy. He can speak without any of the usual tools for that and he isn't constantly tripping and dropping things, so he probably has some magic sense of touch.

That's why I said "not a whole lot". He obviously can feel the objects he's touching, ptherwise he'd break them with his inhuman strength, but I doubt he can feel a light breeze or the sun on his skull and all the other subtler feelings that come with having skin.

[brian 333]

I suppose a 'best answer' to the OP is that a lich needs nothing.

It's phylactery is an insurance policy: it is only needed when its corpse is destroyed. Otherwise, a lich can continue indefinitely without one, and make a new one if its old one is destroyed.

A lich has no food requirement. Its sustenance is derived from the magic which created it. Physically, its requirements are those of an animated skeleton.

[Lord Torath]

That's why I said "not a whole lot". He obviously can feel the objects he's touching, ptherwise he'd break them with his inhuman strength, but I doubt he can feel a light breeze or the sun on his skull and all the other subtler feelings that come with having skin.

I was under the impression that liches had roughly human-strength. Did they get a strength boost in 3.0/3.5? In 2E anyway, their damage came from their chill touch, not from their presumably-mage-level strength.

[Fyraltari]

I was under the impression that liches had roughly human-strength.

Don't know about liches in general, but Xykon certainly does.

[dancrilis]

Can anyone confirm what a lich needs to have in order to exist or is it just a phylactery in the 3rd edition?

He only needs the phylactery in the event that he is destroyed - in general he needs nothing, in theory he could bury himself in the sand for ten thousand years and emerge as if nothing has happened.

Almost no sense of smell and taste, probably not a whole lot of touch either, no sleep and no friends.

Liches don't normally lose smell or touch to memory (in fact they get better as wisdom covers things like perception).

Spoiler: SOD

Show

Taste he did lose - but Redcloak didn't know he would.

Apparently IDNRC, the SRD says it's only a +4 resistance to turning. Still needs them good rolls.

Unless Redcloak is the same level as Xykon (or has items etc to help) I don't think he can do it with good rolls - he needs a 22 or higher on his turning check to hit his level +4 and Xykon treats himself as having a +4 level due to turn resistance (or such is my reading).

[Alcore]

I was reading through some D&D stuff and I read that liches require to eat souls.

Now I don't know if this applies to 3rd edition or if its just a thing that applies to some of the specific liches or its all of them.

I don’t recall 3.5 saying anything… I think they did souls in 2e and some 5e material brings it back. If 3e had it it then went missing from 3.5.

As much as I love them not reprinting sometimes you need too or things are lost.

[KorvinStarmast]

Tsukiko knew what he needs.

*snicker*
But to answer your question:
What things does Xykon "need?"
Taste buds.

[brian 333]

*snicker*
But to answer your question:
What things does Xykon "need?"
Taste buds.

And a thneed. Everybody needs a thneed.

[Precure]

Friendship.

[137beth]

Friendship.

So he needs to get the roaches to sing that song from Anything Goes?

[Satohika]

He needs to die for everyone's sake.

[WanderingMist]

Sunburst is also particularly useful versus undead. Vaarsuvius should be able to inflict 16 or more d6 damage to Xykon or 8d6 if Xykon Reflex saves against it. This would also inflict 6d6 on Redcloak and MitD, and give us our first glimpse of MitD because it negates non-epic darkness.

Pretty bold to assume the umbrella isn't using epic darkness. Or something somehow even higher.

[brian 333]

Pretty bold to assume the umbrella isn't using epic darkness. Or something somehow even higher.

I'm a bold person who isn't afraid of being wrong. I started a thread once about how many times I can be wrong. I still owe Peelee enough Canadian dollars to cover the cost of sixty quatloos.

(Don't tell him. I told him I put the money under the same rock I got the quatloos from.)

But, pray tell, why would a darkness device ever need to be epic? It's entire purpose is to being a running gag, so if it ever fails prematurely, I'm sure there will be a curtain or column, or something, blocking our line of sight.

[Peelee]

I still owe Peelee enough Canadian dollars to cover the cost of sixty quatloos.

I have zero objection to CAD but I do demand it be paid in either r loonies or toonies. I am willing to accept other forms of CAD assuming their names are ridiculous enough.

[Malloon]

A sense of purpose. Fun. Sanity. Friends. A conscience. Insert joke or seemingly profound sentiment here.

Liches have issues with boredom anyway. That's where demiliches come from.

The lich, having defeated anything that matters to it, uses Astral Projection to travel the multiverse, exploring strange new worlds and terminating new life and new civilizations.

Its corpse, safely secured in the stronghold of the lich, remains as a safety device in case the astral form, or a physical form manifested on another plane by the lich, is destroyed. At that point the silver cord anchoring the lich to its corpse snaps the wandering spirit back to its body.

Demiliches occur after ages of abandonment of the corpse. Its magical animation allows the corpse to perform as if it remembers what it was when it had a soul, but it can't really do much but react. A lich can return to its corpse if it feels threatened, but usually by this stage of its unlife it has forgotten about its body.

Demi in demilich refers to the fact that it is only half a lich: the physical part. That's why they tend to be weaker in combat than a true lich. First edition demiliches would even forget they were in a fight after launching a few powerful spells.

That actually sounds like quite a fun afterlife - besides the part about "terminating new life and new civilisations". They could potentially offer entertainment years to millennia to millions of years down the line, why destroy them now? Very wasteful.

[PontificatusRex]

Taste buds.

Okay, but seriously, yes.

Xykon really valued the small pleasures in life. He enjoyed playing the role of the villain to the hilt in this sword and sorcery cliche world, but after the plumbing stopped working a good cup of coffee was what it was all about.

Obviously, there's no feasible way the Order could stumble on this information, but I really think that if the heroes could figure out away to restore a lich's ability to taste he would absolutely trade that for giving up on his plan for the Gates, like in a second. Sadly, liches are immune to illusion so Elan can't just create an illusion of a really good (or really bad) cup of coffee, but liches can see without eyes and hear without ears. I assume that whoever created the original ritual to transform into a lich thought that seeing and hearing were important for getting around and survival in general and so figured out a way to make those senses work without their organic components, but didn't think it worthwhile include taste and smell as part of the magic. If there was a way to give a lich the ability to taste, I really think it would be a total game changer.

[woweedd]

Okay, but seriously, yes.

Xykon really valued the small pleasures in life. He enjoyed playing the role of the villain to the hilt in this sword and sorcery cliche world, but after the plumbing stopped working a good cup of coffee was what it was all about.

Obviously, there's no feasible way the Order could stumble on this information, but I really think that if the heroes could figure out away to restore a lich's ability to taste he would absolutely trade that for giving up on his plan for the Gates, like in a second. Sadly, liches are immune to illusion so Elan can't just create an illusion of a really good (or really bad) cup of coffee, but liches can see without eyes and hear without ears. I assume that whoever created the original ritual to transform into a lich thought that seeing and hearing were important for getting around and survival in general and so figured out a way to make those senses work without their organic components, but didn't think it worthwhile include taste and smell as part of the magic. If there was a way to give a lich the ability to taste, I really think it would be a total game changer.

I mean, even if they could, I feel like they'd feel kinda obliged to take him down, being as A. They're good people, and adventurers at that and B. He's a ruthless monster who spends all his time inflicting pain and death upon others for his amusement, and, while giving him back on of the other joys in his life may help that, I doubt he'd cease to be an evil monster who is a threat to, like, everyone on the planet every second he spends un-dead. I mean, he was murdering animals for fun at age 4, and killed his own parents, along with a disabled man, at age 12. Basically, I don't think the odds of Xykon being dealt with diplomatically is....At all.