5e archery build advice

[herrhauptmann]

I'm playing a game at the library with a couple d&d newbies, one of whom wants to play an archer rather than using a pre-made character provided by the dm. I'd like to help him, but I'm still new to 5e myself.

Most books are available, even the UA playtest stuff, though I'd like to be fair to the other newbies and not use blatantly broken stuff.
Level 4.
Stats: 8,10,12,14,16,18 before any racial abilities. (Very nice)

I think he has a few class options that will be effective, but would like to check.

1. Fighter
2. Rogue. Assassin for sure. Soul knife with throwing the blades would be effective, but he wants a bow.
3. Ranger. Archery style. Close quarters shooter.

Necessary feats.
Pretty [sure] sharpshooter is necessary, but it looks like close quarters ranger essentially gets it for free.
Anything else I should look at?

Thank you

Edit. Forgot a word

[Eldariel]

Well, on this level the top two options are:
- Battlemaster Fighter with Archery style.
- Gloomstalker Ranger.

Both are really good and pretty trivial to build: for Fighter, pick up like Precision Attack and maybe Menacing Strike or Trip Attack, add perhaps Ambush and you're good to go. Gloomstalker can OTOH pick up like Hunter's Mercy, Goodberry and whatever and do just fine for themselves. Yeah, Sharpshooter is great and you should absolutely pick it up. If you pick a race with a bonus feat (Variant Human or Custom Lineage), you could also get Crossbow Expert and use Hand Crossbow for the full setup (essentially doubling your shots). In this edition you usually end up using Crossbows since they're just better though you can make Longbow work: it has a niche with the maximal range.


A bit more off-the-wall if he wanted some casting in lieu of all it would be (Half-)Elf Bladesinger Wizard (using familiar to grant advantage; if familiar dies, get a new one) or Swords Bard (that can use its Flourishes at range). For the Bladesinger, Elven Accuracy would be a good use of the 4th level feat while the Swords Bard makes good use of Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter. Those stats would make for one scary Bladesinger actually.

All of them would put highest stat in Dex, second highest in either Con (Fighter, Ranger?) or casting stat (Int for Wizard, Cha for Bard). Third stat is Con or Wis and it goes down from there. Best race is Variant Human (except for Bladesinger who needs proficiencies to use bows)


Oh yeah, Kensei Monk could be good in a level or two too.

[herrhauptmann]

Well, on this level the top two options are:
- Battlemaster Fighter with Archery style.
- Gloomstalker Ranger.

Both are really good and pretty trivial to build: for Fighter, pick up like Precision Attack and maybe Menacing Strike or Trip Attack, add perhaps Ambush and you're good to go. Gloomstalker can OTOH pick up like Hunter's Mercy, Goodberry and whatever and do just fine for themselves. Yeah, Sharpshooter is great and you should absolutely pick it up. If you pick a race with a bonus feat (Variant Human or Custom Lineage), you could also get Crossbow Expert and use Hand Crossbow for the full setup (essentially doubling your shots). In this edition you usually end up using Crossbows since they're just better though you can make Longbow work: it has a niche with the maximal range.
.

Thank you, I hadn't thought of directing him to monk.

[Eldariel]

Oh and Close Quarters Shooter is pretty bad. Sharpshooter works at any range and more importantly, has the -5/+10 option which can convert the Archery fighting style (+2 to hit, huge in a bounded accuracy system - it's probably the best fighting style) into damage (basically +4 damage). Here the character can start with 20 Dex which leaves the character able to attack at +4 for 1d8+15. Gloom Stalker or Action Surging Fighter could do it twice. And Battlemaster can add Precision Attack if the attack misses (meanwhile, Gloomstalker is invisible to Darkvision so in darkness, he just automatically has advantage).

Bladesinger and Monk would love those stats. Bladesinger can take Sharpshooter on 4 and go like 20 Dex, 17 Int and have access to 21 AC with Bladesong while also shooting at +2 with advantage (familiar can easily grant advantage by using Help; Owl is the strongest option since it has Flyby to do that without exposing itself to OAs or melee: it flies in, Helps and flies out followed by you shooting). Though you need to switch to Hand Crossbow for when you want to use Bladesong since Bladesong ends when you attack with a two-handed weapon, which Longbow is.

Kensei OTOH would have really nice AC and solid melee backup plan on level 5 with Stunning Strike (Bladesinger is obviously fine in melee too if need be) and it gets the ability to bonus attack with Longbow thanks to Ki-Fueled Attacks once you hit the level 6 ability "Deft Strike" to add Martial Arts damage with the use of Ki; there are very few ways to do that.

[animorte]

Thank you, I hadn't thought of directing him to monk.

That’s funny because the whole time I was reading it thinking, “where’s the Kensei Monk?”

Oh, there it is.

[meandean]

Samurai is another option if you think Battle Master stuff might be too fiddly for a new player. All you have to decide is when to use your Fighting Spirit, which automatically works. This can of course be maximized by Elven Accuracy.

[RogueJK]

Monk and Ranger are certainly good options for an Archer, but they present added complexity that could overwhelm a brand new player.

Battlemaster Fighter with Archery Fighting Style and Sharpshooter probably hits the sweet spot of "simple enough for a newbie, but enough options to keep it from getting boring (like a Champion might)".

Grab the Precision Attack Maneuver to help counteract the Sharpshooter penalty on important rolls, plus a couple other useful/interesting Maneuvers like Disarming, Goading, Maneuvering, or Pushing. Explain how/when to use Sharpshooter and what the various Maneuvers do. Then let them go to town.


Something like this:
Custom Lineage Battlemaster Fighter 4
STR 8
DEX 18+2
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 10
ASIs: Sharpshooter at Level 1, Magic Initiate Cleric at Level 4
Racial Darkvision
Fighter Skills: Acrobatics, Perception
Investigator Background Skills: Stealth, Investigation, Disguise Kit, Thieves Tools
Archery Fighting Style
Maneuvers: Precision, Goading, Pushing
Cleric Cantrips: Guidance (for boosting their skill rolls), Mending (for repairing their recovered arrows)
Cleric Spell: Bless

This gets them a few Maneuvers per Short Rest, a couple utility Cantrips to play with, and 1x/day Bless spellcasting, along with an out of combat sneaking/scouting/trap disarming/lockpicking role. So they can be a very effective Archer, plus dabble in some skills, some spells, and some combat maneuver options, all without getting overwhelmed.

[animorte]

I would personally run my very favorite, Swarmkeeper Ranger. Mage Hand provides some fancy utility. Then your ability allows you to deal extra damage, push an enemy, or some free movement yourself.

For the most part you can play basic archer-type if you want, but allows a couple of those fancy options when you grow accustomed to the character.

[herrhauptmann]

Samurai is another option if you think Battle Master stuff might be too fiddly for a new player. All you have to decide is when to use your Fighting Spirit, which automatically works. This can of course be maximized by Elven Accuracy.

Am I reading Elven Accuracy right? It's like having 3 advantage dice instead of 2?

He's new to tabletop gaming, but I don't think Battlemaster itself should be too fiddly. That said, advantage for an entire turn is pretty nice; especially coupled with free temp HP.

[animorte]

Am I reading Elven Accuracy right? It's like having 3 advantage dice instead of 2?

I believe technically you can only have advantage or disadvantage, no stacking. Though I have also read somewhere (maybe a variant/optional rule) that it comes into play when you have advantage and disadvantage neutralizing one another, then further adv/dis states can be take into account as”tie-breaker”. Of course I could be wrong, not at the moment in a position to research.

[Dualight]

The official rule for having both advantage and disadvantage is that they cancel out fully. That is, 100 disadvantage, but 1 advantage = normal roll.
As for Elven Accuracy, it turns advantage into a best-of-3 instead of best-of-2, but only on attack rolls that use DEX, INT, WIS, or CHA. It is a racial feat for (half-) elves only, so it might be a little too far out of the way for a new player.

[nickl_2000]

I would personally run my very favorite, Swarmkeeper Ranger. Mage Hand provides some fancy utility. Then your ability allows you to deal extra damage, push an enemy, or some free movement yourself.

For the most part you can play basic archer-type if you want, but allows a couple of those fancy options when you grow accustomed to the character.

Can confirm, this build is effective and fun. The damage is good, the swarmkeeper options give good different abilities and options more than just shooting over and over again.

It does loss some luster I'm tier 3 though

[Eldariel]

Am I reading Elven Accuracy right? It's like having 3 advantage dice instead of 2?

He's new to tabletop gaming, but I don't think Battlemaster itself should be too fiddly. That said, advantage for an entire turn is pretty nice; especially coupled with free temp HP.

Elven Accuracy is indeed good. To be clear, it modifies advantage: so when you have advantage, you roll 3 dice and pick the best instead of 2. Makes criticals more likely and also makes hits all but guaranteed. Sadly to make the most of it you want Sharpshooter (which lets you convert hit rate to damage, which is a great conversion if you have high probability of hitting such as Archery style, high Dex and Elven Accuracy-enhanced advantage)...and the only way to get two feats on this level is to be of a feat bonus race (Variant Human or Custom Lineage) neither of which is an Elf. So Elven Accuracy + Sharpshooter is not yet accessible before level 8.

But basic advantage is still good; that said, also Battlemaster's Precision Attack combines beautifully with Sharpshooter to make landing those attacks more likely. So if I went this route, to hit hard, I'd probably go Samurai with Sharpshooter. That said, notice that Samurai can only use Fighting Spirit three times per long rest while Battlemaster's dice come back on a short rest so in that sense, Samurai probably has less tools for the long run. It's still a solid class though and Fighting Spirit Action Surge turns can see some substantial work being done (though it really comes onto its own on level 5 where Extra Attack essentially doubles the power of Action Surge: four attacks instead of two is very, very substantial and advantage + archery style makes it quite possible to land all of them).


If I were to give one to a new player who needs very simple mechanic, Samurai is better while Battlemaster is better if the player enjoys some decisions.

[Hytheter]

Oh and Close Quarters Shooter is pretty bad.

Huh? That's crazy talk. +1 to hit and shooting in Melee are more than worth a fighting style. Is it as good as default Archery? Maybe not, but it's surely worth considering - and they also stack.

[Eldariel]

Huh? That's crazy talk. +1 to hit and shooting in Melee are more than worth a fighting style. Is it as good as default Archery? Maybe not, but it's surely worth considering - and they also stack.

What anything is "worth" is merely a factor of the alternatives. In this case Archery is just better. To get a second one, you need to either dip or spend a feat (or be a high level Champion, I guess). If you do pick up a second one, it's worth considering but Superior Technique does probably come out ahead if you get maneuvers. And it is certainly weaker than an ASI or a feat.

[meandean]

Elven Accuracy is indeed good. To be clear, it modifies advantage: so when you have advantage, you roll 3 dice and pick the best instead of 2. Makes criticals more likely and also makes hits all but guaranteed. Sadly to make the most of it you want Sharpshooter (which lets you convert hit rate to damage, which is a great conversion if you have high probability of hitting such as Archery style, high Dex and Elven Accuracy-enhanced advantage)...and the only way to get two feats on this level is to be of a feat bonus race (Variant Human or Custom Lineage) neither of which is an Elf. So Elven Accuracy + Sharpshooter is not yet accessible before level 8.

6 if you're a Samurai or Battle Master, since they're Fighters.

[Eldariel]

6 if you're a Samurai or Battle Master, since they're Fighters.

True! And Samurai Sharpshooter is very solid even without EA.