Thor 4 *spoilers*

[Wintermoot]

I agree, the narrative of Thor 4 did not.

The narrative of Thor 4 didn't say the gods were scummy because they were hiding in Immortopolis (or whatever it was called), it suggested they were scummy because the first agenda item in their conclave was an award ceremony for which god tricked the most mortals into sacrificing themselves for the god's glory.

At least the version I watched.

[Angelalex242]

Still, I imagine Wakanda would be rather disappointed in Bast. I'm fairly certain they'd expect Bast to get off her butt and fight alongside Thor. Particularly since Wakanda all personally witnessed what Thor can do in Infinity War. Sure, Thor goofed at the end, but holy hell was he kicking ass before that.

[Ramza00]

Killmonger would likely go after many other deities first for reasons I'll leave alone here, unless of course she got in his way.

(That would make a great What-If come to think of it.)

Yes, I agree.

[Psyren]

Still, I imagine Wakanda would be rather disappointed in Bast. I'm fairly certain they'd expect Bast to get off her butt and fight alongside Thor. Particularly since Wakanda all personally witnessed what Thor can do in Infinity War. Sure, Thor goofed at the end, but holy hell was he kicking ass before that.

I'm not sure that's Bast's portfolio. Not every god is as much of a fighter as Thor.

[Trafalgar]

I just realized Zeus has appeared in movies in both the Marvel and DC cinematic universes. Perhaps a big crossover is in the works.

Perhaps I can finally resolve the argument my best friend and I have been having for the past 30 years: Who would win in a fight: Green Arrow or Hawkeye?

[The Glyphstone]

Saw it. Okay, not quite as good as Ragnarok but I cant pin my finger exactly on why.

Though with how they love to strip mine the comics, is

Spoiler

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Gorr's resurrected daughter

A pre-existing character?

[Psyren]

Saw it. Okay, not quite as good as Ragnarok but I cant pin my finger exactly on why.

Though with how they love to strip mine the comics, is

Spoiler

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Gorr's resurrected daughter

A pre-existing character?

Yes... and no.

Spoiler

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There is a character named Love in the Marvel Comics, and she's one of the universe's cosmic embodiment entities like Death (Comic Thanos' main squeeze.) It's possible, given her brief starry Eternity-like appearance and her inexplicable powers, that this is who Gorr's daughter is meant to be, eventually.

However, there's another wrinkle - the comics contain another little girl with Eternity's starry appearance, an entity named Singularity who has very similar powers to Eternity. So it's possible that the MCU is combining Love and Singularity into a bit of a composite character, or doing something else entirely.

[Ranxerox]

Still, I imagine Wakanda would be rather disappointed in Bast. I'm fairly certain they'd expect Bast to get off her butt and fight alongside Thor. Particularly since Wakanda all personally witnessed what Thor can do in Infinity War. Sure, Thor goofed at the end, but holy hell was he kicking ass before that.

Okay, but have you ever seen a cat cross the street to help someone else? I'm sure it has happened, but it is not exactly what they are known for. Really, when you think about, the fact that Wakandans worship a cat deity, make them never helping the rest of Africa make a lot more sense.

[Angelalex242]

If we're basing Bast on cats, we should've seen her knock Zeus's drink over in the post credit cutscene.

More importantly, however, the movie is making VERY little money this weekend...there's like a 66% dropoff in cashflow.

That'll learn the MCU a lesson...nothing teaches them more than pocketbook failure.

[Psyren]

More importantly, however, the movie is making VERY little money this weekend...there's like a 66% dropoff in cashflow.

That'll learn the MCU a lesson...nothing teaches them more than pocketbook failure.

Uh... No Way Home dropped 68% the second weekend. That's pretty normal in the pandemic era It's also still in first place. Not sure what you're hoping to "teach" there.

[Dragonus45]

If we're basing Bast on cats, we should've seen her knock Zeus's drink over in the post credit cutscene.

More importantly, however, the movie is making VERY little money this weekend...there's like a 66% dropoff in cashflow.

That'll learn the MCU a lesson...nothing teaches them more than pocketbook failure.

The only way this could be called a failure is if they had some wild expectations, but given performance in the past expecting it to over deliver could well be a problem.

[Ranxerox]

If we're basing Bast on cats, we should've seen her knock Zeus's drink over in the post credit cutscene.

That would have been hilarious. Then they could have has Zeus yell, "Really, Bast? Again!?!"

[Trafalgar]

The only way this could be called a failure is if they had some wild expectations, but given performance in the past expecting it to over deliver could well be a problem.

Disney MCU seems to be going for a Quantity over Quality model with Phase 4. So I think they are fine with it as long as they make money.

[Tyndmyr]

The narrative of Thor 4 didn't say the gods were scummy because they were hiding in Immortopolis (or whatever it was called), it suggested they were scummy because the first agenda item in their conclave was an award ceremony for which god tricked the most mortals into sacrificing themselves for the god's glory.

At least the version I watched.

In retrospect, it was strange that the Godslayer's motive was to kill all the gods because they don't care about others, and his plan was to do so by kidnapping all the kids to make them walk into an obvious trap because....they care about the kids.

[GloatingSwine]

In retrospect, it was strange that the Godslayer's motive was to kill all the gods because they don't care about others, and his plan was to do so by kidnapping all the kids to make them walk into an obvious trap because....they care about the kids.

I mean he doesn't need anyone but Thor to walk into his trap, and he can tell that Thor's at least a bit different from the other gods if he's able to watch space-CNN.

(He maybe doesn't even need Thor. He does have Heimdall's son and what he actually needs is to open the Bifrost.)

[Thrudd]

In retrospect, it was strange that the Godslayer's motive was to kill all the gods because they don't care about others, and his plan was to do so by kidnapping all the kids to make them walk into an obvious trap because....they care about the kids.

Spoiler: godslayer's motive

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Yeah. The necrosword, I guess, knows that Thor cares about kids - at least the kids from his own community. The necrosword, maybe, doesn't actually care whether or not gods help people, it wants to destroy them for its own reasons. Maybe it wants the shadow realm to take over the universe, and the gods would stop that from happening. Gorr has a grievance against his gods, and the sword detected his misery and was able to possess him and easily convert his personal grievance into general hatred for all gods. Obviously, attacking gods head-on with a possessed host was not working for All-Black, even the losers on Gorr's planet were able to defeat it in combat. It had to lure gods into the shadow realm to have a chance against them, thus the kidnapping. The only way it would kill all the gods was with a wish from Eternity, and the only way to get there was a teleporting god-weapon. I guess it's psychic, prophetic, knows stuff from outside time, and that's how it knew Thor's weapon could teleport? who knows. it knows what the plot needs it to know lol. This whole story is pretty weak, tbh. It's a series of silly sequences patched together with a haphazard plot with little consideration for continuity.

[ecarden]

In retrospect, it was strange that the Godslayer's motive was to kill all the gods because they don't care about others, and his plan was to do so by kidnapping all the kids to make them walk into an obvious trap because....they care about the kids.

Was it that they don't care about others? Or that they don't care about mortals? Caring about their own kids is very different than caring about their worshippers, which is what I remember being Gorr's beef.

[Psyren]

Disney MCU seems to be going for a Quantity over Quality model with Phase 4. So I think they are fine with it as long as they make money.

It's currently ahead of Ragnarok's first two weeks (itself a pre-pandemic movie) so things aren't looking bad.

In retrospect, it was strange that the Godslayer's motive was to kill all the gods because they don't care about others, and his plan was to do so by kidnapping all the kids to make them walk into an obvious trap because....they care about the kids.

As ecarden mentioned, the kids are related to them rather than "merely" being their worshipers though. So the logic holds up somewhat.

[ecarden]

I mean, even if they hadn't cared about the kids, they might well have cared about the insult of the kids being taken.

ETA: Personally, I'd have just removed eternity and the wish altogether and had the kids be used to lever the Asgardians into assisting in Gorr's campaign against the other gods until they can turn the tables on him. If you really want Thor as dad to be your ending, there's likely to be quite a few new Asgardian orphans.

[Psyren]

If you really want Thor as dad to be your ending, there's likely to be quite a few new Asgardian orphans.

Spoiler: Ending

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You need Thor wandering the stars though, not raising a gaggle of orphans in NA. Staying at home not only limits his possibilities for adventure, it also undermines Valkyrie becoming a leader in her own right when Odin's living heir is underfoot.

Not to mention, Love is implied to be a handful - and may in fact be an aspect of Eternity herself, if not a cosmic lynchpin in her own right. (The name Love may be more than just a pithy moniker.)

[ecarden]

Spoiler: Ending

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You need Thor wandering the stars though, not raising a gaggle of orphans in NA. Staying at home not only limits his possibilities for adventure, it also undermines Valkyrie becoming a leader in her own right when Odin's living heir is underfoot.

Not to mention, Love is implied to be a handful - and may in fact be an aspect of Eternity herself, if not a cosmic lynchpin in her own right. (The name Love may be more than just a pithy moniker.)

There's plenty of other ways to get that. Introducing Eternity and the wish is just...not great. It raises all sorts of questions about the past, basically unnecessarily. There were plenty of ways for the Necrosword to artificially empower a single Asgardian orphan, who may need to be separated from the group.

[Psyren]

There's plenty of other ways to get that. Introducing Eternity and the wish is just...not great. It raises all sorts of questions about the past, basically unnecessarily. There were plenty of ways for the Necrosword to artificially empower a single Asgardian orphan, who may need to be separated from the group.

Oh I missed that - you're saying the sword should have turned one or more of the kids evil in lieu of the kidnapping plot?

[ecarden]

Oh I missed that - you're saying the sword should have turned one or more of the kids evil in lieu of the kidnapping plot?

No, sorry, I'm not being clear. So, we've got our plot up to the kidnapping. Then Gorr uses the kidnapped children to force the Asgardians to assist him in his war. They're seeking around trying to minimize the damage as they search for the kids. They finally find the kids and launch an assault to rescue them. As before, the Necrosword is destroyed, but fragments of it get in one of the kids, who has been orphaned (or if you want to be real cruel, who's parents reject them from this) empowering the kid and providing a need for them not to stick around in Asgard, but to be around Thor.

[Psyren]

No, sorry, I'm not being clear. So, we've got our plot up to the kidnapping. Then Gorr uses the kidnapped children to force the Asgardians to assist him in his war. They're seeking around trying to minimize the damage as they search for the kids. They finally find the kids and launch an assault to rescue them. As before, the Necrosword is destroyed, but fragments of it get in one of the kids, who has been orphaned (or if you want to be real cruel, who's parents reject them from this) empowering the kid and providing a need for them not to stick around in Asgard, but to be around Thor.

Ah I got you now. That assumes they want the Necrosword to be a going concern, but most of the cool things about it are tied to properties that Sony owns the film rights to, so I can understand them wanting it to be a one-and-done thing (at least for now.)

[ecarden]

Ah I got you now. That assumes they want the Necrosword to be a going concern, but most of the cool things about it are tied to properties that Sony owns the film rights to, so I can understand them wanting it to be a one-and-done thing (at least for now.)

Meh, I'd just have it end up being a generic empowering force which made other people nervous, which is basically what I'm guessing they'll do with what we actually got. Though maybe there's something special about the means of empowerment that comes up later?

[Psyren]

Meh, I'd just have it end up being a generic empowering force which made other people nervous, which is basically what I'm guessing they'll do with what we actually got. Though maybe there's something special about the means of empowerment that comes up later?

If you mean the Eternity and Celestials/Gods stuff... well, Eternals 2 has been greenlit, so signs point to yes.

[ecarden]

If you mean the Eternity and Celestials/Gods stuff... well, Eternals 2 has been greenlit, so signs point to yes.

Oh...goody...I'm really thrilled about connecting one of the weakest parts of Phase 4 to Thor. No, wait, I'm not.

ETA: More seriously, I hadn't heard that, so thanks for the heads up.

[Psyren]

"Greenlit" is perhaps a bit strong as the news is based on a leak, but the leaker has a good track record IIRC.

[Tyndmyr]

Was it that they don't care about others? Or that they don't care about mortals? Caring about their own kids is very different than caring about their worshippers, which is what I remember being Gorr's beef.

Most of the kids were not gods(or related to gods). Not every Asguardian is a god, at least...that has been the case so far in the Thor films. And he definitely takes all the kids.

[Wintermoot]

Most of the kids were not gods(or related to gods). Not every Asguardian is a god, at least...that has been the case so far in the Thor films. And he definitely takes all the kids.

I'm not really sure where or how you got that impression. Certainly, my understanding from the movies as presented, is that every member of the "Asgardian" race are "Gods". Now, Marvel in both comics and movies has been extremely lax and inconsistent about what a "God" is, but I have never seen any indication that there were "God" and "non-God" Asgardians. Sure the movie has a couple kids that say "but I'm not an Asgardian, I'm a XXX" which indicated to me that there were some foreign nationals living among the Asgardians when they migrated to midgard and those kids were probably not "Gods", but if anything that would shore up the "all Asgardians -ARE- gods" argument, not detract from it. And you can hardly expect the child-snatcher to do a passport check as they were busily kidnapping all the children in New Asgard.