Thor 4 *spoilers*

[GloatingSwine]

I'm not really sure where or how you got that impression. Certainly, my understanding from the movies as presented, is that every member of the "Asgardian" race are "Gods". Now, Marvel in both comics and movies has been extremely lax and inconsistent about what a "God" is, but I have never seen any indication that there were "God" and "non-God" Asgardians. Sure the movie has a couple kids that say "but I'm not an Asgardian, I'm a XXX" which indicated to me that there were some foreign nationals living among the Asgardians when they migrated to midgard and those kids were probably not "Gods", but if anything that would shore up the "all Asgardians -ARE- gods" argument, not detract from it. And you can hardly expect the child-snatcher to do a passport check as they were busily kidnapping all the children in New Asgard.

They weren't "foreign nationals living among the Asgardians".

They were tourists in New Asgard.

[Thrudd]

I'm not really sure where or how you got that impression. Certainly, my understanding from the movies as presented, is that every member of the "Asgardian" race are "Gods". Now, Marvel in both comics and movies has been extremely lax and inconsistent about what a "God" is, but I have never seen any indication that there were "God" and "non-God" Asgardians. Sure the movie has a couple kids that say "but I'm not an Asgardian, I'm a XXX" which indicated to me that there were some foreign nationals living among the Asgardians when they migrated to midgard and those kids were probably not "Gods", but if anything that would shore up the "all Asgardians -ARE- gods" argument, not detract from it. And you can hardly expect the child-snatcher to do a passport check as they were busily kidnapping all the children in New Asgard.

Especially as of Ragnarok, I'd say it's pretty clear most Asgardians are not gods. Or else "gods" are such a broad category of beings that they range from normal human level power to cosmic power. This film tells us that the gods Gorr wants to kill are beings with a particular level of power who can be responsible for the welfare of entire species. Normal Asgardians are not that - their non-combatant civilians have been shown to be mostly helpless without Odin, Thor or Heimdall protecting them. Even the Warriors Three and Sif are an order of magnitude weaker than Thor. Thor can get run through and survive, and so can Hela. The Warriors all went down with a single blade to the body. Valkyrie is still questionable - we haven't seen her get hit enough to know how tough she is, but it seems she doesn't have any magic power like the other gods, so she probably isn't.

[Wintermoot]

They weren't "foreign nationals living among the Asgardians".

They were tourists in New Asgard.

Again, I didn't hear any dialog or get any sense of that. The two kids who pointed out to Thor that they weren't asgardians were both non-humans. I took that to mean they were living in New Asgard and were probably brought to Midgard during the Asgardian migration. I didn't see any kids classify themselves as "human tourists". But I suppose we'll just have to agree that it isn't clear one way or the other. Either way, I wouldn't expect Gorr to take the time while kidnapping all the Asgardian children to make sure he didn't pick up some non-asgardian children at the same time.

Especially as of Ragnarok, I'd say it's pretty clear most Asgardians are not gods. Or else "gods" are such a broad category of beings that they range from normal human level power to cosmic power.

Yes, I'd say the second was accurate. "Gods" -is- such a broad category.

The best I can ascertain from the inconsistant mythology of the various movies so far, "Gods" refers to specific races of Aliens with some native tap into cosmic power. Asgardians, as a race, have such a tap. Doesn't mean they are all the same power, some are little more powerful than humans, some are Odin and Thor. But they are all "gods"

[ecarden]

The other issue is that his goal doesn't actually depend on Thor caring about them, but rather on Thor coming after him. Whether he does that out of love for the children, duty to his people, or humiliation at the insult, does not matter to Gorr.

[Angelalex242]

It matters to Gorr when he makes his wish for his daughter over making a wish to kill all Gods.

He just happened to run into the one kind compassionate deity out there and found someone he could trust.

[siqexeti]

conceptually weak project.

[The Glyphstone]

Incidentally, I loved how they handled introducing Alex. It felt very organic.

[sluggerbaloney]

Just watched it. Pretty bland to be honest. About 2 hours after I left the theater I forgot i even saw it.

but it seems she doesn't have any magic power like the other gods

Disagree. Continually getting cast in not one, but multiple mega profile projects for both TV AND film while being the most wooden, one note actor this side of Pinocchio is definitely a god like super power.

[Azuresun]

So caught it today, and it's....frustrating. My opinions--

The inconsistent tone really hurts the film. Ragnarok had the same problem with juxtaposing comic and serious, but at least the serious bits there felt more like an over-the-top rock opera that still wasn't all that serious, with Hulk fighting a giant wolf, and half the scenery budget going to replace all the bits that Cate Blanchett ate.

This was trying to mix two "ultimately tragic Faustian bargain" character arcs with mid-life-crisis Zeus, a tiresome and goofy rock man doing Drunk History recaps*, and super-powered children shooting lightning out of their toys. For me, the two tones clashed much more severely than in Ragnarok. The dramatic bits were undermined by quipping, and the comic bits often just felt rather inappropriate.

And the young Asgardians continue the Phase 4 tradition of annoying kids. Why the hell were they fighting at all? That just felt grossly irresponsible.

Just a random thought, but this movie could maybe have been better....without Thor. Have it be Jane Foster Thor vs Gorr, while original Thor is still running round doing cosmic stuff. Two mortals who make bargains with deific artifacts to pursue their goals at the expense of their lives, for a really strong central conflict. The movie could have done soooo much more with the parallels between them, and has a try when Gorr points out Jane's being used by Mjolnir, but that point just gets buried and never really addressed. Really, both of these characters needed a LOT more screentime, and Thor ends up feeling like the least interesting bit of the movie with his name on it.


* I actually felt relief when it seemed like Korg had been blown up, and hoped the movie would settle on a tone.

I'm...pretty sure Chris Hemsworth isn't going anywhere, particularly since he made it a family thing. He got his wife in on it, he got all of his kids in on it, and now his Thor movies are basically family time. ...and the next Thor movie is at the very LEAST going to have his daughter in it. By the time they make it, she'll probably be a teenager besides.

One thing I noticed was that the actor who plays Thor on stage was also played by a Hemsworth--the same guy who had the same role as in Ragnarok.

[lord_khaine]

Caught it doday and its AWESOME!
Like they had given a rock musical a 500 million budget or something.
Yeah it had its goofy moments. I could have done with the humor perhaps dialed down a smidge. Like the weapon jealousy part.

But it was wild. And fantasic. And i were flat laughting every time the goats screamed.

Also. Perhaps others wont remember the movie. I wont forget several scenes.
Jane lying in her bed, and making the choice to risk burn out the last of her life.
Or Thor turning his back on Gor. To spend his last moments with jane.

[Angelalex242]

Oh come now.

We may never know who Thor loves most...Mjolnir, Stormbreaker, or Jane?

[Palanan]

Just tried watching this on Disney+.

Managed 32 minutes before I finally quit. I can’t remember the last time I was so glad that I didn’t waste money on a theater ticket.

I dislike movies that are intentionally bad, and from what I can tell, every line in this movie was both written and directed to be intentionally bad. The scenes feel like someone filmed a stack of index cards with notes on them. They’re not real scenes, just clichés and caricatures, with the absolute minimum dialogue required to advance the “plot,” for want of a better word.

Unless it changes radically after minute 33, this is by far the worst movie in the MCU, at least for this viewer. And I won’t be watching anything by this director again.

[Dr.Samurai]

Ok... I went into this suspecting I wasn't going to like it. I hated Ragnarok, but given how much everyone liked it I figured Taika wouldn't hold back for Love and Thunder. And for the most part, that was correct.

The first half of this movie is a disjointed exposition mess. A lot of the scenes and dialogue simply have no business being in an MCU movie. Why am I watching love triangle scenes between a man and his weapons? Why am I watching scenes depicting a play about the last movie? Why am I listening to goats shrieking? So much runtime of this movie is wasted on utter nonsense, but I knew what I had gotten myself into.

The characters, especially Thor, continue to be bumbling hot messes. It was such a relief when Thor visits the kids the second time and actually gives them comfort and encourages them. I was like "thank the ****ing gods he's being like a decent freaking person for two seconds". Of course, Taika can't help himself so the scene has to get interrupted by nose tickles because someone, somewhere, will think that's funny and might chuckle. The scene on the boat where Thor encourages Jane was also excellent as well, too bad we needed to stick a rock face singing a raunchy tune right in the middle of that for no freaking reason whatsoever.

All that said... I'd say the final third or quarter of the movie picked up for me. Thor "knighting" the kids into mini-Thors I thought was great. It's a moment where he is working with what he has, he knows Gorr will take everything Thor has to defeat him, so the only option to keep these kids safe is to grant them his power. And it acknowledges his power and authority as a god that he can vest it in others. So I liked this scene a lot. Guns n Roses may have helped .

Jane choosing to sacrifice herself was also very good, and it sort of parallels the choice Gorr has to make in the end. The whole point of Thor's plea to Jane is "you can't die because we have a chance to be together". Thor's plea is no longer compelling because Jane can feel the attacks he's taking from Gorr and realizes Thor might die. If Thor dies, there's no point in Jane not picking up Mjolnir again. So she makes the choice and joins the fight. Similarly, Thor reminds Gorr what drove his entire journey in the first place, the love of his daughter and the loss of her life. Now Gorr is standing before Eternity and can make a wish, and he is faced again with the meaninglessness of his decision; if it is all about his daughter, why choose to make any other wish? I thought wishing her back and Thor and Jane agreeing to watch over her was an excellent ending.

Additional thoughts:

1. Gorr/Bale was completed wasted in much of this movie. Imagine having Christina Bale in this movie and saying "You're playing this cursed being fueled by the meaningless death of his daughter due to the indifference of the gods you revere, now you're hellbent on slaughtering all the deities in the universe. Alongside you, everyone else is going to be a total buffoon, we're going to have shrieking goats, a hammer and axe love triangle, and all sorts of other 'funny' stuff".

2. This has to be Hemsworth's best bodybuilding so far.

3. Stop reverse wielding blades. It's stupid beyond belief and looks corny as hell.

4. Something about level-ups/power buffs but man when Thor gets Zeus' thunderbolt I was like "YES!"

Anyways, Marvel needs to shift back to the other side of the spectrum a bit. Comic movies don't have to be melodramas, but we don't need this absolutely crazy chaotic disjointed takes on them either. I will say that this is probably the most "comic" MCU movie to date. I don't know anything about Mighty Thor, so maybe the movie is accurate. But Jane having cancer, Mjolnir calling to her, her being worthy all of a sudden and using the hammer to heal herself, but the hammer draining her life force somehow even though it chose her, is some straight up comic book writing shenanigans.

[Eldan]

I haven't read the comics myself, but I have friends who are huge fans of Mighty Thor, and according to them, it works in the comics. Though probably just because it has more buildup and room to breathe. Like, we never see her properly be Thor here, while in the comics, she had the role for several years. IIRC, the tension there was also that turning into Thor made her temporarily strong and healthy, but it also meant her cancer couldn't be cured, so that every time she turned back into a human, her disease got worse. So her options were either to try and stay Thor as long as possible, but eventually dying when she turned back, or giving up on being Thor and getting cured as a human instead. While also there was currently no one else who could use the power.

[tomandtish]

So caught it today, and it's....frustrating. My opinions--

The inconsistent tone really hurts the film. Ragnarok had the same problem with juxtaposing comic and serious, but at least the serious bits there felt more like an over-the-top rock opera that still wasn't all that serious, with Hulk fighting a giant wolf, and half the scenery budget going to replace all the bits that Cate Blanchett ate.

This was trying to mix two "ultimately tragic Faustian bargain" character arcs with mid-life-crisis Zeus, a tiresome and goofy rock man doing Drunk History recaps*, and super-powered children shooting lightning out of their toys. For me, the two tones clashed much more severely than in Ragnarok. The dramatic bits were undermined by quipping, and the comic bits often just felt rather inappropriate.

And the young Asgardians continue the Phase 4 tradition of annoying kids. Why the hell were they fighting at all? That just felt grossly irresponsible.

Just a random thought, but this movie could maybe have been better....without Thor. Have it be Jane Foster Thor vs Gorr, while original Thor is still running round doing cosmic stuff. Two mortals who make bargains with deific artifacts to pursue their goals at the expense of their lives, for a really strong central conflict. The movie could have done soooo much more with the parallels between them, and has a try when Gorr points out Jane's being used by Mjolnir, but that point just gets buried and never really addressed. Really, both of these characters needed a LOT more screentime, and Thor ends up feeling like the least interesting bit of the movie with his name on it.


* I actually felt relief when it seemed like Korg had been blown up, and hoped the movie would settle on a tone.




One thing I noticed was that the actor who plays Thor on stage was also played by a Hemsworth--the same guy who had the same role as in Ragnarok.

Have to agree with this. To me the biggest problem is that they looked at what they thought fans liked about Ragnarok and and said "let's do MORE". Not better, just MORE. And that's an all too common problem in movies.

[Eldan]

But what I liked about Thor Ragnarok was high energy, good action scenes and unusual sets and locations. And a relatively focused plot, where the bad guy has a clear motive and pursues it and the good guys want to stop her. Certainly not the cringe dialogue. And they doubled down on that hard. It doesn't have the energy of Ragnarok.

[Murk]

Finally got around to watching this.

Maybe it was the low expectations I had, but I actually really liked it! At the very least I think it's the best of the Thor films.

I loathed Ragnarok. I thought the constant, never-ending comedy got tiresome after five minutes and utterly undermined any drama.
And then with the negative response to this movie... I figured I would hate it.

But I didn't!
It's still not my type of humor but I felt it the comedy was much more isolated, giving the drama more space to actually be drama. The themes were clear and consistent, Thor wasn't only an idiot all of the time and Natalie Portman was allowed to do some acting, too! Though I am ashamed to admit it I also like screaming goats.

It still had a lot of flaws - most of which are shared by all MCU movies and series - but I had a good time.
I suspect that's just because it wasn't as terrible as I expected, but I'll take it.
Maybe I should have low expectations more often.

[Wookieetank]

Though I am ashamed to admit it I also like screaming goats.

It still had a lot of flaws - most of which are shared by all MCU movies and series - but I had a good time.
I suspect that's just because it wasn't as terrible as I expected, but I'll take it.
Maybe I should have low expectations more often.

No gonna lie, I laughed everytime the goats showed up, they were very entertaining for me.

As for movie expectations, I wouldn't say I have low expectations, but I've found simple ones definitely make a difference on enjoying things.
Transformers - I go in looking for robots punching each other and explosions (it's Michael Bay, complaining about explosions in his movies seems a bit naive at this point )
Jurassic Park/World - Watch them to see dinos eating people, some movies do better than others at this
Random action movies - Explosions and over the top stunts, everything else is icing
Weird Indie Movies - Interesting/different and music I don't hate.
and so on. Then when a movie is really well put together, its super impressive/enjoyable.

[Imbalance]

Guns n Roses may have helped.

It's far from the best movie I've ever seen, but it certainly has the greatest soundtrack of all time.

[The Patterner]

Just tried watching this on Disney+.

Managed 32 minutes before I finally quit. I can’t remember the last time I was so glad that I didn’t waste money on a theater ticket.

I dislike movies that are intentionally bad, and from what I can tell, every line in this movie was both written and directed to be intentionally bad. The scenes feel like someone filmed a stack of index cards with notes on them. They’re not real scenes, just clichés and caricatures, with the absolute minimum dialogue required to advance the “plot,” for want of a better word.

Unless it changes radically after minute 33, this is by far the worst movie in the MCU, at least for this viewer. And I won’t be watching anything by this director again.

Wow.

I didn't particulary care for it either but I'm struggling with understanding this level of vitriol.

But you know, your loss that you won't watch 'Jojo Rabbit', 'What we do in the shadows' or 'Our flag means death' then I guess.

Altough, I'll add that this did put a dent in my liking of the director as well.

[Thrudd]

Wow.

I didn't particulary care for it either but I'm struggling with understanding this level of vitriol.

But you know, your loss that you won't watch 'Jojo Rabbit', 'What we do in the shadows' or 'Our flag means death' then I guess.

Altough, I'll add that this did put a dent in my liking of the director as well.

Yes. He's great at doing independent films with silly, witty comedy that has heart. His style might not be right for a character and universe which are not his alone - but I guess Feige and Marvel must have decided they wanted more straight up comedy, that's why they hired him in the first place. Maybe it was the success of GotG that made them think this turn was what was needed. I agree that this last film was all over the place, and it just goes to show that even good film makers can have a miss. They all have. Who knows what's responsible? Many people are involved in making these big corporate movies, it certainly would be a different experience than making a film like "Hunt for the Wilderpeople" or "Jojo Rabbit", and the others. "Our Flag Means Death" was fantastic, and "Flight of the Concords" is still an old favorite of mine. Certainly, it's possible to decline, to run out of ideas, to get lazy...but the man has put out some great work, I wouldn't be quick to write him off just because he isn't a great fit as a collaborator in the MCU (although I adored "Ragnarok", the complete shift in tone was a bit disappointing for a character who deserves to have a little bit more gravitas).

[brionl]

It's far from the best movie I've ever seen, but it certainly has the greatest soundtrack of all time.

No, that would be The Blues Brothers.

[Ramza00]

Just tried watching this on Disney+.

Managed 32 minutes before I finally quit. I can’t remember the last time I was so glad that I didn’t waste money on a theater ticket.

I dislike movies that are intentionally bad, and from what I can tell, every line in this movie was both written and directed to be intentionally bad. The scenes feel like someone filmed a stack of index cards with notes on them. They’re not real scenes, just clichés and caricatures, with the absolute minimum dialogue required to advance the “plot,” for want of a better word.

Unless it changes radically after minute 33, this is by far the worst movie in the MCU, at least for this viewer. And I won’t be watching anything by this director again.

No you are not wrong, how it excels (if you are into this type of style) is that it bads, but after a while your brain turns off and the very bad things become funny. The goats go from funny to the first time, to annoying, to anticlimactic breaking the tension allowing a release of emotion.

And the movie does have pathos and a deep core of strong feelings. But it is exactly what you said and it is about the mixture of allowing a release of those feelings via humor.

The troubling part is it does not always nail the execution and the execution matters a lot if one is going to attempt this strategy of telling a story.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by The Patterner
I didn't particulary care for it either but I'm struggling with understanding this level of vitriol.

But you know, your loss that you won't watch 'Jojo Rabbit', 'What we do in the shadows' or 'Our flag means death' then I guess.

There's no vitriol here. I liked Ragnarok enough I was willing to watch this one, but turns out I can’t stand this one.

That doesn’t mean I’m angry or vitriolic or whatever, it just means I’m disappointed in this movie and don’t care for the director’s style. I have zero interest in any of the other items you mentioned, so it’s a question of allotting time to viewing to things I prefer. That’s all.

Originally Posted by Thrudd
…although I adored "Ragnarok", the complete shift in tone was a bit disappointing for a character who deserves to have a little bit more gravitas….

The MCU’s treatment of Thor has been one of my greatest disappointments with the franchise, but that’s a topic for another time.

Originally Posted by Ramza00
The troubling part is it does not always nail the execution and the execution matters a lot if one is going to attempt this strategy of telling a story.

I’ll take your word for it, but based on the first 32 minutes the movie definitely nailed the painfully bad vibe it was going for. Just not my jam.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I think I did a bad thing, or at least something out of order. I watched Flash Gordon about a week before I saw Thor and proper timing of soundtrack music in cheezy old Flash Gordon made Thor seem out of step with itself even though I'm quite the GNR fan.

That said, by the end I was happy I watched the movie.

My feeling was they probably wrote a pretty scary serious story with a bad guy making shadow monsters that kidnap kids and a protagonist dying of cancer. Someone screened it and said, "you have to make this light hearted enough it doesn't scare kids and adults. I want fun!". And they added 45 minutes of goat noises and silly jokes.

Overall I'll mimic what the rest said.

-Natalie Portman, great.

-Bad guy, great, especially as the movie went on.

-Humor, bleh

-I was ok with the magic weapon story line, it gave me D&D ideas.

-They did something wrong with a great soundtrack and I don't know what.

[Ramza00]

I think I did a bad thing, or at least something out of order. I watched Flash Gordon about a week before I saw Thor and proper timing of soundtrack music in cheezy old Flash Gordon made Thor seem out of step with itself even though I'm quite the GNR fan.

That said, by the end I was happy I watched the movie.

My feeling was they probably wrote a pretty scary serious story with a bad guy making shadow monsters that kidnap kids and a protagonist dying of cancer. Someone screened it and said, "you have to make this light hearted enough it doesn't scare kids and adults. I want fun!". And they added 45 minutes of goat noises and silly jokes.

No I think this is just Taika Waititi's style.

Many people in this world want to play the world like a game, this is because a certain part of our brain , really does do our cognition as a loop "where life is a game." Another part of our brain does "life like a story" with narrative, and this grander narrative is our loop.

These two different types of loops are in tension with each other, and Taika Wahitti finds the interplay of these two types of tensions to be entertaining.

Thus the story can be dark with kids being kidnapped, and a cancer story, and our gods are not there to save us. Those stories can coexist with a muscle bound god who has no life goals besides just having fun and chilling.

Except Thor is deeper than his Thor instinct which is a head empty guy who does things without thinking it through, yet he is still both of these things. Thor can be capable of crying of the life lost and the lost future with Jane (hauntology), and then find a new future with his new adopted daughter.

[Kyberwulf]

I watched this movie finally.

I am in the camp of it was a good movie, but the humor is... .

I don't know what it is about Marvel, they just can't stand to just let a scene play out without trying to throw in jokes every 5 seconds. I know other people didn't like it, but I think what they were going for with the tonal weirdness of the movie, is that this is told from the perspective of the rock guy. So that's one of the reason that it all seems childish? Which is another thing, do you think they are trying to market Thor more to kids now? What with the giving kids the power of Thor as well?

One thing I will say, that probably made this movie a lot more easier, I assume, is I have to watch it in spurts. So it probably made it easier to watch?

Another thing I will say, is I don't know what it is about companies now, but they seem to want to take episodic "tv" shows and make them feel like the stretch a 2 hour movie's worth of plot into 6-12 episodes, and inversely take a 12-20 episode seasons worth of plot and cram it into a 2-3 hour movie.

Gonna admit I went into the movie thinking they were going to do a Ray thing with Woman Thor. Yet, I found her to be one of the better parts of the movie.

[PontificatusRex]

-They did something wrong with a great soundtrack and I don't know what.

I think it just didn't fit. They were trying to mimic how well Zepplin's "Immigrant Song" worked in Thor 3 and it fell flat because the lyrics to Immigrant Song have an obvious connection to the character and Guns&Roses just doesn't - and I say that as a G&R fan. I really don't know what would have worked - there's lots of viking-themed metal out there but not stuff that a mainstream audience would recognize.

[Devonix]

I think it just didn't fit. They were trying to mimic how well Zepplin's "Immigrant Song" worked in Thor 3 and it fell flat because the lyrics to Immigrant Song have an obvious connection to the character and Guns&Roses just doesn't - and I say that as a G&R fan. I really don't know what would have worked - there's lots of viking-themed metal out there but not stuff that a mainstream audience would recognize.

Ehh Sweet Child of mine is pretty much the same connection to Thor 4 and it's story

[Tyndmyr]

I know other people didn't like it, but I think what they were going for with the tonal weirdness of the movie, is that this is told from the perspective of the rock guy. So that's one of the reason that it all seems childish? Which is another thing, do you think they are trying to market Thor more to kids now? What with the giving kids the power of Thor as well?

Yknow, that's fair. Trying to frame the whole movie around Korg was frigging strange. Korg is basically a bit character introduced in the last movie. Thor is the dude on the cover, whose name is the title. We're there for Thor, not Korg.