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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    Okay. I've been working on playtesting a paladin rebuild lately, and it got me thinking about that other half-caster, the ranger. Now, the ranger's alright for what it does, but although the 3.5 revision got the skills right, the spellcasting is still a joke, the animal companion even more so, and the combat styles are too restrictive.

    I went looking around for a ranger rebuild that addressed these issues, but didn't really find one that didn't rub me the wrong way in some other fashion, so I've started to make my own. It follows. I'm looking for suggestions, so feel free to speak up. Without further ado, the beginnings of my rebuilt ranger:

    Alignment: Any.
    Hit Die: d8.

    Class Skills
    The ranger’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th
    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |1st favored enemy, Track, wild empathy|—|—|—|—

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Combat style|—|—|—|—

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Endurance|—|—|—|—

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Animal companion|0|—|—|—

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |2nd favored enemy|1|—|—|—

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Improved combat style|2|—|—|—

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Woodland stride|2|0|—|—

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Swift tracker|3|1|—|—

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Evasion|3|2|—|—

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |3rd favored enemy|3|2|0|—

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Greater combat style|4|3|1|—

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Companion Favored Enemy (half)|4|3|2|—

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Camouflage|4|3|2|0

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    ||4|4|3|1

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |4th favored enemy|5|4|3|2

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Superior Combat Style|5|4|3|2

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Hide in plain sight|5|4|4|3

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Companion Favored Enemy (full)|5|5|4|3

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    ||5|5|4|3

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |5th favored enemy|6|5|4|4[/table]

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the ranger.
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields).

    Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

    The ranger may also make Knowledge checks against creatures of his favored enemy types as though he were trained in the relevant Knowledge skill. The ranger gains a bonus on this check equal to his ranger level plus his Intelligence modifier plus his favored enemy bonus against that creature; thus, a 5th level ranger with 13 INT and favored enemies of dragons (+4) and evil outsiders (+2) may make Knowledge checks against dragons with a bonus of +10 and evil outsiders with a bonus of +8. This does not count as a Knowledge skill for other purposes; while the above ranger could make checks to know about dragons as if he had Knowledge (arcana), he could not use this ability to make Knowledge checks about other subjects falling under that Knowledge skill, nor could he use the bonus to qualify for feats or abilities that have ranks in a Knowledge skill as a prerequisite. If the ranger has a Knowledge skill that covers one of his favored enemies, the bonuses do not stack; the ranger uses either the Knowledge skill or his favored enemy knowledge bonus, whichever is higher.

    At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.

    If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. Creatures with templates granting the outsider type count as the base creature’s type for the purpose of favored enemy, and not as outsiders (unless the base creature is also an outsider).

    The ranger may alternately select the favored terrain variant found on page 65 of Unearthed Arcana and in the SRD found at http://d20srd.org

    {table=head]Type (Subtype)|Type (Subtype)
    Aberration|Monstrous Humanoid
    Animal|Ooze
    Construct|Outsider (chaotic)
    Dragon|Outsider (evil)
    Elemental|Outsider (good)
    Fey|Outsider (lawful)
    Giant|Outsider (inner planes)
    Humanoid (aquatic)|Outsider (transitional planes)
    Humanoid (terrestrial)|Plant
    Humanoid (extraplanar)|Undead
    Magical Beast|Vermin[/table]

    Track: A ranger gains Track as a bonus feat.

    Wild Empathy (Ex): A ranger can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The ranger rolls 1d20 and adds his ranger level and his Charisma bonus to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

    To use wild empathy, the ranger and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.
    The ranger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

    Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one feat from the following list: Dodge, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Shield Specialization, or Two-Weapon Fighting. The ranger is treated as having the chosen feat for all purposes, though he need not meet the prerequisites.

    The benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

    Endurance: A ranger gains Endurance as a bonus feat at 3rd level.

    Animal Companion (Ex): At 4th level, a ranger gains an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures may be added to the ranger’s list of options: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the ranger on his adventures as appropriate for its kind.

    This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name, except that the ranger’s effective druid level is his ranger level minus three. A ranger may select from the alternative lists of animal companions just as a druid can, though again his effective druid level is his ranger level minus three. Like a druid, a ranger cannot select an alternative animal if the choice would reduce his effective druid level below 1st.

    Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list. A ranger must choose and prepare his spells in advance (see below).

    To prepare or cast a spell, a ranger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ranger’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger’s Wisdom modifier.

    Like other spellcasters, a ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Ranger. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. When Table: The Ranger indicates that the ranger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. The ranger does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does.

    A ranger prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though he cannot lose a prepared spell to cast a cure spell in its place. A ranger may prepare and cast any spell on the ranger spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation.

    Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is his ranger level minus three.

    Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style improves. He may select any feat from his chosen Combat Style feat’s feat tree (that is, any feat that has his Combat Style feat as a prerequisite). The ranger need not meet any prerequisites of the chosen feat apart from feat prerequisites. (That is, a ranger that chose Mounted Combat as his combat style may choose Ride-by Attack, but may not choose Spirited Charge unless he selected Ride-by Attack using a normal feat slot.)

    As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

    Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a ranger may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment.

    However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him.

    Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a ranger can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

    Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Greater Combat Style (Ex): At 11th level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style improves again. He may select another feat from his chosen Combat Style feat’s feat tree (including feats that also have his Improved Combat Style feat as a prerequisite, if desired).

    As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

    Companion Favored Enemy (Ex): The animal companion of a ranger of 12th level or higher becomes accustomed to and skilled at fighting the ranger's favored enemies. At 12th level, the companion applies half the ranger's favored enemy damage bonus against a creature when fighting that creature.

    At 18th level the companion gains the full favored enemy bonus.

    Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

    Superior Combat Style (Ex): At 16th level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style improves to its peak. He may select another feat from his chosen Combat Style feat’s feat tree (including feats that also have his Improved Combat Style feat as a prerequisite, if desired).

    As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

    And that's pretty much it. Feedback is appreciated, ideas even more so.

    Credit where credit's due: I pulled some ideas including condensing the humanoid and outsider favored enemy lists from Otto the Bugbear's ranger rewrite, found here. The spell progression is that used by OneWinged4ngel's and Seerow's paladin rewrite, found here.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2007-12-01 at 12:11 AM.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Xyk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger

    Wow. I love the new combst styles! I will use them in my next campaign for the rangers of the party.
    I take this game with the seriousness it deserves.
    Not all that much. It's a game.

    Xykon In The Playground nominee, way back when that happened.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger

    I like the new take on combat styles, and more spells per day will certainly make them feel less restricting. Though you didn't seem to change the animal companions despite your dislike about them. Not complaining, just remarking.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by triforcel View Post
    I like the new take on combat styles, and more spells per day will certainly make them feel less restricting. Though you didn't seem to change the animal companions despite your dislike about them. Not complaining, just remarking.
    On the contrary, the animal companion is now calculated as a druid's of the ranger's level minus three, rather than half the ranger's level.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger

    By 16th level, if the ranger was actually going to build into his combat style, then he'd already have finished out the feat tree(except for Whirlwind Attack, but that's just a bad choice for anybody). Heck, he's usually done with it by 9th or 12th level.

    HiPS comes into play far too late to be of any real use. If the ability was something a ranger wanted, he'd just take a level dip of Shadowdancer at 8th.

    EDIT: Also, dead levels. (Plus redundant levels from Greater/Superior Combat Style).
    Last edited by ZeroNumerous; 2007-11-28 at 09:36 AM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger

    I'm nowhere near done with this; the dead levels will be gone.

    As for Combat Style, the disconnect lies between the archery and TWF feat lines and everything else. The TWF feats (and Manyshot) come with BAB increases; everything else you can finish earlier. I'm not sure how to use them in the same progression while not either making the mounted tree irrelevant or giving access to Greater TWF way too early.

    Edit: I'd also caution against actually using this in a game at this stage; this is very early alpha version. I only just started work on this last night.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2007-11-28 at 02:39 PM.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger

    Added a creature knowledge ability to Favored Enemy, and also filled two of the dead levels with an ability granting favored enemy bonuses to the ranger's animal companion.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    How about a Favored Enemy Smite usable once per encounter at 4 level, twice at 9th level, three time at 14th level and four times at 19th level. That or a favored enemy sneak attack could work well also at the same stager, ie 4:1d6, 9:2d6, 14:3d6 and 19:4d6.

    Just a few ideas.
    [url=http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53501]



    50 Unconfirmed Rumors About 4th Ed!

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    Sneak attack (or skirmish) fits the ranger's "feel" better than a supernatural smite, I think. Though I fully agree on the per encounter mechanic for smiting; I use OneWinged4ngel's rebalanced paladin, which uses the same idea. I just don't think a smite fits the ranger's flavor.

    I'll work on a sneak attack idea, or I might just cannibalize skirmish outright.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Sneak attack (or skirmish) fits the ranger's "feel" better than a supernatural smite, I think. Though I fully agree on the per encounter mechanic for smiting; I use OneWinged4ngel's rebalanced paladin, which uses the same idea. I just don't think a smite fits the ranger's flavor.

    I'll work on a sneak attack idea, or I might just cannibalize skirmish outright.
    Well in some/many cases I would not have suggested Smite but as you've give ranger more spells I figured this version is a little more, magically empowered.

    You could do it as an option for rangers who are conected to a religion such as Demon/Undead/Werewolf hunters in place of the sneak attack, but then I think sneak attack would most likely be better anyway so I don't think many would take it in its stead. (Typing as I'm thinking)

    And my vote is against skirmish, I've never much cared for it. It just makes you too dependent on the whole moving around a lot. Which is fine for many Rangers but is not how I often like to play them.

    Just my input.
    [url=http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53501]



    50 Unconfirmed Rumors About 4th Ed!

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    Well, when I brought up skirmish I did so because I'm working on a total restructuring of Combat Style in response to ZeroNumerous' concerns. One of the ideas is a two-weapon skirmish ability for the TWF style tree. So no, it probably won't just be a "rangers get skirmish" sort of thing, but it could be tied to a combat style later.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    Okay, a few options here. In attempting to fix the Combat Style thing, the fact that there's just no way to leave it that open and have things come out equal became inescapable. So, I'm working on some combat styles the original way, with a couple exceptions.

    There will be more Combat Style advancement than just whenever the ranger's BAB allows another iterative attack.

    Combat styles will not just give feats; there will be special abilities scattered throughout.

    I've been working with my group's other primary DM, and he had several ideas. Here's his ideas first. To note, in his idea rangers get the Skirmish ability and get a die of Skirmish at every Combat Style improvement. (This is a rough idea; we'll decide on a final proposal for this tonight when we get to his house where the books are.)

    {table=head]Level|Mobile TWF|Mounted|Archer
    2nd|Two-Weapon Fighting|Ride-By Attack|Shot on the Run
    6th|Spring Attack|Spirited Charge|Manyshot
    8th|Two-Weapon Spring Attack|Mounted Skirmish|Manyshot on the Run
    11th|Bounding Assault|Double Charge|Improved Precise Shot
    13th|TW Bounding Assault|Companion speed boost|Sniper Blind
    16th|Rapid Blitz|Triple Charge|Combat Archery
    19th|TW Rapid Blitz|Companion Skirmish|Reactive Shot[/table]

    Some of the names are obvious; some are not. Descriptions of those that are not:

    Two-Weapon Spring Attack (Ex): When wielding two weapons, the ranger may make one attack with each weapon at his highest attack bonus (including the standard penalties for two-weapon fighting) and move in the same round.

    Bounding Assault: A feat from Player's Handbook II. Essentially allows two Spring Attack targets in a round.

    Two Weapon Bounding Assault: Allows the ranger to make one attack with each weapon per attack normally allowed by Bounding Assault.

    Rapid Blitz: A feat from PHB2; allows a third Spring Attack target.

    Two Weapon Rapid Blitz: As Two Weapon Bounding Assault only applying to Rapid Blitz.

    Mounted Skirmish (Ex): The ranger may use Skirmish when his mount moves. (WotC has ruled that Skirmish normally does not apply when a mount you're on moves; the character must move himself.)

    Double Charge (Ex): The ranger may make a mounted charge attack against two foes. The two enemies and the ranger (and ranger's mount) must form a straight line, so that the ranger's line of charge does not have to turn to strike both targets.

    Companion Speed Boost: The ranger's animal companion (which is presumably also his mount) gains a +10 ft. speed boost, as a paladin's mount does.

    Triple Charge: As Double Charge but with three targets.

    Companion Skirmish: The ranger's animal companion may use the ranger's skirmish ability on its own attacks, but only while the ranger is mounted on it.

    Manyshot on the Run (Ex): The ranger may use the Manyshot feat in conjunction with Shot on the Run. He may not take any other standard actions with Shot on the Run; only a manyshot. The ranger must expend his swift action for the round in order to use this ability.

    Sniper Blind (Ex): When in natural terrain, the ranger halves the penalty to Hide imposed on an attempt to hide after firing a ranged weapon. This is applied after any other modifiers to the normal -20 penalty. The ranger must expend a swift action to apply this modifier to his Hide check.

    Combat Archery (Ex): When threatened in melee, the ranger may shoot an opposing character in melee with him without provoking an attack of opportunity from his target. Any other creatures in melee with the ranger receive attacks of opportunity as normal. Using this ability requires a swift action.

    Reactive Shot (Ex): The ranger may take a single ranged attack as an immediate action once per round. This (obviously) expends the ranger's immediate action, and consequently his swift action for his next turn.

    That's the end of my friend's proposal. Some of the other abilities also require swift actions to activate; I merely forgot which ones for the other progressions. The idea is to force a tactical choice on the player, since a character receives only one swift or immediate action per round.

    Now for my ideas. Since these are all separate combat styles, some combination of the styles from the two proposals might make it into the class. Some of my Combat Style progressions are not complete; any that have "dead" slots where other styles receive an ability will get one when I get more time to work on the idea. Suggestions are most welcome. Note: My idea does not give Skirmish to all ranger combat styles.

    {table=head]Level|TWF|Mounted|Archer|Mobile
    2nd|Two-Weapon Fighting|Ride-By Attack|Rapid Shot|Mobility
    4th||Bonus Spells|Precision +1d6|Skirmish +1d6
    6th|Improved Two-Weapon Fighting|Spirited Charge|Manyshot|Spring Attack
    8th||Skilled Horseman|Sniper Blind|Skirmish +2d6
    11th|Greater Two-Weapon Fighting||Improved Precise Shot|Bounding Assault
    14th|||Precision +2d6|Skirmish +3d6
    16th|Supreme Two-Weapon Fighting|||Rapid Blitz
    19th||||Skirmish +4d6[/table]

    Supreme Two-Weapon Fighting: The ranger may make a fourth attack with his off-hand weapon at a -15 penalty, plus the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting.

    Bonus Spells: The ranger adds Master Cavalier and it's companion spells from Complete Champion to his spell list at the same levels that paladins get the spells.

    Skilled Horseman: The ranger may use the benefit of Mounted Combat one extra time per round. If the ranger does not have Mounted Combat, he instead gains the feat.

    Precision (Ex): The ranger receives the listed bonus damage on ranged attacks when he takes a full round action beforehand to aim. (The required aiming action may be shortened or eliminated; I'm not sure about this idea yet.)

    Skirmish (Ex): The scout ability from Complete Adventurer; the listed bonus damage applies to all weapon attacks in a round whenever the ranger moves more than ten feet in the round. The ability also grants an armor class bonus in the same conditions that advances on a separate progression in the scout class; I'll give it a look when I get to my books and finalize a progression on that.

    Other abilities are explained above.

    So, thoughts?
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2007-11-30 at 04:50 PM.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    I like the increased number of spells...I've always thought the number in the PHB was to puny and it discouraged me from playing rangers.

    I like the boost on the animal companion, I'm always in favor of doing more with animal companions, they seem to be rarely used.
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Credit where credit's due: I pulled some ideas including condensing the humanoid and outsider favored enemy lists from Otto the Bugbear's ranger rewrite, found here. The spell progression is that used by OneWinged4ngel's paladin rewrite, found here.
    Actually, on the subject of pointing out where stuff is from, the spell progression part actually comes from Seerow (I believe he took it from his Archer class, which I'm not sure if he ever finished). Might want to mention that it's OneWinged4ngel/Seerow's paladin rewrite.
    Last edited by OneWinged4ngel; 2007-11-30 at 06:58 PM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    Oh yeah. It's in your post, so I tend to forget that part. Will do.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    I do like your ranger changes. for one the animal companion at druid -3 is some thing Ive always wanted.

    I have a campain book from green ronin. There version of the ranger had more combat styles as well. TWF, archer, mounted, light weapon, THW, and unarmed. instead of a favord enemy it they went with enviornment, hills, mountans, planes ect. Also rangers had up to 5 dice in sneak attack.

    One other change would be restoring an ability from 2nd ed....pass without trace. Say at 16th or higher. Other than that not much els. Maybe revise there spell list. or remove it all together with a herbalism like healing skill. The tree hugger version of lay on hands and cure poisons and desease.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    Pass without trace is an idea. I'll take a look at it; thanks.

    So, any specific thoughts on the combat styles? Should the mobile two-weapon fighter replace the standard TWF tree, or should it be an option alongside it? That's the main question bothering me right now.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often. PEACH.)

    Okay, I'm looking at the blank spots in my mounted progression, and seriously considering looting the halfling outrider and wild plains outrider for abilities. I have to wonder whether that's really a good idea to step on a PrC's toes like that, though; I don't much like the idea of PrCs anyway except in special cases and don't mind making them obsolete when upgrading a base class, but I know I'm in the minority there. Opinions?
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    Would you mind if I used your Companion Favored Enemy ability for my no magic Ranger version?
    Looking for a low magic high fantasy world to use for your next campaign? Send me a private message as I'm currently looking for play test groups.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    Wouldn't mind at all.

    Anyway, here goes nothing. I'm reworking the Combat Styles again in an effort to get this thing to use entirely Open Content so that it might be considered for publishing by a third party publisher.

    {table=head]Level|Mobile TWF|Mounted|Archer|Swift Hunter
    2nd|Two-Weapon Fighting|Ride-By Attack|Rapid Shot|Sneak Attack +1d6, Stealthy
    4th|Spring Attack, BD +1d6|Spirited Charge|Precision +1d6|Stalking
    6th|Imp. TWF, TW Spring Atk|Skilled Horseman, BD +1d6|Manyshot|Sneak Attack +2d6
    8th|Imp. Spring Atk|Companion Speed Boost|Sniper Blind|Improved Stalking
    11th|Greater Two-Weapon Fighting|Double Charge|Improved Precise Shot|Sneak Attack +3d6
    14th|Greater Spring Atk|Bonus Damage +2d6|Precision +2d6|Hide in Plain Sight*
    16th|Superior Two-Weapon Fighting|Triple Charge|Combat Archery|Sneak Attack +4d6
    19th|Bonus Damage +2d6|Companion Bonus Damage|Reactive Shot|Hunter's Strike[/table]
    All entires marked BD +xd6 are bonus damage applicable when the combat style is being used; for the two weapon fighter it applies whenever the ranger's wielding two weapons, and for the mounted ranger, it applies whenever the ranger is mounted. The abilities will be named when I think of something appropriate. I've already named the archery style's bonus damage Precision.

    Two-Weapon Spring Attack: When wielding two weapons, the ranger may make one attack with each weapon at his highest attack bonus (including the standard penalties for two-weapon fighting) and move in the same round. This ability improves when the ranger gains Improved Spring Attack and Greater Spring Attack (see below).

    Improved Spring Attack: When using Spring Attack, the ranger may attack two targets, moving before and after each attack. The ranger must have enough movement to engage both targets. Due to Two-Weapon Spring Attack, the ranger may make one attack with each weapon against each target. Attacks against the second target suffer a -5 penalty.

    Greater Spring Attack: When using Spring Attack, the ranger may attack three targets, moving before and after each attack. The ranger must have enough movement to reach each target. Due to Two-Weapon Spring Attack, the ranger may make one attack with each weapon against each target. Attacks against the second target suffer a -5 penalty, and attacks against the third target suffer a -10 penalty.

    Superior Two-Weapon Fighting: The ranger may make a fourth attack with his off-hand weapon at a -15 penalty, plus the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting.

    Skilled Horseman: The ranger may use the benefit of Mounted Combat one extra time per round. If the ranger does not have Mounted Combat, he instead gains the feat.

    Companion Speed Boost: The ranger's animal companion (which is presumably also his mount) gains a +10 ft. speed boost, as a paladin's mount does.

    Double Charge (Ex): The ranger may make a mounted charge attack against two foes. The two enemies and the ranger (and ranger's mount) must form a straight line, so that the ranger's line of charge does not have to turn to strike both targets.

    Triple Charge (Ex): As Double Charge but with three targets.

    Companion Bonus Damage (Ex): When the ranger is mounted on his animal companion, the animal companion also receives the bonus damage that the ranger receives for being mounted.

    Precision (Ex): Whenever the ranger is wielding a ranged weapon, he adds the listed bonus damage dice to his damage rolls with that weapon.

    Sniper Blind (Ex): When in natural terrain, the ranger halves the penalty to Hide imposed on an attempt to hide after firing a ranged weapon. This is applied after any other modifiers to the normal -20 penalty.

    Combat Archery (Ex): When threatened in melee, the ranger may attack an opposing character in melee with him with a ranged weapon without provoking an attack of opportunity from his target. Any other creatures in melee with the ranger receive attacks of opportunity as normal.

    Reactive Shot (Ex): The ranger may take a single ranged attack as a free action once per round, even when it is not his turn. This interrupts actions as a readied action does.

    Stalking (Ex): The ranger's penalties for hiding and moving silently while moving are reduced as follows: Moving at the ranger's full normal speed imposes a -2 penalty to Hide and Move Silently, while running or charging imposes a -10 penalty to the same skills. These penalties replace the normal ones listed in the skill descriptions. The penalty to hiding while attacking is unchanged.

    Improved Stalking (Ex): The ranger suffers no penalty to Hide and Move Silently while moving up to his normal speed, and a -5 penalty to the listed skills while running or charging.

    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): As the normal ranger ability. If this is in the final version of the Swift Hunter specialization, HiPS on the basic ranger chart will be removed and replaced with another ability.

    Hunter's Strike (Ex): If the ranger takes one full round to study his target, any attacks he makes on the next round that hit that target are automatically critical hits. The target must be eligible for Sneak Attack for the entire round; that is, the target must either be flanked or unaware of the ranger for the entire round. While studying the target, the ranger may take no other actions.
    ______________________________________

    And that's it for now. I'm going to clean this up and submit it to Paizo for consideration for their Pathfinder RPG system. I'm not entirely happy with the Swift Hunter specialization as it is now; I'm considering giving it Wind Stance and Lightning Stance from the Pathfinder RPG alpha document instead of some of the abilities it has now. (Those feats grant concealment when you move.) Comments and criticism are, as always, welcome.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    Apparently Dragon Magazine came up with some alternate combat styles.

    2nd level, 6th level, and 11th level as per the original.

    Bear-Wrestling: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist
    Piscator: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (net), Improved Trip, Improved Critical
    Strong-Arm: Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Great Cleave
    Throwing: Quick Draw, Point Blank, Shot Far Shot

    Now I think that you would agree with me that these styles are lacking in power and singularity, but I wanted to show them to you in case you were interested in adding a few extra different combat styles to your current re-work (and I hope you are).

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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    personally, i think that humanoind(terrestrial) is too broad of a category for a favored enemy. there is a huge difference between dwarves and drow.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    Quote Originally Posted by lord of kobolds View Post
    personally, i think that humanoind(terrestrial) is too broad of a category for a favored enemy. there is a huge difference between dwarves and drow.
    That's one way to look at it. The other one is that narrowing it down to be too specific makes the ability nigh-worthless (and also makes the chart huge ).
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    Granted, it does improve it crunchwise, but it doesn't quite work for the fluff.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    Maybe, maybe not. There's nothing else in the build that absolutely depends on the new chart, so it's easy enough to use the old one.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    Hmmm... You have increased the spell slots for the Ranger... Tell me, with Spell Compendium it won't get abusive? I mean, I am running a Homebrewed Paladin around and I was going to give him more spells per day, but them I took a look at Spell Compendium and found that, for example, Rhino's Charge + my Paladin (with charging smite) would be far abusive.

    Have you playtested this increased spell stack?
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rebuilding the ranger (In development; edited often.)

    Next to a full caster? It's kind of hard to get abusive with only four spell levels to play with.

    Rhino's rush can be abused even with the base paladin spell progression; it's just a matter of how often per day you can do it. My campaigns are grinders; under the default half-caster progression, the half-casters would be out of spells long before they're out of encounters.

    Oh, and as for using this progression with paladin, it's been done; I just ripped OW4's spell progression. He also adjusted the spell list.

    I'm going to get around to altering the ranger's spell list a little, but haven't done so yet.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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