LOTR: Rings of Power - New Teaser

[Sapphire Guard]

Is that a leak?

[Divayth Fyr]

Is that a leak?

The original uploader said it was (part of an) ad.

[Dire_Flumph]

The original uploader said it was (part of an) ad.

3 cans of Red Bull were gifted to the Elf-Lords?

[Corvus]

Eh, it just seems like regular elf wuxia to me. I don't find it particularly offensive.

(Hell, it might be good if this gets popular, we'll have more DMs willing to just let martials do this kind of stuff with a skill check.)

Elf wuxia was never a thing in the books, and was one of the worst things put in the movies, getting progressively worse with each movie.

But I won't be upset if players were allowed to do more stuff like that as martial characters.

[Peelee]

Eh, it just seems like regular elf wuxia to me. I don't find it particularly offensive.

A.) if it is a wuxia work, then that is not a problem and will work well. As is, I think it works as well as Legolas running up the falling bricks in Battle of the Five Armies.
2.) the sword strike is not being sold at all. It looks like she's barely brushing him with it. If I described a players' sword strike as what is happening in that shot, it would be in the context of not breaking the AC.

[Zevox]

A.) if it is a wuxia work, then that is not a problem and will work well. As is, I think it works as well as Legolas running up the falling bricks in Battle of the Five Armies.
2.) the sword strike is not being sold at all. It looks like she's barely brushing him with it. If I described a players' sword strike as what is happening in that shot, it would be in the context of not breaking the AC.

Yeah, I don't know if it's the quality of the video clip there keeping it down, but that shot just doesn't even look good, even if you ignore that kind of stunt seeming very out of place in LotR. Galadriel just looks like she's kind of flailing in the air once she makes the jump. It comes across as goofy, or a deliberate "oh crap this was a bad idea" moment, not cool, which is what it feels like it was going for.

[Berserk Mecha]

I'm hoping that the stunts will look better in the show proper. Teasers and trailers are not always editing like they are in the final product. At least that is what I am telling myself.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Berserk Mecha
I'm hoping that the stunts will look better in the show proper. Teasers and trailers are not always editing like they are in the final product. At least that is what I am telling myself.

The fact that the sword-running was filmed at all is a hard nope for me.

[Psyren]

Elf wuxia was never a thing in the books,

It's been a while since I read LotR but I don't think they described the fight scenes to the level of detail that would allow for (or prohibit) that anyway. And even if they did, TV is a visual medium; it's not enough to simply say elves have inhuman agility, you have to show it.

A.) if it is a wuxia work, then that is not a problem and will work well. As is, I think it works as well as Legolas running up the falling bricks in Battle of the Five Armies.
2.) the sword strike is not being sold at all. It looks like she's barely brushing him with it. If I described a players' sword strike as what is happening in that shot, it would be in the context of not breaking the AC.

Eh, I'm not going to defend the Hobbit movies, but wuxia wasn't their problem anyway. The dwarves and Bilbo were breaking physics plenty too (the barrel scene comes to mind.)

[Zevox]

It's been a while since I read LotR but I don't think they described the fight scenes to the level of detail that would allow for (or prohibit) that anyway. And even if they did, TV is a visual medium; it's not enough to simply say elves have inhuman agility, you have to show it.

That feat doesn't so much require inhuman agility, though, it requires inhuman strength. Specifically on the part of the elf holding the sword, to be able to actually lift it with another person's full weight on it, and fast enough to actually use it to help propel her jump like that. I guess Galadriel would need some good coordination to precisely step on the sword and be able to do the jump without losing her balance, but that's the easy part of that stunt by comparison.

[Psyren]

That feat doesn't so much require inhuman agility, though, it requires inhuman strength. Specifically on the part of the elf holding the sword, to be able to actually lift it with another person's full weight on it, and fast enough to actually use it to help propel her jump like that. I guess Galadriel would need some good coordination to precisely step on the sword and be able to do the jump without losing her balance, but that's the easy part of that stunt by comparison.

"Full weight?" You're talking about beings that can run on top of snow.

[Zevox]

"Full weight?" You're talking about beings that can run on top of snow.

You can't seriously be suggesting that you think that particular ability is because they actually weigh so little that their footsteps don't push the snow down, rather than it being one of the forms of subtle natural magic in Tolkien's writing, right?

[Psyren]

You can't seriously be suggesting that you think that particular ability is because they actually weigh so little that their footsteps don't push the snow down, rather than it being one of the forms of subtle natural magic in Tolkien's writing, right?

You can't be seriously suggesting their "natural magic" can apply to snow but not metal right?

[Zevox]

You can't be seriously suggesting their "natural magic" can apply to snow but not metal right?

Yes, I would fully expect that such a thing would help them run over snow but not make them easy to lift with a sword. I sincerely don't see how you get from the one to the other unless you think it's about weight.

[Psyren]

Yes, I would fully expect that such a thing would help them run over snow but not make them easy to lift with a sword. I sincerely don't see how you get from the one to the other unless you think it's about weight.

If (natural) magic can apply to one, it can apply to the other. It's magic.

[Berserk Mecha]

Huh, I guess I thought that Legolas could walk on top of the snow because he was nimble enough and knew how to distribute his weight effectively. Like a super well-trained gymnast. I think it's implied that elf magic is really just advanced skills and technology. Kind of like Clark's third law.

[Zevox]

If (natural) magic can apply to one, it can apply to the other. It's magic.

Again, unless you think what it's doing is reducing their weight, I don't see how that makes any sense to you. An innate ability to interact with the natural world around them in ways other races can't doesn't equate to elves being lifted by swords easily.

[Psyren]

Again, unless you think what it's doing is reducing their weight, I don't see how that makes any sense to you. An innate ability to interact with the natural world around them in ways other races can't doesn't equate to elves being lifted by swords easily.

Putting aside that these are elves in the 2nd age and therefore the swords themselves are probably magic too, where are you getting clear rules on what magic and elves can and can't do in ME?

[Zevox]

Huh, I guess I thought that Legolas could walk on top of the snow because he was nimble enough and knew how to distribute his weight effectively. Like a super well-trained gymnast. I think it's implied that elf magic is really just advanced skills and technology. Kind of like Clark's third law.

Oh, it's certainly not that. Elf magic is definitely real - hence the Mirror of Galadriel, which was basically a scrying pool, to use the most obvious example from LotR itself. Heck, "technology" isn't really a term you could apply to anything Elves do in Tolkien's works. And I don't see how it would be at all possible to walk on top of snow just by distributing weight effectively alone.

Putting aside that these are elves in the 2nd age and therefore the swords themselves are probably magic too, where are you getting clear rules on what magic and elves can and can't do in ME?

Obviously there aren't any - Tolkien was writing stories, not game rules. I'm going off my impression of what's consistent with how Elves and their magic and abilities are portrayed in those stories.

[Berserk Mecha]

The mirror of Galadriel is the example that I can think of that adds credence to my point about magic being technology. I dug out my copy of Fellowship and here is the excerpt from the chapter, 'Mirror of Galadriel' that I was thinking of:

"And you?" she said turning to Sam. "For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel. Did you not say that you wished to see Elf-magic?"

Another excerpt from the next chapter when the cloaks are given to the fellowship sheds some light on the matter:

"Are these magic cloaks?" asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
"I do not know what you mean by that," answered the leader of the Elves. "They are fair garments, and the web is good, for it was made of this land. They are elvish robes certainly, if that is what you mean. Leaf and branch, water and stone: they have the hue and beauty of all these things under the twilight of Lorien that we love; for we put the thought of all that we love into all that we make."

The fact that the elves do not seem to have an equivalent for the word 'magic' is interesting. Yes, I suppose that you could say that pouring one's thought into crafting objects is magic. But to the elves, it's just simply one of their ways. Galadriel was the the one who created the scrying mirror so she must know how it works. It may be magic to us, but not to elves. Hell, I'm typing this post while looking at a glowing screen that shows me far away visions and I have an extremely rudimentary understanding of how it works. But the person who designed my monitor knows how it works.

I guess we could quibble about the exact definition of 'magic' and 'technology' but I don't know how productive that would be.

[Psyren]

Obviously there aren't any - Tolkien was writing stories, not game rules. I'm going off my impression of what's consistent with how Elves and their magic and abilities are portrayed in those stories.

As am I. In both cases we see a Tolkien elf being supported by something that wouldn't be able to support a human. That seems perfectly consistent to me.

[Divayth Fyr]

As am I. In both cases we see a Tolkien elf being supported by something that wouldn't be able to support a human. That seems perfectly consistent to me.

So, if we get a shot of an elf running on water, guess that would also be consistent? Legolas compared an elf running lightly over snow or grass to an otter in water - ie. both in a natural environment. Metal blades seem a bit off here.

Putting aside that these are elves in the 2nd age and therefore the swords themselves are probably magic too, where are you getting clear rules on what magic and elves can and can't do in ME?

Do you happen to remember any cases of magical blades in the legendarium that would make a stunt like this easier? Kinda drawing a blank...

It's been a while since I read LotR but I don't think they described the fight scenes to the level of detail that would allow for (or prohibit) that anyway.

Well, if you go with the idea that "if it isn't specifically written out, it can go in" (which is what the showrunners actually used when talking about things), that opens up a whole lot of new possibilities. Oliphaunts living in Rivendell? Hobbits being aliens that came to Middle-Earth on unicorns?Go wild.

And even if they did, TV is a visual medium; it's not enough to simply say elves have inhuman agility, you have to show it.

As mentioned, if anything, this would be showing the strength of the elf with the sword...

Eh, I'm not going to defend the Hobbit movies, but wuxia wasn't their problem anyway. The dwarves and Bilbo were breaking physics plenty too (the barrel scene comes to mind.)

A weird thing to bring up, since from what I remember, they got plenty of flak for those scenes (including the barrel ride).

[Kareeah_Indaga]

And I don't see how it would be at all possible to walk on top of snow just by distributing weight effectively alone.

Tentatively: with a very thick crust on the snow.

[Psyren]

So, if we get a shot of an elf running on water, guess that would also be consistent? Legolas compared an elf running lightly over snow or grass to an otter in water - ie. both in a natural environment. Metal blades seem a bit off here.

You're ascribing it to the environment rather than a property of the elves themselves. That doesn't make much sense to me, since other humanoids running in those environments can't do what they do, only they can.

Do you happen to remember any cases of magical blades in the legendarium that would make a stunt like this easier? Kinda drawing a blank...

None of the fight scenes are described in this level of detail in the text. "Legolas backflipped over the Uruks, raining arrows in a spread pattern before executing a three-point landing." Artistic license is a thing.

Well, if you go with the idea that "if it isn't specifically written out, it can go in" (which is what the showrunners actually used when talking about things), that opens up a whole lot of new possibilities. Oliphaunts living in Rivendell? Hobbits being aliens that came to Middle-Earth on unicorns?Go wild.

If it upsets purists, why not

Kidding aside, reductio ad absurdum.

As mentioned, if anything, this would be showing the strength of the elf with the sword...

If that helps you grok it better, sure.

A weird thing to bring up, since from what I remember, they got plenty of flak for those scenes (including the barrel ride).

I was saying I agreed with Peelee that the Hobbit took it too far (but they didn't do that only with elves, so it's moot for this scene.)

[Altair_the_Vexed]

You know, at this point, I'm hoping all the folk who seem to be angry with the show before it's even come out will just ignore it from here on, and the rest of the world can watch it in peace and judge it as a piece of stand alone fiction, inspired by the works of the Professor.

I mean, I'm a card carrying Tolkienist, read the whole History of Middle Earth and can translate elvish in my head (sometimes even correctly) - but I'm happy with the idea that Amazon will do their own thing, and maybe it'll be a good TV show.

[warty goblin]

You know, at this point, I'm hoping all the folk who seem to be angry with the show before it's even come out will just ignore it from here on, and the rest of the world can watch it in peace and judge it as a piece of stand alone fiction, inspired by the works of the Professor.

I mean, I'm a card carrying Tolkienist, read the whole History of Middle Earth and can translate elvish in my head (sometimes even correctly) - but I'm happy with the idea that Amazon will do their own thing, and maybe it'll be a good TV show.

This thread is putting me right there with you. I'm skeptical of the show, but I'm curious to see what it does; if it's awful I'll stop watching and continue with my life. But it might be just fine, or good. I don't know yet, and I'm not going to judge it yet just for the fun of being negative.

But the gleeful trashing of something of which nobody has seen more than like 5 minutes reminds me why I so rarely talk about things I actually like here. Or at least things that aren't so impossibly obscure that basically nobody else knows them.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by warty goblin
I'm skeptical of the show, but I'm curious to see what it does….

I was right there with you until I saw the sword-running stunt, which convinced me they’re taking their cues from the Hobbit movies.

Originally Posted by warty goblin
I'm mostly concerned with whether this feels like Tolkien.

To me, the sword-running is where it crosses the line into not feeling like Tolkien.

[Fyraltari]

You know, at this point, I'm hoping all the folk who seem to be angry with the show before it's even come out will just ignore it from here on, and the rest of the world can watch it in peace and judge it as a piece of stand alone fiction, inspired by the works of the Professor.

I wouldn't bet on it, this is the Internet.

I was right there with you until I saw the sword-running stunt, which convinced me they’re taking their cues from the Hobbit movies.
To me, the sword-running is where it crosses the line into not feeling like Tolkien.

What do you think of Legolas surfing down stairs on a shield? Because that's about the same level of impossible as an elf catapulting another with a sword.

At the end of the day, this stunt is of little matter and how much we'll find it bothersome or fun or how much we'll be willing to "forgive" it, will depends mostly on the overall quality of the show than it itself.

[Peelee]

What do you think of Legolas surfing down stairs on a shield? Because that's about the same level of impossible as an elf catapulting another with a sword.

At the end of the day, this stunt is of little matter and how much we'll find it bothersome or fun or how much we'll be willing to "forgive" it, will depends mostly on the overall quality of the show than it itself.

That's an excellent view. Speaking as a non-card-carrying Tolkienian, who has only read The Hobbit and seen all the movies (though I forget most of the LOTR series, I should re-watch), the shield surfing was stupid and made me eye roll but didn't ruin my enjoyment. Similarly, the sword jumping looks stupid and will likely make me eye roll but won't ruin my enjoyment. If ym enjoyment is ruined, it'll be by a lot of other stuff.

[Psyren]

If they overuse it I'll be eyerolling too. But the clip shown seems fine.

There are plenty of examples of wuxia-level stunts in non-wuxia properties, and it's just visual shorthand for "inhuman." Vampires wallrunning in Underworld, Amazonians in Wonder Woman catapulting off each others shields etc. Not only will LotR film audiences likely be expecting elves to do that stuff, it's also a handy and inexpensive way to separate the action in this from Game of Thrones, Witcher, Wheel of Time et al. for newcomers.