Who will live, who will die?

[Dame_Mechanus]

All right, here's a topic I haven't seen floating around here much: Who's actually going to make it through to the end of this comic alive?

As comics go, OotS is not a particularly savage environment; while there are a lot of plot-critical characters who die, it's pretty universally characters who have reached an ending of some sort and can go out if not on a high note at least on a fitting one. And we've already been clearing away a lot of the side antagonists over time. Sure, some of them are still kicking around, but Haley's done with the Thieves' Guild by all indications at the moment and I don't see Hel's vampires playing a significant role in the rest of the main story. Maybe in the epilogue, but not right now.

But that's hardly everyone in the comic. Heck, that's hardly the most important people in the comic. So what are the odds of the major characters whose survival feels up in the air living to the end of the comic? I think everyone is going to have their own estimations on this, but this is mine, and intended to prompt further discussion.

For the record and ahead of any and all further discussion, let me make something clear: in this case, my guess is not that every character listed will absolutely definitely not die and need some kind of spell to raise them from death. Resurrection is a thing that exists, and while it is not exactly common there are a lot of potential sources for it. So my prediction is about ultimate fates, whether that means that the character is killed in such a way that they cannot be resurrected or if circumstances would lead to them not wishing to be resurrected.

Order of the Stick

Roy: 80%
Honestly, while a heroic sacrifice is definitely within Roy's overall milieu, it feels like it doesn't have as much narrative punch especially when we already got an extended arc in which he was a corpse. It feels like there's just not a lot of narrative utility in having him drop again, and his plot resolution definitely seems like it's going to involve Roy dealing with the aftermath of heroism rather than being someone who got lost in the struggle.

Haley: 90%
For one thing, she's not the "heroic sacrifice" type. For another, Haley is a survivor and has a knack for living through even desperate circumstances; that's part of her whole routine. For a third thing, it's really hard for Elan to get his happy ending if the ending involves his girlfriend dying. Sure, there could be a bittersweet element to it, but the Oracle didn't promise him an esoteric happy ending!

Durkon: 85%
The man has a child, he also spent a good chunk of a story dead (if mobile), and quite frankly even Durkon getting a heroic sacrifice feels like it's just rehashing the heroic sacrifice he already made. Even more than Roy! There's still a possibility that he doesn't make it because he'd definitely go to Valhalla and he'd consider that a reward for a life well lived, but it seems pretty unlikely.

Vaarsuvius: 60%
If anyone is going to die in the main cast other than the obvious member, it's going to be V. Now, that might sound a little odd. V has a lot of regret and has made an enormous set of mistakes up to this point, but she's not really the self-sacrificing sort and her story isn't really about trying to make up for what she did with it... or is it? We don't actually have a very clear picture of how V's changes are ultimately going to change her in the long run; thus far all we've really seen is her reactions in Blood Runs in the Family, and she was largely out of focus in Utterly Dwarfed. Could it be that she figures out some way to turn the tables on the IFCC at the last minute involving her death? Could she ultimately find redemption there? I don't know, and I don't think it's a given, but it's possible.

Elan: 95%
Come on, we know he gets a happy ending! Him dying seems like a pretty weird way to get to a happy ending! Sure, it's possible, but it'd be really weird!

Belkar: 0%
Oracle says you're going to die, you're going to die. You should probably make sure Bloodfeast and Mr. Scruffy are taken care of ahead of time, guy.

Assorted Paladins and Allies

O-Chul: 60%
It feels morbid to say, but if you wanted a moment to motivate MitD to finally say that he was done with Team Evil for good, O-Chul dying at the hands of his supposed friends is a pretty solid way to sell it. Not to mention that O-Chul repeatedly talks about not being up to the task of this magnitude, about enduring, about his limitations, and so forth. He has escaped death many times, but it wouldn't exactly shock me if he decides the final task the Twelve Gods have given him is to sacrifice himself. Plus, you know... Paladin. It's what they do.

Lien: 75%
Again, Paladin. But Lien dying feels a bit more... not cruel but arbitrary. She doesn't really have an arc leading up to death specifically so much as she has one about being a Paladin living in some very interesting times. It'd be plausible, but it seems a little out there.

Minrah: 50%
Wait, didn't Minrah also already die once before? Yes. But we also know that Minrah has a role to fulfill and as of this point in the story, it's not altogether clear what that role might be. She is, in some ways, surplus to requirements when it comes to the Order's overall allies and doesn't have an obvious narrative purpose to fulfill. That's not to say I don't like Minrah - I think she's a fun character, and I am sure that she does have a reason to be with the party and helping them. But "dying in some horrible way" could very well be her narrative purpose, let's be frank.

Serini: 25%
Serini is elderly. She's living in fear of Xykon. She's watched someone give their life to defend the world before and in some ways I think she's still worried about not measuring up to that. "Not measuring up" seems to be in the back of her mind a lot. Honestly, her getting to actually do some damage to Xykon before she dies feels like it might be a very reasonable end for the character.

Sunny: 80%
Look, Sunny is a treasure and should be protected. I'll put our multi-eyed friend in the same relative tier as Roy and Durkon. Probably going to live.

Team Evil

Xykon: 5%
There are a handful of potential endings wherein Xykon gets away somehow and the story still has a satisfying ending, but not many, and a lot of them rely on cheats or you not thinking too hard about it. It'd wildly surprise me if he makes it through.

Redcloak: 50%
No, really, I feel like this one could go either way. Could there be a "Redcloak sees the error of his ways and tries to redeem himself" ending? Absolutely. Could there be a "Redcloak sees the error of his ways and dies in the process" ending? Also absolutely. I don't think we know enough right now to really be sure if he makes it through to the end or not.

Monster in the Darkness: 90%
Yes, technically the monster could die once the reveal finally happens... but that hardly seems fair. So much has been made of how he has changed and grown over the course of the comic. It seems like any reasonable ending would involve him finally living his life freely and exploring what that means for his characterization.

Oona: 70%
Really, the main reason I put her odds this low is because Oona is functionally just muscle at this point while also subtly pointing out that Redcloak may not be as smart as he thinks he is. We don't have a lot of narrative heft to her aside from providing another (largely comedic) viewpoint on Team Evil. There's no real reason to kill her, but it also wouldn't really shock me if she ate it in the process.

Greyview: 60%
All death inevitable. Also horrible.

[Riftwolf]

My guess is it'll be like Narnia and end in weird unsatisfying allegory.

[dancrilis]

Belkar: 0%
Oracle says you're going to die, you're going to die. You should probably make sure Bloodfeast and Mr. Scruffy are taken care of ahead of time, guy.

The Oracle is not all knowing - he thought that ghost Roy would forget his trip.

Xykon: 5%
There are a handful of potential endings wherein Xykon gets away somehow and the story still has a satisfying ending, but not many, and a lot of them rely on cheats or you not thinking too hard about it. It'd wildly surprise me if he makes it through.

I think you would need to define 'satisfying' for this, but ignoring that if you place a lot of value on the Oracle then it might be worth noting that he has no issue seeing how Vaarsuvius will gain ultimate power (i.e dealing with powerful forces of the lower planes), has no issues dealing with dragons with class levels, doesn't think anything of mocking some of what might be the highest level heroes in the world, has a direct link to his deity ... but describes Xykon as 'fricking scary', if you value the Oracle's opinion then underestimating Xykon may be a mistake (may be a mistake even if you don't value the Oracles opinion).

[Dame_Mechanus]

The Oracle is not all knowing - he thought that ghost Roy would forget his trip.

Something that was explained within the exact same strip because he didn't actually bother to check. The Oracle does not need to be all-knowing for the Oracle's prophecies to be accurate, and every single one of them have been.

I think you would need to define 'satisfying' for this, but ignoring that if you place a lot of value on the Oracle then it might be worth noting that he has no issue seeing how Vaarsuvius will gain ultimate power (i.e dealing with powerful forces of the lower planes), has no issues dealing with dragons with class levels, doesn't think anything of mocking some of what might be the highest level heroes in the world, has a direct link to his deity ... but describes Xykon as 'fricking scary', if you value the Oracle's opinion then underestimating Xykon may be a mistake (may be a mistake even if you don't value the Oracles opinion).

I'm not even sure what in the world this is supposed to be in reference to. The Oracle's reference to Xykon being scary is a statement that Roy still would have died if he had faced him while standing on the ground instead of in the air, not due to any sort of personal fear. We know that he's not particularly scared of Xykon, given that he just doesn't want to see him. And why would he be afraid of a dragon when he is specifically empowered by Tiamat?

Even beyond that, whether or not the Oracle finds Xykon scary has no bearing on Xykon's odds of surviving to the end of the story.

[InvisibleBison]

Elan, Haley and Roy are definitely going to live, in order to fulfill the Oracle's prophecy about Elan getting a happy ending. (Other people surviving might be necessary for that, but these three at a minimum are required for it to come true).

Durkon, Vaarsuvius and the MitD are probably going to survive. Durkon and V because they're good guys and this is a generally heroic and upbeat story. Durkon's survival is more likely than V's, because he's already died a bunch and they've got that whole redemption arc thing going on, but in both cases survival is probable. The MitD because he's going to switch sides to the good guys at some point, and I don't think the Giant wants to do a redemption death thing with him (since he hasn't really done much to be redeemed of).

Xykon and Belkar are definitely going to die, the latter because there's no way for him to survive without a major tonal shift which at this point would just be bad writing, the latter in order to fulfill the Oracle's prophecy.

Beyond that, I don't feel confident making predictions.

[hroþila]

For Belkar, I'd give him a 0.5-1% chance of the prophecy somehow becoming true in an unexpected way and him not actually dying.
For Xykon, I think there's a bigger chance that he'll survive but be imprisoned forever in some way - for example, if his phylactery ends up somewhere where it's safe but Xykon is automatically destroyed as soon as he regenerates. I'd put that at about 5-10%. Chances of Xykon just walking away are close to 0% in my opinion.
For Redcloak, sometimes I want to rate his chances of dying way higher than 50%. But it's anyone's guess really.

So yeah, by and large I agree.

[H_H_F_F]

V is non-binary, and usually referred to by the pronoun "they", I think.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that Elan is far more likely to die than you think. I'd give him a 25% survival rate.

He's matured a lot since he got that prophecy. He's the happy-go-lucky guy who has everything to look forward to. He's also very narrative-savvy. I think him dying to save his friends, and truly seeing it as a happy ending as long as Haley lives on, is far more likely now than it ever has been.

[hungrycrow]

V is non-binary, and usually referred to by the pronoun "they", I think.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that Elan is far more likely to die than you think. I'd give him a 25% survival rate.

He's matured a lot since he got that prophecy. He's the happy-go-lucky guy who has everything to look forward to. He's also very narrative-savvy. I think him dying to save his friends, and truly seeing it as a happy ending as long as Haley lives on, is far more likely now than it ever has been.

Even if he's willing to accept it now, him dying to save everyone wouldn't be a "happy" ending, it would be bittersweet.

[Fyraltari]

Xykon and Belkar are goners. Doubt anybody else on the Order is going to bite it. Maybe Vaarsuvius, but even then, I feel they're more likely to get redemption through a lifetime of atonement rather than heroic death (I suspect they will heroically sacrifice their magic somehow, though).

If O-Chul dies then his aunt and the Monster in the Dark will be sad and I don't want it. More seriously, I doubt any of the Azurites are in danger. Daigo will probably have to reveal his last name, though.

Redcloak, I give even odds of croaking.

Serini is probably going to die, if only to round out the Scribblers' story.

[Zarhan]

Frankly, considering that there is a definite afterlife, the impact of death in this particular story is far less than in the typical one where deaths are final and they cause Wham moments. Technically, even if we get a Total Party Kill, we could still have an epilogue where we follow our heroes as their spirits saunter around in Outer Planes. As Hilgya points out, most deaths are just 10 minutes cleric spell away, and as we have seen, to Durkon and Minrah death just means a chance to start chugging down beer in Valhalla.

The far more interesting question is which characters are going to end up either consumed by snarl (as "true" death as it can be) or stuck in some limbo (not the plane Limbo) which keeps them from moving on but removes their agency (such as ending up inside a fancy gem with Soul Bind, getting turned into ghost, etc). My guess is that at least one of the villains will end up tangled.

[Metastachydium]

My guess is it'll be like Narnia and end in weird unsatisfying allegory.

K. Just don't get too attached to that theory.

If O-Chul dies then his aunt and the Monster in the Dark will be sad and I don't want it.

I'm also vehemently opposed to the idea that O-Chul must die to motivate the Monster. He did plenty of that already through not dying and being there for the Monster. (Further, we're talking about O-Chul. If anyone thinks stuffing him into the fridge has any chance to do him lasting harm, they should know that they are wrong and they should feel wrong.)

More seriously, I doubt any of the Azurites are in danger.

Well, Hinjo certainly won't. Belkar's going to save him.

Serini is probably going to die, if only to round out the Scribblers' story.

But her death might not be as violent as many seem to think it will be. (To stay in keeping with the real purpose of this forum,) a Yoda death would feel kind of appropriate.

Frankly, considering that there is a definite afterlife, the impact of death in this particular story is far less than in the typical one where deaths are final and they cause Wham moments. Technically, even if we get a Total Party Kill, we could still have an epilogue where we follow our heroes as their spirits saunter around in Outer Planes. As Hilgya points out, most deaths are just 10 minutes cleric spell away, and as we have seen, to Durkon and Minrah death just means a chance to start chugging down beer in Valhalla.

Well, yes, but no. That thing where our heroes "die but it's fixed somewhere in the next book" featured in the story to great effect, but more of it would probably be a bit too much. Meanwhile, staying dead and ending up in four different afterlives, leaving loved ones behind on the Material would be anything but a satisfying epilogue for the story.

[Precure]

Even if they die, it wouldn't make sense for anyone other than Xykon and Belkar to stay death.

[Crusher]

Who lives, who dies, Elan tells your story.

[Edreyn]

Whatever happens to the race and state of goblins, Redcloak MUST die. He is evil beyond redemption and committed many atrocities, too many to be accepted even if his cause will be accepted as noble. He must be punished.

Of course Xykon, as main villain must die too.

MitD almost for sure will live and be happy in his life. Maybe he will find his species and they will be non-evil.

Order, maybe with exception of Belkar, will live and have a happy ending. Maybe even for Belkar the prophecy will shoot in some unexpected way, and he will survive too.

Trio of fiends, deities and other non mortals will continue to exist and do their good/evil deeds for eternity.

[Liquor Box]

Elan: 95%
Come on, we know he gets a happy ending! Him dying seems like a pretty weird way to get to a happy ending! Sure, it's possible, but it'd be really weird!

Going to the best of the afterlives seems almost the definition of a happy ending, especially if it follows a satisfactory victory. It's also consistent with the sort of prophecy subversion that happened in Durkon's case

[hroþila]

Going to the best of the afterlives seems almost the definition of a happy ending, especially if it follows a satisfactory victory. It's also consistent with the sort of prophecy subversion that happened in Durkon's case

No, that's an ending where Elan is personally happy, not an ending to the story that Elan (a trained bard with a penchant for traditional storytelling) would consider a happy one. There is a crucial difference between the two. As noted, the former would be a bittersweet ending at most.

[Liquor Box]

No, that's an ending where Elan is personally happy, not an ending to the story that Elan (a trained bard with a penchant for traditional storytelling) would consider a happy one. There is a crucial difference between the two. As noted, the former would be a bittersweet ending at most.

What do you think is required for a happy ending from Elan's perspective, other than defeating the bad guys and dying heroically, and going on to personal happiness?

If a hero dying makes it bittersweet, than does that count against Belkar dying? For all the talk in the other thread about Roy's opinion on Belkar, I don't think Elan would want him dead.

[hroþila]

I agree that Elan doesn't want Belkar dead, but we already saw in the illusion that his death wouldn't preclude a wildly happy ending for Elan, so there's that. It's hard to draw a line of just how much death Elan would accept to still consider it a happy ending, but I think the line exists nonetheless.

That said, while it's not the first time I bring up this argument about bittersweet endings, I think I find it less and less convincing each time?

[H_H_F_F]

Here's the thing: Elan dying after saving everyone and being at peace with his decision would be very bittersweet for us. It'd be very bittersweet For Haley. But if Elan will truly be at peace with his decision, and with the world - which I think he is now capable of - it'll be a happy ending for him. And that's all he was promised.

[Metastachydium]

What do you think is required for a happy ending from Elan's perspective, other than defeating the bad guys and dying heroically, and going on to personal happiness?

If a hero dying makes it bittersweet, than does that count against Belkar dying? For all the talk in the other thread about Roy's opinion on Belkar, I don't think Elan would want him dead.

Here's the thing: Elan dying after saving everyone and being at peace with his decision would be very bittersweet for us. It'd be very bittersweet For Haley. But if Elan will truly be at peace with his decision, and with the world - which I think he is now capable of - it'll be a happy ending for him. And that's all he was promised.

Um, what? If Elan dies fighting Team Evil (or Xykon (or Redcloak (or the IFCC))) there's two things that may follow: he's
1. either brought back by way of magic which he would likely find thoroughly meh (In his own words, the comic's been there, done that already);
2. or winding up dead for good. Now, I fail to see how he getting separated from Haley for what might be a very long time, not getting a chance to catch up with her mother, the only known member of his family who's neither dead, nor Tarquin, and who's clearly important to him is something that he'd pick over not dying a cool death early.

[H_H_F_F]

Um, what? If Elan dies fighting Team Evil (or Xykon (or Redcloak (or the IFCC))) there's two things that may follow: he's
1. either brought back by way of magic which he would likely find thoroughly meh (In his own words, the comic's been there, done that already);
2. or winding up dead for good. Now, I fail to see how he getting separated from Haley for what might be a very long time, not getting a chance to catch up with her mother, the only known member of his family who's neither dead, nor Tarquin, and who's clearly important to him is something that he'd pick over not dying a cool death early.

It's not about dying a cool death. It's about "if this is what it takes to save Haley, my friends and the world, then I'm happy to do it.

[Fyraltari]

Whatever happens to the race and state of goblins, Redcloak MUST die. He is evil beyond redemption and committed many atrocities, too many to be accepted even if his cause will be accepted as noble. He must be punished.

This is your opinion and I respect it, but know that I do not share it.

[brian 333]

100% Alive:
Elan, Haley
I believe their fate will be tied to that of the world in the rift. They will begin a new adventure in a new land.
It will create a way for them to permanently exit Ian and Tarquin's story, give them new adventures where they are the main characters instead of the supporting cast, and most of all, create an environment where Elan and Haley can have their happy ending without their baggage of the past following them.

MitD
Monster-san has to have a chance to grow up.

Julia
While I think Julia will play a part in the future development of the plot, I don't think her death would in any way add to the story. We don't have the narrative investment in her that would make killing her off a meaningful plot development.

90% Alive
Redcloak
He has to survive long enough to see the long term consequences of his actions. Dying would allow him to escape and never have to face what he's done.

80% Alive
Durkon, Vaarsuvius
Both characters have reasons to live, but more importantly, I can conceive of very few meaningful ways that their deaths might add to the story. Durkon needs to be the father he never had to Kudzu, and Vaarsuvius needs to be the parent he never was to his children.

The Paladins, Oona, Greyview
What story purpose would be served by their deaths? Sure, when the time comes, it may make sense, but at this point the only conceivable reason would be noble sacrifice, in which case, why not have a main character do it?

50% Alive
Roy
I used to lean toward Roy's survival being guaranteed by Elan's 'Happily Ever After' but have since realized that the story of Roy's noble sacrifice to save everyone and everything would serve as well. Elan would be proud to tell and retell Roy's heroic saga, though it may not rate a ten-thousand stanza epic poem.
However, it could serve many different plot and character points for Roy to die.
Examples:
Roy, choosing between the final defeat of Xykon and saving Belkar from The Snarl, chooses to try and fail to save Belkar. He dies, the rest of The Order takes out Xykon, the world is saved.
Roy sacrifices himself to protect the casters as they seal a rift.
Roy destroys Xykon, but dies in the deed.

0% Alive
Xykon
Aside from the fact that he was already 0% alive at the beginning of the story, we have his destruction as the single overarching reason for the comic. He may have some afterlife shenanigans, but his creature type will be changed to Outsider.

Belkar
Not just because The Oracle said it, but because it would neatly wrap up his story. Too many people have too many opinions on what his afterlife should be. Leaving that an open question invites end-of-book disappointment along the lines of, 'it was all a dream'. Remember the end of Stewie's simulation in Family Guy?
If The Author does choose an afterlife for Belkar, 2/3 of the readers will be angry because it was implausible in their opinion, and it really doesn't matter which is chosen. That's my secondary reason for proposing his will be a 'death by Snarl' event.

[InvisibleBison]

It's also consistent with the sort of prophecy subversion that happened in Durkon's case

Durkon's prophecy wasn't subverted. It came true exactly as the Oracle said. Durkon died, and then he went home, thus his return home was posthumous.

[KorvinStarmast]

Who will live, who will die?
To slightly misquote a very successful movie:
Everyone dies, not everyone truly lives.

My guess is it'll be like Narnia and end in weird unsatisfying allegory.

Likely.

Roy: 80% ... his plot resolution definitely seems like it's going to involve Roy dealing with the aftermath of heroism rather than being someone who got lost in the struggle.

I'll drop two centavos on this, yes.

Haley: 90%
Haley is a survivor and has a knack for living through even desperate circumstances; that's part of her whole routine. For a third thing, it's really hard for Elan to get his happy ending if the ending involves his girlfriend dying.

Low hanging fruit.

Durkon: 85%

Try 99%. He's already died. More than once.

Vaarsuvius: 60%
If anyone is going to die in the main cast other than the obvious member, it's going to be V.

Two centavos bet against. V's attempt atonement, and quest thereof, is now V 'rides off into the sunset' after the third time out with the fiends. It takes up the remainder of V's long elven life, off screen.

Elan: 95%

Try 99%.

Belkar: 0%

Two centavos for this bet.

Assorted Paladins and Allies

O-Chul: 60%

I'll go 50-50 on this. His purpose is the safety of the gate, which didn't work out, so now it's the safety of the world. He's willing to give his life in that cause.

Lien: 75%

Another protection from fridging issue here.

Minrah: 50%

Two centavos against. She's got a whole life to try and life, and came back to do it.

Serini: 25%

She'll go to 0 HP and regenerate, unless Xykon nails her with a meteor swarm.

Sunny: 80% Probably going to live.

See also the Elan factor.

Team Evil

Xykon: 5%

Try 0%. Pretty sure Rich won't be writing a sequel; this isn't the Diablo franchise, this is Order of the Stick.

Redcloak: 50%
No, really, I feel like this one could go either way.

to tough to call. But I think he's gonna go and meet his brother before it's over, and Jirix will lead the nation of Gobbotopia into their future ...

Monster in the Darkness: 90%

Two centavos for.

Oona: 70%
Greyview: 60%
All death inevitable. Also horrible.

I'll suggest 90% for both.

Frankly, considering that there is a definite afterlife, the impact of death in this particular story is far less than in the typical one where deaths are final and they cause Wham moments.

Agree.

The far more interesting question is which characters are going to end up either consumed by snarl

Agree.

[Metastachydium]

It's not about dying a cool death. It's about "if this is what it takes to save Haley, my friends and the world, then I'm happy to do it.

That would be a pretty badass capstone on his character growth, but you'll have to try harder to convince me that dying for the people he loves or cares about counts as "happy" if the alternative is living on alongside them.

1
Roy, choosing between the final defeat of Xykon and saving Belkar from The Snarl, chooses to try and fail to save Belkar. He dies, the rest of The Order takes out Xykon, the world is saved.
Roy sacrifices himself to protect the casters as they seal a rift.

I don't see what good this would achieve beyond making sure that Eugenestays on the clouds. I mean, I can see why the idea of him overcoming his obsessive desire of beating Xykon with just his sword could appeal to one, but I don't know what purpose his getting erased from existence forever in the process would serve.

Roy destroys Xykon, but dies in the deed.

Now this is even worse for (mutatis mutandis) pretty much all the reasons above.

[H_H_F_F]

That would be a pretty badass capstone on his character growth, but you'll have to try harder to convince me that dying for the people he loves or cares about counts as "happy" if the alternative is living on alongside them.

Oh, there's the disagreement: in my mind, a mature person (which Elan has become) doesn't measure their choices and what happens to them compared to some ideal they've imagined.

Meaning, if the obvious real alternative isn't "live alongside them" but "let the world end", then "save the world and your girlfriend gets to live" is a pretty damn happy ending, regardless of "it would've been nice to get to live and be a billionaire and go to the moon". If all those seem equally improbable, then getting to save the world/Haley is a very happy ending indeed.

I'm also just thinking about the way that Durkon's prophecy was realized, but not in the way we/he imagined it; I'd wager it'd be the same for Elan. The specification of "for you" has to carry some narrative weight, and "not for Belkar because he died, as another prophecy already told you" isn't it.

[Metastachydium]

Oh, there's the disagreement: in my mind, a mature person (which Elan has become) doesn't measure their choices and what happens to them compared to some ideal they've imagined.

Meaning, if the obvious real alternative isn't "live alongside them" but "let the world end", then "save the world and your girlfriend gets to live" is a pretty damn happy ending, regardless of "it would've been nice to get to live and be a billionaire and go to the moon". If all those seem equally improbable, then getting to save the world/Haley is a very happy ending indeed.

In my mind, accepting with grace and valour a horrible fate (such as dying a horrible death and losing everything one held dear, in part irrevocably) is not quite the same thing as being happy about it, nor is "given the circumstances, that was a painful but acceptable price to pay" the same thing as "yay, I've just had a happy ending", regardless of one's maturity.

[H_H_F_F]

In my mind, accepting with grace and valour a horrible fate (such as dying a horrible death and losing everything one held dear, in part irrevocably) is not quite the same thing as being happy about it, nor is "given the circumstances, that was a painful but acceptable price to pay" the same thing as "yay, I've just had a happy ending", regardless of one's maturity.

I get where you're coming from. I guess we'll see.

[Zarhan]

Whatever happens to the race and state of goblins, Redcloak MUST die. He is evil beyond redemption and committed many atrocities, too many to be accepted even if his cause will be accepted as noble. He must be punished.

How is death exactly a punishment, especially for a favored(?) high priest? They get to join their god. This is actually pretty common in D&D, e.g. drow High Priestesses get to become handmaidens of Lolth.

Complete oblivion by getting tangled, sure, but death, pfft.