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Thread: Who will live, who will die?
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2022-07-20, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2022-07-20, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
What do you mean, "may or may not be the case"? Of course the Scribblers knew about the Snarl and could be told about it. That doesn't mean that Thor could get in touch with them. The only one of them we know to be religious is Soon, and he worships the Twelve not Thor, so even if they got access to Commune (I don't think Paladins can cast that, but with a scroll, maybe?) or died they would most likely end up meeting the Twelve.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2022-07-20, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
It's a good thing then that other than musing about whether Kraagor even had a family or not, I've been talking about the three dwarves on the last panel discussing the big Gate their employer seems to have considered important for some reason. Hence the parenthetical remark concerning knowing about the Gates versus knowing about the Snarl.
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2022-07-20, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-07-20, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
"Awright, Thor, we finished our initial survey of Valhalla. Got a lotta bad news for you. For one thing, you've got water damage on the supporting pillars, looks like they haven't been replaced in a long time. That'd be bad enough, but when was the last time you had someone examine these floorboards? Looks like a lot of liquid damage here, too; bet it's all the parties you throw in here. Your foundation is going to need to be redone, and that ain't cheap no matter how you slice it. Bottom line, yer lookin' at about half a million gold worth of work here, and that's if we do the bare minimum. Frankly I'd like to rip out a couple of walls and really redo things, but that's another quarter mil right there."
"Huh. Okay. What if I told you about the forces underpinning the universe?"
"Read the invoice, pal, no discounts for cosmological revelations.""But it always seemed weird to me to get mad about things going wrong, as if everything turning out OK was promised to anyone, ever. There wouldn't need to be paladins if the world was, like, fair." -Lien
I get to be a favorite today!
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2022-07-20, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
A) You really could have made that clearer.
B) Not all dwarves worship Thor.
C) What makes you think these dwarves can contact Thor or vice-versa to have a chat about it?
It seems to me much easier to think that the reason Thor never sent any mortal emissary to the Dark One's agents before durkon & Minrah is simply because these two were the first time he had such an opportunity rather than it being because of the fall of Azure City.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2022-07-20, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
That requires destroying him first.
How?
How?
How?
How?
Spoiler: Start of DarknessThat happened once. It did not turn out well.
Still Meteor Swarm means he can probably Still Ghostform. And if he can't, well, Still Meteor Swarm.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-07-20, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
My preferred option is to kick him upstairs - i.e trick him into divinity.
As a deity he would have to put up with all the god rules, he would have to rely on mortal worship, his very nature would depend on beings nearly infinitely less powerful then him etc.
Xykon has likely always since childhood been so powerful he never needed to care about random commoners - making him utterly dependant on random commoners without any real ability to influence them, well a good author (i.e The Giant, and not me) might be able to deliver that in a satisfying way for the audience.
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2022-07-20, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
A.) nothing indicates that's something that one can be "tricked" into.
2.) or even that it's a choice at all.
iii.) and even then, other gods don't care about random commoners. Hel seems pretty cruel and the only reason she's suffering now is because she made a bad wager.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-07-20, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
I suspect that if Xykon saw a path to divinity he might jump at it before thinking about the consequences of success too much.
2.) or even that it's a choice at all.
iii.) and even then, other gods don't care about random commoners. Hel seems pretty cruel and the only reason she's suffering now is because she made a bad wager.
For clarity I don't mean care about random commoners individually I mean care about random commoners collectively (I can see how that might not have been clear).
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2022-07-20, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-07-20, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
This. You don't need to be nice to get worshippers. Either Xykon successfully manages a death cult, does more evil than ever, and is somewhat annoyed by having to work against god rules; or he fails and this is just a very slow way of killing him that kills a bunch more people in the process. I can't see why anyone in story would pursue this plan if it were even a possibility.
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2022-07-20, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
Last edited by Peelee; 2022-07-20 at 08:18 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-07-20, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
I mean, the only good joke I can think of it is Elan noting that it worked in Aladdin!
I'm not 100% convinced that Xykon absolutely needs to be destroyed outright, but that 5% is basically "maybe there's some process through which he gets trapped in an endless cycle of torment that he can't die to get out of." It does not include "maybe he becomes a literal deity and gets exactly the sort of power he's always wanted."
Not to mention that I cannot see Elan regarding that as a happy ending."But it always seemed weird to me to get mad about things going wrong, as if everything turning out OK was promised to anyone, ever. There wouldn't need to be paladins if the world was, like, fair." -Lien
I get to be a favorite today!
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2022-07-21, 01:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
Haha, I had the same thought about Aladdin before I read your post.
I think more generally, the suggestions for other ways Xykon could have horrible vengeance visited upon him mostly involve torturing him endlessly, and I think someone like Roy would have a problem with that. Let the Lower Planes do their job; we just want to end the threat he poses to everybody on the Material Plane.
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2022-07-21, 05:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
I think the most likely end for Xykon is getting annihilated by the Snarl, so there's no chance he can come back as a soul splice or something in Order of the Stick 2: Order Stickier.
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2022-07-21, 05:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2022-07-21, 05:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-07-21, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
And you really could have assumed I'm not just too dumb to realize the Scribblers knew about the Snarl, even though they are seen fighting it in the same strip, but here we are.
B) Not all dwarves worship Thor.
C) What makes you think these dwarves can contact Thor or vice-versa to have a chat about it?
It seems to me much easier to think that the reason Thor never sent any mortal emissary to the Dark One's agents before durkon & Minrah is simply because these two were the first time he had such an opportunity
rather than it being because of the fall of Azure City.
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2022-07-21, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
Dude, calm down. I haven't called you dumb, implied that you were or even thought that you were.
You replied to:
with:
You'll have to excuse me for thinking that, when replying to a sentence about the Scribblers with "maybe that's right, maybe not" and linking to a page that's 99% about the Scribblers, you were still talking about the Scribblers and not the three random no-name joke NPCs in the last panel. I was just confused by this link and even asked you what you meant by that.
Not, what's hard canon is that Thor is much more popular among the dwarves than among the humans, which just mean that there's a higher proportion of Thor-worshippers in the dwarven population than in the human one. I would bet the same is true of Dvalin, First King of the Dwarves, so I wouldn't assume that any random dwarf is a Thor worshipper.
By the look of it, that's not as huge an issue as you seem to think it is if they die well (which is apparently the norm).
Perhaps. My point is, that between Thor's moments of negligence and stuff like the dwarven contractors( or Kraagor's hypothetical family), that is hardly self-evident.
Well, I sure do prefer that to the AU!variant where it's not Soon's Gate but Dorukan's, if you catch my drift.Last edited by Fyraltari; 2022-07-21 at 11:28 AM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2022-07-21, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
Right. Put it another way - I can see Roy not stepping in if Xykon winds up in that position, but it doesn't seem like it'll be his goal. Heck, it won't even be in his top ten. Roy's goal is Xykon's destruction because he is very much of the belief that this is the path to provide the most people with the most benefit. He's open to alternatives depending on the circumstances, but he'd need a really good reason to go that route... and right now he has zero reason to believe that the world wouldn't be safer without Xykon gone.
His job isn't to make his punishment fit his crimes. His job is to administer final death to someone who definitely deserves that as a baseline."But it always seemed weird to me to get mad about things going wrong, as if everything turning out OK was promised to anyone, ever. There wouldn't need to be paladins if the world was, like, fair." -Lien
I get to be a favorite today!
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2022-07-21, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2022-07-21, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
I'm calm enough, thank you. I'm just not really good at getting my message across these days (e.g. the colon tumor link was there to lighten the mood). I continue to hold that if something can (likely, at the very least) be read in a way that makes sense and in a way that REALLY doesn't, it's nice to try and ascertain how it could make sense. That said, I can see how my reply could throw you off the trail; I mainly responded to the second half of yours without bothering the delete the rest. Apologies.
Not, what's hard canon is that Thor is much more popular among the dwarves than among the humans, which just mean that there's a higher proportion of Thor-worshippers in the dwarven population than in the human one. I would bet the same is true of Dvalin, First King of the Dwarves, so I wouldn't assume that any random dwarf is a Thor worshipper.
Again, that's only true if the dwarf is a worshipper of Thor,
But more importantly, once they're dead, how are they going to contact the goblins? Most people can't afford a Ressurection, and Dwarves are unlikely to Ressurect a loved one who's escaped Hel's clutches. otherwise they're sent somewhere else.
And, that's assumoing these guys are even dead in the first place. Sixty years isn't that long ago in Dwarf Years, for all we know, they're still in the construction business in Some Place Else.
What's more likely to you: "Out of the tiny number of people who were aware of the Snarl in the last sixty years, this is the first time one could get a proper briefing from Thor because of those very same rules that tied his hand for all of book 6" or "Thor already had a chance to try and solve the biggest problem he's had in 1, 000, 000, 000, 000s of years but didn't for some reason"?
I do not. What does this mean?
In other words, it would mean that the reason why the meeting took place as it did was that Redcloak and a close relative screwed up their own lives royally.
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2022-07-21, 09:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
Only Blackwing will survive the massive random slaughter at the end of the comic when the Snarl is let loose.
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2022-07-22, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
If you think "interesting" is an anticlimax, I feel sorry for you because it means you don't really know about interesting.
~Robin McKinley
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2022-07-22, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
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2022-07-23, 05:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-07-23, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
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2022-07-23, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Who will live, who will die?
From elsewhere on the internet:
Originally Posted by Tome and Blood
As long as that section of Tome and Blood is not reprinted or superseded by newer material, it still pertains to the rules at large.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-07-23, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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