Could Xykon Have Turned Himself Into A Demi-Lich?

[Ruck]

And that's totally fine. This isn't spinning a hot theory or a wild take, just a sense of "hmm, I think that'll come into play before all is said and done." If it doesn't, well, hey, no big deal. If it does, I win a fortune in theoretical quatloos.

Sure. I just like talking about this story, stories in general, and-- befitting my professional history-- probabilities.

I probably moved from about 5% to 15% on whether the fortress will come into play. So while I still think it's unlikely, I can now see something of a plausible path, however thin, that I didn't really see before.

I’d call it moribund.

I'm not sure if we have any Alan Partridge fans in the crowd, but I can't hear "moribund" without thinking about the second episode of Knowing Me, Knowing You.

[Peelee]

And that's totally fine. This isn't spinning a hot theory or a wild take, just a sense of "hmm, I think that'll come into play before all is said and done." If it doesn't, well, hey, no big deal. If it does, I win a fortune in theoretical quatloos.

I'll take that bet. One fortune on the line!

[Jasdoif]

Ultimately I still feel like the climax will be the battle for the final Gate, and tacking on another chase and battle after that would defuse the importance of that confrontation.

That's how I felt about Durkon defeating HPoH; and that turned out to be leading into another chase and battle (well, a battle with a timer attached), and it worked out quite effectively. Hard to tell whether I'm going overboard on trying not to make the same mistake again, of course.

Spoiler: Banana-vision

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I sorta-kinda want to see Belkar's last breath ever as stopping Xykon at the cost of himself, after Xykon has declared that he has no beef with the Order since he's planning to exterminate every last goblin on the planet just to spite Redcloak; so the overall comic can end with this:

A goblin legion marches before us. We face one now for the first time with a sense of hope. Because if that...halfling...that...
Psst! Belkster! Belkster!
*sigh* Belkinator, can learn the value of goblin life—
Aww.
—maybe we can too.

[Ruck]

That's how I felt about Durkon defeating HPoH; and that turned out to be leading into another chase and battle (well, a battle with a timer attached), and it worked out quite effectively. Hard to tell whether I'm going overboard on trying not to make the same mistake again, of course.

The key differences here are that A)We knew that Hel's primary plan was to interfere with the Council of Clans vote, and we knew the Ex-Exarch and companions were already headed there.

Here, the primary plan of Team Evil is to seize a Gate, and we have no reason to think anyone is or will be headed to the fortress. Especially since we know the reason anyone would head there, Xykon's phylactery, isn't actually there.

Spoiler: Banana-vision

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I sorta-kinda want to see Belkar's last breath ever as stopping Xykon at the cost of himself, after Xykon has declared that he has no beef with the Order since he's planning to exterminate every last goblin on the planet just to spite Redcloak; so the overall comic can end with this:

A goblin legion marches before us. We face one now for the first time with a sense of hope. Because if that...halfling...that...
Psst! Belkster! Belkster!
*sigh* Belkinator, can learn the value of goblin life—
Aww.
—maybe we can too.

Spoiler: speculation and bonus content

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I do not exactly know what Belkar's death will look like, but I would make a decent bet that it's going to fulfill the rest of Sangwaan's prophecy from the bonus strip at the end of Don't Split the Party.

[Jasdoif]

The key differences here are that A)We knew that Hel's primary plan was to interfere with the Council of Clans vote, and we knew the Ex-Exarch and companions were already headed there.

Here, the primary plan of Team Evil is to seize a Gate, and we have no reason to think anyone is or will be headed to the fortress. Especially since we know the reason anyone would head there, Xykon's phylactery, isn't actually there.

I suppose....But at the same time, we were just reminded about the fauxlactery with the latest strip (1263, if you're looking at this post in the not-necessarily-distant future)...which reminded me that we were similarly reminded of Xykon's astral thingy back in the previous book.

Which, on one hand, is clearly presented as a joke. On the other hand, this exact thing happened in UHF: Kuni showed up as the host of the Wheel of Fish segment around halfway through the movie, with students from his karate school as support for the game show. Obviously this was a big joke, but it was also a reminder that they existed in case you had forgotten they existed since the first ten minutes of the movie; because they play a role in the penultimate climax of the movie. (It's not hard to make UHF sound more serious than it actually is.)

Spoiler: speculation and bonus content

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I do not exactly know what Belkar's death will look like, but I would make a decent bet that it's going to fulfill the rest of Sangwaan's prophecy from the bonus strip at the end of Don't Split the Party.

Spoiler: Don't Split the Party bonus strips

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Good point; but it's going to hard to narrow down how Belkar saves Hinjo's life until/unless Hinjo ends up in the same scene as Belkar.

[Ruck]

I suppose....But at the same time, we were just reminded about the fauxlactery with the latest strip (1263, if you're looking at this post in the not-necessarily-distant future)...which reminded me that we were similarly reminded of Xykon's astral thingy back in the previous book.

Yeah, with the astral fortress, as I mentioned, even the comic was titled "But It Probably Won't Come Up." I think it still makes more sense as a decoy destination with the reader knowledge of the fake phylactery. It would take something like you said, Xykon teleporting there prior to being destroyed, for it to matter. I just think the fact that its reason for being is not actually present there makes it more likely we never visit.

And I just don't see a way the fake phylactery can't come up, since destroying Xykon is so central to the Order's quest and thus the story.

Both reminders serve, as much as anything, as signs to the reader of the growing mistrust and discord on Team Evil.

Which, on one hand, is clearly presented as a joke. On the other hand, this exact thing happened in UHF: Kuni showed up as the host of the Wheel of Fish segment around halfway through the movie, with students from his karate school as support for the game show. Obviously this was a big joke, but it was also a reminder that they existed in case you had forgotten they existed since the first ten minutes of the movie; because they play a role in the penultimate climax of the movie. (It's not hard to make UHF sound more serious than it actually is.)

You know, I've still never seen UHF somehow. It's somewhere on my long list of films to get to-- which, while I've done a decent job clearing a lot of those in the last two years, is still nowhere near empty.

But I do have to ask, just how many climaxes does UHF have?

Spoiler: Don't Split the Party bonus strips

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Good point; but it's going to hard to narrow down how Belkar saves Hinjo's life until/unless Hinjo ends up in the same scene as Belkar.

Agreed, which is why I'm not making any prediction more specific than "it will happen in some way." Well, maybe one:

Spoiler: speculation

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: Take good care of Mr. Scruffy.

[Jasdoif]

But I do have to ask, just how many climaxes does UHF have?

Short version: the narrative structure is a bit nonconventional, and I prefer to say there's two climaxes rather than try to split the two contenders apart to declare one over the other.

Spoiler: UHF

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The overarching plotline is the competition between George and (R.J.) Fletcher, carried out by proxy between U-62 (a nearly bankrupt UHF station Weird Al George's uncle Harvey wins in a poker game, that George manages) and Channel 8 (a firmly established network affiliate that Fletcher owns). This is mostly a background presence, used to launch the other arcs and standalone comedy segments off of; but it does receive the largest effort at emotional payoff (the community-owned fundraiser succeeding, defeating Fletcher's attempt to pay off Harvey's sizable gambling debt in exchange for ownership the station) at the end of the movie.

Conversely, the most overt conflict in the movie occurs leading up to that: Fletcher's goon squad kidnapping Kramer Stanley, U-62's superstar, to cripple that fundraiser. It's played fairly straight from the antagonist side, and has the closest fascimiles of action scenes (including the several-minute-long Rambo parody) the movie has; but it's comedy from the protagonist side...all the way down to Kuni and some of his students ending the whole arc by beating up the goons (off screen) in a few seconds, after what is possibly the greatest comedy non sequitur in cinema history.

[Valynie]

if I remember Rightly , A lich transform into a demi lich when it is bored ...
Xykon still has too much fun with random slaughter

[Peelee]

You know, I've still never seen UHF somehow.

It is a masterpiece.

[Carl]

There's no reason for Xykon to pretend to be in the phylactery (if he even could), and there's no reason for him to hide in the fortress. And even if he could, it's on an infinite plane.

First in the scenario i laid out the point would be to bluff OOTS into thinking they got him. If he doesn't act all scared of them blowing up his Phylactery they're going to get super suspicious. Elan especially.

As for hiding in his fortress. Right now hiding there if his worries about RC are correct would be the worst thing he could do, but if RC is out of the picture? Well your further thoughts below apply, but also it would be the safest spot at that point for his real form to hang out in while he sends another fake out as Demi-Lichs are prone to do.

Think of it this way. You know about where I live. Birmingham, AL is not an infinite plane. It's pretty small, geographically speaking. You know I have a house. Think you could find it? Now imagine instead of being in in Birmingham, it's somewhere in the solar system. Which is unfathomably bigger.

And, to misquote Douglas Adams, that's just peanuts compared to an infinite plane.

Thats all fair, in the real world. Short of somthing around the range of a national security agency like the CIA or MI5 or similar your not pulling it off most likely. But where in a D&D setting with high magic, divine scrying, and other such nonsense. Depending on what defences are in place and what resources the order has access to at the time here's a whole bunch of different ways they could find it. Never-mind the power of narrative.

Another thought not strictly related to the topic of the thread, but it occurs to me, could Xykon have worked out the deception about the ritual and be planning to go along upto the point the ritual completes then cracking the gate just as it teleport away so it blows up in whatever plane it's transported to. Bunch of instant dead gods, world is destroyed and he calmly waits away in his astral fortress. it would be the kind of random mass murder he enjoys.

[Mike Havran]

Another thought not strictly related to the topic of the thread, but it occurs to me, could Xykon have worked out the deception about the ritual and be planning to go along upto the point the ritual completes then cracking the gate just as it teleport away so it blows up in whatever plane it's transported to. Bunch of instant dead gods, world is destroyed and he calmly waits away in his astral fortress. it would be the kind of random mass murder he enjoys.

Highly unlikely, since he needed to give it away to Tsukiko just so she could decipher what it does for him.

[Carl]

Doesn't rule out her having reported on it AFAIR, or even that he wanted to change the destination but didn't want to tell Tsukiko that.

I agree it's unlikely btw, just another random Xykon related thought i had.

[InvisibleBison]

Another thought not strictly related to the topic of the thread, but it occurs to me, could Xykon have worked out the deception about the ritual and be planning to go along upto the point the ritual completes then cracking the gate just as it teleport away so it blows up in whatever plane it's transported to. Bunch of instant dead gods, world is destroyed and he calmly waits away in his astral fortress. it would be the kind of random mass murder he enjoys.

The ritual doesn't actually move the gate. It just gives the Dark One the ability to cause the gate to move at his discretion. If Xykon broke the gate the moment the ritual completed, he'd just get a big explosion right in his face.

[Peelee]

First in the scenario i laid out the point would be to bluff OOTS into thinking they got him. If he doesn't act all scared of them blowing up his Phylactery they're going to get super suspicious. Elan especially.

Why? They don't know the phylactery will gain eyes and start talking. They didn't even know what a phylactery was until Xykon came back after they already thought they destroyed him. Audience knowledge is not character knowledge.

And all that besides, there's still no reason for him to pretend to be in it even if it was somehow the fake phylactery, because he's significantly more powerful than the Order and his real phylactery is (somehow, in this theory) safe in his astral fortress.

Notwithstanding that there's no thematic reason for any of this to happen to start with and it all seems very video-gamey instead of being a story.

[Dame_Mechanus]

Notwithstanding that there's no thematic reason for any of this to happen to start with and it all seems very video-gamey instead of being a story.

The MOBs of Greysky City were the real villain all along! Celia should have given Belkar those buffs when she had a chance.