IFCC theory

[brian 333]

The thing about magic in D&D is that the rules are the same for everyone.

We don't know which rules apply.

Is the ritual like a PC researched custom spell that only it's researcher knows? Does it require the active intervention of a deity? Is the cloak a required material component?

Presumably, any deity could perform the research and create a ritual similar to The Dark One's ritual. We have seen no such attempts, but that's no real obstacle.

Whether TDO's ritual can be used by other deities to move the gate where they wish is another story. Given his degree of paranoid, I'd bet he has fail-safes embedded in the ritual.

My quatloos are on, control defaults to TDO regardless who enacts the ritual, unless someone empowers a bluecloak. Or graycloak. Or whatever.

[KorvinStarmast]

My quatloos are on, control defaults to TDO regardless who enacts the ritual, unless someone empowers a bluecloak. Or graycloak. Or whatever.

Let's leave Gandalf in Middle Earth, shall we?

[Ellye]

I think there's a crucial question that the comics never answered:

What exactly survives a do-over of the world? What is erased?

That the material plane is erased and remade is a given. But what about those other planes? Are they just a part of "this" world and would, therefore, be erased with it? Or are they truly "outside" of this world and have always existed?

I theorize that most of the planes, except for the Astral one, are "part of the world". They were all created in this iteration of the world, and will die with this iteration of the world.

Why? Because, otherwise, every single outsider would know the truth about the world being constantly destroyed and remade. Celia and Sabine would know it. We never had any hint whatsoever of them knowing about the fact that the material plane gets deleted every once in a while, so I summarize that their planes also never existed before this iteration.

With that in mind, I think the gods erasing the world would erase the lower planes and the Fiends too. The only thing that survives the erasure of the world is the gods themselves, nothing else (and, sometimes, not even all of them).

If the IFCC somehow managed to discover that information, they might actually be laboring to save this world in their own twisted way. They want to keep existing, after all.

[Peelee]

I think there's a crucial question that the comics never answered:

What exactly survives a do-over of the world? What is erased?

The comic explicitly answered that.

[littlebum2002]

And technically a burrito is a type of wrap but if you try to order one from a sandwich place you're going to go hungry.

He says it transfers control of the Gate to The Dark One. Tsukiko, a cleric who was able to detect duplicity in the spell, did not question this. I don't have much credence for "well, technically, the wording could be weaseled..." claims.

Yeah I have to agree. The way he worded it makes it sound like the Dark One is the only option of a target of the ritual. Otherwise he would have said "to my deity", or something like that.

[Elanfanforlife]

I think there's a crucial question that the comics never answered:

What exactly survives a do-over of the world? What is erased?

That the material plane is erased and remade is a given. But what about those other planes? Are they just a part of "this" world and would, therefore, be erased with it? Or are they truly "outside" of this world and have always existed?

I theorize that most of the planes, except for the Astral one, are "part of the world". They were all created in this iteration of the world, and will die with this iteration of the world.

Why? Because, otherwise, every single outsider would know the truth about the world being constantly destroyed and remade. Celia and Sabine would know it. We never had any hint whatsoever of them knowing about the fact that the material plane gets deleted every once in a while, so I summarize that their planes also never existed before this iteration.

With that in mind, I think the gods erasing the world would erase the lower planes and the Fiends too. The only thing that survives the erasure of the world is the gods themselves, nothing else (and, sometimes, not even all of them).

If the IFCC somehow managed to discover that information, they might actually be laboring to save this world in their own twisted way. They want to keep existing, after all.

It was stated in the comic that the outsiders all have their minds wiped. Presumably in certain worlds, like sci-fi ones, they simply get rid of most of the outsiders.

[dancrilis]

Yeah I have to agree. The way he worded it makes it sound like the Dark One is the only option of a target of the ritual. Otherwise he would have said "to my deity", or something like that.

I am not sure if you are joking but he did say 'to my deity' then he names his deity - whether he named his deity for clarity as to who he meant, or whether he named his deity as a clarification as 'to my deity' was not accurate is unknown.

[mjasghar]

It was stated in the comic that the outsiders all have their minds wiped. Presumably in certain worlds, like sci-fi ones, they simply get rid of most of the outsiders.

More likely they remake most of them and you get leftover stuff eg fruit pie sorcerer and the ranch dressing elemental plane.
After all, the gods still exist and presumably have clerics even in sci fi settings as they need the various types of belief. So it’s unlikely that any of the worlds had no magic and impossible that any were atheistic.
Remember many of those worlds lasted seconds since it took billions of worlds to get to surviving a few thousand years.

[Metastachydium]

More likely they remake most of them and you get leftover stuff eg fruit pie sorcerer and the ranch dressing elemental plane.
After all, the gods still exist and presumably have clerics even in sci fi settings as they need the various types of belief. So it’s unlikely that any of the worlds had no magic and impossible that any were atheistic.
Remember many of those worlds lasted seconds since it took billions of worlds to get to surviving a few thousand years.

Also, all those worlds absolutely had to have afterlives (because those are a vital part of the soul economy, the only reason why the gods are still doing this), and these afterlives are known to be staffed by outsiders.

[hamishspence]

More likely they remake most of them and you get leftover stuff eg fruit pie sorcerer and the ranch dressing elemental plane.
After all, the gods still exist and presumably have clerics even in sci fi settings as they need the various types of belief. So it’s unlikely that any of the worlds had no magic and impossible that any were atheistic.

I could see the "sci-fi version of celestials and fiends" being the Vorlons and the Shadows (Babylon Five) or the Prophets and the Pah-wraiths (Deep Space Nine).

I think a point was made of how The Giant was a big fan of Babylon Five in War & XPs commentary. Didn't he even name the site itself as a reference to lines from Babylon Five?

From the season 4 episode The Long Night:


"It's like two giants fighting in a sandbox."

...

"Giants in the playground."

[Metastachydium]

I could see the "sci-fi version of celestials and fiends" being the Vorlons and the Shadows (Babylon Five)

Isn't neither of those being particularly good news kind of a point in that show?

[hamishspence]

Yup. Closer to CN and LN than CE and LG. But both are very "outsider-like".

[Metastachydium]

Granted. You may be on to something there.

[SlashDash]

The way I understood the dialogue, is that the IFCC wants the world to be destroyed.
Why exactly? that's not clear.

My guess is that they found some way to avoid the memory wipe and thus remember previous worlds or at least enough to understand about the Snarl that they can make a move on their own.

They plan to do something as part of the world destruction (or perhaps the recreation of the new one?) that would put them on top.

That explains why they hoped Hel would do the work for them, and get the gods to destroy the world. That explains why they wants OOTS and Xykon to fight each other. They know it will lead the gods to destroy the world eventually.