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Thread: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
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2022-07-29, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Most likely candidates for the new BP are:
Nakia
Shuri
Queen Ramonda
Okoye
M'Baku (unlikely given the silhouette, but possible)
Killmonger (unlikely, but also possible if he was kept in stasis.)
As for Riri Williams aks Ironheart:
SpoilerShe is definitely in this, and the hammering of the heart-shaped piece of metal at 1:33 is a deliberate callback to Tony Stark. I'm also fairly certain that's her fist-bumping Shuri at 1:13.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2022-07-29, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Riri:
Spoiler10 bucks says she's connected to this via the outreach center(s?) that T'Challa was setting up at the end of BP1. Tony's not around to be her mentor in this continuity, and they already did the 'mentor beyond the grave' thing with Peter Parker.NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2022-07-29, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
A friend of mine claims they are doing the "Doom war" story...
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2022-07-29, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2022-07-29, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Especially since the actual story is pretty touching; John Kani being a native Xhosa speaker inspired Chadwick Boseman to actually learn entire scenes in the language, which means that it got important despite not making much geographic sense but because of that personal connection. Considering that this was a decision made by Kani, Boseman, and Ryan Coogler, all of whom are far more authoritative than I am when it comes to making a film and building a continuity focused on black excellence, my instinct is to defer to their decisions on this matter.
Also I keep forgetting Ironheart will be involved in this, which makes me even more excited."But it always seemed weird to me to get mad about things going wrong, as if everything turning out OK was promised to anyone, ever. There wouldn't need to be paladins if the world was, like, fair." -Lien
I get to be a favorite today!
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2022-07-29, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Originally Posted by Dame_Mechanus
…despite not making much geographic sense but because of that personal connection.
This could be an interesting angle for stories set within Wakanda—the idea of tension between speakers of “traditional” Wakandan, who see themselves as guardians of the nation’s true heritage, and those who are open to learning and using new languages from outside Wakanda.
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2022-07-29, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
I confess im personally not very stoked for this.
But its likely just as much from a severe dislike of Wakanda.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2022-07-29, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
MCU Wakanda is at least a little less jerkish than 616 Wakanda, simply because there is a bit less of a technical differential. They're still hoarding stuff like antigrav, but at least they're not refusing to share the actual cure for cancer (that we know of)?
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2022-07-29, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Spoiler: Black Panther1I wonder how they're going to deal with that the Black Panther is defined by the ritual (no flowers) and not the costumeAsk me about our low price vacation plans in the Elemental Plane of Puppies and PieSpoiler
Evoker avatar by kpenguin. Evoker Pony by Dirtytabs. Grey Mouser, disciple of cupcakes by me. Any and all commiepuppies by BRC
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2022-07-30, 04:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Counterpoint: Conlangs are basically terrible and making a good one is a life's passion project for a linguistics professor not a two week job for a movie.
I do not think Marvel Studios are likely to find a linguistics professor from Uganda or Rwanda and say "take 20 years to make up a language".
And using a somewhat geographically appropriate Bantu language with a relatively small number of speakers would do the same.
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2022-07-30, 04:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
MCU Wakanda is at least a little less jerkish than 616 Wakanda, simply because there is a bit less of a technical differential. They're still hoarding stuff like antigrav, but at least they're not refusing to share the actual cure for cancer (that we know of)?
But i do find them arrogant and stuck up. Just about the only thing in that movie that made me considder watching another was Black Panther himself.
Well. And i then also find it a tiny bit dumb that a super-advanced civilisation still uses spears as their main weapon.
But still, its a subjective dislike.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2022-07-30, 05:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
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2022-07-30, 06:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Concur about M’Baku, his traditionalist isolationist outlook also gives Marvel a solid reason for Wakanda to not get involved in everyone else’s solo movies.
…which means the next Black Panther is probably going to be Shuri or Nakia since Marvel is going to want whoever gets the mantle available for cameos and Okoye has proven she’ll follow whoever is on the throne.
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2022-07-30, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
It's because they're super insular and didn't watch Stargate SG-1.
Otherwise they'd know better.
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2022-07-30, 08:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
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2022-07-30, 09:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
"Three blokes walk into a pub. One of them is a little bit stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
Androgeus' 3 step guide to Doctor Who speculation:
Spoiler- Pick a random character
- State that person is The Rani
- goto 1
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2022-07-30, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
Conlangs are basically terrible….
Originally Posted by Trafalgar
As far as the next King of Wakanda, my money is on M'Baku. In one on one combat, he destroys everyone left in Wakanda.Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
Concur about M’Baku, his traditionalist isolationist outlook also gives Marvel a solid reason for Wakanda to not get involved in everyone else’s solo movies.Originally Posted by Androgeus
Some of the trailer scenes have Angela Bassett sitting in the throne in council scenes as well as addressing the UN (or other similar international body), so it seems she’s at least regent for part of the film.
That said, Queen Ramonda is evidently a force of nature in her own right, so much of the Snap in Wakanda may have been defined by the power struggle between her and M’Baku. That’s an interesting dynamic in itself, since she may have felt she owed M’Baku for her son’s life, and for M’Baku’s support against the usurper; but that calculus would have changed after the Snap.
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2022-07-30, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Ask me about our low price vacation plans in the Elemental Plane of Puppies and PieSpoiler
Evoker avatar by kpenguin. Evoker Pony by Dirtytabs. Grey Mouser, disciple of cupcakes by me. Any and all commiepuppies by BRC
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2022-07-30, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Originally Posted by MCerberus
SpoilerWhat I was referring to were those flowers that start the vision quest, which were burned as part of the first movie.Spoiler: Flower PowerProbably the easiest issue to address. Either they find a new population of the heart-shaped herb, or Shuri synthesizes the relevant compounds herself.
And given recent history, the latter option would be the smart money in any case. We know that Wakandan technology isn’t static; Shuri has made major improvements in just a few years. It’s possible that they didn’t have the ability to synthesize the active compounds before, and/or had strong cultural resistance to doing so; but Killmonger’s insane desecration may have shocked them into taking measures to ensure that no one could undermine the tradition of the Black Panther like that ever again.Last edited by Palanan; 2022-07-30 at 10:56 AM.
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2022-07-30, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-07-30, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-07-30, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Spoiler: FlowersWould a synthetic version of the flowers work? We are talking about magic, what with talking to your ancestors. It would not be good for legitimacy purposes (and this is the kind of crisis that would cause a civil war in monarchies) if a synthetic version is used and it turns out they just get like, really high and all those revelations by the ancestors was just that.
Although I like the idea of just finding more plants. Don't want all those important plants stored as a monoculture (if not for disease some crazy person could burn them), just transplant some of them from the backup sacred grove.Ask me about our low price vacation plans in the Elemental Plane of Puppies and PieSpoiler
Evoker avatar by kpenguin. Evoker Pony by Dirtytabs. Grey Mouser, disciple of cupcakes by me. Any and all commiepuppies by BRC
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2022-07-30, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
*snip*
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2022-07-30, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
I find it a bit more dumb that a super advanced civilization determines its leader through primogeniture and ritual combat.
Picking someone on the basis of being able to beat up another guy is possibly the least effective ruler selection possible.
I just didnt want to derail this with to much Wakanda basnhing xD
Flowers
Spoiler
Im not certain why we are spoilering a what 8 year old movie?
But anyway. I though the Black Panther power at least in part were spiritual.
So its a little surprising if it would be possible to synthethise the herb.
Especially with no sample to work from.
But a secret stockpile of seeds are easy enough to explain.
thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2022-07-30, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
It's possible that finding new flowers will be a plot point of the films - I wouldn't be surprised if finding more flowers in some hidden place is something that happens at the end of act 2 or even into act 3, and a new Black Panther is chosen and reveals herself (I assume it will be Shuri or Nakia) just in time for the climactic confrontation.
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2022-07-30, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Originally Posted by MCerberus
Would a synthetic version of the flowers work? We are talking about magic, what with talking to your ancestors. It would not be good for legitimacy purposes (and this is the kind of crisis that would cause a civil war in monarchies) if a synthetic version is used and it turns out they just get like, really high and all those revelations by the ancestors was just that.
At this point the Wakandans are past masters of working with vibranium, and we know that their medical science is also well beyond ours, so it seems very likely that Shuri could whip something up without much trouble.
Cultural resistance is probably the main reason it hasn’t been done before now, especially since King T’Chaka seems like he was strongly traditionalist. But apart from the mythology of Bast granting visions to the first Wakandan king, I’m not seeing any magic involved in the actual operation of the herb. For all we know there’s something else mixed into the brew that’s providing the gateway-to-the-ancestors effect.
Originally Posted by Thrudd
It's possible that finding new flowers will be a plot point of the films - I wouldn't be surprised if finding more flowers in some hidden place is something that happens at the end of act 2 or even into act 3, and a new Black Panther is chosen and reveals herself (I assume it will be Shuri or Nakia) just in time for the climactic confrontation.
A while ago I was thinking that searching for the wild population could be a major story arc for the Wakanda series, but it could certainly show up in the next movie.
There are any number of ways they could approach this. In terms of providing an heart-shaped herb for a new Black Panther, probably the simplest would be a brief flashback showing a priestess or temple worker filching a couple just before Killmonger orders the burning. We only need one to kickstart a new Black Panther, and after that we could still have a story arc in the series about finding the lost wild population.
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2022-07-30, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
I mean in the case of "A bunch of Americans trying to create a central African conlang" that would be "sounds like an actual African language to central Africans and isn't massively culturally insensitive".
And there's basically no chance of producing that if you aren't from Central Africa and also a professor of Linguistics and had a lot of time.
Conlangs that try to sound like real world languages, made up by people who do not speak and have no in-depth cultural understanding of the languages they are trying to sound like are an amazingly bad idea. And doing this one thing wrong would basically undo all of the good representation the movie was aiming at because it would amount to mockery of the people it was trying to represent.
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2022-07-30, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
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2022-07-30, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
That's basically where it comes down for me, too. Like, this wasn't the decision of a bunch of white people assuming "all of Africa is basically the same," these were creative decisions made by black creatives working on a film celebrating black excellence. I might recognize that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense geographically, but my opinion in this context is so irrelevant that "secondary" doesn't really account for it.
Seeing a bunch of kids eager to do the Wakandan salute in the wake of the film matters more to me than geographic details of language. (And yes, I know, Chadwick Boseman got a little tired of all the "Wakanda forever!" chants afterwards. Still a king.)"But it always seemed weird to me to get mad about things going wrong, as if everything turning out OK was promised to anyone, ever. There wouldn't need to be paladins if the world was, like, fair." -Lien
I get to be a favorite today!
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2022-07-30, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Originally Posted by Trafalgar
M'Baku's traditionalist beliefs might prevent him from hitting an older woman so he holds back or hesitates at the coronation challenge. And then Queen Ramonda/Angela Bassett lays him out with a single blow from a club to the head. That's how I would have written it.
Originally Posted by Trafalgar
I find it a bit more dumb that a super advanced civilization determines its leader through primogeniture and ritual combat.
I hope they touch on it in some fashion, because it does seem odd the more you think about it.
Originally Posted by Thrudd
It's possible that finding new flowers will be a plot point of the films….
No evidence for this so far, but it’s the sort of storyline that could be unfolding alongside political struggles in the Wakanda series.