Mysterium Mafia

[flat_footed]

Time to ask even more questions!

flat, does "my initial reads line up pretty well with gac3" mean you wolfread them, and if so why?

gac, talk about your theory about the claims stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, flat, you need to bold your vote.

Actually no, just the opposite. Coming from a town viewpoint, someone having the first two conclusions I did has me give gac3 a slight town lean. Subject to either of those being accurate and either being a wolf; hard to say at this point.

And yes, thank you. Corrected.

[Snowblaze]

Now you've said that it seems obvious and I really should have realised without having to ask. My brain is not functioning this game.

Also I do have vague townleans; unfortunately those are bladescape and Xihirli, two of the players I'm paranoid about on general principle.

[gac3]

True! There is a strong water-themed vision. I own mysterium though and roughly 40% of the cards have water on them in some capacity, so there's going to be some inevitable collateral there. Won't deny that I should be on the list though!

Going to refrain from voting until a few others have had a chance to chime in. Forgot that flat_footed was here, there's a strong enough vehicle theme that I'm starting there until otherwise convinced.

Also, if anyone has characters in their sig, might be worth seeing if they match up well against any of the visions?

Edit: to Gac3 - Doesn't dead town know who the wolves are? I thought that was the whole point of the visions.

Oh. They might know who the wolves are? That would make sense. Has that been confirmed? My point is more "I have no idea what they know. For all we know they have the ability to see the wolf chat? Have a list of wolves? Have to work on their own reads? I have no idea, which makes it a little harder to figure out what angle to look at the visions from. Probably safe to assume they have a list of wolves though.

Snowblaze

Why did you rand wolf?

Also AV, Xi is 95% town. Stop.

Agreed on Xi. Pretty heavy town lean on them. Because they feel like town Xi.

...I didn't.

Also I may or may not have had a vague half-formed wolfread on Rogan that I was planning to talk about today, so... lolme, I guess?

Anyway. Reads. (This is before paying serious attention to the visions.)

awkward silence

Okay, I have no reads in which I have any confidence. I'll work on that. But first, visions!

- - - Updated - - -

First image: flame, water, sky, bicycle, house, field, blue, yellow, burning house
Second image: balloon, sky, figure in black who kind of reminds me of a wizard, blue, red
Third image: river, fishing, carriage, bridge, white horse, figure pushing the carriage looks witchy, grey-green-yellow haze
Fourth image: lion, woman in white looking through telescope, airship, field, men below holding... life-ring (what do you call those things), oar and paper of some sort, yellow, brown

And we know that at least one image is real and one fake.

...great.

Yeah, these are about as subjective as I thought.

- - - Updated - - -

Two fields makes Farmerbink the most obvious candidate. If the witches and wizards are an actual theme then I'm the one with a wizard for an avatar so... that might explain why bladescape wolfreads me?

Not really seeing how you get from "vehicles" to "flat_footed", Kraken. Please explain.

- - - Updated - - -

Also I didn't mention that there are camels in the last image. On the unlikely chance camels are relevant to anything.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay. I'm not getting anywhere with visions, so... normal solving,I guess.

- - - Updated - - -

Time to ask even more questions!

flat, does "my initial reads line up pretty well with gac3" mean you wolfread them, and if so why?

gac, talk about your theory about the claims stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, flat, you need to bold your vote.

- - - Updated - - -

I can find reasons to wolfread Farmerbink if I squint hard enough but then I have to wonder "am I just forcing a wolfread because the visions point to him" and that leads to constantly second-guessing myself.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm just scrolling through the thread and barely reading anything, let alone parsing anything.

Going to take a break, get answers to my questions and turn things over in my head.

Well... My original theory was it was a "shoot me wolves, no shoot me, no shoot me" kind of thing but then people kept saying it was just fun so I'm thinking I'm wrong.


Someone mentioned Mysterium being a real thing... Do the cards have specific meaning in the game? Like is this an "additional research may help" thing?

[Snowblaze]

Book Wombat 4: gac3, Farmerbink, 3SecondCultist, bladescape
Xihirli 4: Rogan, Let'sGetKraken, Snowblaze, Xihirli
Snowblaze 1: AvatarVecna
3SecondCultist 2: Book Wombat, Apogee1
Rogan 1: flat_footed

Running wagonomics assuming town!Xihirli.

The only possible wolf on the Xihirli wagon is Kraken fmpov. I don't necessarily think that's wolfy given that Wombat was clearly lead wagon before the Xihirli one got going and wolves wouldn't particularly care about saving him, but there's been a couple of minor pings on Kraken and I have nothing better to go on...

Wolves on Wombat wagon... gac is doing weird gac stuff and is nullish though they have a lot of posts so I should probably ISO them. I don't want to do ISOs, though.

Farmerbink is... probably slightly below null but that could just be because of the visions which are definitely influencing my reads and I don't really want them to.

3SC is just an ??? at the moment. Slight townlean if I squint but I don't really believe in it.

And bladescape, as I mentioned, is a townlean. Because I feel like wolf!bladescape would try to influence stuff a lot more than he did on D1, and that he wouldn't try to mislynch me without a lot more threadstate control than he currently has. (Though, you know, paranoia.)

AV is... AV. Part of me thinks posting walls about general strategy is towny for them but I've miscleared AV enough I don't want to actually townread them for it.

Apogee exists. Possibly a slight wolflean if I squint hard enough.

flat is... fine, I guess? Don't particularly want to kill him today.

So this turned into a general reads list instead of wagonomics despite my lack of reads.

Right, should actually talk about Xihirli, I think wolf!her is significantly less likely to advocate for her own death than town!her.

Anyway. Should vote someone. Farmerbink since we should get some wagons moving and I want to see how he responds to pressure.

[bladescape]

I do have reasons for my read, of which none of them have been guessed or will probably be guessed.

I think farmerbink is likely the scapegoat of things

- - - Updated - - -

The whole "Two fields" argument is kinda amusing because if you consider from our recently departed townfolk and his ghostly friend's point of view, do you really think that vague fields that don't even properly look like farmed fields is what would be the correct line to lead us to farmerbink?

[Snowblaze]

I do have reasons for my read, of which none of them have been guessed or will probably be guessed.

I think farmerbink is likely the scapegoat of things

- - - Updated - - -

The whole "Two fields" argument is kinda amusing because if you consider from our recently departed townfolk and his ghostly friend's point of view, do you really think that vague fields that don't even properly look like farmed fields is what would be the correct line to lead us to farmerbink?

...are you going to tell me what your reasons are?

Also how do "Farmerbink is the scapegoat" and "the two fields isn't a valid argument" fit together?

For me scapegoat -> mafia framing -> the images are intended to lead us to Farmerbink -> the argument itself isn't invalid, just who the visions came from.

(I don't think the visions alone are sufficient evidence to kill someone but I don't have reasons to townread Farmerbink independently of them and we need to have wagons.)

- - - Updated - - -

Part of me wants to play "guess why bladescape wolfreads me" but also I'm not going to case myself for him.

So... time to dig into the ISOs, I guess?

- - - Updated - - -

Spoiler: Farmerbink ISO

Show

A short-haired, sweat drenched man with unkempt clothes and a haggard stare literally stumbles through the door. "Gods alive, it's worse than the armpit of satan out there! Now which one of you bastards cut the wiring to my air-conditioner?!" He stares around angrily, suspiciously at the gathered mediums. "Spent three days getting parts for that thrice-d@mned box, and it's been over 100 every day!" He grumbles, irritable.

Slumping into a chair, a small puddle immediately begins to form where the sweat running down his back drips of the hem of his shirt. "You. I blame you. Yeah, I know you probably didn't do it, but I'm in no mood to think too seriously, and I don't like your shirt," Book Wombat

Spoiler: OOC

Show

I don't want to get known as the guy who always vote for the first guy to vote, so I'm voting for the second guy to vote! Neat, huh?! Also, he killed me last game after I explicitly warned him, and I'm not salty at all about it.

(In all seriousness, I'm not, but it amuses me to complain in jest)

RP is NAI. Random-ish vote is... who actually was the first person to vote? AV, for me. There was no AV wagon at that point, but there was a two-vote Wombat wagon already existing.

Didn't his first vote last game also involve jumping on a wagon? It did, so I can't really suspect him for doing the same thing he did as town.

It wasn't what I expected, but I can understand the process and can't really justify a wolfread.

He looks up suddenly. "I did? I mean, I've not slept a lot since then, and what sleep I got was muddled and worthless. I believe you, but I don't remember. All jokes aside, you're a dangerous potential wolf, but you're a valuable potential town, too. I got nothing."


The sweaty man snorts. "Can confirm," he grumbles, with a raised index finger.


:|

-_-

:|

That's hilarious, and totally true.


Listening intently, he begins to chuckles quietly. "Oh, I absolutely do not trust 3Sec," the haunted psychic mumbles. "He lives for this kind of thing! Whether he's killing us all or equally desperate for survival, he's more than mad enough to enjoy the trip either way!"

Forgetting about voting for me is probably NAI. I could nitpick calling me a potential valuable town without having prior experience of my town meta, but that feels like too much of a stretch.

Not trusting 3SC makes sense considering their talk in recruitment means they know each other from other parts of the forum.

"I see nothing. I know nothing. I'm going to sleep. Maybe it'll make more sense tomorrow."

The now only mostly-sweaty man prowls off into the dark mansion, ostensibly to find a suitable place to rest.

NAI.

So... that is not as concerning as I thought, I don't really believe my arguments that any of this is actively wolfy.

Eh. Keeping my vote there until I come up with a better idea or until he shows up and does towny stuff.

[bladescape]

...are you going to tell me what your reasons are?

Also how do "Farmerbink is the scapegoat" and "the two fields isn't a valid argument" fit together?

For me scapegoat -> mafia framing -> the images are intended to lead us to Farmerbink -> the argument itself isn't invalid, just who the visions came from.

(I don't think the visions alone are sufficient evidence to kill someone but I don't have reasons to townread Farmerbink independently of them and we need to have wagons.)

Scapegoat = "Oh we can pretend that these things say this even when it doesn't make a strong case and people will follow"

[Snowblaze]

Spoiler: Let'sGetKraken ISO

Show

I'm going to abstain (No Lynch) and sit here while I await a message from beyond - don't know enough about you all to know who's acting suspicious yet!

As a newer player, is there a benefit to voting Day 1? It seems like we're more likely to hit town than maf.

Fairly standard for a newbie. I don't remember seeing a new wolf doing this but also I can't remember the last time I saw a new wolf full stop. Slightest of town points?

Thank you all for the answers! I'll join in on the voting, then.

Even if it's lacking substance - in the absence of any available evidence, changing my vote from no one to Xihirli.

Yeah I can't tell if this is purely a chaos play that a wolf wouldn't make because it's too risky, or if this is the sort of thing Cultist might do precisely to trick us all into thinking he's too suspicious to possibly be a wolf, or if he knows that we know that he'll do that so this is him actually being town after all because he knows that he would eventually be dismissed and cleared, or...

I think it might be working

I could argue going along with Rogan's not-particularly-strong Xihirli case is wolfy; less strong an argument given newness. Paranoia is NAI.

I think it's all just for fun? But after your stunt day 1, you're absolutely Tanner.

NAI.

Interesting. So we know that between 1-3 of these are decoys. A few themes that immediately spring to mind are vehicles (3) and the sky (3). Two also feature animals. One features what looks like a field (Bink), but that could easily be obfuscation. Any thoughts on these themes?

It feels more likely that town would send multiple visions, since there are multiple wolves to hint towards, and that wolves would want to focus visions on getting someone voted out unfairly... but then again, wolves would want to obfuscate and town might want to focus on the strongest available evidence. Hm.

I disagree with this method of vision interpretation but also don't think it's particularly AI.

True! There is a strong water-themed vision. I own mysterium though and roughly 40% of the cards have water on them in some capacity, so there's going to be some inevitable collateral there. Won't deny that I should be on the list though!

Going to refrain from voting until a few others have had a chance to chime in. Forgot that flat_footed was here, there's a strong enough vehicle theme that I'm starting there until otherwise convinced.

Also, if anyone has characters in their sig, might be worth seeing if they match up well against any of the visions?

Edit: to Gac3 - Doesn't dead town know who the wolves are? I thought that was the whole point of the visions.

"I should definitely be a suspect" gives me a mild gut ping.

Don't get the flat thing, so slight wolf points for that pending an explanation.

Eh. If this were a more experienced player I'd be wolfreading it quite a bit. Since he's not... a little below null? Confidence low to non-existent.

Basically all my reads feel like squeezing blood out of a stone.

- - - Updated - - -

Scapegoat = "Oh we can pretend that these things say this even when it doesn't make a strong case and people will follow"

Yeah, that was the other explanation I thought of.

And taking that as a refusal to answer my other question, which is about what I expected.

- - - Updated - - -

3SC, why did you want to mess with specifically Kraken instead of anyone else?

[gac3]

Spoiler: Let'sGetKraken ISO

Show

Fairly standard for a newbie. I don't remember seeing a new wolf doing this but also I can't remember the last time I saw a new wolf full stop. Slightest of town points?


I could argue going along with Rogan's not-particularly-strong Xihirli case is wolfy; less strong an argument given newness. Paranoia is NAI.


NAI.

I disagree with this method of vision interpretation but also don't think it's particularly AI.


"I should definitely be a suspect" gives me a mild gut ping.

Don't get the flat thing, so slight wolf points for that pending an explanation.

Eh. If this were a more experienced player I'd be wolfreading it quite a bit. Since he's not... a little below null? Confidence low to non-existent.

Basically all my reads feel like squeezing blood out of a stone.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, that was the other explanation I thought of.

And taking that as a refusal to answer my other question, which is about what I expected.

- - - Updated - - -

3SC, why did you want to mess with specifically Kraken instead of anyone else?

Since your Kraken read is "nearly wolfy... But new so maybe not" it might be worth mentioning again, if any of the clues are suppose to hint towards names, Kraken is both the most obvious person to point out and matches multiple pictures if you assume "general water theme". So... Probably worth FOS due to that, at least as much as farmerbrink does for the fields.

[Snowblaze]

Since your Kraken read is "nearly wolfy... But new so maybe not" it might be worth mentioning again, if any of the clues are suppose to hint towards names, Kraken is both the most obvious person to point out and matches multiple pictures if you assume "general water theme". So... Probably worth FOS due to that, at least as much as farmerbrink does for the fields.

I'm in a weird position of half agreeing with this and half wolfreading it.

gac/Kraken not w/w, at least.

Also:
Farmerbink 2: flat_footed, Snowblaze
Snowblaze 1: bladescape
Apogee1 1: gac3
flat_footed 1: Let'sGetKraken
Posted without voting: AvatarVecna
No posts: Farmerbink, Xihirli, 3SecondCultist, Apogee1

[Xihirli]

This game was a mind****. Everybody had a power, and it flipped on its head when they died, but nobody was told that's what was happening, and nobody knew which player had died, only which rolename had died, but dying didn't mean you stopped participating in the game. Xihirli was getting berries and citrus fruits for scry results and figured it out despite the game's very premise was not only designed around denying town information, but actively misinforming them. And Xi figured it out.

Okay, I worked out that puzzle, but it took me until like the end of the game. I don't think we have that kind of time.

As far as my D1 idea for killing a player I know more, that's not going to work anymore for two big reasons. One, they're going to be a smaller percentage of the dead people now. Two, we can't keep sacrificing townies to get better visions. It's time for wolf hunting. And Book Wombat isn't a bad choice with my D1 criteria, anyhow.

Way I see it, we have a sand house, a hot air balloon tightrope walker, a bridge with a carriage going by a fisherman, and a ship... flying over the desert? Whatever's going on, there's camels in the background.
Up to 3 of these can be from our 2+ (now 3+ but I don't think Rogan had any say) town (or town-lite) friends in the afterlife. The other would come from whichever of Elenna / Batcathat / Grand Arbiter is feeling wolfy.
We have four ghosts, and four pictures. If it's one per ghost, then I think we can trust MORE of these to be town-friendly than not.
So in other words, we're looking for common themes.

I'll also put in an analysis of what each picture means on its own.

Sand House Floating off into the Wind: this is a symbol of impermanence. Something that doesn't last long. Something like a 3SecondCultist. Themes in common with other pictures: Sky (full of bicycles), sea (sand suggests beach), sand (the house is sand), and vehicles (bicycle).
Tightrope walking between hot air balloons: This is a very bad idea. Almost the kind Xihirli would come up with, or the kind AvatarVecna would pull off. Themes in common with the others: Sky (it's in the sky), vehicles (hot air balloons), animals (a seagull), humans (passengers in the hot air balloon).
Fishing next to a bridge: Look at all the thematic richness. The fishing pole gives us thought to a poorer village. Look, the fisher can't even afford a good stick, this one's been repaired! Over on the bridge we've got a dapper scene: a man in a top head driving a carriage. Look closer, and there's no passenger. And the carriage is being pulled by a cloud horse. Best guess? Fishing means Kraken. Themes in common with the others: animals (cloud horse), sky (cloud horse), sea/body of water (fisher), vehicles (carriage), people (driver, fisher probably).
Then we have the spirit of adventure. As lion and woman ride a flying boat over the desert with the people below showing that they would like to get on the boat by holding up all the boat merchandise they own.
Boy, the desert really puts the BLAZE in Snowblaze, huh? Themes in common with the others: Animals (lion, camel), sand (desert), vehicles (flying boat), people (BoatCon members down below, woman on the ship). There is a sky, but nothing seems to be happening there.

Hmm... one of these things is not like the others... one of these things just doesn't belong. Can you tell me which thing is not like the others... before I finish my song.

I think the key here is to remove one of the pictures and see what three of them together say. The main issue is we DON'T KNOW WHICH PICTURE.
So I think in my next post I'll be looking at every possible combination of 3 pictures.

[Let'sGetKraken]

A whole lot to respond to here!

Not really seeing how you get from "vehicles" to "flat_footed", Kraken. Please explain.

Footed -> transportation, movement, three of which the visions reference strongly. I don't have much knowledge about your collective behaviour, so I'm predominantly going off how visions relate to usernames for my interpretations.

Someone mentioned Mysterium being a real thing... Do the cards have specific meaning in the game? Like is this an "additional research may help" thing?

They do not. It's a similar premise except cooperative, with one ghost trying to indicate which of a set of muderers/locations/murder weapons corresponds to each player based on giving them these visions. I would actually highly recommend, it's a ton of fun.

Important to remember is that the ghosts and maf are likely picking from a pool of visions (in Mysterium, the ghost picks visions from a pool of 7 at a time) - can we get a GM confirmation on how many visions each side gets to pick from? That would very much help in determining whether common themes like fields or water are incidental or intentional.

The only possible wolf on the Xihirli wagon is Kraken fmpov

This was more "if I have to vote day one in the absence of information, I'm going to pick the wagon that at least has some rationale to it instead of the one that seems totally random".

The whole "Two fields" argument is kinda amusing because if you consider from our recently departed townfolk and his ghostly friend's point of view, do you really think that vague fields that don't even properly look like farmed fields is what would be the correct line to lead us to farmerbink?

I do think that it's tenuous, but keep in mind that they likely don't exactly have a wealth of visions to choose from and have to work with what they have. I'm keeping my vote where it is for now, given my rationale above.

3SC, why did you want to mess with specifically Kraken instead of anyone else?

We're friends IRL and have played together before. He's the one who made me aware this was happening.

I think the key here is to remove one of the pictures and see what three of them together say. The main issue is we DON'T KNOW WHICH PICTURE.

This is my rationale for flat_footed, but keep in mind that this only tells us what one side might be trying to indicate - since either town or wolves could have sent three visions. Though I'm more and more convinced that Xihirli is town.


@Snowblaze, what does NAI/AI mean, for the newbies here?

[gac3]

Still reading Kraken's post but I believe the pool is 6 and they pick up to 3. I could be wrong though.

- - - Updated - - -

Also I think NAI means Not Alignment Indicative... But when I asked, I'm pretty sure nobody confirmed or denied.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm in a weird position of half agreeing with this and half wolfreading it.

gac/Kraken not w/w, at least.

Also:
Farmerbink 2: flat_footed, Snowblaze
Snowblaze 1: bladescape
Apogee1 1: gac3
flat_footed 1: Let'sGetKraken
Posted without voting: AvatarVecna
No posts: Farmerbink, Xihirli, 3SecondCultist, Apogee1

Take it whichever way you want. That said I'm really torn on this whole name connection thing. I'm currently banking on Xi to put together any real clues from the visions after that last post. The best I have is "similar to names" but that can't be the only basis because some of us have bad names for that to be the premise of a system. I'm going to probably mostly stick to trying to solve this the old school way.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Oh. They might know who the wolves are? That would make sense.

Going to step in and confirm: All dead players, regardless of alignment, are given the names of the Wolves.

- - - Updated - - -

Up to 3 of these can be from our 2+ (now 3+ but I don't think Rogan had any say) town (or town-lite) friends in the afterlife. The other would come from whichever of Elenna / Batcathat / Grand Arbiter is feeling wolfy.
We have four ghosts, and four pictures. If it's one per ghost, then I think we can trust MORE of these to be town-friendly than not.

Clarification - No matter how many Town ghosts there are, as a collective they can agree on 0-3 visions to send. Same math for the Mafia ghosts.

So when the Visions were discussed and sent, Book Wombat and one of Bat/Elenna talked about what (and how many) visions they should send to help town, and Elenna/Bat was alone in deciding what (and how many) visions to send to help Town. Rogan died at the end of the night and is joining Book+Bat/Elenna.

It could be 3 from one side, 1 from another. Could be 2 each. But it doesn't directly correlate to the number of dead players.

Grand Arbiter decided to stay neutral and so isn't giving input to either side but is chilling in chat with us.

- - - Updated - - -

Important to remember is that the ghosts and maf are likely picking from a pool of visions (in Mysterium, the ghost picks visions from a pool of 7 at a time) - can we get a GM confirmation on how many visions each side gets to pick from? That would very much help in determining whether common themes like fields or water are incidental or intentional.

Neither side can pick literally any image from the game.

Town was given a pool of 7 images to pick from, choosing up to 3 to send to y'all. Now that they have done that, I will replace any cards they sent to you with new cards to make a hand of 7. A few times during the game, they may choose to discard any number of images from their hand and redraw up to 7.

Mafia gets a 7 card hand, chooses up to 3 to send, redraws up to 7, gets the same discard option the same number of times per game.

If an image is in the hand of one side as an option to send, it will not be offered to the other side.

[Xihirli]

Part of that makes me suspect that town got a hand of only one good card, while Mafia will almost always have a hand of at least 3 good cards since they're trying to obfuscate, and make the signal-to-noise ratio worse.
So it might be more that the one of these things that is not like the others is the one we DO want to follow.

[Farmerbink]

Finally, several hours later, the man shambles in. Somewhat better-sheveled, for having slept, he nonetheless is actively rubbing the overnight crust from the creases of his eyes. "Hells, somebody else died?" he groans, looking down thoughtfully at the sheet-covered form. "Well that's no good." He frowns deeply before stepping around him with a subtle, respectful gesture of farewell.

"Rogan, was it? I suppose that doesn't tell us overmuch. Obviously the killers were out and about last night, but we already suspected as much." He looks around the room slowly, hesitating only briefly on a few faces before realizing that several are looking aggressively at him.

"Might sound a bit odd, but I generally trust Flat_Footed and Snowblaze. Simply put, I don't know anything, and that makes me a poor choice for the killers to want to off during the day. I'm not gonna contribute to that effort, for reasons I suspect are obvious, but I don't have much to contrib- oh, what's this?" His rambling thoughts finally lead the images into his field of view, and he eagerly approaches the table.

"This... these are portents from beyond?!" he gapes. Like an eager child with a new toy, he rifles through the images. Almost immediately, the excitement fades. "I... I don't know exactly what he expected, but this is all Greek to me," he mumbles.

"I see... vehicles.... Acrobats and tradesmen. Fishermen and oars, over fields and houses of sand- oh, and sandbags?? That's a theme. Horses and Camels, ropes throughout? Wheels in the sky, and wheels on the bridge...

Vehicles
Ropes
Sand
Animals
Water

These are the themes I see...." He ponders for some time, utterly unconcerned for the fingers literally and figuratively directed at him. "In the interest of putting it out there, I think the spirits from beyond want you dead, Let'sGetKraken"

Spoiler: OOC "crunch"/TL;DR

Show

So... that is not as concerning as I thought, I don't really believe my arguments that any of this is actively wolfy.

Eh. Keeping my vote there until I come up with a better idea or until he shows up and does towny stuff.

Soooo I did a bad thing, and paid little attention to the timing on this game. I'm visiting family, and don't really expect to be paying hard attention throughout the day. In all seriousness, I won't feel horribly bad if I get offed. I hate to "waste" it, but I may be a waste to the town alive, anyway. And further, I have increasingly less positive input without knowing how these details work (3 images each? 3/1? 2/2? Each ghost gets one?) :-\ Edit: Those details hit ninja'ed, but don't really offer any clarity. *shrugs*

To that end, what "crunch" I've begun framing:

I like the five themes mentioned. Each one seems to well incorporate 2 (and decently well a 3rd) images. Without knowing more about the specific breakdown, I think that's as good a start as any. For reiteration: Vehicles Ropes, Sand, Animals, Water are all decent themes. We could get more specific, but I'm already having trouble connecting them to any names, except *maybe* water -> Kraken (and animal -> Kraken?). Vehicles and wheels have something of an inverse connotation with Flat_Footed, but the inverse connotations are nearly always accidental in actual Mysterium.

edit again:

Part of that makes me suspect that town got a hand of only one good card, while Mafia will almost always have a hand of at least 3 good cards since they're trying to obfuscate, and make the signal-to-noise ratio worse.
So it might be more that the one of these things that is not like the others is the one we DO want to follow.

That is *TOTALLY BELIEVABLE* I know as wolf I would want to make as much noise as possible, though that immediately creates a radically new meta to try to track O_o.

Hrmph.

Given that new development, I'm going to vote Apogee in a simple effort to keep people from being silent wolves.

Apogee

[Snowblaze]

Since your Kraken read is "nearly wolfy... But new so maybe not" it might be worth mentioning again, if any of the clues are suppose to hint towards names, Kraken is both the most obvious person to point out and matches multiple pictures if you assume "general water theme". So... Probably worth FOS due to that, at least as much as farmerbrink does for the fields.

Actually let's talk about this properly.

The actual point is more or less valid. It's the way they made it I have a problem with. If they'd asked me why I didn't take the visions as a possible link to Kraken into account, or wolfread me for not taking them into account... that would have been good.

Just saying "hey, you kind of wolfread this person, I think you should take into account another reason to wolfread them" like they've done, though... that feels agenda-y.

gac, who are the wolves?

- - - Updated - - -

Slightly concerned by how easily Farmerbink is townreading me after last game, but overall I do like that post.

I need to ISO gac.

(Yes, NAI is Not Alignment Indicative, ie tells me nothing about whether the player is a wolf or not.)

- - - Updated - - -

Skimmed through, can't be bothered to write up a proper ISO but there's a few things that give me gut pings so...

Anyone want to vote gac3 with me?

[3SecondCultist]

Spoiler: Let'sGetKraken ISO

Show

Fairly standard for a newbie. I don't remember seeing a new wolf doing this but also I can't remember the last time I saw a new wolf full stop. Slightest of town points?


I could argue going along with Rogan's not-particularly-strong Xihirli case is wolfy; less strong an argument given newness. Paranoia is NAI.


NAI.

I disagree with this method of vision interpretation but also don't think it's particularly AI.


"I should definitely be a suspect" gives me a mild gut ping.

Don't get the flat thing, so slight wolf points for that pending an explanation.

Eh. If this were a more experienced player I'd be wolfreading it quite a bit. Since he's not... a little below null? Confidence low to non-existent.

Basically all my reads feel like squeezing blood out of a stone.

I'm getting a wolf read for Kraken as well, largely from the visions portrayed so far and because he oversold the whole 'conflicted over whether I'm wolf' thing from D1. It's precisely the play he would make if he was really wolf and wanted to play off of my ego.

As to your point about him not being 'an experienced player'. Kraken loves Mafia games. He's a seasoned Among Us player, he's played Werewolf, and he lives for these types of bluffs. I would not let the fact that he is new to this game, in particular, deter you from getting the same wolf vibes that I absolutely have right now.

3SC, why did you want to mess with specifically Kraken instead of anyone else?

Because I know him IRL and we were also hanging out IRL for all of D1. I wanted to see whether he would lean in to my self-voting joke, and how far he would lean. Alone, his reactions were not suspicious. He played it up a bit, which only meant that he was uncertain at the time as to whether or not I'm town. But when taken with the visions - which I think point to him more than anyone else - I get wolfy feelings.

LetsGetKraken has my vote.

[Let'sGetKraken]

I'm getting a wolf read for Kraken as well, largely from the visions portrayed so far and because he oversold the whole 'conflicted over whether I'm wolf' thing from D1. It's precisely the play he would make if he was really wolf and wanted to play off of my ego.

As to your point about him not being 'an experienced player'. Kraken loves Mafia games. He's a seasoned Among Us player, he's played Werewolf, and he lives for these types of bluffs. I would not let the fact that he is new to this game, in particular, deter you from getting the same wolf vibes that I absolutely have right now.

Because I know him IRL and we were also hanging out IRL for all of D1. I wanted to see whether he would lean in to my self-voting joke, and how far he would lean. Alone, his reactions were not suspicious. He played it up a bit, which only meant that he was uncertain at the time as to whether or not I'm town. But when taken with the visions - which I think point to him more than anyone else - I get wolfy feelings.

LetsGetKraken has my vote.

Emphasis mine.

My response to this is that I am perhaps the easiest person for the wolves to frame using visions, given (as I've mentioned) how many of the Mysterium cards have water on them and how clearly that connects to my username. All it takes is a single water-themed card - which seems to be the case here - and I'm implicated.

I don't think 3SecondCultist is a wolf for this, but I do think he's taking the bait.

Sticking with flat_footed - Bink may say that inverse connotations are rare in Mysterium (which is true), but this isn't Mysterium - deadtown is working to hit a much smaller target here and they have to work with what they've given.

[3SecondCultist]

My response to this is that I am perhaps the easiest person for the wolves to frame using visions, given (as I've mentioned) how many of the Mysterium cards have water on them and how clearly that connects to my username. All it takes is a single water-themed card - which seems to be the case here - and I'm implicated.

To be clear, I am not just reading the water signs. I am specifically looking at the suspiciously tentacle-like clouds in the first picture, on top of the water pictures.

Do I think it’s possible that I am being deceived by the wolves? Absolutely. Do I think it’s more likely than there being multiple pictures pointing to one person? Not necessarily.

[Snowblaze]

Do either of you have thoughts on the gac post I pointed out?

Apogee1 2: gac3, Farmerbink
Snowblaze 1: bladescape
Let'sGetKraken 1: 3SecondCultist
gac3 1: Snowblaze
Farmerbink 1: flat_footed
flat_footed 1: Let'sGetKraken
Posted without voting: AvatarVecna, Xihirli
No posts: Apogee1

Not really much consensus. Yes, I know I just switched off a wagon and am hence a hypocrite.

[Xihirli]

gac3 and Kraken seem like good wagons to advance to me.

[gac3]

Actually let's talk about this properly.

The actual point is more or less valid. It's the way they made it I have a problem with. If they'd asked me why I didn't take the visions as a possible link to Kraken into account, or wolfread me for not taking them into account... that would have been good.

Just saying "hey, you kind of wolfread this person, I think you should take into account another reason to wolfread them" like they've done, though... that feels agenda-y.

gac, who are the wolves?

- - - Updated - - -

Slightly concerned by how easily Farmerbink is townreading me after last game, but overall I do like that post.

I need to ISO gac.

(Yes, NAI is Not Alignment Indicative, ie tells me nothing about whether the player is a wolf or not.)

- - - Updated - - -

Skimmed through, can't be bothered to write up a proper ISO but there's a few things that give me gut pings so...

Anyone want to vote gac3 with me?

Let's see. If I had to guess right now?

Then vision based: maybe
Let'sgetKraken
Or Farmerbrink

Definitely not Xi.

Beyond that:
AV is harder for me to read than Xi.
Snowblaze is probably town tbh.
I don't feel I have much on 3second, Apogee, or flat.
And blade... Idk. Slight town lean.

So (how many wolves are there? 3? 4? I'm not going to bother with the math.
I'd say wolves are most likely in
Kraken
Farmer
Apogee
Flat
3sexond cultist

[Let'sGetKraken]

Do either of you have thoughts on the gac post I pointed out?

I mean, now it looks more like self-preservation but I went back and I do see your point - Gac does read more sus. They started the wagon on Book D1, and it feels like they've largely be bandwagoning/hedging their bets since then. Seems like they might also be hiding a little behind feigned lack of rules understanding, though without knowledge of them as a player it's hard to tell.

Changing my vote to Gac3.

Feels like Xihirli is town, or exceptionally bold with the T1 self-vote. I still think the visions are pointing towards flat_footed but those aren't super reliable this early on, Cultist.

[gac3]

I mean, now it looks more like self-preservation but I went back and I do see your point - Gac does read more sus. They started the wagon on Book D1, and it feels like they've largely be bandwagoning/hedging their bets since then. Seems like they might also be hiding a little behind feigned lack of rules understanding, though without knowledge of them as a player it's hard to tell.

Changing my vote to Gac3.

If it helps I'm pretty sure people used to be still have trouble telling. Snow frequently refers to me as "doing normal weird gac stuff" which I really don't get but oh well.

[Xihirli]

Feels like Xihirli is town, or exceptionally bold with the T1 self-vote.

It’s definitely one of those!

[Farmerbink]

Just kind of confused over Apogee's continued silence.

[3SecondCultist]

Just kind of confused over Apogee's continued silence.

I agree. If he is a silent wolf, that is not great. If he is town and just inactive, that’s worse.

[Apogee1]

I'm around, kind of, for a little bit.

Ended up positively swamped in meetings during the day and busier with family during the night.

I spend a few minutes just now looking at the messages from beyond, nothing really jumped out as an obvious connection.

On that note with what Cao confirmed about 0-3 messages per side I don't think I'll say what an obvious connection might look like until one emerges.

[gac3]

Wait... The one with the ship doesn't actually have water... That night poke a hole in my half cocked Kraken theory... Though ship is still water so good enough for now.