How to hide being a spellcaster

[Crake]

Is there a reason why "don't cast spells" isn't a solution? This is supposed to be a diplomatic mission after all.

[mehs]

Some of them are very proactive in their hatred of magic.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Some of them are very proactive in their hatred of magic.

Unless magic is vanishingly rare naturally, being hostile towards spellcasters is a very poor survival strategy. It's also a good way to get your government forcibly appropriated and your citizens' minds stolen away from them.

[ericgrau]

If it's all diplomacy and no combat just gear up appropriately. But I know surprises always happen, especially those involving conflict. You might try something reasonable with low spell failure like leather or mithril shirts if that's not too close to magic. Or better yet pretend to be non-combatants without armor if you can. Depends how much the city knows about you.

Dealing with combat without outing yourself is the trickier part. Especially since most spells have a verbal component, and verbal components must be spoken in a strong voice. Those without in the PHB are glibness, gaseous form, hide from animals and mislead. Not much of a list. Other books might have more. Or get a rod of silent spell like the other poster suggested. You can use all day buffs too if nobody hears you in the morning, but they aren't particularly powerful since they get their power mainly from being able to be used at the same time as regular spells.

Unless magic is vanishingly rare naturally, being hostile towards spellcasters is a very poor survival strategy. It's also a good way to get your government forcibly appropriated and your citizens' minds stolen away from them.

How do you know one isn't secretly pulling the strings already and doesn't like competition? But seriously this assumes a lot of things, including that the country is valuable enough in size or strategic value to a powerful wizard. And magic doesn't need to be rare, only high level magic needs to be rare which is typical of many worlds. So the handful of those who can dominate could have better things to do. Besides it being non-trivial to get someone alone in case he passes his save on the first try and feels a hostile mental force. Or whatever the plan is. And the possibility of another foreigner intervening eventually. Or being discovered eventually. For example it's not a super difficult sense motive if anyone converses with the dominated one in person. So it probably could be done with a bit of work, but that work might be better spent elsewhere.

[bekeleven]

Goofus spends 2D6 years learning how to be a wizard.

Galliant spends 1D4 years learning how to be a barbarian and then 1 week becoming a wizard.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

How do you know one isn't secretly pulling the strings already and doesn't like competition?

A valid response. Probably the only one, really. Although being that belligerent will only assure that competition comes knocking, so it's not a great idea if you want to remain undetected.

But seriously this assumes a lot of things, including that the country is valuable enough in size or strategic value to a powerful wizard. And magic doesn't need to be rare, only high level magic needs to be rare which is typical of many worlds. So the handful of those who can dominate could have better things to do. Besides it being non-trivial to get someone alone in case he passes his save on the first try and feels a hostile mental force. Or whatever the plan is. And the possibility of another foreigner intervening eventually. Or being discovered eventually. For example it's not a super difficult sense motive if anyone converses with the dominated one in person. So it probably could be done with a bit of work, but that work might be better spent elsewhere.

You piss off a wizard enough, he (or she) will likely retaliate, one way or another, and the strategic viability of your little sewer country won't matter a whit. Neutral and Evil ones will crush you for vengeance (and the sheer joy of sadism for the latter), whereas a Good one will do so for everyone else's good. Attacking beings with magic due to ignorance (and, it must be said, overwhelming stupidity, because magic) is just asking for eventually biting off more than you can chew.

Any creature with the right spells, [Sp]s, or [Su]s (or powers or [Ps]s) and feats can do some seriously nasty things on a relatively large scale, even at low levels. A level 1 wizard or sorcerer with Fell Drain could start a wightocalypse without any problems at all, as an example.

[Jay R]

I have a gnome illusionist who doesn't advertise the fact that he is a wizard, until combat starts. He wears traveling clothes, not a robe, and he carries a gnome hooked hammer. [It's not a weapon; it's his ancestral relic, which is a staff.] He is well aware that people attacking a party should start by taking out the casters, so he doesn't want to be identified as one during a surprise round.

Besides, he's an illusionist. Misleading people is his stock in trade.

[Seward]

1. Don't wear a spell component pouch. Choose spells that don't use components/foci or figure out a way to have them accessible but not obvious (eg, for silent image wear a fleece scarf).

2. Likewise don't leave a spellbook or divine focus lying around, or visible. Extradimnsional spaces are your friend. Ensure you are in a privat place before preparing spells or refilling spell slots.

3. Keep your familiar under wraps, or in the environment pretending to be a local animal if that's possible based on what that familiar is and where you are. Folks with a Rat familiar will have an easier time with this than those with a hell hound familiar.

4. If magical detection is common, think hard about routinely casting those long running buffs. If uncommon, some of 1-3 can be covered up with a hat of disguise or similar magic if you don't let people touch you casually.

5. Disguise yourself when doing magic. Note that Alter Self-Human is a thing (be a different human, you get a generic form) or for whatever other race you might be or want to imitate. Again, springing 1800gp for a hat of disguise can be helpful when doing obvious magic where it isn't allowed. Just try not to get captured doing it. For extra bonus points, if your cha/disguise ranks are up to it, disguise yourself as somebody you dislike when doing that spellcasting in public. Invisibility is less helpful than you'd think unless it is improved invisible. A darkness field lasts a long time and in some environments is a fairly cheap way to hide while casting (eg outdoors at night, or in the shade of a dark alley)

6. Command word items (wands/staves or permanent magic items) can be helpful since the command word can't betray your intent to spellcraft, and they require no somatic components to conceal either. SLA/SU abilities are also helpful, and magic items with mental or similar activation are obviously extra useful in this environment.

7. If you must cast a spell, consider the silent and/or still metamagic, slight of hand to conceal casting and/or related skill tricks. You can do an awful lot just by stepping into an alleyway or a closet or similar to cast the spell, just know your hearing check modifiers to estimate how far away you need to be.

[ericgrau]

Another way to deal with spellcasting and fights is to insure no witnesses survive. Which works if the enemies are purely evil, but tricky for most crimes if the city has any kind of trial system. They may want criminals captured alive especially if lethal force is not necessary for self defense or if they surrender. At minimum you need a good excuse (if your actions are justified), at worst it brings your alignment into question (if your actions are not justified). Many D&D fights risk death so you may have a good excuse both for the guard and for your morals. Even if you could subdue the foe with magic but couldn't subdue him without magic it may be reasonable to either kill or kidnap the criminal under the circumstances. Or vehemently deny his allegations of magic as a "flimsy defense" for his wrongdoing and cover up the evidence.

If the party can run away at the very beginning of a fight and draw foes to a location without other witnesses then that can be helpful too.

Any creature with the right spells, [Sp]s, or [Su]s (or powers or [Ps]s) and feats can do some seriously nasty things on a relatively large scale, even at low levels. A level 1 wizard or sorcerer with Fell Drain could start a wightocalypse without any problems at all, as an example.

I don't think the DM will allow a wightocalypse or any such system exploit in the OP's campaign world nor will 99% of DMs.

[Mechalich]

I don't think the DM will allow a wightocalypse or any such system exploit in the OP's campaign world nor will 99% of DMs.

In a city without any magic the wightocalypse isn't a system exploit, it's the act of a bored evil 14th level cleric, shaman, or wizard (ie. a class with Create Undead) with a free afternoon.

Sure, eventually the priests of the good deities will roll in and blast the thousands of wights into oblivion with ease, but the city will still be dead.

[zlefin]

Some of them are very proactive in their hatred of magic.

that ignores the basic question though: why are magic users being sent on a DIPLOMATIC mission to a place that hates magic users? Just send non-magic users; anything else really makes no sense from a political perspective.

[Jack_Simth]

that ignores the basic question though: why are magic users being sent on a DIPLOMATIC mission to a place that hates magic users? Just send non-magic users; anything else really makes no sense from a political perspective.

Lots of ways for it to make sense.
The magic nation wants an excuse for a war (because they have allies that will have issues with the real reason for the war, and they need the allies). Murdered diplomats work for that.
They're trying to show that magic can be useful.
They just don't trust their non magic users for the task.
They want to add a layer of complications to subborning the diplomats.

[Wintermoot]

that ignores the basic question though: why are magic users being sent on a DIPLOMATIC mission to a place that hates magic users? Just send non-magic users; anything else really makes no sense from a political perspective.

Because they are the PCs and the PCs are the main actors in every story being told as part of the game.

What you are really saying is that the DM is making a poor story decision given the nature of the characters. I don't agree. The role of the GM is to provide conflict and issues for the PCs to overcome. This is just one more type of conflict and issue.

If you need an in story reason, then the PCs are the most trusted envoys that kingdom B has to send to kingdom A and the ones deemed most likely to succeed. They don't have in infinite store shelf of other options to cherry pick from to build their diplomatic mission.

[mehs]

The people sending us on the mission were some Treants angry about the anti magic town clearcutting the forest. They don't really care about politics or practicality. They slapped us with a homebrew variant geas.

[Jack_Simth]

The people sending us on the mission were some Treants angry about the anti magic town clearcutting the forest. They don't really care about politics or practicality. They slapped us with a homebrew variant geas.

That makes the diplomatic credentials angle a bit harder.

However: It's going to be really hard to represent the treants' interests when you aren't one of them. They probably just gave you a goal, and I am guessing nothing to negotiate with?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Dispel the geas and burn down the forest to punish them?

[Jack_Simth]

Dispel the geas and burn down the forest to punish them?

Reasonable odds it's a plot-level geas.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Reasonable odds it's a plot-level geas.

If it's DM fiat, do what you have to, and then burn down the forest.

[Crake]

A valid response. Probably the only one, really. Although being that belligerent will only assure that competition comes knocking, so it's not a great idea if you want to remain undetected.

You piss off a wizard enough, he (or she) will likely retaliate, one way or another, and the strategic viability of your little sewer country won't matter a whit. Neutral and Evil ones will crush you for vengeance (and the sheer joy of sadism for the latter), whereas a Good one will do so for everyone else's good. Attacking beings with magic due to ignorance (and, it must be said, overwhelming stupidity, because magic) is just asking for eventually biting off more than you can chew.

Any creature with the right spells, [Sp]s, or [Su]s (or powers or [Ps]s) and feats can do some seriously nasty things on a relatively large scale, even at low levels. A level 1 wizard or sorcerer with Fell Drain could start a wightocalypse without any problems at all, as an example.

I think you're projecting on all high level spellcasters a bit here. Why would a high level spellcaster who can cast powerful magic and provide himself with all the necessiities he could possibly desire with the flick of a wrist, even care about the problems of nations when he could go live in a fortress of solitude hidden deep within the mountains away from all that? What would a wizard have to gain from taking over a nation that isn't more trouble than it's worth when he could make mindless, perfectly obedient servitors to do whatever job he needs for himself? Seems like wizards in your mind are all needlessly tyrannical and malicious for no real reason.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think you're projecting on all high level spellcasters a bit here. Why would a high level spellcaster who can cast powerful magic and provide himself with all the necessiities he could possibly desire with the flick of a wrist, even care about the problems of nations when he could go live in a fortress of solitude hidden deep within the mountains away from all that? What would a wizard have to gain from taking over a nation that isn't more trouble than it's worth when he could make mindless, perfectly obedient servitors to do whatever job he needs for himself? Seems like wizards in your mind are all needlessly tyrannical and malicious for no real reason.

For a number of reasons. {Scrubbed} Can you imagine why someone might be just a little miffed with them? Because the reasons overlap. A lot.

[Jack_Simth]

I think you're projecting on all high level spellcasters a bit here. Why would a high level spellcaster who can cast powerful magic and provide himself with all the necessiities he could possibly desire with the flick of a wrist, even care about the problems of nations when he could go live in a fortress of solitude hidden deep within the mountains away from all that? What would a wizard have to gain from taking over a nation that isn't more trouble than it's worth when he could make mindless, perfectly obedient servitors to do whatever job he needs for himself? Seems like wizards in your mind are all needlessly tyrannical and malicious for no real reason.

Keep in mind:
They don't all need to be that way for the effect to happen.

Suppose the nation ends up annoying a hundred different spellcasters.

Fifty aren't able to do anything about it (low level and wrong builds)
Thirty are, but really don't want to do the work, and just leave.
Nineteen try to do something, but aren't skilled at that sort of casting, and die.

The hundredth wants to do something about it, and is skilled at that sort of casting.

---

Plus, of course, retreating from the world means retreating from the world. You're not going to the market and talking with friends anymore. Lots of folks don't want to give that sort of thing up, no matter how rich/powerful they become. And if you do have friends, and one of them gets killed, why... you might want to do something about it!

[Alcore]

Keep in mind:
They don't all need to be that way for the effect to happen.

Suppose the nation ends up annoying a hundred different spellcasters.

Fifty aren't able to do anything about it (low level and wrong builds)
Thirty are, but really don't want to do the work, and just leave.
Nineteen try to do something, but aren't skilled at that sort of casting, and die.

The hundredth wants to do something about it, and is skilled at that sort of casting.

Thirty... just leave? Why were they there to begin with? To me it honestly sounds like there are no open casters which means no wizards from this land. That generally requires years of training and flat out dedication. Sorcerers and other naturals probably migrate out if they survive puberty.

I'm just touching on one line. The whole post seems nonsensical. Unless casters spontaneously generate in an anti-caster kingdom.

[Seward]

I've played in a number of environments with this sort of society. Some examples:

Worship a deity that isn't real, but you can't tell because its clerics don't do magic either. Miracles are sometimes done via UMD type methods. Have very very skilled mundane military however and fairly fanatical civilians. They live somewhere nobody else really wants to live and isn't worth the hassle of conquering, as you'd have to pretty much exterminate everybody to not have an insurgency. As they don't push their beliefs on neighbors, they are mostly ignored.

Worship a deity that is real but have decided all other deities are just "fiends/outsiders" and/or aspects of their deity, depending on the subdivision in the faith. Have heavy restrictions on magic not used by their clergy or specially licensed arcane casters (it is a lawful society). All arcane casters entering the domain must register, if not that is a serious crime. Any holy symbols not of their deity displayed or brandished is a crime, actually using such holy symbol for channeling or spellcasting is a larger crime. Trying to convert anybody to any other religion is a capital crime. Nonhumans get a little more slack if they follow deities not followed by humans, as their deity is a god of humans, not "lesser races" and "lesser races who foolishly worship outsiders aren't worth our time to conver". Any spellcasting in public not by an approved and official caster can be a minor crime, as it is considered to traumatize viewers (kind of a disturbing the peace crime) if somebody complains. Divine magic is riskier as it could be seen as advertising your deity if you get a grumpy magistrate. Property damage, injuries death by magic are mostly treated like any other crime of that sort, but it is like adding "no weapon permit" charge to an existing crime in our society. Ruling order has lots of magic. Underclasses/rebels/etc have a harder time operating with magic openly. An average citizen using magic not a member of the ruling faith is always under suspicion from neighbors (think "cunning woman" during the time of the inquisitions).

A dictatorial society ruled with an iron fist where nobody but the ruling class is allowed to use magic. Unlike the religious society above, this is purely secular control (lots of deities allowed for me, none for thee, ditto for arcane). Witch finders root out any casters at an early age and they are either killed or raised by the state to serve the state, with Detect Law being used on casters frequently to make sure they are still likely to obey their restrictions. (Bards need not apply. Not welcome, not tolerated. Ditto Barbarians in the military). If you are high status enough, noble class, you aren't under as tight control, but are still subject to "detect law" screenings.

Live in an area where magic isn't reliable and where there is a tech alternative. (this was due to a planar catastrophe of some kind causing two universes with different rules coexisting in a region). Neither magic nor tech are very reliable but the natives prefer tech because it has less-open-ended catastrophe potential (including the disaster that caused the region, makes magic pretty unpopular). It isn't organized to actually restrict magic, but it is a pretty big social handicap to be known as a spellcaster.

Live in a region conquered by an chaotic evil deity who uses competition and treachery as approved and expected methods to hold and retain power. Anyone who might be a threat to anybody with power in this region will tend to be either recruited or subject to vigilante action (complete with wanted posters and bounties). A high level martial (if gear isn't too obvious) is less likely to get noticed than somebody using magic at any level. Monks and druids in domestic animal wild shape form do better than paladins with holy symbols all over their fullplate or wizards using phantom steeds or overland flight to get around. I do remember one case where our party screwed up so badly that the GM decided our bounties for our heads would actually go down, as we had seemed so incompetent they'd rather have us loose than dead or captured. Usually though the posters and rewards get more frequent and common as PC's spend time there due to how they normally behave. This is a region where multiple identities/disguise/etc pays big dividends, as is disposing of witnesses in a way that they can't talk with "speak with dead" or, if you are really hated, prevented from being raised.

Visiting any of these lands as a foreign spellcaster is problematic.

[Jack_Simth]

Thirty... just leave? Why were they there to begin with? To me it honestly sounds like there are no open casters which means no wizards from this land. That generally requires years of training and flat out dedication. Sorcerers and other naturals probably migrate out if they survive puberty.

I'm just touching on one line. The whole post seems nonsensical. Unless casters spontaneously generate in an anti-caster kingdom.

"Ends up annoying"
Doesn't necessarily mean they have to be from there.
Perhaps there's a gemstone merchant in the kingdom that's selling for slightly less than those elsewhere. Wizard drops in to purchase, gets annoyed by the place while making his purchase.
Wizard in a neighboring kingdom is tasked with dealing with the various sorts of folks fleeing this non-magical kingdom. Gets annoyed with them, but can't find fault with the refugees. Finds out they don't have any magic of their own, and decides it's more efficient to stop the kingdom than help the individual refugees from it.
Wizard living near the border keeps getting visitors he doesn't like from the place.

And so on.

Also, I said casters, not wizards. So yes, Sorcerers, Clerics, and Druids included.

[Fizban]

The people sending us on the mission were some Treants angry about the anti magic town clearcutting the forest. They don't really care about politics or practicality. They slapped us with a homebrew variant geas.

There's the relevant information. This is not a "diplomatic mission," which would involve governments cooperating and diplomatic immunity etc, and the main threat would likely be a particular planned assassination attempt meant to force you to cast a bunch of destructive magic in public and cause a huge PR problem. In such a plot, hiding is actually impossible.

This is, "The DM's Treants have magically compelled us to go to a place where everyone wants to kill us." In this plot, hiding is more likely the intended solution.

Considering the number of times WotC (and possibly even Paizo in Dragon Mag) printed ever-more-effective "lol I have Bluff so you can't tell I'm a spellcaster" uses for the basic skill or Skill Tricks, I'm surprised no one's mentioned any such thing in Pathfinder, which makes it sound like all their stuff is behind feats. In that case you'll want to get your hands on some items that allow Silent spells, some spells that lack somatic components, etc. And/or go full ghost mode and try to do this "diplomacy" without ever being detected or within reach. Use some magic to get lol skill bonus and enter in disguise, evade a chase by teleporting into a back alley or bathroom stall where you change disguises, etc.

Really though, I find the whole idea tiresome. Either the DM has thought this all the way through and we simply lack the required information to understand that the plot is fine and you shouldn't be worrying, or they haven't and it's going to blow up in everyone's faces just as predictably as it sounds.

Reasonable odds it's a plot-level geas.

Yeah, "homebrew variant" sure sounds like it. Otherwise you'd just ignore the 3d6 damage and burn down the forest. Pulling aggro from an 11th+level Treant caster and all the rest in the process.

[Raven777]

In a city without any magic the wightocalypse isn't a system exploit, it's the act of a bored evil 14th level cleric, shaman, or wizard (ie. a class with Create Undead) with a free afternoon.

Sure, eventually the priests of the good deities will roll in and blast the thousands of wights into oblivion with ease, but the city will still be dead.

For a divine flavor of the same problem, Rahadoum's situation in Pathfinder's campaign setting in a nutshell.

Rahadoum's inhabitants after a bloody religious civil war: "We reject the Gods!"
Good and Neutral Gods: "Ok. We respect your decision."
Evil Gods: "It's free real estate!" /proceed to use Rahadoum as their collective playground where the grown ups won't scold them
Good and Neutral Gods: "You guys are sure you don't want us to intervene?"
Rahadoum's inhabitants while being drowned in locusts, plagues and firestorms: "No! Everything is fine!"

[ngilop]

Don' cast spells.


I mean that is how people know one is a spellcaster. Some dude chants funny words and wiggles his fingers and suddenly a fireball explodes.

So.. just don't do those things.


I feel the simplest and most efficient answer is the best.. But.. others are sure to have their own opinion. and while I disagree, I do believe they have that right.