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2022-08-05, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
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2022-08-05, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
If you’ve got an existing group you’re interested in applying this to, then this conversation is one best to have with them. Still, going into that conversation forearmed with knowledge and ideas is a good plan. So what can we tell you, specific to your situation?
Yes, Spelljammer seems a very appropriate setting for trying out rotating GMing.
What if your group is like, “we need to go back to location X (that was run by GM Y)”, when it isn’t their turn to run? What if they do so as a suggested solution to player Z’s game? How much will the metagame influence the game?
Does your group have experience with… hmmm… “not cookie cutter” parties? If the GM’s PC is sitting out, and everyone is GM, you need two of everything to have one of everything in every party. This may be a good time to have everyone run multiple PCs.
I guess a “watch rotation” could explain why you rotate who stays with the ship vs who “beams down” to explore the planet?
Discuss where you all stand on the spectrum of “WBL is a physical property of the universe” to “we’re fine running the party after they looted the Justice Lords”.
Discuss where you all stand on the related spectrum of “your actions have meaning and lasting effects” to “episodic play with anticipation of returning to baseline”.
Discuss where you all stand on the related spectrum of “long-term negative effects” vs “She turned me into a newt! … I got better”.
Discuss where you all stand on the related spectra of rate of leveling, and CaW vs CaS.
That is, if I’ve planned a “sporting” adventure for level 3 PCs, but, before it’s my turn to run, they’ve reached level 8, and have a dozen Space Viking bodyguard henchmen, is that a problem?
Had you gone with a pure “run club” format, I might have suggested “everyone runs a session, gain a level”.
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2022-08-05, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
This is an interesting conversation in and of itself.
So, sure, if everyone has GM’d, everyone has GM’d. Kinda a tautology, that.
However, while Bruce Wayne responded to the gun-related death of his parents by becoming a vigilante crime fighter who dresses up as a bat and refuses to use guns, Bruce Payne might well have responded to the same stimulus by dressing up as a rat, and using guns to fight crime.
The point being, the same stimulus can teach different people different lessons.
So it’s not the case that “everyone running” will put everyone on the same page, to remedy such problems. It gives them experience with other points of view, and gives them the background to use to form a vocabulary about such things. But if two neutral players run games, and become dead set on their respective, opposed positions (like CaS vs CaW, or illusionism vs honest), then everyone having run games could actually cause problems rather than solve them.
More insidiously, the belief that “everyone has run a game, therefore we’re on the same page” could reduce the impetus to use preventative tools (like “session 0”), potentially resulting in more and worse problems than a naive group that understands their naivety.
On the flip side, if everyone is experienced, no one is naïve, and you cannot elicit the naive response from the group. If you care.
Anyway, if such “table issues and misunderstandings” are a concern, sure, getting everyone experience GMing in their own one-shots can be advantageous. But I would recommend tools like “session 0” and “developing a shared vocabulary” and “cultivating table culture” to be more valuable for this purpose.
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2022-08-05, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
The first benefit is that it keeps everyyone at the table on the same level, no hierarchies.
The second benefit is that it does provide both reason and a safe environment for new GMs to take their first steps.
The third reason it that it helps a lot against GM burnout because everyone gets regular, long breaks.
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2022-08-05, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
I can't say I've ever had a problem with a table being too hierarchical, but I suppose it might help someone with that issue (assuming it's specifically based on the GM having more power than the players).
As for the other reasons, I agree that it can be good to change GMs on occasion, whether it's to give the current GM a break or give someone new a chance to try it. I don't think either depends on everyone regularly taking a turn though.Last edited by Batcathat; 2022-08-05 at 01:07 PM.
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2022-08-05, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
Sometimes I've been sick, or I've not been up for DMing that week 'cause burnout. I'll try and get someone to take my place for that week. They hate it.
My players at both tables either can't or wont DM, and when people who aren't me, DM, there appears to be a lot of complaints, and those DMs then refer back to me - even though I'm a player - on what I would do. "Can you do it like [Cheesegear] does it?" has been heard more than once.
I also have a direct quote; 'If you [me, Cheesegear] weren't our DM, we wouldn't play D&D.' from one of my tables.
Not everyone has the same creative output,
Not everyone has the same understanding of the rules,
Not everyone has the ability to multi-task and have the agile thinking that wrangling 4-6 players onto a task, requires.
Ultimately, the key is consistency, and when you have rotating DMs, the likelihood of your table not having consistency, goes up.
I am a Forever-DM. The only time I get to play a character is when they're a hostile. Which means I might only ever get one scene with them.
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2022-08-06, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
I've never done a rotating DM.
I homebrewed all of my world, and while I incorporate everything I can from my players (backstories, ideas they might have/like to see) - I am, still, admittedly a control freak.
So every Tuesday, I DM (every other week it's everyone, the following week is what we call "off week" where it's a different campaign and people are free to join and drop that one, because it's not the main one).
However, that said - one of my players, DM'ed after that, and ran Out of the Abyss, but that was on Thursday.
Another of my players, ran a smaller game, that was once a month (on some weekend day).
So not really rotating DMs - but my players DMing their own sessions with me in it as a player, on different days.
EDIT - To be clear, the Out of the Abyss, was just that. So not based in my campaign. And the monthly game, she had created her own homebrew world for her game. So none of the games take place in my homebrew campaign.Last edited by Tawmis; 2022-08-06 at 11:37 PM.
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2022-08-07, 03:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Location
- Netherlands
- Gender
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
Yes, and no.
Yes, we did rotate GM's, but in several ways.
First: Whoever felt like doing a campaign, did a campaign. Lasted ~1 year each. Worked fine, no inconsistencies, but DM burnout did happen, luckily you could just not opt to run a campaign to recover.
Second: I ran a megadungeon (Egyptian themed pyramid). I did the intro few sessions and called dibs on the last two floors, but there were 15 floors in between. Players could claim one and run it as they saw fit as long as they contained it to that level. This set-up worked amazing. Fun was had, I had plenty of sessions to just play, while the story as a whole remained intact. I can highly recommend this setup.
Third: We decided to create a joint world, where each player had a region and could make up as they would (under very general guidelines, such as "has dwarves"). We then took turns running mini-campaigns (4-6 sessions) in that world with the same characters. This was ok, but inconsistency was greater. For example, we agreed to be low magic, but at level 4 they met a salamander who gave one of the characters what amounts to a lightsaber (we were playing medieval fantasy). She was still underpowered, but come on. We had also instituted 'DM says = law' so we couldn't retcon it. Disgruntled, but we moved on. After multiple mini campaigns this world was kind of sided out.
Fourth: We did a joint DM plan. Me and my buddy were the DM's together. We would take turns leading sessions, with minor roles in roleplaying or combat tactics for the other DM. Worked great, because you could lean on the other DM and riff off of each other. Created great roleplay, but the co-DM for each session did feel a little less useful. Also less stress on one single DM because you can roll with what the other prepped.
We're currently taking a break, but I'm getting back in the DM saddle soon.
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2022-08-08, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Australia
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
Agreed. Flexibility means the person who turn it is to GM next failing to get their "schedule" together (whether because of life, or because they just aren't that committed) doesn't mean the group folds.
It also means the person who's been struck by inspiration and has a great game ready to go is free to do it. Whereas, by the time their turn comes around their enthusiasm may have waned
Also everyone GMs can be good to have some give in it I say as the member of the group with the most hours of work per week and a sole parent in a group of bachelors.
Some people are also temperamentally unsuited to GMing, Too shy, not able to think on their feet quickly enough, In a group of experienced players, you might want to give the newbie a while to get up to speed before you push
Also, within a campaign, I've played rotating GMs quite successfully. D&D and MechWarrior games where there's an element of turn taking with who runs the next adventure. The things to watch for here are
You need a level of communication about where adventures start and end and what treasure the party gets along the way. If the party has no flight, don't give them flight without checking with the next GM that flight won't wreck their planned adventure.
If the party's marooned on a desert island and you have and adventure to get them off it, say so. Then let anyone who wants to run desert island hijinks the chance to do so before you run your thing
Also, I've always wanted to run a troupe style game like Ars Magica where some or all of the players have "areas" they run stories for. So maybe one player runs the relations with the nearby Baron, another runs the fairy court and a 3rd runs a rival covenant. Another GM might run "everything else" or everything else could be shared more evenly
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2022-08-12, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Gender
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
By rotating GMs, does it mean having everyone involved run a separate game, or a shared campaign in which all the players take a turn at DMing the game? I have done both.
My core gaming group is fortunate to have four people who've been bitten by the DM bug for many years (and one more recently). We don't strictly rotate, with each running games as their enthusiasm and level of availability allows. Sometimes that means multiple games trading weekends, sometimes that means one person runs for a while as the only one.
However, one time I did also have a game with two other friends where we traded DMing back and forth for the same game. Whoever's turn it was would prepare a sort of mini-adventure and let their character take a little bit of a back seat when it came to decision-making for the group that session. It was a fairly combat-heavy game with simple stories so it wasn't difficult to trade back and forth.
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2022-08-13, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
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2022-08-15, 10:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Australia
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
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2022-08-16, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
Sort of; people are still people and in any social group that develops a pecking order.
This. IME this is how you make new DMs.
The third reason it that it helps a lot against GM burnout because everyone gets regular, long breaks.Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2022-08-19, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
- Location
- The Frozen North
- Gender
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
In one of my groups we had usually a main campaign and one shots. The main had the same GM but we would rotate one shots. One shots were mostly to give the main GM a break and we'd also run it if we were short on players for the main campaign. One shots is also great to test out new systems or just do something drastically different.
We had also a black ops campaign with rotating GMs. The campaign was mission based so each GM would run a mission.Optimizing vs Roleplay
If the worlds greatest optimizer makes a character and hands it to the worlds greatest roleplayer who roleplays the character. What will happen? Will the Universe implode?
Roleplaying vs Fun
If roleplaying is no fun then stop doing it. Unless of course you are roleplaying at gunpoint then you should roleplay like your life depended on it.
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2022-08-19, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
Kudos for bringing that up - “not everyone” / “not enough people” can make it, but we still want to get together / play a game is a *great* opportunity for one-shots, *and* is also a great opportunity for “forever GM” to get to play by mandating that someone else needs to be GM for such one-shots.
On a completely unrelated note, while results may vary by personality type, my experience is, Chaotic “who has something that they’d like to run?” produces more inspiration, more games available in a multi-GM party than Lawful “Thou must be ready to run thine game on the next session”. Also, such Chaotic-minded scheduling is more forgiving of “oh, the PCs got Flight / 20 vials of oil / a clue? That completely invalidates my adventure trapped by a cliff / vs a troll / in the Realms”, giving the would-be GM time to retool their idea, or shelve it and craft another.
(Ok, the Realms aren’t actually invalidated by having a clue, regardless of how clueless many of their characters are portrayed as. By being a Playground Determinator, maybe, but what setting isn’t?)
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2022-08-19, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Italy
- Gender
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
the problem with one-shot/short campaigns is that you can't build the same kind of emotional involvement with your character and the campaign world. that kind of deep connection is truly the most satisfying part of the game.
I am lucky to be in a group with 2 good dm, so we can run a long campaing each and stave off the worst of dm fatigue. we also have supporting players. so we never felt like the players were taking advantage of our dming to outsorce to us the hardest part, and we never had to force others to take a turn.
ultimately, my experience is that the group works better if the people who are good at being dm are dming; but that requires very good group dynamics, and can't be done in all groupsIn memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.
Ridiculous monsters you won't take seriously even as they disembowel you
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2022-08-20, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
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2022-08-20, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2022
- Location
- GitP, obviously
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Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
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2022-08-20, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
So… there are many possible answers here.
Yes, “continuity of cast and setting” is one possible answer (and feels very germane to this thread).
But one-shots also provide the freedom to *not* have that level of investment. It’s a great opportunity to find out whether you can play a character who is constantly cracking jokes, or (like Deadpool) constantly breaking the 4th wall, or a different gender, or just “not your normal class / build / role”. Or to learn firsthand why everyone hates Kender.
It’s also an opportunity to try new systems. Most groups aren’t clever and creative enough to make running the same PCs in D&D, WoD, CoC, Rifts, and Fate a thing, so getting caught up on one often excludes the other.
But, even if that long-term commitment is the ultimate goal? Why, just giving people the opportunity to run (and play in) these one-shots may build up the appropriate skills and hungers in people to make that happen.
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2022-08-20, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
Or one could start a proper campain that allows such commitment in the first place. Why the detour ?
I know that you regularly champion a couple of one shots for the group to get to know each other. But honestly ? I would sit out such an arrangement and only join after those arre done.
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2022-08-21, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
You realize you’ve given an answer to your own question, right? I’m not sure if you’re just playing devil’s advocate to give me the opportunity to expound on these details for the folks at home, or if you have a specific question you want answered, but I’ll do my best.
So, yes, obviously, this has the advantage of providing variety, of all the advantages of both one-shots and extended campaigns. Senility willing, maybe I’ll go into more detail on those advantages, perhaps inside a spoiler tag.
But, to answer your more pressing question with a question, why do people go on dates instead of jumping straight to the commitment of marriage? Why the detour?
Lastly (I’m practicing “brevity is the essence of clarity”, please rate the results ), I feel you may be missing out, sitting out on the party’s formative moments of those one-shots. Would you really be ok with joining an established group with a new PC? I mean, yes, but would you really consider that optimal over being there from the beginning? Then, same question, but for a new system: would you really prefer all the other players to have experience with the system, and knowing how to build the character that they envision and enjoy playing, while you will be running a comparative jalopy, like a poorly built 3e Fighter (“Toughness is where it’s at! Why would anyone take any other feat! And I’m going Dex-based, and high Int to cover low skill points!”) falling behind the Druid’s animal companion, let alone the CoDzilla? Because, if so, that seems an odd goal, but you do you.
Clear enough why I consider one-shots so valuable?Last edited by Quertus; 2022-08-21 at 08:23 AM.
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2022-08-22, 02:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
I don't see how i am missing "the party's formative moments", if it's a new party every session and we only create the real party after the one-shots are over. That is even more true when settings and even systems change as well.
And yes, i would have no problems joining an existing group with a new character. And if that group was starting a new campaign, it would seem like an ideal time to do so.
As for build failures and paople becoming unhappy with their characters. Stuff like that happens. Rarely. If it does, there is little problem either switching the character or, if it is the build only, to give it an overhaul. I really don't think it is worth at all to waste weeks upon weeks of precious session time only to get people more familiar with the system before the actual campaign starts.
Usually you don't have that many newbies anyway.
I wouldn't even want to have such training sessions if i was the one new to the system, as long as i was already committed to the campaign.
A one-shot for trying out a system if the majority of a groups wants to try out a system is acceptable though. But looking back, even that is more often done as a one-off with people only interested in this particular system and not necessarily planning to play in this constellation again.
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2022-08-22, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
Amen. The small group dynamics that has the most weight is the small group of players, not characters.
And yes, I would have no problems joining an existing group with a new character. And if that group was starting a new campaign, it would seem like an ideal time to do so.
... becoming unhappy with their characters. {snip} If it does, there is little problem either switching the character or, if it is the build only, to give it an overhaul.Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2022-09-11, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
I've been running a rotating GM group for about four years now. There is no obligation to GM, but most people end up wanting to at some point. Really our only standing rule is "no D&D or clones".
We seem to settle into shorter campaigns...6-9 months real time with one exception...and at the end of each campaign two or three guys will set the table with a couple options they'd like to GM. There is completely non-codified process that selects one based on social consensus based on what seems interesting as a setting, GM fatigue/desire, cool systems, and so on.
Then that GM runs it. Rinse and repeat.
I have to say, it works. If I had to say why, here would be my answers:
- Everyone is a bit older and has been gaming for a bit. There's no inherent virtue to age, but it does mean that we made our tragically bad player/gm social contract mistakes in the past.
-Pretty much everyone WANTS to GM something. Specifically a non-d&d something. They have some ideas in their head for a cool story, a system they always wanted to try, a setting that they really want to explore. So GMing is a great way to make it happen, not an unfortunate drudgery to pay for playing.
-The systems tend towards the more mechanically simple. Besides reducing prep and memorization costs, it also helps avoid having to account for an excess of wildly specific and granular player actions with all the social Friction that can cause.
And it's been a blast. A heist in the Mistborn setting. Imperial Guardsmen in Only War. A low fantasy series of swashbuckling adventures. Cthulu in the early days of humanity in space. A kingdom and army level game about a rebellion to overthrow a daemon emperor. Open ended, or with pre-assigned characters, long contuity to a series of thematixky linked one shots, pretty much the gamut.
But I would really stress "you HAVE to run" isn't the point. The point is "you want to run." I've yet to see a campaign end without multiple players immediately volunteering to run a different game.
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2022-09-11, 11:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Have you participated in rotating GMs?
technically yes.
We have what most groups would call a "Regular" GM (noting that some of our group's been playing together for nearly two decades now) who tends to run modules/paths/whatever in a longer form (and even then it's not always the same system. he ran Pathfinder 1 for a long time, then some Adventures in Middle Earth and broke things up with the Alien RPG and a MorkBorg one-shot), but after he's run an adventure/module or two someone will inevitably offer to run something. we just finished a Starfinder module and we've started a game of the Witcher RPG, both games were run by different players.
Once the Witcher game is done, Regular GM said he had a few games he'd picked up he'd like to try running.
There's no schedule, just "We've wrapped up the adventure and if GM wants to take a break and play as a PC, anyone here have an elevator pitch for something to play in the meanwhile?" and then we vote on the next game.