New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
    LibraryOgre's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Find Steed and Gear

    If your paladin's Steed (from Find Steed) disappears (through death or dismissal), does any gear it carries with it disappear with it? Does it collapse in a pile?
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
    *The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
    Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
    There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    HalflingWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    The United States
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Going by what I feel is simple logic, I’m pretty sure the closer-to-RAW answer is that the gear stays behind when the Steed is reduced to 0 or dismissed, though in the former case I don’t think there’s anything game-breaking if the DM rules the other way.

    For the latter, however, I can see some cheese in giving the Steed the MacGuffin the BBEG is pursuing the party after and then dismissing the Steed, especially in the case of a paladin who doesn’t normally use the Steed.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Gear that was given to it falls into a pile.

    If you summon it with a horse with a saddle (I'd assume the mount is summoned with appropriate saddle as a DM) then those also disappear when the mount does.
    Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2020

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    I've just had the gear fall off, which I think is RAW. The other way would be a pretty big dis-incentive to put any barding or gear of any sort on the mount... unless I suppose it re-appeared at the next casting.
    Full barding probably necessitates a bag of holding or something.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    So, Find Greater Steed, which was published 3 years later, explicitly leaves behind the equipment when the Steed disappears. From that fact, you can conclude one of two things:

    1- this applies only to Find Greater Steed; otherwise, designers would have errata'ed Find Steed
    2- this applies both to FS and to FGS; designers don't like erratas and avoid them unless necessary, but took the opportunity of publishing a new spell to clarify how they intend the spell to work.

    I think option 2 is correct, and that therefore anything the Steed is carrying or wearing stays behind.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Gear falling to the ground does seem to be RAW, but it makes the spell horribly inconvenient. How do you carry all of the equipment you'll put on the steed, when you don't have the steed? At a bare minimum, you'll probably need a saddle and associated harness, and that's already really awkward to stick in a backpack or something. And you'll probably want barding, too, which is nigh-on impossible.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2021

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    I actually had it happen to me in play once that my Steed was slain. My character (a Dexterity-focused paladin) ended up having to borrow a wheelbarrow to carry the barding and saddle until I had the time to cast Find Steed again, to the hilarity of the rest of the party.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Gear falling to the ground does seem to be RAW, but it makes the spell horribly inconvenient. How do you carry all of the equipment you'll put on the steed, when you don't have the steed? At a bare minimum, you'll probably need a saddle and associated harness, and that's already really awkward to stick in a backpack or something. And you'll probably want barding, too, which is nigh-on impossible.
    A bag of holding helps; that said, I agree with you that at least saddle and harness should be provided with the spell (and disappear if the Steed dies or is dismissed). Boarding I'm not so sure, though, and I definitely wouldn't like the shenanigans that would be opened with "the steed takes back to its native plane whatever objects they're carrying"

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Maybe let the steed take with it any attuned magic items it has on it? They are, after all, attuned to it. Alternatively, make a Common enchantment for barding and tack and harness that lets it be taken with the steed.

    I absolutely get not wanting to let familiars and conjured steeds serve as extradimensional storage, especially for MacGuffins, but I also think that generations of spellcasters would have come up with various solutions to enable at least things that are "part of their kit" to come and go with them.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2015

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Getting upgraded versions of the spells (or like a special focus or something) that summons your mount with saddle/barding could be a cool quest reward.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    strangebloke's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2012

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    So, Find Greater Steed, which was published 3 years later, explicitly leaves behind the equipment when the Steed disappears. From that fact, you can conclude one of two things:

    1- this applies only to Find Greater Steed; otherwise, designers would have errata'ed Find Steed
    2- this applies both to FS and to FGS; designers don't like erratas and avoid them unless necessary, but took the opportunity of publishing a new spell to clarify how they intend the spell to work.

    I think option 2 is correct, and that therefore anything the Steed is carrying or wearing stays behind.
    Agreed, 2 makes the most sense, and also avoids the whole "use the paladin's steed as a bag of holding" thing.
    Make Martials Cool Again.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Regarding the bag of holding:

    I'm not sure this would even contain the barding and saddle. Weight is not a problem but the dimensions might be.

    "This bag has an interior space considerably larger than its outside dimensions, roughly 2 feet in diameter at the mouth and 4 feet deep."

    Barding and a saddle is a lot of material to stuff into a 2x4 foot space. even harder if you already packed the bedding and other camping supplies from your starting gear in there.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by windgate View Post
    Regarding the bag of holding:

    I'm not sure this would even contain the barding and saddle. Weight is not a problem but the dimensions might be.

    "This bag has an interior space considerably larger than its outside dimensions, roughly 2 feet in diameter at the mouth and 4 feet deep."

    Barding and a saddle is a lot of material to stuff into a 2x4 foot space. even harder if you already packed the bedding and other camping supplies from your starting gear in there.
    The description is interesting because it states those dimensions which would be a little over 12 sq ft. But then it states the bag holds up to 500 pounds and 64 cubic feet which is much larger. I would rule you could keep barding in a bag of holding. A portable hole is 6' diameter circle and 10' deep which incidentally is a little over 90 sq. ft., only about 50% larger.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2015

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Delnatha View Post
    The description is interesting because it states those dimensions which would be a little over 12 sq ft. But then it states the bag holds up to 500 pounds and 64 cubic feet which is much larger. I would rule you could keep barding in a bag of holding. A portable hole is 6' diameter circle and 10' deep which incidentally is a little over 90 sq. ft., only about 50% larger.
    The diameter at the mouth isn't the same as the actual diameter of the interior space, I guess. You're limited on how wide something you can fit through the hole is, but inside it's got more than twice the diameter of the mouth.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    You could houserule that the steed brings what it's wearing with it, but not what it's carrying. That would let it keep the saddle and barding, but prevent it from securely stowing the Macguffin (unless, I suppose, the Macguffin is a saddle or something, but when was the last time you saw a saddle Macguffin?).
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2021

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    How do you carry all of the equipment you'll put on the steed, when you don't have the steed?
    Both yokes and travois can work (for certain values of work) within the 5E ruleset to help move unwieldly or heavy loads.
    Whatever else may be in their orders, a picket's ultimate responsibility is to die noisily.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Oh, and horseshoes. Those require specialized skills just to put on, skills that a PC may or may not have (i.e., not every skilled rider can shoe a horse).
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by P. G. Macer View Post
    Going by what I feel is simple logic, I’m pretty sure the closer-to-RAW answer is that the gear stays behind when the Steed is reduced to 0 or dismissed, though in the former case I don’t think there’s anything game-breaking if the DM rules the other way.

    For the latter, however, I can see some cheese in giving the Steed the MacGuffin the BBEG is pursuing the party after and then dismissing the Steed, especially in the case of a paladin who doesn’t normally use the Steed.
    Now, wouldn't that just be dandy, if the paladin died while MacGuffin was stored with the dismissed mount and there was no one able to raise them, AND both BBEG and the party need it to conclude their own goals. Such fun!
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2022-08-13 at 10:19 AM.
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


    D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
    3.0 since 2002
    3.5 since 2003
    4e since 2008
    Pathfinder 1e since 2008
    5e since 2014

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    So, Find Greater Steed, which was published 3 years later, explicitly leaves behind the equipment when the Steed disappears. From that fact, you can conclude one of two things:

    1- this applies only to Find Greater Steed; otherwise, designers would have errata'ed Find Steed
    2- this applies both to FS and to FGS; designers don't like erratas and avoid them unless necessary, but took the opportunity of publishing a new spell to clarify how they intend the spell to work.

    I think option 2 is correct, and that therefore anything the Steed is carrying or wearing stays behind.
    I'd agree with option 2 being the most likely RAI.

    That said, I'd allow the things the steed is wearing (i.e. barding, saddle) to go with it, but carrying (i.e. bags, people) to fall to the ground. If only because I think it's cooler for a paladin to summon their warsteed armoured and ready to go than have to summon it then spend an hour strapping barding down to it.
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Cyre Red IC | OOC

    Playing:
    OotA IC | OOC

    Master Homebrew Index (5e)

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Delnatha View Post
    The description is interesting because it states those dimensions which would be a little over 12 sq ft. But then it states the bag holds up to 500 pounds and 64 cubic feet which is much larger. I would rule you could keep barding in a bag of holding. A portable hole is 6' diameter circle and 10' deep which incidentally is a little over 90 sq. ft., only about 50% larger.
    I believe those diminsions are give to let you know a bag of holding is more akin to a duffle bag or Navy sea bag than a belt pouch. So you're carrying a 2' diameter 4' tall bag that has 64 cubic feet inside.
    I am the flush of excitement. The blush on the cheek. I am the Rouge!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Avatar By Astral Seal!

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Semi-related note:

    I had a player who was a Moon Druid (among other things-it was a tristalt game).

    The PC was an ex-smuggler, who would grab and carry large objects, Wildshape into a horse or cat or whatever, and use the fact that the carried items melded into the animal form to steal them.

    At one point, they were about to get bopped by some incoming ruffians while searching for notes, so she grabbed the whole desk, Wildshaped into a horse, and made a daring escape.

    Good times.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

    Spoiler: Former Avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
    Show

    Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
    Show

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    New Zealand
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    ...I definitely wouldn't like the shenanigans that would be opened with "the steed takes back to its native plane whatever objects they're carrying"
    Agreed. I remember a 1st ed (or 2nd ed?) game where the druid was the party vault.

    1. Druid shapeshifts into animal form.
    2. Party loads all their gear on the animal.
    3. Druid shapeshifts back into normal form. All the gear they were carrying melds into the new form.
    4. Now the party doesn't have to carry all that gear. As a bonus, it is safe from theft or loss.
    Last edited by greenstone; 2022-08-15 at 10:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ad_hoc View Post
    Don't waste time making rolls on things that aren't interesting. Move on and get to the good stuff.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Greywander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2017

    Default Re: Find Steed and Gear

    I think this is a similar issue to things like Wish-Simulacrum abuse. If they could, then they would, but they don't, so that implies that they can't. This logic is just as applicable to using Find Familiar/Steed as an impenetrable extra dimensional bank vault as it is to using a simulacrum to get infinite risk-free wishes.

    That said, it's hugely inconvenient, so I'd like to find a way to make it work, even if it means homebrew.

    I think invisibility could serve a good model to work off of. If you turn invisible then all of your equipment does as well. This can include a macguffin. But there are a number of counters to invisibility, including mundane counters. Magic or certain racial/monster traits can see invisible creatures, and even if they can't be seen they can still be attacked and slain.

    What about something like this? When you dismiss a familiar or steed to its pocket dimension, if they are within, say, 100 feet, a crystal, ring, or other doodad will appear in their last location. This item holds all the equipment they were carrying. Summoning the familiar or steed while that knickknack is on your person will cause them to reappear with all of their equipment and destroy the doodad. Magic and other features that can locate items can find items inside the doodad. Looking into the crystal is like looking through a window, allowing you to see all the items contained inside neatly laid out in the extradimensional space, as clearly as if you were holding those items in your hands, and twisting the gem allows you to see the items from different angles. Intentionally trying to damage the doodad will destroy it and eject the items inside, though it is protected while on your person. If the doodad is ever more than 100 feet away from you, it is destroyed. The doodad can't hold more than the familiar or steed can carry.

    There, I think that should curb the most egregious abuses of familiar storage while still allowing some creative uses.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •