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Thread: Find Steed and Gear
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2022-08-07, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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Find Steed and Gear
If your paladin's Steed (from Find Steed) disappears (through death or dismissal), does any gear it carries with it disappear with it? Does it collapse in a pile?
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2022-08-07, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
- Location
- The United States
- Gender
Re: Find Steed and Gear
Going by what I feel is simple logic, I’m pretty sure the closer-to-RAW answer is that the gear stays behind when the Steed is reduced to 0 or dismissed, though in the former case I don’t think there’s anything game-breaking if the DM rules the other way.
For the latter, however, I can see some cheese in giving the Steed the MacGuffin the BBEG is pursuing the party after and then dismissing the Steed, especially in the case of a paladin who doesn’t normally use the Steed.
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2022-08-07, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- Sweden
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Re: Find Steed and Gear
Gear that was given to it falls into a pile.
If you summon it with a horse with a saddle (I'd assume the mount is summoned with appropriate saddle as a DM) then those also disappear when the mount does.Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal
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2022-08-07, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2020
Re: Find Steed and Gear
I've just had the gear fall off, which I think is RAW. The other way would be a pretty big dis-incentive to put any barding or gear of any sort on the mount... unless I suppose it re-appeared at the next casting.
Full barding probably necessitates a bag of holding or something.
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2022-08-07, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: Find Steed and Gear
So, Find Greater Steed, which was published 3 years later, explicitly leaves behind the equipment when the Steed disappears. From that fact, you can conclude one of two things:
1- this applies only to Find Greater Steed; otherwise, designers would have errata'ed Find Steed
2- this applies both to FS and to FGS; designers don't like erratas and avoid them unless necessary, but took the opportunity of publishing a new spell to clarify how they intend the spell to work.
I think option 2 is correct, and that therefore anything the Steed is carrying or wearing stays behind.
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2022-08-08, 07:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Find Steed and Gear
Gear falling to the ground does seem to be RAW, but it makes the spell horribly inconvenient. How do you carry all of the equipment you'll put on the steed, when you don't have the steed? At a bare minimum, you'll probably need a saddle and associated harness, and that's already really awkward to stick in a backpack or something. And you'll probably want barding, too, which is nigh-on impossible.
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2022-08-08, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2021
Re: Find Steed and Gear
I actually had it happen to me in play once that my Steed was slain. My character (a Dexterity-focused paladin) ended up having to borrow a wheelbarrow to carry the barding and saddle until I had the time to cast Find Steed again, to the hilarity of the rest of the party.
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2022-08-08, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: Find Steed and Gear
A bag of holding helps; that said, I agree with you that at least saddle and harness should be provided with the spell (and disappear if the Steed dies or is dismissed). Boarding I'm not so sure, though, and I definitely wouldn't like the shenanigans that would be opened with "the steed takes back to its native plane whatever objects they're carrying"
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2022-08-08, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: Find Steed and Gear
Maybe let the steed take with it any attuned magic items it has on it? They are, after all, attuned to it. Alternatively, make a Common enchantment for barding and tack and harness that lets it be taken with the steed.
I absolutely get not wanting to let familiars and conjured steeds serve as extradimensional storage, especially for MacGuffins, but I also think that generations of spellcasters would have come up with various solutions to enable at least things that are "part of their kit" to come and go with them.
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2022-08-08, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
Re: Find Steed and Gear
Getting upgraded versions of the spells (or like a special focus or something) that summons your mount with saddle/barding could be a cool quest reward.
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2022-08-08, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
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2022-08-08, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
Re: Find Steed and Gear
Regarding the bag of holding:
I'm not sure this would even contain the barding and saddle. Weight is not a problem but the dimensions might be.
"This bag has an interior space considerably larger than its outside dimensions, roughly 2 feet in diameter at the mouth and 4 feet deep."
Barding and a saddle is a lot of material to stuff into a 2x4 foot space. even harder if you already packed the bedding and other camping supplies from your starting gear in there.
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2022-08-08, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2021
- Location
- Texas
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Re: Find Steed and Gear
The description is interesting because it states those dimensions which would be a little over 12 sq ft. But then it states the bag holds up to 500 pounds and 64 cubic feet which is much larger. I would rule you could keep barding in a bag of holding. A portable hole is 6' diameter circle and 10' deep which incidentally is a little over 90 sq. ft., only about 50% larger.
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2022-08-09, 01:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
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2022-08-09, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Find Steed and Gear
You could houserule that the steed brings what it's wearing with it, but not what it's carrying. That would let it keep the saddle and barding, but prevent it from securely stowing the Macguffin (unless, I suppose, the Macguffin is a saddle or something, but when was the last time you saw a saddle Macguffin?).
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2022-08-09, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2021
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2022-08-10, 06:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Land of Cleves
- Gender
Re: Find Steed and Gear
Oh, and horseshoes. Those require specialized skills just to put on, skills that a PC may or may not have (i.e., not every skilled rider can shoe a horse).
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2022-08-13, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Finland
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Re: Find Steed and Gear
Last edited by Arkhios; 2022-08-13 at 10:19 AM.
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2022-08-13, 04:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
- Location
- Castle Sparrowcellar
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Re: Find Steed and Gear
I'd agree with option 2 being the most likely RAI.
That said, I'd allow the things the steed is wearing (i.e. barding, saddle) to go with it, but carrying (i.e. bags, people) to fall to the ground. If only because I think it's cooler for a paladin to summon their warsteed armoured and ready to go than have to summon it then spend an hour strapping barding down to it.
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2022-08-14, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
Re: Find Steed and Gear
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2022-08-14, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Find Steed and Gear
Semi-related note:
I had a player who was a Moon Druid (among other things-it was a tristalt game).
The PC was an ex-smuggler, who would grab and carry large objects, Wildshape into a horse or cat or whatever, and use the fact that the carried items melded into the animal form to steal them.
At one point, they were about to get bopped by some incoming ruffians while searching for notes, so she grabbed the whole desk, Wildshaped into a horse, and made a daring escape.
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2022-08-15, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
- Location
- New Zealand
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Re: Find Steed and Gear
Agreed. I remember a 1st ed (or 2nd ed?) game where the druid was the party vault.
1. Druid shapeshifts into animal form.
2. Party loads all their gear on the animal.
3. Druid shapeshifts back into normal form. All the gear they were carrying melds into the new form.
4. Now the party doesn't have to carry all that gear. As a bonus, it is safe from theft or loss.
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2022-08-16, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2017
Re: Find Steed and Gear
I think this is a similar issue to things like Wish-Simulacrum abuse. If they could, then they would, but they don't, so that implies that they can't. This logic is just as applicable to using Find Familiar/Steed as an impenetrable extra dimensional bank vault as it is to using a simulacrum to get infinite risk-free wishes.
That said, it's hugely inconvenient, so I'd like to find a way to make it work, even if it means homebrew.
I think invisibility could serve a good model to work off of. If you turn invisible then all of your equipment does as well. This can include a macguffin. But there are a number of counters to invisibility, including mundane counters. Magic or certain racial/monster traits can see invisible creatures, and even if they can't be seen they can still be attacked and slain.
What about something like this? When you dismiss a familiar or steed to its pocket dimension, if they are within, say, 100 feet, a crystal, ring, or other doodad will appear in their last location. This item holds all the equipment they were carrying. Summoning the familiar or steed while that knickknack is on your person will cause them to reappear with all of their equipment and destroy the doodad. Magic and other features that can locate items can find items inside the doodad. Looking into the crystal is like looking through a window, allowing you to see all the items contained inside neatly laid out in the extradimensional space, as clearly as if you were holding those items in your hands, and twisting the gem allows you to see the items from different angles. Intentionally trying to damage the doodad will destroy it and eject the items inside, though it is protected while on your person. If the doodad is ever more than 100 feet away from you, it is destroyed. The doodad can't hold more than the familiar or steed can carry.
There, I think that should curb the most egregious abuses of familiar storage while still allowing some creative uses.