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2022-08-11, 03:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2019
- Location
- Bear mountains! (Alps)
- Gender
Automatic damage during grapples and precision damage
Relevant quotes from the simple RAW thread
The specific circumstances is a grappler that is invisible/has total concealment, so supposedly the target is denied DEX-to-AC ( and otherwise not immune / doens't have uncanny dodge / doesn't have true sight etcetera)
If it helps any, the automatic damage feature is listed under "full attack" and not "special attacks/special qualities" of the stat block, but I don't want to say the creature because it's for monster mash :)
the "it isn't an attack?" was the main reason I am asking, I'm going to use my tuesday arcane hierophant dire bear familiar companion as an example : he has snatch/improved snatch/multisnatch and I do cast either displacement or greater invisibility on us both from my arcane side now and then.
Pretend he has assassin stance or -something- that gives him sneak attack.
Snatch on (2 size smaller) grappled targets deals automatic claw/bite damage, personally I identify this as "an attack that automatically hits", rather than "not an attack", but I am in doubt of that, because I can see the argument goign both ways
thanks for the feedback ^^Last edited by ciopo; 2022-08-11 at 03:33 AM.
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2022-08-11, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- UK
- Gender
Re: Automatic damage during grapples and precision damage
I believe the general rule is that for most forms of precision damge to occur an attack roll is neessary, thus an attach that automatically hits is not subject to precision damage.
That said there are so many forms of precision damage and different rules apply to bonus dice (sneak attack) and flat bonuses (favored enemy) that one has to take it on a case-by-case basis.
Oh look - you have provided specifics - that means we can go into details - thank-you for being so precise - it really healps even if we don't end up agreeing!
So a greater invisible dire bear with improved grab and sneak attack:
Step 1 - make and attack roll, hit and do damage (add sneak attack) then make grapple check (succeed) and start grapple.
Step 2 - grapple to do damage - win check, do you add sneak attack?
Originally Posted by PHB p 156
I think that RAW is that because this is explicitly not an attack roll ("in place of") you don't get sneak attack, however sicne there is an opposed roll it's not an unreasonable house rule to allow it.