OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

[Larsaan]

Oh right, that was his domain ability, nevermind.

[KorvinStarmast]

That's hard to call. It's the only known artifact/creation of TDO, who's a new god.

Perhaps, being a noob, he didn't realize that an artifact needed to have side effects.

Spoiler: Hypothetical fist shake at TDO

Show

(RTFM, TDO, RTFDMG!)

A lot of artifacts have per-day castings of mid level spells, and while they tend to be unimpressive for high-level wielders, these abilities are very powerful in the hands of low-level wielders.

Spells need not be high level to be effective. The trick is to have a few more per day; that's almost never a bad thing. (Feather Fall is a classic case of "need not be high level to be effective" particularly when you just fell off of an airship).

[bunsen_h]

I note that the wording of the Big Modron is that one must agree to the terms of the ESLA "which will now be chanted in its entirety". It does not specify that one must wait to hear the entirety of the ESLA before agreeing to its terms. Though failing to do so would probably cause the Modron's reaction to the caster to be poor.

[Jervis]

I note that the wording of the Big Modron is that one must agree to the terms of the ESLA "which will now be chanted in its entirety". It does not specify that one must wait to hear the entirety of the ESLA before agreeing to its terms. Though failing to do so would probably cause the Modron's reaction to the caster to be poor.

Modrons seem like the kind of creature to read the entire EULA and consult their lawyer before downloading free software

[Fyraltari]

I note that the wording of the Big Modron is that one must agree to the terms of the ESLA "which will now be chanted in its entirety". It does not specify that one must wait to hear the entirety of the ESLA before agreeing to its terms.

Okay, I kind of want the next few pages to have the rest of the chant in the background.

Though failing to do so would probably cause the Modron's reaction to the caster to be poor.

Nah, it's okay, it's already sad.

[Rrmcklin]

I note that the wording of the Big Modron is that one must agree to the terms of the ESLA "which will now be chanted in its entirety". It does not specify that one must wait to hear the entirety of the ESLA before agreeing to its terms. Though failing to do so would probably cause the Modron's reaction to the caster to be poor.

Though as the last panel (and, well, everything else about him) establishes, Redcloak is absolutely the kind of character that will listen to the entire thing.

[bunsen_h]

Okay, I kind of want the next few pages to have the rest of the chant in the background.

I don't think that we'll have to endure the whole thing, though I can imagine seeing excerpts. It would require something happening (even if just discussion among Team Evil) prior to the Gate spell taking effect... or Redcloak agrees prior to listening, and a bunch of stuff starts happening, while the little guy is stuck there chanting.

I've occasionally wondered about the possible validity of a EULA that specifies disposition of one's soul. (IIRC, something like that came up in Your Pretty Face Is Going to Hell.) In OOTS-world, it could probably work that way.

[Reboot]

I've occasionally wondered about the possible validity of a EULA that specifies disposition of one's soul. (IIRC, something like that came up in Your Pretty Face Is Going to Hell.) In OOTS-world, it could probably work that way.

Dave Gorman had a gag in his TV stand-up show where he demonstrated how no-one reads EULAs by pointing out that the entire audience had agreed to make themselves sexually available to him on demand (or something like that) as part of getting their tickets, and not a single one of them had noticed.

[Laurentio III]

Perhaps, being a noob, he didn't realize that an artifact needed to have side effects.

Spoiler: Hypothetical fist shake at TDO

Show

(RTFM, TDO, RTFDMG!)

Spells need not be high level to be effective. The trick is to have a few more per day; that's almost never a bad thing. (Feather Fall is a classic case of "need not be high level to be effective" particularly when you just fell off of an airship).

Feather Fall. Gust of Wind. Comprehend Languages. Purify Food And Drink.
Spells you never need until you need.

On the side, Detect Magic. You can never have too many Detect Magic.

[Eric the White]

I'd missed that -- I didn't notice that it was the same guy, and thought that the wizard was a random ex-Azurite complaining about something that had happened off-screen. Thank you!

I thought he had a Beetlejuice moment and someone stole his "Now Serving" number.

I note that the wording of the Big Modron is that one must agree to the terms of the ESLA "which will now be chanted in its entirety". It does not specify that one must wait to hear the entirety of the ESLA before agreeing to its terms. Though failing to do so would probably cause the Modron's reaction to the caster to be poor.

You'd think a powerful magic user would know he needs to scroll to the end of the form before clicking accept.

[Vikenlugaid]

What is my purpose?
-You pass the butter.
-HURRAY!
-Sheesh, you have issues!

Hey, I understood that reference!

[alceryes]

Modrons seem like the kind of creature to read the entire EULA and consult their lawyer before downloading free software

Modrons seem like the kind of creature to read the entire EULA and consult their lawyer without even having the intension of using the product or service that the EULA is attributed to!

[JonahFalcon]

Modrons seem like the kind of creature to read the entire EULA and consult their lawyer without even having the intension of using the product or service that the EULA is attributed to!

And make little red-marker critiques of the language in the margins.

[danielxcutter]

I have vague memories about something about a Modron March... though that module only happens because the ghost of Orcus was masquerading as Primus after killing him and did that on purpose, so I assume Modrons aren't that inconvenient most of the time.

[Jervis]

I have vague memories about something about a Modron March... though that module only happens because the ghost of Orcus was masquerading as Primus after killing him and did that on purpose, so I assume Modrons aren't that inconvenient most of the time.

Modrons March around the outer planes every X number of years (not sure how often, can’t remember). It’s basically a stampede of thousands on thousands of modrons marching around in a straight line running over everything in the way.

[bunsen_h]

Modrons seem like the kind of creature to read the entire EULA and consult their lawyer without even having the intension of using the product or service that the EULA is attributed to!

Well, sure. Such documents are intrinsically interesting, and when artfully executed, have an innate beauty all their own. It's just that most people don't appreciate them.

[Rikmach]

Modrons March around the outer planes every X number of years (not sure how often, can’t remember). It’s basically a stampede of thousands on thousands of modrons marching around in a straight line running over everything in the way.

The march happens every 17 Grand Cycles of the main gear of Mechanus- Or every 289 years to those of us that track time that way.

[danielxcutter]

I think that particular March was a problem because Orcus-ghost-masquerading-as-Primus activated it like two centuries too early or something?

[bunsen_h]

The march happens every 17 Grand Cycles of the main gear of Mechanus- Or every 289 years to those of us that track time that way.

When was this published? I'm wondering if it's a coincidence that there are similarities to the "cycles" and "great cycles" of 17 described in Steven Brust's Dragaera novels.

[JonahFalcon]

When was this published? I'm wondering if it's a coincidence that there are similarities to the "cycles" and "great cycles" of 17 described in Steven Brust's Dragaera novels.

There was also a rogue march when Orcus killed Primus.

Never mind. Ninja'd myself.

[brian 333]

I don't get the whole, Modron March thing. They wouldn't make it all the way around before being completely wiped out.

Just as a mathematical exercise: there is a finite number of modrons. As soon as they hit The Abbyss, they would encounter an infinity of demons, all of whom violently oppose the very existence of Modrons. And it would happen again in Pandemonium, and again in Limbo. So, very large but finite number meets infinity x 3 enemies. How do they survive to tell their stories?

The plane of LN would be empty for a good while after such a march, and the modrons, being outsiders, would cease to exist without having incorporated into their plane.

Sorry, I didn't read the story, but this appears to be a case of the author not thinking through the idea, or me thinking too far into it.

[Peelee]

I don't get the whole, Modron March thing. They wouldn't make it all the way around before being completely wiped out.

Just as a mathematical exercise: there is a finite number of modrons. As soon as they hit The Abbyss, they would encounter an infinity of demons, all of whom violently oppose the very existence of Modrons. And it would happen again in Pandemonium, and again in Limbo. So, very large but finite number meets infinity x 3 enemies. How do they survive to tell their stories?

The plane of LN would be empty for a good while after such a march, and the modrons, being outsiders, would cease to exist without having incorporated into their plane.

Sorry, I didn't read the story, but this appears to be a case of the author not thinking through the idea, or me thinking too far into it.

Just because there is an infinite amount of enemies does not mean that any of them will be where the Modrons are.

Admittedly, that's a very, very weak argument, but its an argument.

[Fyraltari]

I don't get the whole, Modron March thing. They wouldn't make it all the way around before being completely wiped out.

Just as a mathematical exercise: there is a finite number of modrons. As soon as they hit The Abbyss, they would encounter an infinity of demons, all of whom violently oppose the very existence of Modrons. And it would happen again in Pandemonium, and again in Limbo. So, very large but finite number meets infinity x 3 enemies. How do they survive to tell their stories?

The plane of LN would be empty for a good while after such a march, and the modrons, being outsiders, would cease to exist without having incorporated into their plane.

Sorry, I didn't read the story, but this appears to be a case of the author not thinking through the idea, or me thinking too far into it.

Wait there's a finite number of Modrons but an infinite number of everything else? How come?

[Peelee]

Wait there's a finite number of Modrons but an infinite number of everything else? How come?

That's just how it be, really. Just like the planes themselves - some are infinite, some are finite.

[Kantaki]

Wait there's a finite number of Modrons but an infinite number of everything else? How come?

I mean, isn't there only technically a limited number?
Knock one off and it gets replaced by a lower rank getting promoted/ a new one getting spawned?
Besides, can you imagine a literally (as opposed to effectively) infinite number of buerocrats?
There only being a finite number of those things at once is for the good of all planes.

[Peelee]

Besides, can you imagine a literally (as opposed to effectively) infinite number of buerocrats?

No. Humans are great at abstract math but horrible at concrete numbers. Imagining even a thousand of something is nearly impossible for us, we're just the worst at big numbers.

[alceryes]

Well, sure. Such documents are intrinsically interesting, and when artfully executed, have an innate beauty all their own. It's just that most people don't appreciate them.

Here they are! I found the Modron masquarading as a forum member! Get'em!

[bunsen_h]

No. Humans are great at abstract math but horrible at concrete numbers. Imagining even a thousand of something is nearly impossible for us, we're just the worst at big numbers.

There's some dependence on details. I can imagine a 10 x 10 x 10 array of simple objects fairly well.

[Crusher]

Wait there's a finite number of Modrons but an infinite number of everything else? How come?

Eeeeh. How do we know there’s an infinite number of demons? Who would know besides the demons, right? So the only reason we’d know is because a demon said so. I can think of few less reliable sources of information.

[Peelee]

Eeeeh. How do we know there’s an infinite number of demons? Who would know besides the demons, right? So the only reason we’d know is because a demon said so. I can think of few less reliable sources of information.

That's an excellent point. The actual number of demons is exactly one less than infinity.