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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Gonna throw out here the description of a Septon (7th rank; 49 in existence):

    Septons looked humanoid, with a large head. On one side of its head was a face, with two eyes, nose and mouth. The head was hairless and was supported by a collar of sorts that encircled it's shoulder area. Around this collar were seven evenly spaced small arms.
    -From https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Septon

    This seems to fit the way Rich drew it, specifically with the collar and the multiple arms. There are 5 visible in the panel, but since 7 arms at rest would get a bit crowded, I'm guessing that the remaining two are simply behind its body. n00bs like me can check out https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Modron to learn all about Modrons.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Definitely resembles a Quinton, who are the major bureau chiefs and record keepers of the Modrons. Entering into a contract seems like it would fit into the role of a Quinton.
    Their (3E) abilities (from the Manual of the Planes WE) include Legend Lore at will, which is what I suspect Redcloak is after.

    It's worth pointing out that one of the 'arms' appears to be coming from behind the creature and is probably a prehensile tail. Which also fits with the Quinton.
    Last edited by Magesmiley; 2022-08-11 at 10:15 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nibelung View Post
    Gate consumes XP to be cast.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I figure it's just "XPs are part of the soul"
    Huh. That has... implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Why? I woudlnt expect them to have an encyclopedic knowledge on Redcloak's behaviors and statements.
    Sure, but he may commit some new one while they're around.
    Quote Originally Posted by glowface View Post
    Mechanus (Nirvana)
    Does D&D really call it that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncun View Post
    It is baseball related. Usually, if you have the lead, you bring in your best relief pitcher in the 9th(last) inning in order close out the game. But sometimes you will bring them in earlier in the game in order to protect the lead if you feel you are going to lose the lead thereby giving you a better chance at winning even if you don't have your closer in at the end.
    Quote Originally Posted by GooeyChewie View Post
    Yes, it is baseball related. A “reliever” is a pitcher who is brought in late on the game to replace the starting pitcher. Ideally your starting pitcher gets the opposing batters out quickly and does not need to be relieved until very late in the game, if at all. Relieving your pitcher in inning 7 is considered early and probably means the opposing team is doing well, forcing your pitcher to throw more pitches.
    Thank you!
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper Jo View Post
    I actually fully laughed out loud at "what gate?". Very unexpected callback.
    lowkey thinking the word "Gate" might be some kind of mental conditioning / trigger word to make Mitd's mind retroactively erase recent memories and not form new memories for a time.

    maybe relevant to THE gates, maybe not. but it's a thought if nothing else. most likely just overthinking a running gag though.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    As I recall, Manual of the Planes had a free web enhancement with stats for low-ranking modrons.
    Just looked it up and that seems to be the case it was called The Modrons (also had stats for everything up to a Secondus)- the enhancement is available on the wayback machine and it includes this line: 'This Wizards of the Coast game product contains no Open Game Content. No portion of this work may be reproduced in any form without written permission'.

    Also based on that supplement this creature if we were using it would seem to match a quinton very well - perhaps The Giant did get permission, or maybe maybe enough time has past since 2001 for it not to matter, or parody being protected etc, or maybe it just isn't isn't a quinton.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kark View Post
    I'm glad that Mike Wazowski still continues to get work, even if this kind of work is the exact opposite of his previous line.
    Quote Originally Posted by St Fan View Post
    Am I the only one getting Minions vibes from the one-eyed Modrons?
    They are children borne out of Mike's one night stands at Gru's whorehouse.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    No one ever wants to read terms and conditions. Singing them still sounds annoying.
    Rich knows how to land a cultural reference pretty well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    most likely just overthinking a running gag though.
    Probably.

    I do like the in-world example of how the XP cost of a spell manifests itself.

    I like the "what gate" gag resurfacing.

    Xykon's impatience is very much in character.

    Modron EULA ESLA: of course they have one!
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2022-08-11 at 10:25 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Cheer up, ESLA-chanter, Redcloak might actually listen.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Btw modrons are more about law and order to absurdity not logic. They are not embodiments so much as natives of the plane. They are so weird that the extremes of the castes can’t even see each other - possibly an in joke about TSR office politics at the time
    'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Magesmiley View Post
    Definitely resembles a Quinton, who are the major bureau chiefs and record keepers of the Modrons. Entering into a contract seems like it would fit into the role of a Quinton.
    Their (3E) abilities (from the Manual of the Planes WE) include Legend Lore at will, which is what I suspect Redcloak is after.

    It's worth pointing out that one of the 'arms' appears to be coming from behind the creature and is probably a prehensile tail. Which also fits with the Quinton.
    Looks like! From https://www.tsrarchive.com/3e/Modrons.pdf:
    A quinton is a tall, stocky humanoid with four flexible arms jutting out from its shoulders and a prehensile tail that serves as a fifth arm. Each of its five arms ends in a five-fingered hand. From its back sprouts a pair of fanlike wings, similar to those of a hexton. A diamond inscribed in the quinton’s forehead serves as a symbol of rank.

    Quintons speak the modron tongue, plus Abyssal, Auran, Celestial, Infernal, and the trade tongue of the planes. They receive orders from quartons and pass them along to hextons.

    The quintons are the bureau chiefs and recordkeepers of Mechanus. Each quinton heads a separate bureau — there is one bureau in each of the regional and quarter towers, plus five in Primus’s tower. Each quinton has one hexton assistant, who in turn can put additional lower-ranked modrons at its supervisor’s disposal.
    Obviously some comic liberties are taken with finger count.
    Last edited by Toper; 2022-08-11 at 10:33 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Just looked it up and that seems to be the case it was called The Modrons (also had stats for everything up to a Secondus)- the enhancement is available on the wayback machine and it includes this line: 'This Wizards of the Coast game product contains no Open Game Content. No portion of this work may be reproduced in any form without written permission'.

    Also based on that supplement this creature if we were using it would seem to match a quinton very well - perhaps The Giant did get permission, or maybe maybe enough time has past since 2001 for it not to matter, or parody being protected etc, or maybe it just isn't isn't a quinton.
    Considering Sunny, I am fairly sure that the Giant has at least some agreement in place with WotC to use some of their content.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    So what is that thing? The Lawful equivalent of a Deva/Fiend?
    Modrons are pure Lawful, but yes.

    As opposed to Devas being Lawful Good, or Fiends being Chaotic Evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    And it takes a part of your soul to summon that? That sounds more like a Fiendish thing. Then again, I suppose bureaucracy is soul-crushing.
    GATE has an XP cost is the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Can someone explain to me the joke the roach makes in the third panel? I'm guessing it's base-ball related?
    A baseball game has 9 innings, so putting your best guy in during the 7th means they will have go longer than if you put them in right at the end. Which is OK if they've got the stamina for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I wonder if Redcloak will pay attention to the agreement or if this will come back to mess with him.
    Unlike Xykon, he seems to care about it.
    "Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Redcloak is summoning an Modron of law to a place within a hundred miles of Xykon? THIS WILL NOT END WELL.

    I am unsure how the summoned Modron will speed things up, but that's for Redcloak to know and me to find out.

    For the curious, a link to the SRD for Gate. Redcloak can get a single being with CR up to twice his caster level, or multiple beings with total CR equal to his caster level. So, one super-powerful being, or a slew of mini searchers.

    It also costs him 1000 XP per cast, out of a probable total of about 140,000. If he casts enough, it drops him a level. He can't do this casually.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    I thought you COULDN'T go down a level. If it would drop you a level to pay an XP cost you just couldn't cast it. IIRC you were allowed to delay leveling up if thought you were going to cast a big XP spell for exactly that reason.
    "Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I am not sure if Modron's are in the public domain - so like Sunny being a creature that looks like a beholder but is different these might not actually be modrons and as such might not match up with modron physical descriptions.
    I assumed after Zzdrit's "Parody is Free Speech" then everything is back on the table.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    I am unsure how the summoned Modron will speed things up, but that's for Redcloak to know and me to find out.
    Clairvoyance, Clairaudience, Teleport without errors... They can know a lot about what's behind the doors at low cost.
    Plus they'll be systematic about it!

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    Redcloak is summoning an Modron of law to a place within a hundred miles of Xykon? THIS WILL NOT END WELL.

    I am unsure how the summoned Modron will speed things up, but that's for Redcloak to know and me to find out.

    For the curious, a link to the SRD for Gate. Redcloak can get a single being with CR up to twice his caster level, or multiple beings with total CR equal to his caster level. So, one super-powerful being, or a slew of mini searchers.

    It also costs him 1000 XP per cast, out of a probable total of about 140,000. If he casts enough, it drops him a level. He can't do this casually.
    It cannot cost him a level.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    XP Cost (XP)
    Some powerful spells entail an experience point cost to you. No spell can restore the XP lost in this manner. You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, so you cannot cast the spell unless you have enough XP to spare. However, you may, on gaining enough XP to attain a new level, use those XP for casting a spell rather than keeping them and advancing a level. The XP are treated just like a material component—expended when you cast the spell, whether or not the casting succeeds.
    Last edited by Doug Lampert; 2022-08-11 at 10:42 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    So is RC going to ask it the logically optimal way to locate the gate?
    "That's not right, that's not even wrong."

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper Jo View Post
    I actually fully laughed out loud at "what gate?". Very unexpected callback.
    Same, that was fantastic.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Unsure as to rules about XP loss, I never had to DM that situation.

    A little more about baseball pitchers:

    Normally you have a starting pitcher, who you want to go as long as possible. A "complete game" is when no relief pitchers are used. These are now somewhat rare. Because pitching at the major league level is so fatiguing, a team will have 4 or 5 starters, and a starting pitcher only starts every few games. If the starter doesn't go at least 5 innings before being replaced (pulled), they cannot receive credit as the winning pitcher, even if their team wins.

    Then you have middle relievers. These are the guys you bring in if you have to replace your starter in the middle innings. They can go 2 or 3 innings, usually, and can pitch every few days.

    And then there's the closer. This is the best reliever on the team, and sometimes the best pitcher. This is the guy you bring in for one inning if your team has a small lead, and he usually has the ability to shut down the other team with a near-unhittable pitch or two (e.g., a 100 MPH fastball, or a wicked curve).

    If you bring in the closer to do anything other than protect a small lead in the last inning, it's a sign that the situation is desperate.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

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  21. - Top - End - #51
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    I am unsure how the summoned Modron will speed things up, but that's for Redcloak to know and me to find out.
    According to some of the rules I've seen, Quintons can cast Legend Lore at will. If so, this could be very useful in tracking down the Gate.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    That title... ouch.
    They are both of "singular vision"
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Ooo, I just remembered something about Gate. If you want the summoned creature(s) to do anything that takes significant time (more rounds than you have caster levels, so 2 minutes or so), you have to pay them, in a "coin" that they value.

    What will a Modron want in payment? Service? Gold? Metals?

    Here's a thought: Redcloak sets very low value on MitD. Will he attempt to trade MitD for Modron support?
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quintons are CR14 so they're decently formidable in a fight, but one wouldn't be more than a speed bump on its own against the Order at this point. However, their real strength is in information gathering and recording and they have a bunch of abilities and spells along those lines. Plus, each one has a literal army of lesser Modrons (at least hundreds and possibly thousands) under their command and every single one, even the very weakest, has innate True Seeing.

    These guys are here to cut through the illusions and other misdirections to figure out exactly where Kraagor's Gate actually is.

    Edit - I wonder if this is Serini's worst nightmare in terms of protecting Kraagor's Gate or if she's got something up her sleeve even for this. Because this is varsity-level Divination and shenanigans-unraveling.
    Last edited by Crusher; 2022-08-11 at 11:00 AM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I wonder if Redcloak will pay attention to the agreement or if this will come back to mess with him.
    Why wouldn't he? He's Lawful, that's the entire point of this. We can assume he'll stick with the agreement until noted otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by mucat View Post
    That was my thought too. Nothing like a modron to shine the searing light of logic on Redcloak's tangled self-narrative.
    I confess this would be pretty amusing.

    A modron would certainly have had a field day with his logic here.

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I am not sure if Modron's are in the public domain - so like Sunny being a creature that looks like a beholder but is different these might not actually be modrons and as such might not match up with modron physical descriptions.
    IIRC the Giant gave an explanation on Product Identity monsters before, it's linked in the MitD thread as rationale for why PI doesn't rule out a monster from appearing in the comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by ellindsey View Post
    According to some of the rules I've seen, Quintons can cast Legend Lore at will. If so, this could be very useful in tracking down the Gate.
    I dunno... That spell can take days if not weeks to cast. And the results might not be much better than the info they have now.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisIsNotDan View Post
    Gonna throw out here the description of a Septon (7th rank; 49 in existence):



    -From https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Septon

    This seems to fit the way Rich drew it, specifically with the collar and the multiple arms. There are 5 visible in the panel, but since 7 arms at rest would get a bit crowded, I'm guessing that the remaining two are simply behind its body. n00bs like me can check out https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Modron to learn all about Modrons.
    Quinton seems to fit perfectly well without making any assptions, though. Plus the delightful phrase "Quinton for the win-ton" that u am shamelessly stealing from the MitD thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Huh. That has... implications
    Does it? We already know the gods basically feed on soul power, and the reason for existence is for people to grow so they have more soul power. Seems to fit perfectly well with what we already know and doesn't really have any implications that didn't exist before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Does D&D really call it that?
    Yep.

    Also, thanks, Better Call Saul, I can never see or hear that word without thinking of that scene now.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Awww, I love the Modrons! They warm the cold cockles of my lawyer's heart.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Quintons are CR14 so they're decently formidable in a fight, but one wouldn't be more than a speed bump on its own against the Order at this point. However, their real strength is in information gathering and recording and they have a bunch of abilities and spells along those lines. Plus, each one has a literal army of lesser Modrons (at least hundreds and possibly thousands) under their command and every single one, even the very weakest, has innate True Seeing.

    These guys are here to cut through the illusions and other misdirections to figure out exactly where Kraagor's Gate actually is.

    Edit - I wonder if this is Serini's worst nightmare in terms of protecting Kraagor's Gate or if she's got something up her sleeve even for this. Because this is varsity-level Divination and misdirection-penetrating.
    What illusions?
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Wait, this whole time we’ve been talking about a spell?

    That made me actually laugh out loud and the terms and conditions were pretty funny too. Props to the playgrounders here who answered my question of “What did he summon?” before I could ask it.


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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    What illusions?
    Doesn't the teleport line have some kind of illusion/invisibility component?

    Now that I think about it, I suppose it couldn't, could it? Aren't liches immune to illusions?

    Edit - Here's a link to the stats and some pics of the high ranking Modrons. The art of the Quinton looks a *lot* like this guy. He's even got the steampunk-y monocle thing and elbow pads.
    https://dmdave.com/modrons-2/
    Last edited by Crusher; 2022-08-11 at 11:08 AM.
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