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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    There's a "fair use" element in play. Marvel didn't kick up a fuss over Dave Sim's introduction of the "Wolverroach" parody character in Cerebus until the character's third appearance. They were willing to pass off the first two as satire, but after that, they felt that the character was infringing on their trademarks.
    That's exactly what I mean. The Mind Flayer was there for three strips for a gag of the comic being taken down for copyright infringement, while Sunny is a major character who is intended to play a major part in the final book. That's why I believe the Giant was given an agreement by WotC to add a beholder as a major character, with maybe some restrictions to avoid making it seem like beholders are free use (not directly stating Sunny is one, the number of eyes difference, stuff like that).

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Whoa.

    Didn't know that Redcroach... I mean Redcloak, and The Dark One were Lawful!


    For the 1000 XP, do you think that he De-Dinged back to Lvl-8 spells?

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Souhiro View Post
    Whoa.

    Didn't know that Redcroach... I mean Redcloak, and The Dark One were Lawful!
    You didn't think that Redcloak was Lawful? Really?
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Souhiro View Post
    For the 1000 XP, do you think that he De-Dinged back to Lvl-8 spells?
    You can't spend enough XP on a spell to lose a level, so no.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Souhiro View Post
    Didn't know that Redcroach... I mean Redcloak, and The Dark One were Lawful!
    We don't know if The Dark One is - there is an element in SOD which may point to it but there is nothing in the online comic to suggest he is (and that bit in SOD is perhaps contradicted by online sources).

    Gate is a lawful spell in this case and 'A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s' but I don't think there is anything that indicates that Law is opposed to anything other then Chaos - so the Dark One cannot be chaotic I think is all we know from the online comic.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    We don't know if The Dark One is - there is an element in SOD which may point to it but there is nothing in the online comic to suggest he is (and that bit in SOD is perhaps contradicted by online sources).

    Gate is a lawful spell in this case and 'A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s' but I don't think there is anything that indicates that Law is opposed to anything other then Chaos - so the Dark One cannot be chaotic I think is all we know from the online comic.
    Dark one Is totally lawful Evil. Redcloak says "the other side of the family" and I doubt if he counts himself apart from his god.
    Regardless of whether or not this is true, this shuts down the theory that cloak is NE, unless the above is true about dark one being lawful.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I wonder if Redcloak will pay attention to the agreement or if this will come back to mess with him.
    i mean he IS lawful so he probably will pay attention.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    I wonder if Redcloak and Xykon have an accurate enough description of the Gate for Greater Teleport to get them to it. The Quintons are supposed to be able to duplicate its effects at will -- or at least "Teleport without error", which appears to be the same thing.

  9. - Top - End - #99

    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenstep View Post
    Cheer up, ESLA-chanter, Redcloak might actually listen.
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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ellindsey View Post
    It looks like it has five arms to me. Which as far as I can tell doesn't match the description of any modron, unless it's a Quinton and the fifth arm is actually its tail.
    the 5th one is definitely coming from a different spot than the 4 arms so it does seem like a tail.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    A side thing: how would the modron (the big one)'s wings function? Aren't modrons built to be as practical? Also, how powerful is the primus. Isn't he like a god or more of a ruler of a plane, like asmodeus(non-forgotten realms) or the four demigods of arcadia

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I am not sure if Modron's are in the public domain - so like Sunny being a creature that looks like a beholder but is different these might not actually be modrons and as such might not match up with modron physical descriptions.
    might be why the forehead lacks a diamond symbol, and why the wings are so small compared to the quinton image linked earlier.
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  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
    A side thing: how would the modron (the big one)'s wings function? Aren't modrons built to be as practical?
    Magic. Or maybe they unfold.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    I have to admit, I am not familiar enough with what Redcloak might be summoning to even guess what it is supposed to do to help.

    Could someone with more knowledge of the source material help a guy out, and give me your best theory as to what it's probably going to do?

    I thought it would help Redcloak find the path forward, but that's only based on context, not knowledge of what the lawful creature Red might have summoned can do.
    i guess their sheer numbers will let them check more of the doors?
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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Notably, Redcloak picking Lawful creatures to summon instead of Fiendish ones means that if things go south, his Gated allies are more likely to aid him than Xykon.
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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Strangely enough, the Creature in the Darkness has already witnessed Redcloak casting this spell, without wondering what "Gate" he was talking about.

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Coppercloud View Post
    Strangely enough, the Creature in the Darkness has already witnessed Redcloak casting this spell, without wondering what "Gate" he was talking about.
    probably was distracted by mistaking desert for dessert!
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
    A side thing: how would the modron (the big one)'s wings function? Aren't modrons built to be as practical?
    She can FLY???

    I should avoid casting any spells tonight, if only to give the laws of physics time to cry alone in the corner.

    Apparently the modrons respect the laws of magic, if not those of physics.

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    I wonder if Redcloak and Xykon have an accurate enough description of the Gate for Greater Teleport to get them to it. The Quintons are supposed to be able to duplicate its effects at will -- or at least "Teleport without error", which appears to be the same thing.
    Xykon and Redcloak can both cast greater teleport themselves (in Redcloak's case, by using miracle to duplicate it), so I doubt this is what Redcloak has in mind.
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  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    She can FLY???

    I should avoid casting any spells tonight, if only to give the laws of physics time to cry alone in the corner.

    Apparently the modrons respect the laws of magic, if not those of physics.
    I suppose so, though I would place my bets on them folding out.

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Given the fairly strong foreshadowing and flashbacks of the past couple of strips, do you think Redcloak is hedging his bets about Xykon & ensuring his summons will be loyal to him, the most Lawful person on Team Evil? As opposed to equally meticulous and lawful devils, who might also advance Evil at the expense of goblinkind.

    Also, with Durkon's instructions from Thor and associated Good gods, and V.'s ...involvement... with the fiends, I wonder if any beings of pure chaos will turn up again?

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Plus 1k xp is mostly trivial at that level
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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by glassCannon View Post
    Also, with Durkon's instructions from Thor and associated Good gods, and V.'s ...involvement... with the fiends, I wonder if any beings of pure chaos will turn up again?
    Well, we did have Chaos giraffes from Limbo and a slaad before.

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Yes, yes, yes!
    Modrons!
    They fit so perfectly with this art style, tbh! They almost feel like originals.

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  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
    A side thing: how would the modron (the big one)'s wings function? Aren't modrons built to be as practical? Also, how powerful is the primus. Isn't he like a god or more of a ruler of a plane, like asmodeus(non-forgotten realms) or the four demigods of arcadia
    A lot of things fly via magic but the wings might be where the magic is. Like Dragons do NOT have the wingspan to hold themselves and it's addressed in 2nd Ed and I believe in the Draconomicon in 3.X. The wings are where the magic around their flight is, so you can damage wings and ground them, but they're not just using aerodynamics and physics.

    As for Primus. Primus is on par with a greater deity with some variances. We're talking at least on the level with Thor and Redcloak's god to grab from the source in question.

    A Greater deity relies on mortal faith and is tied to it. Their own domain and the material world where their followers are. Primus, or the other head exemplars (examples: Asmodeus, Zaphkiel, Talisid, The Oinoloth, Morwel, etc) Are the pinnacle of what they are. They have the power of deities, People pray to them and get spells, though it's the concept they embody that grants the power. The Primus IS mortal, it dies periodically, a Secundus replaces it and so on down the line.

    It was actually a major plot point in 2nd Edition, Orcus was killed, became a deity, killed a Primus and became Primus for a time in order to regain its life. BUT, Orcus is also a Demon Prince on par with Primus, Asmodeus, etc from the get go, so...
    Last edited by Pixel_Kitsune; 2022-08-11 at 03:28 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Coppercloud View Post
    Strangely enough, the Creature in the Darkness has already witnessed Redcloak casting this spell, without wondering what "Gate" he was talking about.
    Maybe he just assumed it was something he could just do SU style? Could imply that MitD and his species can do that in addition to the greater teleportesque ability
    Last edited by Jervis; 2022-08-11 at 03:30 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Okay, this is gonna be cool!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    So... What other costs are Redcloak talking about regarding this spell?
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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    So... What other costs are Redcloak talking about regarding this spell?
    With the Gate spell, if the task that you are asking the gated-in entity will take more than a few rounds to complete, you must offer the called being some form of fair trade in return. What form that fair trade will consist of will depend on the task and the entity you've called. So he's going to have to offer the Mordon something to make this worth its time.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    So... What other costs are Redcloak talking about regarding this spell?
    https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm:
    A controlled creature can be commanded to perform a service for you. Such services fall into two categories: immediate tasks and contractual service. Fighting for you in a single battle or taking any other actions that can be accomplished within 1 round per caster level counts as an immediate task; you need not make any agreement or pay any reward for the creature’s help. The creature departs at the end of the spell.

    If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service. The service exacted must be reasonable with respect to the promised favor or reward; see the lesser planar ally spell for appropriate rewards*. (Some creatures may want their payment in “livestock” rather than in coin, which could involve complications.) Immediately upon completion of the service, the being is transported to your vicinity, and you must then and there turn over the promised reward. After this is done, the creature is instantly freed to return to its own plane.

    Failure to fulfill the promise to the letter results in your being subjected to service by the creature or by its liege and master, at the very least. At worst, the creature or its kin may attack you.

    *https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarAllyLesser.htm:
    ...payment can take a variety of forms, from donating gold or magic items to an allied temple, to a gift given directly to the creature, to some other action on your part that matches the creature’s alignment and goals. Regardless, this payment must be made before the creature agrees to perform any services. The bargaining takes at least 1 round, so any actions by the creature begin in the round after it arrives.

    A task taking up to 1 minute per caster level requires a payment of 100 gp per HD of the creature called. For a task taking up to 1 hour per caster level, the creature requires a payment of 500 gp per HD. A long-term task, one requiring up to one day per caster level, requires a payment of 1,000 gp per HD.

    A nonhazardous task requires only half the indicated payment, while an especially hazardous task might require a greater gift. Few if any creatures will accept a task that seems suicidal (remember, a called creature actually dies when it is killed, unlike a summoned creature). However, if the task is strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment.
    Last edited by Reboot; 2022-08-11 at 03:56 PM.

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