OOTS #1264 - The Discussion Thread

[Eric the White]

It may be that he didn't know the 12 Gods gave out moral domains, especially if he's got enough Knowledge: Religion to know the Giant's stance that they are basically all True Neutral anyway.

I'd say its just that the Giant missed one. Not a big deal, its got to be a nightmare to have every little thing all lined up just in case in 700 strips you want to have someone know/not know something.

[arimareiji]

I don't think there's any rule against a pitcher playing consecutive games. The bigger issue is just that pitching is very tiring; it's not very often a relief pitcher is ready to go in consecutive games, especially if he pitches more than one inning. And most teams have a rotation of five starters to give them enough time to rest and recover.

What is true is that a player who leaves a game can't come back in. So if you bring your closer in early and he pitches as long as he can, but you fail to close out the game, you could be in trouble in the final innings.

It's kindofa good misconception, actually. It's not a rule per se, but nowadays (as it becomes a higher priority to avoid injury instead of just using up and discarding players) good managers should make rest mandatory to the point that it seems like a "rule".

If you put in a pitcher who's tired and/or their body hasn't had time to repair the micro-injuries that occur at the cellular level when you repeatedly hurl an object 100mph, the odds quickly climb that they'll aggravate micro-injuries into larger (but still tiny) ones that take longer to heal. And if you keep going they can escalate to minor tears that become a long-term problem, or even into major tears that can end a season or even a career. (Not to mention scar tissue is almost always weaker and less functional than the tissue it replaced.)

~~~

Going back to the roach metaphor that started this: As a baseball fan, it drives me half-mad* to see managers get their heads stuck so far up their "defined roles"... that they send in a subpar reliever to face the other team's best hitters in the 7th with the bases loaded (because "you have to save your closer for the 9th/last inning"). Then they console themselves with the fact that the closer wasn't really needed anyway, because that 4-3 lead became 4-9 against them.

So, smart move on Redcloak's part to put in his closer when he can do the most good (instead of saving him for the 9th because reasons).

* - I suspect the Giant might harbor similar feelings of lesser intensity, given the metaphor.

I don't think he has Law domain.
Note this strip
Redcloak wonders how he got the "Hold Monster" spell, and the other guy says "Law Domain"

You'd think Redcloak would know that if it's his domain.

Criminally-underrated delayed-punchline joke: 30 strips later, "Wait a minute, I had a 22!"

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html (fifth panel)

[JonahFalcon]

* - I suspect the Giant might harbor similar feelings of lesser intensity, given the metaphor.


Criminally-underrated delayed-punchline joke: 30 strips later, "Wait a minute, I had a 22!"

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html (fifth panel)

It's not underrated. It's a classic.

[arimareiji]

Who has said that joke is underrated?

Says I, because I love it and therefore if it doesn't get frequent mention... then in my inerrant supreme judginess of comedy, I decree it's been underrated. (^_~)

[a_flemish_guy]

A lot of things fly via magic but the wings might be where the magic is. Like Dragons do NOT have the wingspan to hold themselves and it's addressed in 2nd Ed and I believe in the Draconomicon in 3.X. The wings are where the magic around their flight is, so you can damage wings and ground them, but they're not just using aerodynamics and physics.

As for Primus. Primus is on par with a greater deity with some variances. We're talking at least on the level with Thor and Redcloak's god to grab from the source in question.

A Greater deity relies on mortal faith and is tied to it. Their own domain and the material world where their followers are. Primus, or the other head exemplars (examples: Asmodeus, Zaphkiel, Talisid, The Oinoloth, Morwel, etc) Are the pinnacle of what they are. They have the power of deities, People pray to them and get spells, though it's the concept they embody that grants the power. The Primus IS mortal, it dies periodically, a Secundus replaces it and so on down the line.

It was actually a major plot point in 2nd Edition, Orcus was killed, became a deity, killed a Primus and became Primus for a time in order to regain its life. BUT, Orcus is also a Demon Prince on par with Primus, Asmodeus, etc from the get go, so...

I think the purpose of becoming primus wasn't so much more power but so he could call the great march early in order to search for his rod, this proved to be really troublesome to the modrons once the orcus primus was replaced by a regular one

[andowero]

I wonder what pantheon the Primus belongs to or whether he even is a god.

[Ezekiel]

I wonder what pantheon the Primus belongs to or whether he even is a god.

I always assumed Primus was just a very powerful outsider.

[a_flemish_guy]

also if this truly is a quinton then if RC can ask for it's full cooperation there will also be
1 hexton
1 septon
25 pentadrones
64 quadrones
81 tridrones
and an unknown number of duodrones and monodrones (I suspect it's a lot)

I suspect in the limitations of the comic we're only going to see the duodrones and monodrones though (technicly the quinton shouldn't even be able to give orders to the singing monodrone as the modrons can only understand another modron of the same rank or one higher or lower)

[a_flemish_guy]

I always assumed Primus was just a very powerful outsider.

I think he's an avatar of the plane of mechanus itself

[Fyraltari]

also if this truly is a quinton then if RC can ask for it's full cooperation there will also be
1 hexton
1 septon
25 pentadrones
64 quadrones
81 tridrones
and an unknown number of duodrones and monodrones (I suspect it's a lot)

Considering that Modrons probably don't sit on their hands all day and have business to attend to, I doubt Redcloak can afford all of that.

[Peelee]

Considering that Modrons probably don't sit on their hands all day and have business to attend to, I doubt Redcloak can afford all of that.

New idea for monster. Handsitter. They have no native environment and do nothing all day long. They are bored to tears and live in the hope that some day they will be summoned to perform a task to add some variety into their lives. They are so desparate their payment is typically trifling though made up to appear as if valuable. Due to their neediness weirding out the spellcaster summoning them, the summoner suffers a -10 to all charisma checks as long as the Handsitter is performing its task.

[a_flemish_guy]

Considering that Modrons probably don't sit on their hands all day and have business to attend to, I doubt Redcloak can afford all of that.

that's why the "if he can get full cooperation" is there
and probably also the reason why he'll only get the monodrones and duodrones and perhaps some at-will abilities from the quinton

[bunsen_h]

Criminally-underrated delayed-punchline joke: 30 strips later, "Wait a minute, I had a 22!"

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html (fifth panel)

I'd missed that -- I didn't notice that it was the same guy, and thought that the wizard was a random ex-Azurite complaining about something that had happened off-screen. Thank you!

[Fyraltari]

New idea for monster. Handsitter. They have no native environment and no nothing ask day long. They are bored to tears and live in the hope that some day they will be summoned to perform a task to add some variety into their lives. They are so desparate their payment is typically trifling though made up to appear as if valuable. Due to their neediness weird ing out the spellcaster summoning them, the summoner suffers a - 10 to all charisma checks as long as the Handsitter is performing its task.

What is my purpose?
-You pass the butter.
-HURRAY!
-Sheesh, you have issues!

[andowero]

... Considering that the Cloak actually... doesn't seem to have that impressive abilities for an artifact of that much importance...

Immortality and knowledge of deity ending ritual is not impressive enough? From gamer perspective it isn't really impressive, but the person wearing it may appreciate those qualities.

[danielxcutter]

Immortality and knowledge of deity ending ritual is not impressive enough? From gamer perspective it isn't really impressive, but the person wearing it may appreciate those qualities.

As a plot device, yes, it's very impressive. Artifacts usually do tend to have a bit more of a punch than that though. Especially since I suspect this is a major artifact.

[arimareiji]

I'd missed that -- I didn't notice that it was the same guy, and thought that the wizard was a random ex-Azurite complaining about something that had happened off-screen. Thank you!

Ditto the first time around, tbh. I don't remember how many rereads it took to put two and two together.

(Or in his case, to put 1 and 21 together... when he belatedly remembered an oddball bonus that was rarely relevant.)

[Peelee]

As a plot device, yes, it's very impressive. Artifacts usually do tend to have a bit more of a punch than that though. Especially since I suspect this is a major artifact.

It's plenty of punch. It's just that the punch is for a story and not for a game.

[arimareiji]

It's plenty of punch. It's just that the punch is for a story and not for a game.

Having read one too many TSR novels mass-market paperbacks back in the day, some of which outright described gaming sessions in game mechanics , I can attest that mechanics punch (for punchkins?) and what makes a story effective are not necessarily synonymous.

[Quizatzhaderac]

New idea for monster. Handsitter. They have no native environment and do nothing all day long. They are bored to tears and live in the hope that some day they will be summoned to perform a task to add some variety into their lives. They are so desparate their payment is typically trifling though made up to appear as if valuable. Due to their neediness weirding out the spellcaster summoning them, the summoner suffers a -10 to all charisma checks as long as the Handsitter is performing its task.

Höndzittar

Rather than legs it has two backwards arms, with large oversized palms where it's buttocks would be.

A group is called an Indolence and it's leader, the Sinecure.

They serve the eternal sweepersleeper but don't know what it's agenda is.

Defeats players through their own paranoia. Players will encounter the monster doing absolutely nothing, and make wild assumptions about what it's trick is, ultimately giving up.

[arimareiji]

Höndzittar

Rather than legs it has two backwards arms, with large oversized palms where it's buttocks would be.

A group is called an Indolence and it's leader, the Sinecure.

They serve the eternal sweepersleeper but don't know what it's agenda is.

Defeats players through their own paranoia. Players will encounter the monster doing absolutely nothing, and make wild assumptions about what it's trick is, ultimately giving up.

I can't believe you didn't go for the joke of a group of them being a committee.

...although perhaps that should be a group of Thumbsitters?

[Quizatzhaderac]

I can't believe you didn't go for the joke of a group of them being a committee.

The junior members don't attend the regular committee meetings, they only attend the all hands meetings.

[arimareiji]

The junior members don't attend the regular committee meetings, they only attend the all hands meetings.

Truly, that pun is almost worthy of the

Spoiler: groan of ultimate suffering.

Show

(^_~)

[Dame_Mechanus]

As a plot device, yes, it's very impressive. Artifacts usually do tend to have a bit more of a punch than that though. Especially since I suspect this is a major artifact.

Artifacts also tend to be dangled in front of players as a reward that can eventually be obtained with a great deal of power. It doesn't seem to me like anyone else wants the Crimson Mantle, and frankly if you want to assume it's also providing various other nice benefits to Redcloak to supplement his own abilities, there's not really an argument against it. But it doesn't seem like the thing would suddenly become more important if he mentions it gives him +5 to all saves.

Especially since, you know, Redcloak is going to pass or fail save based on the needs of the story, not a roll of the dice.

[bunsen_h]

What is my purpose?
-You pass the butter.
-HURRAY!
-Sheesh, you have issues!

Reminds me of the toaster from Red Dwarf.

As a plot device, yes, it's very impressive. Artifacts usually do tend to have a bit more of a punch than that though. Especially since I suspect this is a major artifact.

That's hard to call. It's the only known artifact/creation of TDO, who's a new god. In story terms, one could justify its having any kind of power level.

Classically, artifacts tend to have unpleasant side effects from long-term use or when a major power is invoked. Have we seen anything like that from the Mantle?

Höndzittar

Rather than legs it has two backwards arms, with large oversized palms where it's buttocks would be.

If it can find its butt with both hands better than, say, 12 times out of 20, it would be more effective than several people I've had to deal with.

[brian 333]

If it can find its butt with both hands better than, say, 12 times out of 20, it would be more effective than several people I've had to deal with.

That's how you know which ones are worthy of promotion. Those that can, at least occasionally, find their buttocks with both hands are too good at their job to promote, and those that can't won't reduce productivity by being moved up the corporate ladder.

Another indicator of promotability: a large mouth eternally pursed into a 'kiss'. Such creatures are virtually certain to be committee members.

[Fyraltari]

Classically, artifacts tend to have unpleasant side effects from long-term use or when a major power is invoked. Have we seen anything like that from the Mantle?

Well, it has esentially stunted Redcloak's emotional growth.

[Larsaan]

Considering Redcloak was a fresh initiate before he put the Mantle on, and was throwing out mid-level spells immediately afterwards, it's safe to say it has some kind of spellcaster-boosting property.

[Thermophille]

A lot of artifacts have per-day castings of mid level spells, and while they tend to be unimpressive for high-level wielders, these abilities are very powerful in the hands of low-level wielders.

[danielxcutter]

Considering Redcloak was a fresh initiate before he put the Mantle on, and was throwing out mid-level spells immediately afterwards, it's safe to say it has some kind of spellcaster-boosting property.

He did? I do think it boosted his Destruction domain ability at least... Or it could use a fixed number of spells X times per day, like a lot of items do in 3.5e I guess? But yeah, I do kinda think that it's probably doing more than the direct plot progression abilities, even if they aren't really something you'd know by looking at the comic.

Just my headcanon I guess.