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2022-08-17, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Aliens in the Oort? one possible explanation of the Fermi paradox.
Well, it depends on technology level. Launching a generation ship with today's technology would be a very bad idea, certainly, but what about a century from now in a hypothetically nanofabricated, 3D-printed, AI-mediated accelerated future? Then things start to look rather different. It also depends on how far you're going compared to human lifespan. If the course is a 60-year journey a single dictator can control society on a ship the entire time (and with fairly modest life-extension tech you can stretch this to 80 or 100 years).
Also, it's perfectly possible to launch a generation ship below capacity, which allows for economic and population growth within the system without straining resources. You'd certainly want more people on arrival at a new planet than at departure. This is really the same principle as using cryogenics to haul a 'colony population' while a small maintenance crew actually runs the ship.
Going more broadly, one reason to raise the issue of generation ships is that a starship traveling at 0.1c is feasible within our understanding of physics and engineering. It would be huge, ridiculously expensive, and all sorts of other messes to build, but some kind of fusion rocket operating at that speed is at least plausible. Certainly sending machines from star to star at that speed is viable, even if making a ship large enough to safely transport humans is more challenging. As such it's possible to consider travel time from star to star in decades, but less than that pushes hard on the bounds of the possible.
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2022-08-17, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Aliens in the Oort? one possible explanation of the Fermi paradox.
I suppose it could be ok if you had a ship like the Axiom from Wall-E, but then that raises the converse question of why you would ever land, except maybe briefly to refuel if you were dependent of uranium or whatever.
Getting on AND getting off would be limited to a specific window of technological advancement
The journey itswlf doesn't last most of your lifetime in that situation. Plus, you're still in meaningful contact with earth; IIRC the transmission time for to send a signal from Mars to Earth and back maxes out at like an hour and a half, which isn't fast compared to what we're used to on the internet but is still way faster than express mail.Last edited by Bohandas; 2022-08-17 at 04:50 PM.
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2022-08-18, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Aliens in the Oort? one possible explanation of the Fermi paradox.
I absolutely agree with this.
But in addition to those with incorrigible wanderlust, some people might be pressured onto the ship as a way for a society to exile malcontents and undesirables while trying to put a good optics spin on the whole deal.
Heck, it worked for the Golgafrinchans.The Cranky Gamer
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2022-08-18, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Aliens in the Oort? one possible explanation of the Fermi paradox.
I think there's a pretty clear multi-stage process. The first stage is to identify some place you actually want to go using telescopes - whether that's colony planets or alien life or whatever. The second is to confirm the data with machine probes. Then the final stage is to find some way to send actual people.
I mean, there's certainly precedents for "send these people far away" or "let's get the hell out of this location, even though the journey might kill us."
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2022-08-18, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Aliens in the Oort? one possible explanation of the Fermi paradox.
Well that works for relativistic ships, but my issue is with generation ships. People would absolutely volunteer to travel to another star system even without an alien ecosystem, but my issue is that far fewer people would be willing to travel partway to another star system and then probably be turned into Soylent Green
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2022-08-18, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Aliens in the Oort? one possible explanation of the Fermi paradox.
That's why I specified short journeys, ones that most of the initial participants could be expected to survive. A generation ship that takes thousands of years is indeed highly unlikely to work. By contrast a ship that takes 80 years, with children born close to destination so they have just entered adulthood upon arrival make significantly more sense. Especially if the destination star system is not immediately habitable - which is likely since compatible garden worlds are going to be incredibly scarce - and some additional decades living on the ship are necessary before planetside or asteroid base habs can be fabricated.
Now ideally you'd send machines ahead to fashion a nice space habitat for the travelers use upon their arrival, but that might be difficult to coordinate.