OOTS #1265 - The Discussion Thread

[TerrickTerran]

It never is the same. That line was fantastic.

[gatemansgc]

As always, Greyview is right. Why are the ads always so *obviously* different from the game? Like, do they think you won't notice the game you're playing appears to have no connection, game-wise, art-style or visually to what the ad claimed?

it's to the point where different developers have made games that actually play like the misleading ads for other games! namely the pull the pin puzzle games.

[Jay R]

What is the point of showing the negotiations at all if they aren't going to matter?

It was funny.

This. Would the people complaining about his wording really have preferred a seventeen-page-long negotiation where every term is carefully defined?

I'm suddenly concerned about what's going to be in the eventual book's bonus strips.

I have absolute faith that Rich could write a seventeen-page-long negotiation where every term is carefully defined, make it entertaining and hilarious, and give it an ending I couldn't predict.

[Werbaer]

Wait wait wait.
So Redcloak is the employer but Xykon is the one accepting the contract?
No way sir. This would be anarchy!

This wasn't about accepting the contract.
Redcloak verbally asked to skip the terms and conditions. Xykon hits the confirmation button after the "are you sure?" reply.

[Jasdoif]

I have absolute faith that Rich could write a seventeen-page-long negotiation where every term is carefully defined, make it entertaining and hilarious, and give it an ending I couldn't predict.

Sure; but seventeen pages of bonus material on a single topic is a tall order, even for a giant. That's more than twice as many pages as recovering Golem Roy!

[arimareiji]

The only thing that could have made this one better? A pop-up window blotting out 80% of the panel, demanding that Redcloak give his Macebook address for news and updates.

~~~

I think Redcloak may have unintentionally boned himself a lot worse than it appears at first glance:

• He says their primary purpose is to speedrun the corridors. Even if the quinton were minded to be helpful... their primary purpose is not to figure anything out. Technically, it's not even to find what they're looking for. Their primary purpose is only to speedrun the corridors until they either find it or check them all. (One could even argue that offering superfluous information gets in the way of speedrunning.)
• He doesn't request that the quinton make them a map or any sort of visual representation. He only requests that the quinton keep track of 1) which doors and 2) what order, plus 3) every room's dimensions and orientation*. Unless he uses some sort of magic that turns the quinton's thoughts into a visual representation, he'll only get exactly the information requested... from which "we" (Team Evil) will make a map.
• In deciding he already knows everything he needs to about the agreement, he doesn't consider the "that doesn't apply" flaw of mentation. I can't count how many times I've forgotten some detail because at the time I heard it, I thought it was unimportant because it didn't apply (or sometimes, because I thought it never would apply).

_{* - If the quinton is being extremely lawful, this even excludes the corridors.}

This is a creature of Law. There is no "spirit of the request" for them.

So much this. And technically, "being more helpful than contractually obligated" is a mildly-Good act.
_{Ymmv whether the deathworm volunteered info out of fear of Hel's wrath, for snacking opportunities, for the lulz, or something else.}

As always, Greyview is right. Why are the ads always so *obviously* different from the game? Like, do they think you won't notice the game you're playing appears to have no connection, game-wise, art-style or visually to what the ad claimed?

Woohoo, another potential member of the Greyview Appreciation Society! I guess we really should work on a defined process for joining. (^_~)

[Grey Watcher]

As always, Greyview is right. Why are the ads always so *obviously* different from the game? Like, do they think you won't notice the game you're playing appears to have no connection, game-wise, art-style or visually to what the ad claimed?

Because by the time you see that, you've already paid for the game, so they don't care how happy you are with it.

[F.Harr]

I like Oona the philosopher. She really cares that you understand that they're metaphors.

I like this creature of law. I think it'll get along with Redcloak famously.

[Ravus]

I have to wonder if the quinton can even realize that the party is being teleported.

If it cannot and it starts mapping overlapping rooms... well, I hear that modrons have interesting reactions to inconsistencies.

[a_flemish_guy]

I have to wonder if the quinton can even realize that the party is being teleported.

If it cannot and it starts mapping overlapping rooms... well, I hear that modrons have interesting reactions to inconsistencies.

quintons can literally teleport to the exact location they want as an at will ability
I've no doubt it'll notice, wether or not it'll think this is crucial information is another question

now thinking meta here: I think this will lead to the discovery of the teleport trick, serini has already confirmed that the gate's somewhere else and as such this will only lead to team evil getting backstage, this is bad but not catastrophicly so, also the I suspect the quinton will leave as it's purpose will be fullfilled and RC will be super pissed that he didn't spot this earlier and has effectively thrown away a big advantage

[ReaderAt2046]

Oh dear gods, so many funny lines in this one! I think zapping the "agree" modron was my favourite, though.

[Ruck]

Oh dear gods, so many funny lines in this one! I think zapping the "agree" modron was my favourite, though.

I don't know why exactly, but a good "Ow!!" in this comic always cracks me up.

[Ortho]

Through sheer coincidence, I was watching the world record speedrun of Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 when I read this page. I laughed out loud at "what the ancients called 'speedrun, any%'".

[Throknor]

How would the Quinton know that Redcloak doesn't know about the dimensional switch? Also he doesn't ask for the dungeons/caves to be mapped - he asks for the rooms' dimensions, not the corridors.

Specifically, he asks:
1) Accompany us while we search the dungeons behind the doors in the canyon
2) Restrain all hostile creatures encountered within.
3) Keep a mental record of which doors were entered and in what order
4) and the physical dimensions and orientation of every visited room.

Making that list I notice there's nothing about telling Redcloak anything at all, at least not voluntarily. He might answer questions like 'did we go through this door', but there's nothing there about hanging around after going through all of the doors to dictate a map.

[KorvinStarmast]

Making that list I notice there's nothing about telling Redcloak anything at all, at least not voluntarily. He might answer questions like 'did we go through this door', but there's nothing there about hanging around after going through all of the doors to dictate a map.

Yes, many loopholes. Just like prophecies. Just like wishes. I am surprised that a sketch of a monkey paw was nowhere in this strip.

[Alex Warlorn]

You think the wizard would be the cube, since they're the smartest one of the three.

[Potatopeelerkin]

Because by the time you see that, you've already paid for the game, so they don't care how happy you are with it.

The games which do this are free-to-play mobile games. If you do this in a game you have to pay for, you'll run afoul of advertising laws. Free-to-play games are only allowed to do it because they're technically not selling you anything.

As always, Greyview is right. Why are the ads always so *obviously* different from the game? Like, do they think you won't notice the game you're playing appears to have no connection, game-wise, art-style or visually to what the ad claimed?

My understanding is that a non-insubstantial amount of players continue to play even once they've realised the game is completely different to the ad (they might even forget what the ad was in the first place), and it's easier to lure players in by trickery and then hope they'll stay than to honestly get them to download another Bejeweled/Candy Crush clone.

[Wowlock]

Question: Would those helpers turn on Redcloak and co if they learn about what they are actually seeking and risking potential end of EVERYTHING? I don't think Lawful beings would be ok with messing with the gates and something like Snarl.

[Peelee]

The games which do this are free-to-play mobile games. If you do this in a game you have to pay for, you'll run afoul of advertising laws.

Oh, to live in the wonderful world of Australia. Sadly, I can only visit vicariously by watching the famed Aussie documentary Bluey.

[danielxcutter]

While the very existence of the quinton here is likely going to help Team Evil figure it out one way or another, I think that Redcloak's smart enough that he'd start to figure it out once they've mapped some or all of the place to ask it things that would allow him to piece it together. The Quinton might not provide this knowledge up front - even ignoring the "letter of the law" thing it really doesn't know much about the situation so there'd be a limit to that even if it wanted to - but there's no reason for it to not provide it either. Especially since one of the specifically requested tasks was "remember the size and shape of the rooms".

In other words, it probably won't solve the puzzle for Redcloak, but the nature of the task means that there's a good chance of it providing knowledge that would help him figure it out on his own.



Also, I wonder if the Quinton would refuse the task if it knew what Team Evil's specific goal was. The secret nature of the Snarl lore probably means the gods haven't outright blacklisted TDO's followers from summoning outsiders, but "aid in a task that has the risk of unmaking the multiverse" just might go against its core nature. The Snarl being a chaotic mess of quiddity strings probably doesn't help, either.

[drDunkel]

Redcloak better know the cartographic symbol for a teleport, or ask for the map to have a legend bar.

[Potatopeelerkin]

Oh, to live in the wonderful world of Australia. Sadly, I can only visit vicariously by watching the famed Aussie documentary Bluey.

Not that I love the US' consumer laws, but I think the US has similar rules about misleading advertising (the FTC Act, from some cursory googling?). That's why mobile game ads are so infamous in a way that other platforms are not.

It is pretty nice over here though. I can confirm, we are all secretly blue dogs.

[Edric O]

The banter between Greyview and the quinton is going to be glorious.

[Ruck]

Oh, to live in the wonderful world of Australia. Sadly, I can only visit vicariously by watching the famed Aussie documentary Bluey.

I went once, many years ago. It was fun. I drank my first flat white and I ate kangaroo. Plus I made some money.

Also, I wonder if the Quinton would refuse the task if it knew what Team Evil's specific goal was. The secret nature of the Snarl lore probably means the gods haven't outright blacklisted TDO's followers from summoning outsiders, but "aid in a task that has the risk of unmaking the multiverse" just might go against its core nature. The Snarl being a chaotic mess of quiddity strings probably doesn't help, either.

I wonder if the Quinton would even understand the goal. I mean, obviously if it was explained to them, but since the Outsiders get mind-wiped I'm guessing they wouldn't even know about the Snarl. Without knowing that-- and obviously without Redcloak going to the lengths of explaining "we're going to perform a magic ritual to weaponize a god-killing abomination"-- even giving the modrons as much detail as "seize this magical Gate for my god's purpose" probably isn't objectionable.

[Crimsonmantle]

There are many possible ways this can play out exactly but TE not understanding there's something seriously wrong with the dungeon layout is not one of them.

Also, Reddie's more suspicious of the MitD (more observant of its words in the last few strips) then he let on earlier.

[a_flemish_guy]

You think the wizard would be the cube, since they're the smartest one of the three.

I think the cube is a duodrone rather then a quadrone as it doesn't have wings (then again tridrones are normally inverted pyramids rather then cones but it's the only modron who kind of looks like a triangle)

[drDunkel]

Just noticed that the quinton has had the hand of the “tail arm” behind its back, Tarquin style, since Redcloak skipped the chanting of the ESLA.

[brian 333]

~~~
Woohoo, another potential member of the Greyview Appreciation Society! I guess we really should work on a defined process for joining. (^_~)

I considered working on this, but realized that since we are all destined for icy jaws of death, I might instead get treat and let fan club worry about itself.

[InvisibleBison]

Also, Reddie's more suspicious of the MitD (more observant of its words in the last few strips) then he let on earlier.

I don't think Redcloak is suspicious of MitD. He blames MitD for messing up the paint, but he thinks that was due to incompetence, not malice.

[Dragonus45]

The punchline is funny, but it feels a little more like the kind of short term pop culture reference that the strip doesn't do as often. Not sure how it will age.