OOTS #1265 - The Discussion Thread

[Laurentio III]

The punchline is funny, but it feels a little more like the kind of short term pop culture reference that the strip doesn't do as often. Not sure how it will age.

You are on the internet by no less that 15 years, so I don't understand why you consider this a "short term" reference.
It's old as smartphone apps, and not going to end in the near future.

[Peelee]

The punchline is funny, but it feels a little more like the kind of short term pop culture reference that the strip doesn't do as often. Not sure how it will age.

You are on the internet by no less that 15 years, so I don't understand why you consider this a "short term" reference.
It's old as smartphone apps, and not going to end in the near future.

In Futurama, there's an episode (A Bicyclops Built for Two) where the characters log onto the internet. Fry exclaims in shock, "my god! It's full of ads!" This episode aired in 2000.

It is left as an exercise to the reader to determine how well the OotS ad joke age.

[toughluck]

Put it another way, Redcloak stated a perfectly reasonable set of parameters based on the assumption that each door is leading to a physical locale directly within the cliff face. This is an incorrect assumption, but he doesn't know that, and the quintus is in no way obligated or inclined to provide him with extra services beyond that which Redcloak has requested.

First of all, amazing call with the username, considering you signed up over a month before the strip with the summoned Quintus.

Second, I think that Redcloak already realized long ago that he's being teleported around, he just doesn't realize when the teleport is happening and how. After clearing out several dozen (or several hundred) dungeons, you would notice that it's impossible for all of them to be in the same location because they don't leave any room to change direction if at least some of them aren't just single rooms.

Remember that Redcloak is paranoid, he doesn't know how much modrons know and/or don't know, so he will not share any details that might give the Quintus an idea of what they're looking for.

Having said all of that, it seems entirely possible that Redcloak will realize this, and it seems a given to me that the quintus will be aware of these facts but simply not note them as it was not related to the terms laid out. It may request additional payment for the additional services or it may not.

If Redcloak is already aware of the teleport, he just needs the Quintus to give him a map and thinks that once he has a map, he'll figure out where the teleport is and how it's working. But Redcloak won't ask the modron what he thinks and Redcloak will ignore anything useful the Quintus might tell him simply because he considers himself a superior intellect that doesn't need any help from anyone other than what's explicitly stated (like needing an arcane caster).

[TheNecrocomicon]

In Futurama, there's an episode (A Bicyclops Built for Two) where the characters log onto the internet. Fry exclaims in shock, "my god! It's full of ads!" This episode aired in 2000.

It is left as an exercise to the reader to determine how well the OotS ad joke age.

The current strip strikes me as the sort of punchline that wouldn't have necessarily worked (or at least not so well) in the era when OotS was a new webcomic, but it does today.

Like, yes, we had internet ads including pop-ups, but smartphones, streaming, etc. were in their infancy at best.

[Oromin]

I feel like Redcloak is going to figure it out whether the quinton spells it out explicitly or not. The fact that he asked for the room geometry suggests he already has an inkling that something doesn't make sense. He's been tunnel visioned on clearing the dungeons, but when the math is thrown in his face I think he'll figure it out.

[danielxcutter]

I wonder if the Quinton would even understand the goal. I mean, obviously if it was explained to them, but since the Outsiders get mind-wiped I'm guessing they wouldn't even know about the Snarl. Without knowing that-- and obviously without Redcloak going to the lengths of explaining "we're going to perform a magic ritual to weaponize a god-killing abomination"-- even giving the modrons as much detail as "seize this magical Gate for my god's purpose" probably isn't objectionable.

Well yeah, that vague would probably be okay for it. There’s a good chance TDO is LE anyways. I meant “if it specifically knew what precisely Team Evil’s goal was” though.

[JonahFalcon]

At least the ad wasn't a political ad. "President Primus - doing a good job? Let us know!"

[durron597]

So.... not asking the Quinton to just legend lore? Maybe he doesn't want the Quinton to know what they're looking for, and they are afraid if he casts legend lore it will betray his core purpose?

[Quizatzhaderac]

At least the ad wasn't a political ad. "President Primus - doing a good job? Let us know!"

Single, 18+ adventurers in your area are looking to party with you!

[Dragonus45]

You are on the internet by no less that 15 years, so I don't understand why you consider this a "short term" reference.
It's old as smartphone apps, and not going to end in the near future.

In Futurama, there's an episode (A Bicyclops Built for Two) where the characters log onto the internet. Fry exclaims in shock, "my god! It's full of ads!" This episode aired in 2000.

It is left as an exercise to the reader to determine how well the OotS ad joke age.

It just felt a little specific to what mobile ads look like right now as opposed to just making a joke about ads in general. If nothing else it stands out a since it's not the usual.

Who wants to bet the EULA on Modron summoning changed recently and Redcloak just made a terrible error.

[Peelee]

It just felt a little specific to what mobile ads look like right now as opposed to just making a joke about ads in general. If nothing else it stands out a since it's not the usual.

Id agree, except if mobile ad formats change it'll still come across as an ad joke, just not a recognizable-as-a-niche one.

[faustin]

I'm curious, which is the typical payment to Primus agents for such a task?

[bunsen_h]

Yes, many loopholes. Just like prophecies. Just like wishes. I am surprised that a sketch of a monkey paw was nowhere in this strip.

That was the supposed fifth arm of the quinton in the previous page.

Second, I think that Redcloak already realized long ago that he's being teleported around, he just doesn't realize when the teleport is happening and how. After clearing out several dozen (or several hundred) dungeons, you would notice that it's impossible for all of them to be in the same location because they don't leave any room to change direction if at least some of them aren't just single rooms.

The setup is physically possible with no dimensional / teleporting shenanigans whatsoever. All that's needed is for the dungeons to have long corridors between the door and the rooms, so they can spread outwards and downwards from the cliff face.

We also know that the area is composed of "dimensional stone", whose properties are unknown. Some forumites have suggested that it means nothing more than that there's a mass of stone in the corresponding space on the ethereal plane, which would be sufficient to block effects like ghostform travel. My take is that it's involved in the packing of the rooms into a too-small volume and the trap lines at the doors: a single effect with multiple useful consequences.

Single, 18+ adventurers in your area are looking to party with you!

Our party is too low-level; a level 18+ addition would preclude our getting XP.

[a_flemish_guy]

So.... not asking the Quinton to just legend lore? Maybe he doesn't want the Quinton to know what they're looking for, and they are afraid if he casts legend lore it will betray his core purpose?

that's not a maybe, the quinton explicitly asks what they're searching for and RC told him that he doestn't need to know that

also I'm not sure how much legend lore will help here, yes it fits the requirements but the less people know about it the less details legend lore can give you and the gates and the scribbles themselves have been fairly succesfull at keeping all of this under wraps
I think if you want anything usefull to show up with legend lore it'd require the quinton to understand that he's looking at part of a whole which would require telling him about the other gates and I think that's a situation which RC definitly wants to avoid

[a_flemish_guy]

I'm curious, which is the typical payment to Primus agents for such a task?

standard payments for outsiders
1) gold or magic items to apropriate temples (I don't kow how much nodroms care about that)
2) gifts to the creature itself (I don't think any non-corrupted modrons have things that can be described as wants outside of doing their job)
3) actions that'll help it's cause (for a modron this could be for example the deaths of various chaotic creatures)

so yeah, I'm curious as well what the required payment will be

[bunsen_h]

also I'm not sure how much legend lore will help here, yes it fits the requirements but the less people know about it the less details legend lore can give you and the gates and the scribbles themselves have been fairly succesfull at keeping all of this under wraps

If a construction crew was involved in hiding the gate, there may be lurking information about its location. We know that a construction crew built Dorukan's dungeon, and we saw Serini taking delivery of a crate of monsters.

standard payments for outsiders
[...]
3) actions that'll help it's cause (for a modron this could be for example the deaths of various chaotic creatures)

so yeah, I'm curious as well what the required payment will be

Destruction of Xykon, after his role in the ritual is finished..?

[Quizatzhaderac]

In hyper lawful news, I'm worried the Redcloak said "Skip!" four times, when he only wanted to skip twice. What horrible (or tedious) things might have been skipped.

I'm curious, which is the typical payment to Primus agents for such a task?

I've heard energon crystals would be optimal for Primus.

[elros]

OOTS has had several instances where characters have their requests backfire because of loopholes in how they asked them. I am not sure if the Giant plans on the Quinton seeing the teleport and not mention it, or if he intends to have the Quinton inform Team Evil.
Either way, I hope it moves the plot along.

[HalfTangible]

It seems most likely to me that the Quinton will note the teleportation effect after searching several doors. Either that, or it will search the teleported area of one door and then ask if it should also investigate the "real" tunnel.

After all, it doesn't know what Redcloak is looking for, so for all it knows their target could be located in one of the teleported-to rooms. But figuring out the trick does move the plot along to its next beat faster than having it search every door and only THEN telling Redcloak about the teleportation.

[danielxcutter]

The setup is physically possible with no dimensional / teleporting shenanigans whatsoever. All that's needed is for the dungeons to have long corridors between the door and the rooms, so they can spread outwards and downwards from the cliff face.

We also know that the area is composed of "dimensional stone", whose properties are unknown. Some forumites have suggested that it means nothing more than that there's a mass of stone in the corresponding space on the ethereal plane, which would be sufficient to block effects like ghostform travel. My take is that it's involved in the packing of the rooms into a too-small volume and the trap lines at the doors: a single effect with multiple useful consequences.

And I think you're reading into this too much. It's made fairly explicit that the swapovers might as well be capable of sending people who cross over... basically anywhere else on the Material. Also, if it was basically a Dungeon of Holding I think that would have pinged on the Detect Magic.

[Rinazina]

Dear all,

I'm surprised by you forumites, I haven't read any mechanistic rumination.

i.e. despite the fact that Quinton can produce "wall of force" at will, could Sunny's eye still dissolve them? the magical destruction effect of Roy's sword, should it break WoF?

what I fear most, is that hem* might spam clairvoyance/claroudience into hem path, and cause to our side to lose surprise?

also, hem has access to Cleric spells in "Law, War, and Protection" domains. I'm not sure which spell levels, but if I'm interpreting the CR (14) correctly, it means access to seventh level spells like Dictum, Repulsion, Power Word (Blind), and I'm frankly afraid for my beloved PCs and NPCs.

Certainly blackwing will bring back the problem, but how much, the LSSOOOTS will be ready to counter? exciting!


* hem: he/she, but for Modrons

[Jasdoif]

It seems most likely to me that the Quinton will note the teleportation effect after searching several doors. Either that, or it will search the teleported area of one door and then ask if it should also investigate the "real" tunnel.

After all, it doesn't know what Redcloak is looking for, so for all it knows their target could be located in one of the teleported-to rooms. But figuring out the trick does move the plot along to its next beat faster than having it search every door and only THEN telling Redcloak about the teleportation.

I'm imagining it going like this, at a suitably dramatic moment:

"Wait. Why is this room on your projection differently colored?"
⚙️: "That is not a room, that is a region overlapped by two rooms from the baseline observation point."
"How is that possible?"
⚙️: "The end points of the respective teleportation effects are necessarily not aligned with respect--"
"Teleportation?!?! When have we been teleporting?"
⚙️: "Each doorway contains a spacial translocation zone."
"And you didn't think to tell me?"
⚙️: "You necessarily traversed one to get to the location where you summoned me."
"And that means I was supposed to know?"
⚙️: "Are you not familiar with Gear'rdus Mercator's Treatise on Higher-Dimensional Topology?"
"...you thought it was obvious we were exploring a teleportation-linked complex, because we were inside a teleportation-linked complex."
⚙️: "Correct."

(Unicode gear emoji not to scale, probably.)

[danielxcutter]

Dear all,

I'm surprised by you forumites, I haven't read any mechanistic rumination.

i.e. despite the fact that Quinton can produce "wall of force" at will, could Sunny's eye still dissolve them? the magical destruction effect of Roy's sword, should it break WoF?

what I fear most, is that hem* might spam clairvoyance/claroudience into hem path, and cause to our side to lose surprise?

also, hem has access to Cleric spells in "Law, War, and Protection" domains. I'm not sure which spell levels, but if I'm interpreting the CR (14) correctly, it means access to seventh level spells like Dictum, Repulsion, Power Word (Blind), and I'm frankly afraid for my beloved PCs and NPCs.

Certainly blackwing will bring back the problem, but how much, the LSSOOOTS will be ready to counter? exciting!


* hem: he/she, but for Modrons

First of all, "they" is probably enough, though most sources tend to use "it".

Second, Wall of Force is explicitly indestructible if it's not one of the explicit abilities that can pop it. Sunny's antimagic cone and disintegration ray would work(as would the Disintegration spell). Roy's magic sword doesn't do jack unless he's taken like ten levels including one in an epic prestige class since the last time we saw him or if his sword has a property similar to an Angelwing Razor(which it isn't depicted as, likely a good thing as said artifacts are made by honing the edges on the wings of captive celestials).

Third, CR is Challenge Rating. It has nothing directly to do with caster level. If you've got a source, it probably lists what level of cleric casting a Quinton has access to. Also, it's not contracted for helping Team Evil against the Order anyways.

I don't know where your sources are from anyways - five quatloos says that it's from dandwiki, which is notoriously full of homebrew, since I don't think there's been any official supplement in 3.x with Modron statblocks.

[Jasdoif]

I don't know where your sources are from anyways - five quatloos says that it's from dandwiki, which is notoriously full of homebrew, since I don't think there's been any official supplement in 3.x with Modron statblocks.

Modrons appear in one of the web enhancements for the 3.0 Manual of the Planes. You can keep your quatloos, if you like.

[danielxcutter]

Modrons appear in one of the web enhancements for the 3.0 Manual of the Planes. You can keep your quatloos, if you like.

Got a link? Can't seem to find it.

[Jasdoif]

Got a link? Can't seem to find it.

Ooh neat, archive.org backed up the zipped PDF from WotC's 3.x pages.

[Rinazina]

Second, Wall of Force is explicitly indestructible if it's not one of the explicit abilities that can pop it. Sunny's antimagic cone and disintegration ray would work(as would the Disintegration spell). Roy's magic sword doesn't do jack unless he's taken like ten levels including one in an epic prestige class since the last time we saw him or if his sword has a property similar to an Angelwing Razor(which it isn't depicted as, likely a good thing as said artifacts are made by honing the edges on the wings of captive celestials).

ok thanks, this means Sunny is going to have a seriously big target painted over heb (he/she but for beholder? ) back

Third, CR is Challenge Rating. It has nothing directly to do with caster level. If you've got a source, it probably lists what level of cleric casting a Quinton has access to. Also, it's not contracted for helping Team Evil against the Order anyways.

I checked the 3.x source, and, when I read "as a 20th-level cleric". I normally expect is the Caster Level for Dispelling purposes, not descriptive of the number of spell slots and spell known. but I never played a 3.x so please let me know.

If the Team Evil has such arsenal now with an expense of 1000px from R.C. it seems to be a very good investment for a little bald man

[danielxcutter]

I checked the 3.x source, and, when I read "as a 20th-level cleric". I normally expect is the Caster Level for Dispelling purposes, not descriptive of the number of spell slots and spell known. but I never played a 3.x so please let me know.

If the Team Evil has such arsenal now with an expense of 1000px from R.C. it seems to be a very good investment for a little bald man

No, it really means that it has the casting abilities of a 20th-level cleric. Ironically, this thing is even better at casting Cleric spells than its summoner.

[HalfTangible]

"...you thought it was obvious we were exploring a teleportation-linked complex, because we were inside a teleportation-linked complex."
⚙️: "Correct."

I mean when he puts it like that...

[Eric the White]

The punchline is funny, but it feels a little more like the kind of short term pop culture reference that the strip doesn't do as often. Not sure how it will age.

I like the unbridled optimism that ads are going away sometime soon!