What Are you Playing 7: Deadly Sims

[Cespenar]

Oh the art is beautiful, yes.

Since I've never played a Dark Eye game as tabletop, is the "crapsack, ungrateful world" attitude just as prevalent there as well? Because after saving the day in Chains, Geron gets crapped on a LOT by NPCs...

I think I played the CRPG Drakensang(?) back in the day, which had more of a generic fantasy air. This adventure series is as crapsack as it can be though, yeah.

[LibraryOgre]

I realize that when I play "Minecraft", I am really playing "Housing and Urban Development, with Legos."

I find a village. I set up shop (sometimes making my own, sometimes stealing from a local), and the proceed to improve the town. Build stairs everywhere. Make work tables and set them up, then start boosting local businesses by levelling up the craftsmen. This requires raw materials, so I delve deep underground. Then, eventually, I either
1) Get bored, because the town is good
or
2) Die horribly while exploring (to a fall, since I'm on peaceful)

Sometimes, I make new houses.

[Zombimode]

Since I've never played a Dark Eye game as tabletop, is the "crapsack, ungrateful world" attitude just as prevalent there as well? Because after saving the day in Chains, Geron gets crapped on a LOT by NPCs...

Aventurien, the world of DSA (Dark Eye), is a lot of things but "crapsack, ungrateful world" are not prevalent themes as far as I can tell. You can definitely tell dark stories in this world. But it is not a dominating theme in the tabletop publications.

For the "ungrateful" part you could make an argument that this is connected to the wider DSA culture as there is a negative stereotype regarding DSA GMs (and published adventures advising them to) that they tend to keep the player characters small instead of letting them be the Big Damn Heroes.
I'm not convinced that the fate of Geron in Chains is a reflection of that, because a) I think it is a slightly different issue and b) there is a much simpler explanation for why Chains is the way it is.

The DSA video games are pretty divers in tone. Consider the old Nordland-Trilogie (Realms of Arkania) on the one hand, the Drakensang games on another, Blacksguards on yet another and the two Daedalic adventure on yet another hand. All of them complete different form each other in tone. So the individual game developers preferences play a big role.

And that is in my view the actual reason: Chains and Memoria are as dark as they are because that was the kind of game Daedalic were making at that time.


Although in comparison I found Memoria to be much tamer then Chains which in turn was downright depressing. By the end of Chains I was in tears.

[Wookieetank]

I realize that when I play "Minecraft", I am really playing "Housing and Urban Development, with Legos."

I alternate between this, and setting up the dwarfiest underground compounds I can think up that are completely self sufficient without having to go topside (post initial seed and sapling gathering). Works best when I can play with others and trade for things.

[Cygnia]

I've got Blackguards on my Steam log, but I'm not ready to play it yet. Loved how snarky Iratus was and I really wish Daedalic would do a follow-up to Night of the Rabbit (as they teased at the end of that particular game).

But yeah, for Geron and Nuri's storyline, it's pretty damn bitter. Mind you (and I don't know if it's the fault of the writing or the voice actors) I never really got the sense of "love" between the two even before

Spoiler: spoiler

Show

the forgetfulness permanently strikes Nuri

.

But if Daedalic ever follows up what Sadja does now in the aftermath of Memoria, I'd be curious to see...

[Zombimode]

But yeah, for Geron and Nuri's storyline, it's pretty damn bitter. Mind you (and I don't know if it's the fault of the writing or the voice actors) I never really got the sense of "love" between the two even before

I take you didn't play it in german, then?
For me the subtext was pretty clear. But sure, the game can be subtle at times, and subtlety is easy to become lost in translation.

[Cygnia]

English here. My knowledge of other languages is woefully inadequate (outside of food).

[warty goblin]

Blackguards is more than a bit rough round the edges, but it's a pretty solid tactics game. DSA is crunchy as all getout, and the conversion here is pretty faithful, which gives a substantial amount of depth to things. You can also see Daedalic's adventure game background shining through, as the environment is unusually interactive for an RPG, particularly of this period.

It's also a bit odd feeling from an American perspective, mostly due to the very different emphasis on magic. DSA mages are noy great at damage dealing, have to focus on a couple spells to advance, and are much more multiple attribute dependent than anything you see come out of D&D style games. This doesn't make a spellcaster useless or underpowered, but they cannot dominate the game.

[Rynjin]

English here. My knowledge of other languages is woefully inadequate (outside of food).

It's a funny experience trying to read German as someone who also doesn't speak German, because I can usually get most of the way through a paragraph with solid comprehension before suddenly coming across a word that isn't immediately apparent from context or being similar to English.

[Zombimode]

Speaking of languages: I've just started A Plague Tale: Innocence. A french game set in 14th century France.
If I could I would play it in french. But I can't. I struggle with pronouncing the names of the wines I have in my cellar, playing a game in french is pretty much out of the question.

I'm left to choose between english and german and I chose german because why not. So far lines and voice acting are adequate but could be better.

Any experience with the english localization?

It's also a bit odd feeling from an American perspective, mostly due to the very different emphasis on magic. DSA mages are noy great at damage dealing, have to focus on a couple spells to advance, and are much more multiple attribute dependent than anything you see come out of D&D style games. This doesn't make a spellcaster useless or underpowered, but they cannot dominate the game.

True, if the spellcaster in question is a player character. NPCs on the other hand... *cough*Archon Megalon*cough*Kobolde in general*cough*Borbarad*cough*

[Rynjin]

The English cast and performances are quite good, retaining the French accents and being overall solid to listen to.

Then for some reason in the sequel everyone swaps to having a British accent even though the actors are the same. Utterly baffling.

TBF the latter is the actors' natural accent, so maybe it's to produce a better performance? But I thought they were fine in the first game and the switch is jarring.

[Cygnia]

I didn't have trouble with the voice actors in the first Plague Tale, though, some of the word choices the writers/translators used for the English script were a bit anachronistically jarring at times.

[LibraryOgre]

I alternate between this, and setting up the dwarfiest underground compounds I can think up that are completely self sufficient without having to go topside (post initial seed and sapling gathering). Works best when I can play with others and trade for things.

I'm 100% off-line. Personally, I'd love to see an expansion of villagers... ones who live in underground, for example.

[Anonymouswizard]

I made a dialogue choice I regretted in P3P, rebooted the game, and realised I'd have to grind two of Elizabeth's requests again (a 'defeat strong enemies one' and a 'actually catch a golden shadow' one). Which were annoying enough the first time round, so I'm giving the game a break before I decide if I want to bother doing them again.

But I was still craving Persona, so I caved, checked my bank balance, and actually bought Persona 5 Royal. I'm not sure what to make of it so far, the dungeon exploration is a lot better but I've not got to any of the social link stuff (due to still being on the first Palace), and that's really going to be what places this game on the Persona tier list.the opening and tutorial just drags on and on, ending up something like two hours longer than P4's, and without the option to skip the combat tutorials like you can in P3. What's worse is that at the very beginning you get briefly introduced to the dungeon mechanics, but don't get to fully play around with them for about five or six hours (leading to moments of having to try and stealth before having the ability to hide).

As I've said there's good stuff. Dungeon traversal feels a lot more interactive and dynamic, almost certainly helped by the fact we're not using randomly constructed floors anymore, the return of a more oppressive P3 style atmosphere, the 'ripping off a mask' thing is cool and evocative, and I really appreciate the convince features and starting with a load of costumes (now if the only applied to curscenes I'd definitely but Joker in swim trunks). Oh, and I like the nice touch of Joker's Velvet Room cell having padded walls. On the other hand the game takes a little bit too long to take it's hands off the reigns, including not letting you do stat raising activities for an entire week. Plus I'm fairly certain I'll be disappointed when there's not a single gay romance link again. Not that I dislike the canonical love interest, it's nice that she's been introduced early this time, but more husbandos please!

[tonberrian]

One thing about P5 is that procedurally generated dungeons are not gone, they're just used for the side dungeon, Mementos. Which takes the worst part of Tartarus and makes it harder to see anything. Blessedly the floors are smaller, at least. But it's important since main dungeons can't be returned to once you beat the boss. And if you want the good ending you're gonna have to go through every floor of Mementos eventually.

[SerTabris]

Not that I dislike the canonical love interest, it's nice that she's been introduced early this time, but more husbandos please!

Now I'm curious which character you're reading this way; I didn't see any of them as particularly canonical or even particularly strongly implied by the game.

[tonberrian]

Now I'm curious which character you're reading this way; I didn't see any of them as particularly canonical or even particularly strongly implied by the game.

Thirty quatloos on the new girl for royal, the redhead with a rapier.

[Sermil]

Now I'm curious which character you're reading this way; I didn't see any of them as particularly canonical or even particularly strongly implied by the game.

I don't know about canonical, but the correct choice is introduced pretty early, even if it takes her a little while

Spoiler

Show

to get off her good-girl high horse and onto her motorcycle

.

[Razade]

But I was still craving Persona, so I caved, checked my bank balance, and actually bought Persona 5 Royal. I'm not sure what to make of it so far, the dungeon exploration is a lot better but I've not got to any of the social link stuff (due to still being on the first Palace), and that's really going to be what places this game on the Persona tier list.

In fairness, the dungeons in the other games were randomly generated. Pre-designed dungeons are going to be better to explore than corridors and box shaped rooms pretty much every single time. You'll start to get Confidants pretty quickly, and soon, however.

the opening and tutorial just drags on and on, ending up something like two hours longer than P4's, and without the option to skip the combat tutorials like you can in P3. What's worse is that at the very beginning you get briefly introduced to the dungeon mechanics, but don't get to fully play around with them for about five or six hours (leading to moments of having to try and stealth before having the ability to hide).

Also in fairness, Persona 5 is at least twice the length of Persona 3 and 4, and Royal adds at least tenish more hours on top of that. Persona 5's got a lot of systems in place, a lot more than its predecessors. The opening dungeon wasn't really a tutorial for the dungeon mechanics, but just how to move through dungeons and the game environment as a whole. Also fits the vibes and themes.

One thing about P5 is that procedurally generated dungeons are not gone, they're just used for the side dungeon, Mementos. Which takes the worst part of Tartarus and makes it harder to see anything. Blessedly the floors are smaller, at least. But it's important since main dungeons can't be returned to once you beat the boss. And if you want the good ending you're gonna have to go through every floor of Mementos eventually.

Not just the good ending. The ending period. If you don't, it puts you back so you have to redo it. You have to beat

Spoiler

Show

Demiurge.

Now I'm curious which character you're reading this way; I didn't see any of them as particularly canonical or even particularly strongly implied by the game.

I don't know about canonical, but the correct choice is introduced pretty early, even if it takes her a little while

Spoiler

Show

to get off her good-girl high horse and onto her motorcycle

.

Spoiler: True Love Interest

Show

While there is no canon one by word of Atlus, it's pretty obvious that Makoto is as close to one as there is. The anime and side material around the game also pertty much put this forward.

[Anonymouswizard]

1) great, so the random dungeon floors have returned. I guess I'll be able to suffer through it, but after how well constructed this first Palace has been that's annoying.
2) I'm presuming that like Yukari and Rise, Ann being the Lovers social link is the 'more canon' love interest.

I really should look up the romance options and pick my waifu for this run.

[GloatingSwine]

1) great, so the random dungeon floors have returned. I guess I'll be able to suffer through it, but after how well constructed this first Palace has been that's annoying.
2) I'm presuming that like Yukari and Rise, Ann being the Lovers social link is the 'more canon' love interest.

I really should look up the romance options and pick my waifu for this run.

If you go by arcana symbolism the Lovers actually wouldn't be the canon love interest it would be the High Priestess. It's one of those "none of the arcana are what they obviously represent" things.

That said the social links themselves aren't all that romantically coded so it never feels like there's a "canon" one. (And Strikers does not imply one).

[Mr.Silver]

1) great, so the random dungeon floors have returned. I guess I'll be able to suffer through it, but after how well constructed this first Palace has been that's annoying.
2) I'm presuming that like Yukari and Rise, Ann being the Lovers social link is the 'more canon' love interest.

TBH, ever since FES/P3P added her social link, Aigis is probably the 'more canon' p3 love interest, if it's anyone.

[DigoDragon]

I realize that when I play "Minecraft", I am really playing "Housing and Urban Development, with Legos."

Same honestly. :D

I just managed to get a zombie villager cured and made him a librarian, selling dirt cheap mending books. He also buys squid ink at 1e each, which is too easy to come by. Pretty much set on the money side (and making quick exp).

My only troubles with urban development is that these darn villagers is that despite me placing their jobs outside their houses, they keep moving around and steal each other's beds. Ah well, what ev.

[Anonymouswizard]

If you go by arcana symbolism the Lovers actually wouldn't be the canon love interest it would be the High Priestess. It's one of those "none of the arcana are what they obviously represent" things.

That said the social links themselves aren't all that romantically coded so it never feels like there's a "canon" one. (And Strikers does not imply one).

As I said, I'm mostly going by trends. In vanilla P3 there's pretty major signs Yukari was the originally intended love interest, apparently the reason she's not is the addition of social links where it seems like the Protagonist can't be friends with any women over 15.

Honestly I suspect the Harem Route is actually 'most canon', but as a poly the way Persona handles dating multiple people really pisses me off. It would be more than reasonable for Joker to have everything above board and have at least some of the ROs agree to open relationships, I can even see Joker/Ryuki/Ann as a triad. But no, I've looked it up and apparently it's a route where Joker is a scumbag and gets bailed out by somebody else.

TBH, ever since FES/P3P added her social link, Aigis is probably the 'more canon' p3 love interest, if it's anyone.

I really need to get a playthrough of P3P past November.

[warty goblin]

So Forspoken got mixed enough reviews to be intriguing, and I felt like some magic to mix things up.

First up, we gotta talk writing, mostly because the game starts you off with a big slab of it. Seriously, the game fires off with like 20 minutes of basically walking between cutscenes. I should hate this.

I liked it a lot. There's a fair amount of clunk, but it does a decent job of establishing Frey, the protagonist, as someone who does not trust people, is extremely prickly and defensive, but desperately wants to be accepted. There's one scene where, finally alone, Frey just emotionally falls apart, that I found extremely affecting. Characters in videogames don't do that, they snarl something empty and generic and badass. And this was so raw and genuine to the character and was such a blindside it really nailed me. It also did a huge amount to justify and contextualize why Frey is so unpleasant and sarcastic. She's not supposed to be a witty jerk Aala Tony Stark*, she's a sarcastic pain in the ass to keep people at bay. This makes her somewhst antagonistic relationship with Cuff, the magical, um, cuff, make a lot of sense. She both desires and fears people, and she's got one more or less telepathically stitched into her brain. This is terrifying.

I'd read a lot of complaints about how she is "unlikeable." Well, yes, that's kind of the point, and thank heavens for it. I find her interesting, which is 100 better than likable. A character based around likability tops out at "I wish this cool fake person was my friend" which is both very limiting narratively and the source of buckets of awful self insert fan fiction, but an interesting character makes me think.

But once you finish strolling between cutscenes, there's the combat. You shoot spells at stuff. This looks good and is fun. It's pretty simple, at least so far, but as a wizard power fantasy it's quite solid. It seems pretty easy, even on hard, and I'm good with that.

*(actually just a jerk)

[Cygnia]

Yeah, I'm wondering how many of the mixed reviews are legit concerns versus trolls going "eww, woman of color is the main character!"

[tonberrian]

Canon love interest in P4G is obviously Marie.

Spoiler

Show

As a goddess she's the one who can screw you over the most if you offend her.

[Rynjin]

Yeah, I'm wondering how many of the mixed reviews are legit concerns versus trolls going "eww, woman of color is the main character!"

Most of the reviews hit the barebones combat and cringe dialogue; the latter of which was a focus from the time the last trailer came out, with its "Wow, so THAT'S a thing I do now!" speech.

I don't think anyone gives a **** that she's a PoC, it's not like she'd be the first or anything.

As far as I can tell this is a rare case of critical reviews and user reviews being pretty much in line with each other, which is pretty shocking. Around a 6.5 to 7 review score on average from all sides. It's okay but not great.

[Form]

Regarding Forspoken the issue is probably also the price. It's... rather steep, especially for a game that doesn't appear to be all that great.

[tyckspoon]

That said the social links themselves aren't all that romantically coded so it never feels like there's a "canon" one. (And Strikers does not imply one).

There's like.. two of them where the girl confesses to you, in most of the other ones Joker kind of randomly goes 'hey you wanna be my girlfriend?' and the recipient just responds with 'uh? um. Ok I guess, if you're sure that's what you want.'

Spoiler

Show

Major exceptions with Haru, who is one of the ones who directly confesses/asks Joker to date her .. and who I legitimately felt bad for turning down because her reaction is "oh. I thought.. no, it's ok. I'm.. gonna go cry privately for a while now."
With Ann, because the romance option there isn't really obvious that you're selecting to romance her - the dialogue option that does it is just another one of the 'don't worry, I'll support' you choices that the game has been leading you to select to get more confidant points in every other discussion.
And Makoto, who you spent the last three or four confidant advancement steps performing Be My Pretend Boyfriend Hijinks with, and the romance split is basically "hey, acting like your boyfriend felt really good, do you want to do that for real?" - it's the most 'natural' lead into romancing her out of all the confidants, which I think is a big part of what makes her feel like the intended choice.