Mountain Giant, revised [PEACH]

[kinem]

Mountain Giant, revised

Gargantuan Giant (Earth)
Alignment: Usually chaotic
Initiative: +0; Senses: darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +17, and Spot +17
AC: 35 (-4 size, +29 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 35
Hit Dice: 30d8+420 (555 hp)
Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +23
Speed: 80 ft.
Space / Reach: 20 ft./20 ft.
Base Attack +22; Grapple +54
Attack: Colossal greatclub +34 melee, or slam +34 melee, or rock +34 ranged
Full Attack: Colossal greatclub +34/+29/+24/+19 melee, or 2 slams +34 melee, or rock +35 ranged
Damage: Colossal greatclub 6d8+24/19-20, slam 4d6+16, rock 4d8+16
Special Attacks/Actions: Crush 6d6+24, fling, grapple, rock throwing, trample 6d6+24, summon giants
Abilities: Str 43, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Special Qualities: rock catching, stubborn mind, powerful build, acclimated, cold resistance 10
Feats: Alertness; Awesome Blow; Brutal Throw; Iron Will; Improved Bull Rush; Improved Critical (greatclub); Improved Overrun; Power Attack; Track; Improved Toughness
Epic Feats: Epic Will
Skills: Jump +39, Listen +17, and Spot +17
Advancement: By character class
Climate/Terrain: Any mountains
Organization: Solitary, warlord (1 plus 3-18 hill giants), family (2 plus 1-3 young), or tribe (3-12 plus 2-8 young)
Treasure/Possessions: Standard
Challenge Rating: 19
Level Adjustment: +0

Among the largest giants in existence (though legends speak of even larger giants in ancient times), mountain giants are primitive creatures sometimes given to cruelty and capriciousness, though not all are evil. They take great pleasure in flinging boulders down upon foes, trying to hit them as they flee. Mountain giants often live to be 200 years old. Most are reclusive, especially those with young, and these defend their territory but keep to it. A notorious few attempt to become leaders of smaller giants or even humanoids.

A mountain giant resembles a titanic hill giant, standing more than 40 feet tall and weighing nearly 50,000 pounds. Greasy, jet-black hair frames a face with bulbous features and a skin tone that can be any shade from tan to reddish brown. The typical mountain giant wears only minimal clothing—usually a breechcloth and a shirt made of rough animal hide that barely covers a large pot belly.

A mountain giant’s bag contains 3d4 rocks suitable for throwing, 1d4+2 mundane items, and the giant’s personal wealth. These items tend to be humanoid-made artifacts that the mountain giant considers playthings, such as broken wagons, small huts, and furniture, including tables and beds.

Mountain giants attack in a straightforward manner, stepping forth to overrun opponents whenever possible. They also enjoy picking up foes and hurling them against a mountainside. Many an armed foe has foiled a mountain giant’s initial grab attempt only to be scooped up by the monster’s other hand. In melee, mountain giants use their height to smash their clubs down on the heads of their foes. A mountain giant that feels seriously threatened often uses the summon giants ability to engage its foes with other opponents, then steps back to hurl boulders. Against groups of smaller foes, mountain giants prefer their trample or crush attacks.

Crush (Ex): A mountain giant that jumps at least 20 feet into the air (or jumps down from a height of at least 20 feet) can land on opponents two or more size categories smaller than itself as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the giant's body. (This is normally a 20-foot square, but the giant can instead opt to come down on its seat and cover a 20-foot by 40-foot area, although it then becomes prone.) Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 38) or be pinned, automatically taking 6d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. Thereafter, if the giant chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. While pinned, the opponent takes crush damage each round.

Fling (Ex): A mountain giant that successfully grapples a foe two or more size categories smaller than itself can hurl the creature as a standard action. A flung creature travels up to 120 feet and takes 12d6 points of damage. A creature that is flung off a mountain takes this amount of damage or the appropriate falling damage, whichever is greater. The giant also can throw the flung creature as though it were a boulder. In this case, the flung creature takes 12d6+16 points of damage, and any opponent it strikes takes 4d8+16 points of damage.

Grapple (Ex): If a mountain giant hits an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a slam, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple (grapple bonus +54). If it gets a hold, it can fling the opponent in the next round. Alternatively, the mountain giant has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use one hand to hold the opponent (-20 penalty on grapple check, but the mountain giant is not considered grappled). In either case, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals slam damage.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a mountain giant can trample opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. This attack deals 6d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a -4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 41) for half damage.

Rock Throwing (Ex): An adult giant is an accomplished rock thrower and receives a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls when throwing rocks. A mountain giant can hurl rocks weighing 160 to 200 pounds (Huge objects) with a range increment of 200'.

Rock catching (Ex): A mountain giant can catch rocks of up to Colossal size. Once per round, a giant that would normally be hit by a rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC to catch a rock is based on the rock's size (DC 20 + 5 per size category above Medium). If the projectile has a bonus on attack rolls because of magic, the DC increases by that amount. The giant must be ready for and aware of the attack.

Scent (Ex): A mountain giant can detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

Summon Giants (Sp): Once per day, a mountain giant can summon 1d4+1 hill giants.

Stubborn Mind (Ex): Mountain giants use the good progression for Will saves.

Powerful Build (Ex): The physical stature of a mountain giant lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever one is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A mountain giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A mountain giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.

Acclimated (Ex): Mountain giants are automatically acclimated to life at high altitude. They don't take the penalties for altitude described in the Mountain Travel section. Unlike other denizens of the mountains, they don't lose their acclimation to high altitude even if they spend a long time at a lower elevation.

Young: Young giants are normally noncombatants, but if forced to defend themselves, use the statistics for hill giants. Attacking young giants is an evil act, as is unnecessarily slaying their parents and leaving them to fend for themselves.

[Breccia]

Compared to other CR 17-19 giants (shadow and frost giant jarl) I was able to find, these numbers seem a bit high. He does more damage and has a higher AC than all of them.

Also, level adjustment +0?

My only conceptual question is about Fling. It feels odd that the Fighter being thrown into the Wizard takes more damage than the Wizard. I'd be tempted to have the damage split between the two of them.

[kinem]

Breccia, thanks for the comments.

Compared to other CR 17-19 giants (shadow and frost giant jarl) I was able to find, these numbers seem a bit high. He does more damage and has a higher AC than all of them.

High-CR numbers vary quite a bit, as do high-level PCs' numbers. The Eldritch Giant Confessor (MM3) is comparable at CR 20, but has spellcasting. I could see CR 19, and I'll go with that, but certainly not 20.

Also, level adjustment +0?

What do you think it should be? 30th level PCs vary in power quite a bit, so it's far from an exact science, but it looks in the right range to me. It gets huge bonuses to Str, Con, and natural armor, but little else. Some level 30 builds could make short work of it.

And let's be honest, it's rare enough that people start level 30 games, but almost never any higher, and since the numbers vary so much at that level, it's worth considering another factor: that an ECL over 30 would all but ban it from play.

My only conceptual question is about Fling. It feels odd that the Fighter being thrown into the Wizard takes more damage than the Wizard. I'd be tempted to have the damage split between the two of them.

I didn't change that part from the original MM2 text. I guess the difference is that the wizard can brace for impact and turn his face away from getting smashed, while the fighter is tumbling wildly as he flies through the air.

[Lvl45DM!]

I know this probably isn't what you care about, but they should definitely live longer than 100 years. Cmon, these are primordial beings incarnating some of the longest existing static natural phenomenae.

[kinem]

Interesting point, but mountain giants are basically giant hill giants; stone giants are more elemental. I changed it to 200 years though, to match hill giants.

In general, larger species live longer due to effects of natural selection, but larger individuals of the same species live shorter lives due to rapid growth being biologically related to rapid aging. So if you view them as big hill giants, shorter lives make sense. They are a separate species though, so maybe not.

It does give me an idea, that there could be giant stone giants as well.

[Metastachydium]

Full Attack: Mountain giant club +34/+29/+24/+19 melee, or 2 slams +34 melee, or rock +34 ranged
Damage: Mountain giant club 4d8+24/19-20, slam 2d6+16, rock 4d8+16

Judging by the numbers, this "mountain giant club" is either just a Gargantuan greatclub or a similar but inferior Colossal weapon (creatures with Powerful Build don't tend to shy away from using that Powerful Build). In either case, just giving it a Colossal greatclub (5d8+24, 19–20/×2 with its Improved Critical) would probably serve this thing better.

Crush (Ex): A mountain giant that jumps at least 20 feet into the air (or jumps down from a height of at least 20 feet) can land on opponents two or more size categories smaller than itself as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the giant's body. (This is normally a 20-foot square, but the giant can instead opt to come down on its seat and cover a 20-foot by 40-foot area, although it then becomes prone.) Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 38) or be pinned, automatically taking 2d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. Thereafter, if the giant chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. While pinned, the opponent takes crush damage each round.

These fellers are quite the gentle giants, I have to say. According to the rules, "[f]or each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first", which is to say, an 50000 lb. creature falling from 20' up should deal 251d6 points of damage.

Skills: Jump +39, Listen +17, and Spot +17

Have you considered adding Climb to that list? I'm sure a mountain-dwelling creature could find some use for that.

Young: Young giants are normally noncombatants, but if forced to defend themselves, use the statistics for hill giants. Attacking young giants is an evil act, as is unnecessarily slaying their parents and leaving them to fend for themselves.

Very nice touch!

Level Adjustment: +0

Also, level adjustment +0?

What do you think it should be? 30th level PCs vary in power quite a bit, so it's far from an exact science, but it looks in the right range to me. It gets huge bonuses to Str, Con, and natural armor, but little else. Some level 30 builds could make short work of it.

And let's be honest, it's rare enough that people start level 30 games, but almost never any higher, and since the numbers vary so much at that level, it's worth considering another factor: that an ECL over 30 would all but ban it from play.

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree there. This one's a strong, big bruiser for sure, but at 30 Giant RHD it's a joke. It's simply not something that's worth playing at that level range. It's not an epic level threat, let alone a good basis for an epic level character.

I'll recommend that you make it LA: –. If you want, you can always append a footnote somewhere that it's worth an RLA of -0, but that's about it.

[kinem]

Metastachydium, thanks for the thoughtful comments.

Judging by the numbers, this "mountain giant club" is either just a Gargantuan greatclub or a similar but inferior Colossal weapon (creatures with Powerful Build don't tend to shy away from using that Powerful Build). In either case, just giving it a Colossal greatclub (5d8+24, 19–20/×2 with its Improved Critical) would probably serve this thing better.

I just used the MM2 numbers - which is often not advisable Per the SRD a greatclub 1d10 at Medium becomes a more impressive 6d8 at Colossal.

Using D&D physics as opposed to real physics, it does make more sense to use a Colossal greatclub. I'll also upgrade the Slam damage.

These fellers are quite the gentle giants, I have to say. According to the rules, "[f]or each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first", which is to say, an 50000 lb. creature falling from 20' up should deal 251d6 points of damage.

There is also the note "(to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage)". I am very much of the school of thought that this maximum applies even in the first increment. Hulking Hurler type abuses like the numbers you cite have no place in the game IMO.

Flavorwise, what caps the damage is not the character's ability to bear the weight, but the ability to roll into a ditch, to duck under the part of the falling house that won't hit the ground first, etc. After a certain point, 4 million pounds is the same as 4000 pounds: surviving it means mostly evading it. Just as a sword will kill any man, no matter how skilled, if it goes through his chest. Having lots of hp means he didn't stand there and let it do that. We all know it's not the most realistic combat system, but it works for heroic fantasy.

That said, the Crush section was copied from MM2 again, and there is a lot that isn't clear here. A 20' high jump is DC 80, which most mountain giants can't make. So they are jumping down, and that does mean they take a bit of falling damage too (at least 1d6).

It's safe to assume that those being landed on will only bear a small part of the weight, but 2d6+24 does seem low. I think I'll change it to 4d6+24, the same as Trample.

Have you considered adding Climb to that list? I'm sure a mountain-dwelling creature could find some use for that.

No doubt, but they already get +16 to Climb from Strength, which is all they need.

Very nice touch!

Re: Young. Thanks

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree there. This one's a strong, big bruiser for sure, but at 30 Giant RHD it's a joke. It's simply not something that's worth playing at that level range. It's not an epic level threat, let alone a good basis for an epic level character.

I'll recommend that you make it LA: –. If you want, you can always append a footnote somewhere that it's worth an RLA of -0, but that's about it.

What makes it so much worse than a fighter 30 or barbarian 30? If you have an argument, show me the numbers, but be sure not to include anything cheesy (like Hulking Hurler or Ubercharger) or high-optimization. Of course it won't match up to a caster, but that's not the right comparison.

With PC wealth (4,300,000 gp), PC ability scores, and feat selection, a mountain giant PC would of course be a lot tougher than the basic one.

[Metastachydium]

I just used the MM2 numbers - which is often not advisable

Heh. MM2 worked hard for that reputation!

Per the SRD a greatclub 1d10 at Medium becomes a more impressive 6d8 at Colossal.

Using D&D physics as opposed to real physics, it does make more sense to use a Colossal greatclub. I'll also upgrade the Slam damage.

I don't know why I thought it goe up linearly to 5d8; at any rate, that looks good enough now.

There is also the note "(to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage)". I am very much of the school of thought that this maximum applies even in the first increment.

I've always figured that only caps the excess damage from falling distance, but yeah,

Hulking Hurler type abuses like the numbers you cite have no place in the game IMO.

3.5 is crazy enough without us actively striving to make it crazier yet.

That said, the Crush section was copied from MM2 again, and there is a lot that isn't clear here. A 20' high jump is DC 80, which most mountain giants can't make. So they are jumping down, and that does mean they take a bit of falling damage too (at least 1d6).

It's safe to assume that those being landed on will only bear a small part of the weight, but 2d6+24 does seem low. I think I'll change it to 4d6+24, the same as Trample.

That might still be a bit on the weaksauce side, especially at its CR, but certainly better.

No doubt, but they already get +16 to Climb from Strength, which is all they need.

What makes it so much worse than a fighter 30 or barbarian 30? If you have an argument, show me the numbers, but be sure not to include anything cheesy (like Hulking Hurler or Ubercharger) or high-optimization. Of course it won't match up to a caster, but that's not the right comparison.

With PC wealth (4,300,000 gp), PC ability scores, and feat selection, a mountain giant PC would of course be a lot tougher than the basic one.

No doubt, but straight fighter's not a useful benchmark, especially at this level range, or it is one only insofar as Fighter 30 is the sam kind of trap Giant 30 is. The CR of this thing is much lower than its HD for a reason. It has numbers and not much else. A good speed, a good STR, a decent CON for its size and a couple of weaksauce SAs. It has a touch AC of 6 and a laughable INT score. It has three skills, one of them not super-good and will never have a good number of skill points.

The main difference is that Fighter-based level 30 PC can do a lot of customization through ACFs PrCs and stuff but this critter is literally stuck with its 30 subpar RHD. And considering Fighter little more than sauce for some dipping is hardly cheese-level optimisation. It's pretty much neccessary to stay relevant unless one goes for the crazy stuff you frown upon. Accordingly, a better question might be something more like this: how does an ECL 30 mountain giant character compare to a psychic warrior or totemist or initiator? And, if you ask me, the answer pretty much can't not be poorly.

[kinem]

No doubt, but straight fighter's not a useful benchmark, especially at this level range, or it is one only insofar as Fighter 30 is the sam kind of trap Giant 30 is.

I’m ok with that, if the alternative is to declare it unplayable (LA: -). I think any player who chooses it will already know going in that it’s not an optimal choice power-wise. I think LA: - should be reserved for those cases that can’t work at all as a PC.

[Metastachydium]

I’m ok with that, if the alternative is to declare it unplayable (LA: -). I think any player who chooses it will already know going in that it’s not an optimal choice power-wise. I think LA: - should be reserved for those cases that can’t work at all as a PC.

That's why I suggested giving it no LA and remarking in a footnote that it's RLA -0 material, because that's what RLA -0 is about: you can play it if you want (as if it were LA +0), but it's pretty bad and probably (or, as the case may be, definitely) not worth playing at its ECL.

Assigning LA is notorious for being a poorly implemented (and, perhaps, poorly conceived) method of allowing monstrous races to be played, but if one wants to keep one's homebrewn content compatible with official stuff, one can't just pretend it works in some fashion other than how it actually and officially works. That doesn't mean one can't note that a creature may be suitable as PC material using alternative systems such as RLA, RHDR, DNLA or CR–ECL equivalence or that one cannot make recommendations for DMs who might allow the use of the content in question, but unless a new/variant rule is one's homebrew, arbitrarily altering or disregarding the existing rules is not something I'd deem advisable.

[kinem]

I don’t agree at all that I’d be using it in a way incompatible with the official rules. Quite the contrary: official LAs are usually high, resulting in suboptimal builds. Compare the Hill Giant: CR 7, ECL 16. It’s in core, as official as rules get. How is this any different?

[Morphic tide]

Some bits that get me are the lack of any provocation clause on the "yes it's evil to kill children or leave them orphans" part, given Hill Giant numbers screwing about are fully capable of drastic damage on accident, the basic structure of the game causes big problems for Paladins if leaving orphans is a distinctly Evil act, and that they use Hill Giant verbatim means they somehow lose Climb as a class skill and gain Scent. Plus the "jump-cut" from Large to Gargantuan without a Huge Adolescent somewhere in the 12 CR gap.

Really, the Young make this good Savage progression territory, would allow defining more of the maturation and see how much "easy" space there is to slot in good hooks to compare to at least a Fighter.

...Also, Improved Critical is still specifying a distinct Mountain Giant Club.

[Metastachydium]

I don’t agree at all that I’d be using it in a way incompatible with the official rules. Quite the contrary: official LAs are usually high, resulting in suboptimal builds. Compare the Hill Giant: CR 7, ECL 16. It’s in core, as official as rules get. How is this any different?

The point of comparison you want is storm giant (bad with some nice abilities and 19 HD) and cloud giant (just bad with 17 HD). They have no LA, not even in Savage Species, and if they had one, it wouldn't be +0 for the reason you stated yourself.

[kinem]

Some bits that get me are the lack of any provocation clause on the "yes it's evil to kill children or leave them orphans" part, given Hill Giant numbers screwing about are fully capable of drastic damage on accident,

That's not a Good excuse to kill them.

the basic structure of the game causes big problems for Paladins if leaving orphans is a distinctly Evil act,

No, I completely disagree. Note that it says "unnecessarily". Sometimes it might be necessary to kill the parents in order to protect the party or someone else, but generally it isn't. A non-stupid Paladin will find other options. These giants are territorial and "Most are reclusive, especially those with young, and these defend their territory but keep to it", so if there is a conflict, it's probably due to people intruding into the giants' territory, and the Paladin would probably tell the people to stop doing that. Also note that while these Giants are Usually Chaotic, they have no special tendency to Evil, and might be Good.

and that they use Hill Giant verbatim means they somehow lose Climb as a class skill and gain Scent. Plus the "jump-cut" from Large to Gargantuan without a Huge Adolescent somewhere in the 12 CR gap.

Really, the Young make this good Savage progression territory, would allow defining more of the maturation and see how much "easy" space there is to slot in good hooks to compare to at least a Fighter.

Using the Hill Giant stats is a quick-and-dirty option if stats for the young become necessary, not a definitive guide to Mountain Giant development prior to adulthood. A good DM should not need to be told to make adjustments as appropriate. You are right, it could be a good Savage Progression. If interested, you are certainly welcome to make one.

...Also, Improved Critical is still specifying a distinct Mountain Giant Club.

Thanks, that's been fixed now.

The point of comparison you want is storm giant (bad with some nice abilities and 19 HD) and cloud giant (just bad with 17 HD). They have no LA, not even in Savage Species, and if they had one, it wouldn't be +0 for the reason you stated yourself.

Those don't have LA because epic was all but ignored, not because they were seen as too weak. Stone Giant Elders are ECL 20, the max that was bothered with at the time. The fact that the Cloud Giant at 17 HD isn't given an LA is proof that if it had been given one, it would have been at least ECL 21, thus Epic and thus ignored - much like the Frost Giant Jarl, which in theory should have the same LA as the Frost Giant, but isn't given one because Epic. It is pure neglect and not an example anyone should want to follow.

[Metastachydium]

That's not a Good excuse to kill them.

No, I completely disagree. Note that it says "unnecessarily". Sometimes it might be necessary to kill the parents in order to protect the party or someone else, but generally it isn't. A non-stupid Paladin will find other options. These giants are territorial and "Most are reclusive, especially those with young, and these defend their territory but keep to it", so if there is a conflict, it's probably due to people intruding into the giants' territory, and the Paladin would probably tell the people to stop doing that. Also note that while these Giants are Usually Chaotic, they have no special tendency to Evil, and might be Good.

A BIG +1 to all that.

Those don't have LA because epic was all but ignored, not because they were seen as too weak. Stone Giant Elders are ECL 20, the max that was bothered with at the time. The fact that the Cloud Giant at 17 HD isn't given an LA is proof that if it had been given one, it would have been at least ECL 21, thus Epic and thus ignored - much like the Frost Giant Jarl, which in theory should have the same LA as the Frost Giant, but isn't given one because Epic. It is pure neglect and not an example anyone should want to follow.

That's fair, and yes, WotC over-LAs everything, while no LA's often enough a shorthand for "this one's way too cool for you to play" (no WotC, the green hag really isn't). Still, if we take a quick look at some other books, such as BoED (one of the first 3.5 books) and FF (the -1^st 3.5 book, so to say) we encounter… Interesting things. The former has throne archons (14 HD, LA +10), shiradi (12 HD, LA +12) and tulani (18 HD, LA +10) while the latter includes the infamous sillit nerra (7 HD, LA +18), the aurumach (16 HD, LA +9) and the yuan-ti anathema (22 HD, LA +6) – as well as two giants, the bog giant (at 8 HD) and the shadow giant (at 18 HD), neither of which has a listed LA, and even keeping in mind how WotC routinely oversold high STR scores, I'm not sure a case can be made for the giants being more powerful than an exemplar or an überyuan-ti.

TL;DR: I cannot stop you from statting up your critters the way you would do it and do not wish to do so either; still, all that I know about WotC LAs (and RLAs) tells me that in an official book, this would never get a +0 rather than a — or (indeed) a higher number (and that while solid in its category, this is RLA -0 material).

[kinem]

I was inspired by recent MG-related threads to revise the MG once again. See
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...Mountain-Giant

Here is my latest version:

Mountain Giant, revised #2

Gargantuan Giant (Earth)
Alignment: Usually chaotic
Initiative: +4; Senses: darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +17, and Spot +17
AC: 35 (-4 size, +29 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 35
Hit Dice: 30d8+420 (555 hp)
Saves Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +25
Speed: 80 ft.
Space / Reach: 20 ft./20 ft.
Base Attack +22; Grapple +54
Attack: Colossal greatclub +34 melee, or slam +34 melee, or rock +35 ranged
Full Attack: Colossal greatclub +34/+29/+24/+19 melee, or 2 slams +34 melee, or rock +35/+30/+25/+20 ranged
Damage: Colossal greatclub 6d8+24/19-20, slam 4d6+16, rock 4d8+16
Special Attacks/Actions: Crush 6d6+24, fling, grapple, rock throwing, trample 6d6+24, earth stomp
Abilities: Str 43, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Special Qualities: rock catching, powerful build, acclimated, cold resistance 10, DR 5/-
Feats: Awesome Blow; Brutal Throw; Iron Will; Endurance[B]; Steadfast Determination (no auto fail Fort on natural 1; Con instead of Wis to Will saves); Indomitable Soul (re-roll Will vs mind-affecting or fear); Improved Bull Rush; Improved Critical (greatclub); Power Attack; Improved Toughness[B]; Improved Initiative; Quick Draw
Epic Feats: Dire Charge, Fast Healing [B; fast healing 3]
Skills: Jump +39, Listen +15, and Spot +15
Advancement: By character class
Climate/Terrain: Any mountains
Organization: Solitary, warlord (1 plus 3-18 hill giants), family (2 plus 1-3 young), or tribe (3-12 plus 2-8 young)
Treasure/Possessions: Standard
Challenge Rating: 19
Level Adjustment: +0

Among the largest giants in existence (though legends speak of even larger giants in ancient times), mountain giants are primitive creatures sometimes given to cruelty and capriciousness, though not all are evil. They take great pleasure in flinging boulders down upon foes, trying to hit them as they flee. Mountain giants often live to be 200 years old. Most are reclusive, especially those with young, and these defend their territory but keep to it. A notorious few attempt to become leaders of smaller giants or even humanoids.

A mountain giant resembles a titanic hill giant, standing more than 40 feet tall and weighing nearly 50,000 pounds. Greasy, jet-black hair frames a face with bulbous features and a skin tone that can be any shade from tan to reddish brown. The typical mountain giant wears only minimal clothing—usually a breechcloth and a shirt made of rough animal hide that barely covers a large pot belly.

A mountain giant’s bag contains 3d6+6 rocks suitable for throwing, 1d4+2 mundane items, and the giant’s personal wealth. These items tend to be humanoid-made artifacts that the mountain giant considers playthings, such as broken wagons, small huts, and furniture, including tables and beds.

Mountain giants attack in a straightforward manner, stepping forth to overrun opponents whenever possible. They also enjoy picking up foes and hurling them against a mountainside. Many an armed foe has foiled a mountain giant’s initial grab attempt only to be scooped up by the monster’s other hand. In melee, mountain giants use their height to smash their clubs down on the heads of their foes. A mountain giant that feels seriously threatened often uses the summon giants ability to engage its foes with other opponents, then steps back to hurl boulders. Against groups of smaller foes, mountain giants prefer their trample or crush attacks.

Crush (Ex): A mountain giant that jumps at least 20 feet into the air (or jumps down from a height of at least 20 feet) can land on opponents two or more size categories smaller than itself as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the giant's body. (This is normally a 20-foot square, but the giant can instead opt to come down on its seat and cover a 20-foot by 40-foot area, although it then becomes prone.) Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 38) or be pinned, automatically taking 6d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. Thereafter, if the giant chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. While pinned, the opponent takes crush damage each round.

Fling (Ex): A mountain giant that successfully grapples a foe two or more size categories smaller than itself can hurl the creature as a standard action. A flung creature travels up to 120 feet and takes 12d6 points of damage. A creature that is flung off a mountain takes this amount of damage or the appropriate falling damage, whichever is greater. The giant also can throw the flung creature as though it were a boulder. In this case, the flung creature takes 12d6+16 points of damage, and any opponent it strikes takes 4d8+16 points of damage.

Grapple (Ex): If a mountain giant hits an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a slam, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple (grapple bonus +54). If it gets a hold, it can fling the opponent in the next round. Alternatively, the mountain giant has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use one hand to hold the opponent (-20 penalty on grapple check, but the mountain giant is not considered grappled). In either case, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals slam damage.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a mountain giant can trample opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. This attack deals 6d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a -4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 41) for half damage.

Rock Throwing (Ex): An adult giant is an accomplished rock thrower and receives a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls when throwing rocks. A mountain giant can hurl rocks weighing 160 to 200 pounds (Huge objects) with a range increment of 200'.

Rock catching (Ex): A mountain giant can catch rocks of up to Colossal size. Once per round, a giant that would normally be hit by a rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC to catch a rock is based on the rock's size (DC 20 + 5 per size category above Medium). If the projectile has a bonus on attack rolls because of magic, the DC increases by that amount. The giant must be ready for and aware of the attack.

Scent (Ex): A mountain giant can detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

Earth Stomp (Ex): During a move action which can include normal movement (or during a charge), the giant can choose to stomp on the ground with great force. All other creatures on the ground within 20' must make a Reflex save (DC 41, Str-based) or fall prone.

Powerful Build (Ex): The physical stature of a mountain giant lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever one is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A mountain giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A mountain giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.

Acclimated (Ex): Mountain giants are automatically acclimated to life at high altitude. They don't take the penalties for altitude described in the Mountain Travel section. Unlike other denizens of the mountains, they don't lose their acclimation to high altitude even if they spend a long time at a lower elevation.

Young: Young giants are normally noncombatants, but if forced to defend themselves, use the statistics for hill giants. Attacking young giants is an evil act, as is unnecessarily slaying their parents and leaving them to fend for themselves.

[Metastachydium]

I was inspired by recent MG-related threads to revise the MG once again.

The more (mountain giants) the merrier!

Feats: Awesome Blow; Brutal Throw; Iron Will; Endurance[B]; Steadfast Determination (no auto fail Fort on natural 1; Con instead of Wis to Will saves); Indomitable Soul (re-roll Will vs mind-affecting or fear); Improved Bull Rush; Improved Critical (greatclub); Power Attack; Improved Toughness[B]; Improved Initiative; Quick Draw

Strange minds! I went the same route for the Will issue, in the end.

Epic Feats: Dire Charge, Fast Healing [B; fast healing 3]

Handing out Fast Healing as a bonus feat is a little inelegant, if you ask me, seeing how you could just give the thing fast healing with the same effort.

Level Adjustment: +0

I still don't see this as +0 material. That (as someone pointed out in the 3.5 thread) even WotC had the decency to acknowledge the original wasn't worth its number of HD in ECL is telling enough. Yours is easily better of course, but within the significant limitations of the core concept ("big bruiser and that's it, deep in epic territory"), that still doesn't amount to being playable at ECL 30.

Crush (Ex): A mountain giant that jumps at least 20 feet into the air (or jumps down from a height of at least 20 feet) can land on opponents two or more size categories smaller than itself as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the giant's body. (This is normally a 20-foot square, but the giant can instead opt to come down on its seat and cover a 20-foot by 40-foot area, although it then becomes prone.) Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 38) or be pinned, automatically taking 6d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. Thereafter, if the giant chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. While pinned, the opponent takes crush damage each round.

Funny how after whining about this being on the low side as damage goes, I went for less with my Colossal version. I need to up that a bit.

Earth Stomp (Ex): During a move action which can include normal movement (or during a charge), the giant can choose to stomp on the ground with great force. All other creatures on the ground within 20' must make a Reflex save (DC 41, Str-based) or fall prone.

Strange minds again! I took the maneuver route for this (because subsystems need love too), but it's nice to see feeling like this kind of thing is really thematic isn't just me.

[kinem]

I'm not satisfied with that revision and have changed a few things:

The giant's mental ability penalties have been removed. I know it's basically a big Hill Giant, but I like it better as just a big giant that is not particularly dumb, and often a leader of other giants and so should not have a Charisma penalty.

Lifespan has been increased.

Survival has replaced Listen.

The way Earth Stomp works is now based on Trip.

Metastachydium: I agree about the feats. I would like to get rid of bonus feats but the numbers don't add up, but I did change Iron Will to be the bonus feat and Fast Healing is now a selectable feat. Thanks.

I intend to make a Colossal giant based on the Stone Giant instead of the Hill Giant.

[kinem]

Mountain Giant, revised #3

Gargantuan Giant (Earth)
Alignment: Usually chaotic
Initiative: +4; Senses: darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +17, and Spot +17
AC: 35 (-4 size, +29 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 35
Hit Dice: 30d8+420 (555 hp)
Saves Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +25
Speed: 80 ft.
Space / Reach: 20 ft./20 ft.
Base Attack +22; Grapple +54
Attack: Colossal greatclub +34 melee, or slam +34 melee, or rock +35 ranged
Full Attack: Colossal greatclub +34/+29/+24/+19 melee, or 2 slams +34 melee, or rock +35/+30/+25/+20 ranged
Damage: Colossal greatclub 6d8+24/19-20, slam 4d6+16, rock 4d8+16
Special Attacks/Actions: Crush 6d6+24, fling, grapple, rock throwing, trample 6d6+24, earth stomp
Abilities: Str 43, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Special Qualities: rock catching, powerful build, acclimated, cold resistance 10, DR 5/-
Feats: Awesome Blow; Brutal Throw; Iron Will [B]; Endurance[B]; Steadfast Determination (no auto fail Fort on natural 1; Con instead of Wis to Will saves); Indomitable Soul (re-roll Will vs mind-affecting or fear); Improved Bull Rush; Improved Critical (greatclub); Power Attack; Improved Toughness[B]; Improved Initiative; Quick Draw
Epic Feats: Dire Charge, Fast Healing [fast healing 3]
Skills: Jump +39, Survival +30, and Spot +33
Advancement: By character class
Climate/Terrain: Any mountains
Organization: Solitary, warlord (1 plus 3-18 hill giants), family (2 plus 1-3 young), or tribe (3-12 plus 2-8 young)
Treasure/Possessions: Standard
Challenge Rating: 19
Level Adjustment: +0

Among the largest giants in existence (though legends speak of even larger giants in ancient times), mountain giants are primitive creatures sometimes given to cruelty and capriciousness, though not all are evil. They take great pleasure in flinging boulders down upon foes, trying to hit them as they flee. Mountain giants often live to be 300 years old. Most are reclusive, especially those with young, and these defend their territory but keep to it. A notorious few attempt to become leaders of smaller giants or even humanoids.

A mountain giant resembles a titanic hill giant, standing more than 40 feet tall and weighing nearly 50,000 pounds. Greasy, jet-black hair frames a face with bulbous features and a skin tone that can be any shade from tan to reddish brown. The typical mountain giant wears only minimal clothing—usually a breechcloth and a shirt made of rough animal hide that barely covers a large pot belly.

A mountain giant’s bag contains 3d6+6 rocks suitable for throwing, 1d4+2 mundane items, and the giant’s personal wealth. These items tend to be humanoid-made artifacts that the mountain giant considers playthings, such as broken wagons, small huts, and furniture, including tables and beds.

Mountain giants attack in a straightforward manner, stepping forth to overrun opponents whenever possible. They also enjoy picking up foes and hurling them against a mountainside. Many an armed foe has foiled a mountain giant’s initial grab attempt only to be scooped up by the monster’s other hand. In melee, mountain giants use their height to smash their clubs down on the heads of their foes. A mountain giant that feels seriously threatened often steps back to hurl boulders. Against groups of smaller foes, mountain giants prefer their trample or crush attacks.

Crush (Ex): A mountain giant that jumps at least 20 feet into the air (or jumps down from a height of at least 20 feet) can land on opponents two or more size categories smaller than itself as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the giant's body. (This is normally a 20-foot square, but the giant can instead opt to come down on its seat and cover a 20-foot by 40-foot area, although it then becomes prone.) Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 38) or be pinned, automatically taking 6d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. Thereafter, if the giant chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. While pinned, the opponent takes crush damage each round.

Fling (Ex): A mountain giant that successfully grapples a foe two or more size categories smaller than itself can hurl the creature as a standard action. A flung creature travels up to 120 feet and takes 12d6 points of damage. A creature that is flung off a mountain takes this amount of damage or the appropriate falling damage, whichever is greater. The giant also can throw the flung creature as though it were a boulder. In this case, the flung creature takes 12d6+16 points of damage, and any opponent it strikes takes 4d8+16 points of damage.

Grapple (Ex): If a mountain giant hits an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a slam, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple (grapple bonus +54). If it gets a hold, it can fling the opponent in the next round. Alternatively, the mountain giant has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use one hand to hold the opponent (-20 penalty on grapple check, but the mountain giant is not considered grappled). In either case, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals slam damage.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a mountain giant can trample opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. This attack deals 6d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a -4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 41) for half damage.

Rock Throwing (Ex): An adult giant is an accomplished rock thrower and receives a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls when throwing rocks. A mountain giant can hurl rocks weighing 160 to 200 pounds (Huge objects) with a range increment of 200'.

Rock catching (Ex): A mountain giant can catch rocks of up to Colossal size. Once per round, a giant that would normally be hit by a rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC to catch a rock is based on the rock's size (DC 20 + 5 per size category above Medium). If the projectile has a bonus on attack rolls because of magic, the DC increases by that amount. The giant must be ready for and aware of the attack.

Scent (Ex): A mountain giant can detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

Earth Stomp (Ex): During a move action which can include normal movement (or during a charge), the giant can choose to stomp on the ground with great force. All other creatures on the ground within 20' are affected as if by a Trip attack. The giant makes a Strength check (1d20+16) opposed by the defender’s Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier). A combatant gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium or a -4 penalty for every size category he is smaller than Medium. The defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. If the giant's Strength check is higher, the defender falls prone.

Powerful Build (Ex): The physical stature of a mountain giant lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever one is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A mountain giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A mountain giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.

Acclimated (Ex): Mountain giants are automatically acclimated to life at high altitude. They don't take the penalties for altitude described in the Mountain Travel section. Unlike other denizens of the mountains, they don't lose their acclimation to high altitude even if they spend a long time at a lower elevation.

Young: Young giants are normally noncombatants, but if forced to defend themselves, use the statistics for hill giants. Attacking young giants is an evil act, as is unnecessarily slaying their parents and leaving them to fend for themselves.

[Metastachydium]

Mountain Giant, revised #2

Did you mean: 3?

The giant's mental ability penalties have been removed. I know it's basically a big Hill Giant, but I like it better as just a big giant that is not particularly dumb, and often a leader of other giants and so should not have a Charisma penalty.

As someone who firmly believes the OA version with no INT penalty was the best thing that ever happened to D&D Ogres (I mean, I'm no big fan of INT penalties in general and just how bad they made the Ogre compared to, e.g. the Equiceph or the Blackscale Lizard…) I can get behind that.

Metastachydium: I agree about the feats. I would like to get rid of bonus feats but the numbers don't add up, but I did change Iron Will to be the bonus feat and Fast Healing is now a selectable feat. Thanks.

Any time!

I intend to make a Colossal giant based on the Stone Giant instead of the Hill Giant.

Sounds lovely! I've always liked Stone Giants.