A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    I suspect you might mean "quarks", because neutrinos get here from the sun, amongst other sources, and they couldn't do that if they only existed for a very short time.
    Nope, neutrinos are, IIRC, very short lived. It's just that they're very fast and relativity exists, so we see more of the darned things than we theoretically 'should'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    they're very fast
    Meaning very fast; so fast, in fact, that tiny little measurement errors sometimes make it look like they are faster than light.

  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Meaning very fast; so fast, in fact, that tiny little measurement errors sometimes make it look like they are faster than light.
    Eh, speed of light isn't an absolute barrier anyway.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Eh, speed of light isn't an absolute barrier anyway.
    Says the guy with the 150' listed fly speed. (And at any rate, light speed is probably our most convenient shorthand for "pretty darn fast".)

  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Says the guy with the 150' listed fly speed. (And at any rate, light speed is probably our most convenient shorthand for "pretty darn fast".)
    Fair on both counts.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Eh, speed of light isn't an absolute barrier anyway.
    In a vacuum, it is.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Nope, neutrinos are, IIRC, very short lived.
    They have a half-life of about 10 minutes, IIRC.

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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    In a vacuum, it is.
    Peelee has wings, so the can't fly in a vacuum!

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    They have a half-life of about 10 minutes, IIRC.
    Yeah, they never get far enough to see a headcrab.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    In a vacuum, it is.
    Spooky action at a distance famously disagrees.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spooky action at a distance famously disagrees.
    No, it does not.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    I don't really see why people want female space marines myself
    A lot of the time? It's because they want to be able to see themselves in their projects, and they don't want to be shoehorned into Sisters of Battle for that (or some other very limited subset of models), thank you very much.

    And secondarily, it can just read as "there's no reason this army can't be both, there'd be no difference in the end result, but screw you, this is an all-boys-club for no good reason." And that kind of thing - especially when it's a full half of the playable armies, can make someone feel a tad unwelcome and/or unincluded.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    No, it does not.
    Far be it from me to impeach such a qualitative rebuttal.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Far be it from me to impeach such a qualitative rebuttal.
    You didn't really make much an argument yourself.

    To expand a bit, I don't understand the theory very well (in my defense, it is quantum mecanics) and there are several different models but, I know that the consensus is that, contrary to what popular culture would have you believe, quantum entanglement (that is "spooky action at a distance") does not actually transmit information at faster-than-light speed.

    Generally, it seems that "the speed of light in a vacuum" would be more accurately called "the speed of causality".
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    A lot of the time? It's because they want to be able to see themselves in their projects, and they don't want to be shoehorned into Sisters of Battle for that (or some other very limited subset of models), thank you very much.

    And secondarily, it can just read as "there's no reason this army can't be both, there'd be no difference in the end result, but screw you, this is an all-boys-club for no good reason." And that kind of thing - especially when it's a full half of the playable armies, can make someone feel a tad unwelcome and/or unincluded.
    Ah fair, I guess.

    I was never big fan of Space Marines anyways, so I don't really care what happens to their fluff. kind of one of the least interesting parts of Wh40k to me when there is all these weird aliens, warp stuff and so on around.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    A lot of the time? It's because they want to be able to see themselves in their projects, and they don't want to be shoehorned into Sisters of Battle for that (or some other very limited subset of models), thank you very much.
    Yeah, the actual issues are so many factions being Marines, and so few units giving mixed-gender options (I think it's only a few Eldar and T'au units).

    And secondarily, it can just read as "there's no reason this army can't be both, there'd be no difference in the end result, but screw you, this is an all-boys-club for no good reason." And that kind of thing - especially when it's a full half of the playable armies, can make someone feel a tad unwelcome and/or unincluded.
    It's pretty much 'it's an all-boys club because the target audience is still too scared to talk to girls'. But yeah, there's a reason my girlfriend went for Harlequinns. Me, I just noticed they released the Kreiger kill team as a standalone box...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spooky action at a distance famously disagrees.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    To expand a bit, I don't understand the theory very well (in my defense, it is quantum mecanics) and there are several different models but, I know that the consensus is that, contrary to what popular culture would have you believe, quantum entanglement (that is "spooky action at a distance") does not actually transmit information at faster-than-light speed.

    Generally, it seems that "the speed of light in a vacuum" would be more accurately called "the speed of causality".
    I opened my old Introduction to quantum mechanics textbook (by David J. Griffiths, second edition, chapter 12) and looked up the EPR paradox about spin entanglement again. Suppose you have a neutral pi meson that decays into an electron and a positron. The pi meson has 0 spin, so if the electron has spin down the positron has spin up and vice versa as per conservation of momentum. Only at the moment of decay, neither the elector nor position yet has a spin. They don't get a spin until it's measured and the wave function collapses. These particles can be light years apart, but even so you will immediately collapse the wave function and know the spin of the other particle once you perform a measurement. However, you can't make the measurement turn out a certain way, so you cannot make the spin of the particle be up or down and you can't make causal influences travel faster than light.

    Of course there's more on it, but that's the gist of it and admittedly I couldn't be bothered to dive into it again more deeply. It's been a long time since my physics classes.
    Last edited by Form; 2022-09-28 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Explanation was incomplete without mentioning collapse of the wave function

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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    quantum entanglement (that is "spooky action at a distance") does not actually transmit information at faster-than-light speed.
    Ok, so the issue here is you're arguing against something I never said. I didn't say anything about information. I said the speed of light is not a hard limit. Quantum entanglement still happens faster than light, whether we can utilize it or not. We can't transmit I formation faster than light, sure. But speed of light being na absolute barrier reeks of the prandtl-glauert singularity. Our understanding is most likely the issue here, not some sort of "universal speed limit."
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quantum entanglement still happens faster than light
    The thing is, the actual entangling happens when the particles physically interact with each other; the speed of light isn't a notable factor with those negligible distances. The effect you're describing, where the same measurement of each entangled particle is correlated despite the intervening distance, is more like two photocopies having the same content even if they're read on opposite sides of the planet.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    The thing is, the actual entangling happens when the particles physically interact with each other; the speed of light isn't a notable factor with those negligible distances. The effect you're describing, where the same measurement of each entangled particle is correlated despite the intervening distance, is more like two photocopies having the same content even if they're read on opposite sides of the planet.
    It's been a while since I've looked into it, but I remember reading that disentanglement is instantaneous with no theoretical limit on the amount of space separating them. We just can't use this in any meaningful way.

    Or, to use your analogy, two photocopiers printing out the same content on opposite sides of the planet but we don't know what the content is supposed to be so we can't do anything with it.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    It's been a while since I've looked into it, but I remember reading that disentanglement is instantaneous with no theoretical limit on the amount of space separating them. We just can't use this in any meaningful way.

    Or, to use your analogy, two photocopiers printing out the same content on opposite sides of the planet but we don't know what the content is supposed to be so we can't do anything with it.
    Yes, but when we told the photocopiers "Hey, print the same thing as each other. We don't care what it is, just that it's the same!" they weren't far enough apart to require anything to happen FTL. The fact that they are now is irrelevant, because they already received the instructions.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    Yes, but when we told the photocopiers "Hey, print the same thing as each other. We don't care what it is, just that it's the same!" they weren't far enough apart to require anything to happen FTL. The fact that they are now is irrelevant, because they already received the instructions.
    You're making it sound like it's just on a timer, and while I admittedly have very little understanding of quantum mechanics in general, I'm fairly certain that is not a good analogy.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    It's been a while since I've looked into it, but I remember reading that disentanglement is instantaneous with no theoretical limit on the amount of space separating them. We just can't use this in any meaningful way.
    First, it's not true that this can't be used in any meaningful way; a lot of cryptography relies on two parties using the same arbitrary value, and this is right up that alley.

    Second, as enderlord99 is getting at, "disentanglement" is the state of one particle being thrown out of sync with the other particle, hopefully because we just read the state (as reading the state involves interacting/interfering with the particle). The initial state was set when the particles were entangled, and because the particles were entangled that initial state is the same for both of them. There's no mystical tether setting the state of the second particle when the first particle's state was read.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    You're making it sound like it's just on a timer
    It is. The length of the timer is "until someone checks one of them."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    It is. The length of the timer is "until someone checks one of them."
    OK, so one of them is checked, and then they both react. The second one is still reacting instantaneously.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    OK, so one of them is checked, and then they both react.
    Eh... sorta? I don't know the exact details (fittingly, considering we're discussing quantum stuff) but I'm pretty sure the answer is "sorta"
    The second one is still reacting instantaneously.
    No.

    EDIT: They don't both react. They both are in states that correlate in some way but "being in a state" is not a reaction.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2022-09-24 at 08:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    Eh... sorta? I don't know the exact details (fittingly, considering we're discussing quantum stuff) but I'm pretty sure the answer is "sorta"No.

    EDIT: They don't both react. They both are in states that correlate in some way but "being in a state" is not a reaction.
    You're right, "react" was not the best word. And also "instantaneous" is not exact either. ~3,000,000,000,000 meters per second is more accurate, at least in terms of what we have recorded. That's reported by Chinese scientists, who I tend to be somewhat dubious towards, but I haven't found anything saying they were wrong.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    ~3,000,000,000,000 meters per second is more accurate
    Is that the velocity or the rapidity? There's a function to convert the two, though I don't know what it is.

    The speed of light is "infinite" when converted to rapidity.
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    My girlfriend and I are going to be doing NaNoWriMo together as a fun thing, both writing science fiction pieces. Hers is a far future specualative technology piece, mine is a cyberpunk novel set in an alternate present/intentionally outdated future.

    As I plan I find the computer technology of this setting slipping backwards. It began with the intent to have modern smartphones, but now phones are at the ~2003 level and most computers use BASIC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Today I learned that sugar frosted shredded wheat cereals have less sugar than raisin bran.

    So now I'm pissed off. How can something that isn't even that sweet have more sugar than something that is literally frosted with sugar?
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    Default Re: Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Today I learned that sugar frosted shredded wheat cereals have less sugar than raisin bran.

    So now I'm pissed off. How can something that isn't even that sweet have more sugar than something that is literally frosted with sugar?
    It may very well be the raisins. Pretty much any fruit is going to have more sugar than one would expect, and raisins are just dry grapes when you get right down to it.
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