Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

[Lord Raziere]

dammit I had great analysis/thoughts for Zodi's map but I lost it when i accidentally clicked off. UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGh

try to remake it/cliff notes:
-culture ideas of sci-fi pulp different due to not having other continents and thus tropes like explorers and such not come up
-water city science fiction and alt universe fiction with more continents might be popular
-any nation would be devastated by a hurricane coming by
-people might have myths about islands and the only continent being there, think islands are broken off from bad things being done in olden times.
-sizes of former nations ridiculous, all of them bigger than texas, other size comparisons like uuuuuuh Dulace being the distance from washington to minnesota of the Kaiga delta river area being about the size of california

grumble grumble, this is nowhere near as detailed as what I wanted to post, but now I'm frustrated.

[LaZodiac]

dammit I had great analysis/thoughts for Zodi's map but I lost it when i accidentally clicked off. UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGh

try to remake it/cliff notes:
-culture ideas of sci-fi pulp different due to not having other continents and thus tropes like explorers and such not come up
-water city science fiction and alt universe fiction with more continents might be popular
-any nation would be devastated by a hurricane coming by
-people might have myths about islands and the only continent being there, think islands are broken off from bad things being done in olden times.
-sizes of former nations ridiculous, all of them bigger than texas, other size comparisons like uuuuuuh Dulace being the distance from washington to minnesota of the Kaiga delta river area being about the size of california

grumble grumble, this is nowhere near as detailed as what I wanted to post, but now I'm frustrated.

The forum tends to save stuff like this. Do you think it might have been saved? That's a shame v_v. That being said, I've responses!

I've definitely though about all of these! Like, a lot!

- Yup! Explorers as we know them aren't really a thing within this series. More a focus on people hunting down specific things that are known but rare, not "going to find new things".
- Adding to that (and this is something that'll get brought up in the books later); despite the modern day stuff having electric cars and stuff being a more common and reasonable thing, they haven't ever gone to space- the only stuff in the sky are stars, the sun, and the moon. There's WAY more undersea adventure stories.
- I'm actually not sure any places in this country would have hurricanes or tornados as common, but that's a good point.
- Yeah! I imagine some people might look at something like, the Spiritus Finalis and think of that sorta thing.
- I'm bad at sizes so that only slightly makes sense to me but sure!

[Lord Raziere]

The forum tends to save stuff like this. Do you think it might have been saved? That's a shame v_v. That being said, I've responses!

I've definitely though about all of these! Like, a lot!

- Yup! Explorers as we know them aren't really a thing within this series. More a focus on people hunting down specific things that are known but rare, not "going to find new things".
- Adding to that (and this is something that'll get brought up in the books later); despite the modern day stuff having electric cars and stuff being a more common and reasonable thing, they haven't ever gone to space- the only stuff in the sky are stars, the sun, and the moon. There's WAY more undersea adventure stories.
- I'm actually not sure any places in this country would have hurricanes or tornados as common, but that's a good point.
- Yeah! I imagine some people might look at something like, the Spiritus Finalis and think of that sorta thing.
- I'm bad at sizes so that only slightly makes sense to me but sure!

well, it remembered some previous stupider post that wasn't important, unfortunately so....sigh....

okay to expand more as I try to remember:
-pirate fiction is probably not a thing, because no caribbean, no golden age of piracy, questionable if things like Star Trek or Indiana Jones are things, questionable if stuff set in space uses the naval space ship trope as much, like a lot of our military sci-fi uses naval metaphors and organization for what space fleets would be like and in this world navies wouldn't be as big so, its questionable if writers would use the same trope in your world. cowboys probably don't exist as a trope because no wild west. knights, samurai, probably still a thing though
-hard sci-fi probably has more naval battles and water cities and submarine stuff
-look, just do what I do: google a picture of the US, put this map and that map into the same digital art tool, then draw outlines of US States and the borders of the former nations over them, then overlay them on top of one another and you get a better idea of how large these things are. you might have to refit some of the borders for one map or another due to distortion though.
-the very face of social media is probably different, because colonialism didn't happen. (no wait social media might not exist, if no one has gone to space, then no one has launched satellites)
-oh right, their history is probably shorter than ours, because they wouldn't spend so much time trying to expand or settle new places, a lot of early human history is just humans spreading out, and a lot of human wars are fought to expand an empires borders to get resources. so they'd probably realize they can't expand anymore earlier and start inwardly working on other things earlier, because at some point they can't just settle or conquer some other place to solve their problems.

[LaZodiac]

well, it remembered some previous stupider post that wasn't important, unfortunately so....sigh....

okay to expand more as I try to remember:
-pirate fiction is probably not a thing, because no caribbean, no golden age of piracy, questionable if things like Star Trek or Indiana Jones are things, questionable if stuff set in space uses the naval space ship trope as much, like a lot of our military sci-fi uses naval metaphors and organization for what space fleets would be like and in this world navies wouldn't be as big so, its questionable if writers would use the same trope in your world. cowboys probably don't exist as a trope because no wild west. knights, samurai, probably still a thing though
-hard sci-fi probably has more naval battles and water cities and submarine stuff
-look, just do what I do: google a picture of the US, put this map and that map into the same digital art tool, then draw outlines of US States and the borders of the former nations over them, then overlay them on top of one another and you get a better idea of how large these things are. you might have to refit some of the borders for one map or another due to distortion though.
-the very face of social media is probably different, because colonialism didn't happen. (no wait social media might not exist, if no one has gone to space, then no one has launched satellites)
-oh right, their history is probably shorter than ours, because they wouldn't spend so much time trying to expand or settle new places, a lot of early human history is just humans spreading out, and a lot of human wars are fought to expand an empires borders to get resources. so they'd probably realize they can't expand anymore earlier and start inwardly working on other things earlier, because at some point they can't just settle or conquer some other place to solve their problems.

- I do think pirates exist- while there may not be a Caribbean, that is not exclusively the place pirates existed. Bandits can own boats, after all. You're right that naval stuff is less as prevelent of course. As said above, space fiction is almost exclusively substituted by underwater, 40k Leagues under the Sea type stuff. Indiana Jones like things might still exist, but be less "explorer" and more "finder of lost relics". Likewise with cowboys, while they are popularized by the "wild west", they are by no means invented by them. They are desert-clothes wearing travelers with a gun and a code, that's not that impossible to create (they're more of a Trestarian thing, in universe, by the way). Knights and samurai are definitely a thing- Kaiga's ancient samurai, Felisia and Exova's knights are definitely a thing, and the later two still have some remnants of that ancient time standing today. An age-old castle ruins used as a cafe, for instance.
- Yup!
- That's not really going to help me visualize size because theoretically any results could be obtained by doing that?
- Colonialism as it happened in the real world isn't a thing, but you best believe Felisia did some pretty bad stuff to the people of Dulace way back when. Similar, but different. Social media does also exist, there's no satellites but there are towers that operate on the same basic principle (it's all one continent so there's no NEED to circumnavigate the entire world to bounce signals around).
- Possibly true! There's a lot of influences and technically spoiler things that might make that somewhat inaccurate, but definitely worth thinking about!

[Rater202]

Pop Culture Trivia: Per Immortal Hulk: The Time of Monsters, the first person to ever become a hulk was a young man named Tammuz who lived in what we know call Jorden in the year 9500 BCE.

To try and explain it clearly and shortly as possible: He lived in a village that fell into a state of crisis when a meteor containing highly radioactive materials crashed into the land and turned the bountiful area into a desolate hellscape. The leader of the village, a man named Adad, ascribed religious significance to it, claiming that the "Mother Goddess" the village worshiped had become displeased with them and picked out her "Good Green Eye" and cast it into the earth to curse them.

And when I say that the meteorite was highly radioactive.

Tammuz befriended Shalim, the son of Adad, and after concluding that Adad had lost his mind and was going to get the entire village killed squatting in the ruins of their homeland, made plans to run off and try to find somewhere else to live. Adad found out and, pissed and off, brought Tammuz to the crater that the Good Green Eye rested in, explained his theories about the eye... The in started explaining that he thought a sacrifice was necessary and that he was going to sacrifice Tammuz for tryin to steal his son away, then pushed him into the crater.

We then see just how radioactive the Good Green Eye was... When the heat and radiation it let off started boiling away Tammuz's flesh before he had time to die.

Tammuz did not stay dead, however, but came back transformed... Imbued with not only Hulk-Like strength, but superhuman intelligence and a degree of prescience: Not only was he smarter, but he knew exactly what he had to do to restore prosperity to the land not only for his own tribe but for all of the surrounding peoples and upon regaining consciousness set out immediately to do so.

Unfortunately, his Hulk form was a little... Animalistic. And he found out too late that he had trouble talking in that form.

You see, Adad told the rest of the villages that Tammuz had voluntarily sacrificed himself... And then when a village scout reported that a strange beast had been seen in their lands he took at a sign of providence that his murder of Tammuz had pleased the Mother Goddess and had the villagers ride out to hunt the beast.

Tammuz was killed a second time by the hunters of his tribe, the killing blow struck by Shalim, while he was trying to dig into an underground reservoir of fresh water that hadn't been tainted by the fall out of the meteor impact. His body was then taken back to the village where he was butchered and eaten... Even after Shalim recognized Tammuz's birthmark and realized that the bast was Tammuz, he decided not to say anything.

Tammuz found himself in the Below Place, the Realm of the One Below All and the source of the "Secret Third Form of Light" that is the semi-magical form of Gamma Radiation that creates Hulks, he was confronted by the One Below All who gave its normal speech and when it got to the "My Weapon is Hate" part he said "I guess mine is too" and the Green Door opened and he walked through.

Tamuz's body flew back together, killing the entire village save for Shalim who did not eat any of his flesh. Shalim apologized, claiming he didn't recognize the beast as Tammuz until after he was dead. Tammuz thought it over, then elected to kill Shalim anyway.

The kicker: Tammuz was seeming without the rage issues, exaggerated negative impulses, or unveiling of repressed traits that later Hulks are known to struggle with. His thoght process after his first ressurection also indicated that the power he'd absorbed from the Good Green Eye had been purified to the point that it couldn't hurt anyone anymore(which we know is not the case for later Hulks) and his olny thoughts were about helping people.

All modern hulks are confirmed to have a single common ancestor. The implication is that Tammuz is that common ancestor and that despite coming from an Infernal Source Hulk owers were entirely benevolent until he made the deliberate choice to embrace hatred and seek vengeance and in doing so he doomed all of his descendants.

[Mystic Muse]

So one might say...

He struck Shalim down in his hatred, and his journey to the dark side was complete?

I'm not sorry.

[Rater202]

So one might say...

He struck Shalim down in his hatred, and his journey to the dark side was complete?

I'm not sorry.

I don't think that was he llusion they were going for... I'm no sure I'm allowed to explaint he allusions they were going for actually, but... Yeah, basically.

Incidentally, this is what I consider to be a "good" Anti-Revenge story.

I don't think you can argue that Tammuz wasn't justified. Adad murdered him in cold blood out of a combination of spite and delusion, the rest of the village murdered him again while he was trying to help them due to misunderstanding and buying into Adad's lies and delusions, and Shalim let his body be butchered and cannibalized despite recognizing him.

And Shalim, the one who betrayed him most directly, was the only one he deliberatly killed. The rest died as a consequence of his flesh being in their stomachs when he was resurrected. And this was like, over six thousand years before the start of the Bronze Age. Justice was "if someone hurts you or yours, you hurt them back."

He was justified... But there were forces at play that he didn't understand and so his taking vengeance had consequences not just for him but for everyone who came after him.

[Lord Raziere]

@ Zodi:
y'know what? that sounds like the Bioshock aesthetic would be more prevalent in fiction then. like you'd just have Bioshock clones all over the place for a while.

@ Rater:
bleh. bad. comic books really needs to stop putting stuff like that into comic books about superheroes punching dudes. they're not being deep, they're just inserting spiritual logic where it doesn't make sense.

[enderlord99]

he doomed all of his descendants.

Except maybe Doc Samson, right?

[Rater202]

@ Rater:
bleh. bad. comic books really needs to stop putting stuff like that into comic books about superheroes punching dudes. they're not being deep, they're just inserting spiritual logic where it doesn't make sense.

Raz, there's been spiritual logic and religious symbolism in superhero comics since the 1940s. Some stories are just more honest about it.

Also, Immortal Hulk is one of the most widely regarded and well-written Hulk storylines of the last good long while. Deep exploration of Bruce's psyche and lots of deep cuts to the decades of history that preface it. My summary of that one issue is not doing it justice.

Except maybe Doc Samson, right?

Samson has his own issues to deal with. Mostly related to arrogance and Foot-in-Mouth syndrome. Not every Hulk has Bruce-level issues, but they all have issues to work with.

(Their issues aren't even necessarily a bad thing, in a vacuum. The Red Hulk brings out General Ross's repressed better nature, the parts of himself that he thinks get in the way of doing what needs to be done.)

[LaZodiac]

@ Zodi:
y'know what? that sounds like the Bioshock aesthetic would be more prevalent in fiction then. like you'd just have Bioshock clones all over the place for a while.

@ Rater:
bleh. bad. comic books really needs to stop putting stuff like that into comic books about superheroes punching dudes. they're not being deep, they're just inserting spiritual logic where it doesn't make sense.

That's honestly hilarious a thought. Underwater steam-punk fantasy replaces space fantasy, so... She-ra in a long-coat with a magic steam-sword, I guess?

I don't usually mind when comics go super extensive with like, secret deep lore stuff, but the Hulk having like a... progenitor strain or something is such a weird concept to me. I've always preferred when it was focused on the human psyche through Banner. I've always sorta felt the idea of the Hulk was that everyone had that sorta side of them; anyone can be The Hulk, which is a fascinating contrast to "everyone can be Spider-man"

[Mystic Muse]

I don't think that was he llusion they were going for... I'm no sure I'm allowed to explaint he allusions they were going for actually, but... Yeah, basically.

I've been looking at giant Star Wars lego sets, and Star Wars memes, you will have to forgive me for making a very obvious Star Wars reference.

[Rater202]

I don't usually mind when comics go super extensive with like, secret deep lore stuff, but the Hulk having like a... progenitor strain or something is such a weird concept to me. I've always preferred when it was focused on the human psyche through Banner. I've always sorta felt the idea of the Hulk was that everyone had that sorta side of them; anyone can be The Hulk, which is a fascinating contrast to "everyone can be Spider-man"

Ohno, the exploration of the human psyche is still very much a thing here.

This is more... Hulk-powers turn you into a metaphor for your own issues and hangups. Bruce's repressed anger explodes out and triggers the manifestation of his rather severe Dissociative Identity Disorder. Samual Stern's bitterness over his learning disability manifests in him becoming the smartest man int he world... But he has to wear a neck brace lest he break his neck under the weight of his mighty brain. Jen is more or less stable but is sexually repressed and shy, so she becomes confident and sexually liberated... And finds herself not wanting to change back if she can help it, her Hulk Form becoming a crutch.

She also runs into other issues when she gets traumatized and doesn't get better until she deals with those issues.

This is more an explantion for why hulk powers work like that when other powers don't.

[Lord Raziere]

Raz, there's been spiritual logic and religious symbolism in superhero comics since the 1940s. Some stories are just more honest about it.

Also, Immortal Hulk is one of the most widely regarded and well-written Hulk storylines of the last good long while. Deep exploration of Bruce's psyche and lots of deep cuts to the decades of history that preface it. My summary of that one issue is not doing it justice.

Its more of a "I see what specific trope its doing and I don't like that specific trope, but I can't say it because it would be discussing religion" kind of thing, so thats the closest I can say.

[Rater202]

Its more of a "I see what specific trope its doing and I don't like that specific trope, but I can't say it because it would be discussing religion" kind of thing, so thats the closest I can say.

Fair enough.

[Peelee]

I've been looking at giant Star Wars lego sets, and Star Wars memes, you will have to forgive me for making a very obvious Star Wars reference.

Forgive you? I'm openly encouraging you!

[Rater202]

I asked this on another forum but I'll ask it here, too.

You are trying to style on people who believe themselves to be perfect and seem to be pathologically obsessed with having stuff without necessarily using that stuff.

Assuming that Barbie Doll Anatomy is in play, what's the bigger power move: Adoring yourself in subtly stylish but highly functional armor... Or just showing up to the fight naked because you have nothing to cover up and no need for protection from their attacks nor the elements.

[enderlord99]

I asked this on another forum but I'll ask it here, too.

You are trying to style on people who believe themselves to be perfect and seem to be pathologically obsessed with having stuff without necessarily using that stuff.

Assuming that Barbie Doll Anatomy is in play, what's the bigger power move: Adoring yourself in subtly stylish but highly functional armor... Or just showing up to the fight naked because you have nothing to cover up and no need for protection from their attacks nor the elements.

Definitely the latter.

Regardless of whether "stuff" means "material possessions" or "genitals"

[Mystic Muse]

Forgive you? I'm openly encouraging you!

To make Star Wars references, or to window shop Lego sets I can't afford right now?

[Rater202]

Definitely the latter.

Regardless of whether "stuff" means "material possessions" or "genitals"

Material possessions.

The characters in question collect treasure like Smaug and walk around 24/7 in the gaudiest crap thinking it's a show of status and wealth. That **** only flies at a gala, for everyday wear it just makes you look like a jackass.

My thought, for either option, is a "less is more" approch.

[Peelee]

I asked this on another forum but I'll ask it here, too.

You are trying to style on people who believe themselves to be perfect and seem to be pathologically obsessed with having stuff without necessarily using that stuff.

Assuming that Barbie Doll Anatomy is in play, what's the bigger power move: Adoring yourself in subtly stylish but highly functional armor... Or just showing up to the fight naked because you have nothing to cover up and no need for protection from their attacks nor the elements.

I don't understand this question. What is "styling on"? What does "barbie doll anatomy" have to do with it? Why am I suddenly fighting them?

To make Star Wars references, or to window shop Lego sets I can't afford right now?

Both, but if I must choose one, the former.

[enderlord99]

My thought, for either option, is a "less is more" approch.

I agree, yes... and you can't exactly wear less than nothing, so that means wearing nothing.

[Rater202]

I don't understand this question. What is "styling on"? What does "barbie doll anatomy" have to do with it? Why am I suddenly fighting them?

There is a Jumpchain document based on a rather infamously bad fanfic.

I have been convinced to read said story... And it offends me on many levels.

The protagonists are narcissistic psychopaths who get praised by the narrative for doing things that the antagonists are condemned for, the antagonists are cartoonishly cliched villains who are evil for the sake of being evil, and everyone else is a god-damned idiot. It is a fractal of offensive in every way you can imagine.

So I'm doing a chain about a real super villain, someone competent with a sense of style and decorum and who is aware that they're a villain, coming into the setting, foiling the protagonists' evil plot while showing the antagonists how it's done.

(I am far from the first person to do this kind of thing, mind you.)

I ended up with a lot more points on my first jump than I thought I would, and was able to pick up a copy of Captain Atom's power.

Tha'ts not a costume, that's his skin, and it's part of his power.

Part of the goal of the chain is a less is more approach to items: Th protagonist of the story the Jump Doc is based on invests a lot of value in having stuff, lots and lots of items that have to be the best(IE, fanciest and most expensive) items while walking around in the gaudiest ****ing outfits as every day wear, but hardly ever uses any of it, so my Jumper was going to have only a handful of tools that, while subtly stylish, would have a great deal of practical value. The kind of thing you use on a regular basis.

And since I was able to grab the extra power, I don't think my Jumper needs armor—no need for protection, nothing to cover up—so now I'm wondering if having them without would be a better power move.

[Lord Raziere]

I asked this on another forum but I'll ask it here, too.

You are trying to style on people who believe themselves to be perfect and seem to be pathologically obsessed with having stuff without necessarily using that stuff.

Assuming that Barbie Doll Anatomy is in play, what's the bigger power move: Adoring yourself in subtly stylish but highly functional armor... Or just showing up to the fight naked because you have nothing to cover up and no need for protection from their attacks nor the elements.

Naked definitely. you are the weapon and you have no need of all the stuff that they uselessly hoard, get wrecked.

@ Peelee:
if you don't understand the internet thing of "styling on" them, its basically achieving victory in a way that makes a statement.

like say your in Dark souls pvp, and someone rolls up in practical armor and beats you with a fully upgraded weapon. thats normal, thats a defeat but that isn't really styling on you.

If however, someone in dark souls pvp comes and beats you while naked and with some bad weapon, THATS styling on you because they're making a statement about how they don't need to be optimal to beat you, because they are that skilled.

people do this because sometimes its not about achieving victory, its about sending a message.

[Fyraltari]

Tammuz [...] Adad [...] Shalim

Somebody should really tell Marvel Comics to leave other people's religions alone.

[Rater202]

Somebody should really tell Marvel Comics to leave other people's religions alone.

That ship sailed when Donald Blake found Mjolnir.

Though in this case the names are only an allusion. Tammuz is not meant to be the Tammuz.

[Fyraltari]

That ship sailed when Donald Blake found Mjolnir.

That's not a reason to keep going!

Though in this case the names are only an allusion. Tammuz is not meant to be the Tammuz.

Yeah, sure.

[Anonymouswizard]

I asked this on another forum but I'll ask it here, too.

You are trying to style on people who believe themselves to be perfect and seem to be pathologically obsessed with having stuff without necessarily using that stuff.

Assuming that Barbie Doll Anatomy is in play, what's the bigger power move: Adoring yourself in subtly stylish but highly functional armor... Or just showing up to the fight naked because you have nothing to cover up and no need for protection from their attacks nor the elements.

Woad. Definitely woad. But like, really badly applied.

To make Star Wars references, or to window shop Lego sets I can't afford right now?

Bah, the latter is just being an adult.

... I want the Monkis Kid set with like six different Wukongs.

Material possessions.

The characters in question collect treasure like Smaug and walk around 24/7 in the gaudiest crap thinking it's a show of status and wealth. That **** only flies at a gala, for everyday wear it just makes you look like a jackass.

My thought, for either option, is a "less is more" approch.

For some reason I'm now imagine Lofwyr covered in white gold and gems.

Still more stylish than what you described.

Somebody should really tell Marvel Comics to leave other people's religions alone.

You think that's bad? Image did an entire series where Amaterasu was white. Although on the plus side all the gods were like super gay.

[Fyraltari]

I've just watched in theater a movie serving as a sequel to a show that began on YouTube 11 years ago, made by a bunch of friends with basically no budget.

Pretty surreal experience.

[LaZodiac]

I've just watched in theater a movie serving as a sequel to a show that began on YouTube 11 years ago, made by a bunch of friends with basically no budget.

Pretty surreal experience.

And you're not gonna tell us what it is? Come on, spill the deets!