Anonymouswizard's Astoundingly Assonant Random Banter #240

[Peelee]

Very kind of you to reply to yourself in my stead. I appreciate it.

You already noted how I'm defining superweapon - a weapon that does massive damage. And it's really not as subjective as you're claiming. A gun will kill one person. You can shoot it more and kill more poeple, but that's just another use of the gun to kill one person. You can do the same with a bronze age soear or an iron age sword or a stone age rock and it doesn't really change.

Conventional missiles can do more spread out damage, but it's still fairly confined. We can have one missile carrying a bunch of different warheads to spread out the damage, but again, still pretty confined. A city block? Maybe two?

A nuke can level a city.

There's not a lot of subjectivity here. There's a massive difference in scale. You can claim "but it's subjective!" all you want but you're only convincing yourself.

The breadth and scope of a superweapon'ds devastation is not dependent on how many people have one. There is no "when everyone has one nobody has one". It doesn't work like that. Instead, it works like "everybody has one and that's really bad because they're still superweapons".

I would recommend that you don't take life lessons to apply blindly to any situation from cartoon characters.

[Keltest]

You already noted how I'm defining superweapon - a weapon that does massive damage. And it's really not as subjective as you're claiming. A gun will kill one person. You can shoot it more and kill more poeple, but that's just another use of the gun to kill one person. You can do the same with a bronze age soear or an iron age sword or a stone age rock and it doesn't really change.

Conventional missiles can do more spread out damage, but it's still fairly confined. We can have one missile carrying a bunch of different warheads to spread out the damage, but again, still pretty confined. A city block? Maybe two?

A nuke can level a city.

There's not a lot of subjectivity here. There's a massive difference in scale. You can claim "but it's subjective!" all you want but you're only convincing yourself.

The breadth and scope of a superweapon'ds devastation is not dependent on how many people have one. There is no "when everyone has one nobody has one". It doesn't work like that. Instead, it works like "everybody has one and that's really bad because they're still superweapons".

I would recommend that you don't take life lessons to apply blindly to any situation from cartoon characters.

But what is "massive" damage? When youve got a bow and arrow as the standard ranged weapon, having a gatling gun could almost literally mow down an entire army charging at you, which is not a feat that could remotely be duplicated with a bow. Is that a superweapon?

[Peelee]

But what is "massive" damage? When youve got a bow and arrow as the standard ranged weapon, having a gatling gun could almost literally mow down an entire army charging at you, which is not a feat that could remotely be duplicated with a bow. Is that a superweapon?

Again, there is a vast gulf between "can kill multiple men in a 300 yard radius" and "can destroy an entire city in one shot".

If you cannot differentiate the scale between the two, we simply will not be able to agree.

[LaZodiac]

You can call me Anonymoustargarean, considering where I'll be spending most of today.

If anybody knows of a place to get lacto-free stilton I'll be incredibly grateful.

I have no idea what this means please elaborate. I can't help because I cannot parse any of what was just said beyond "no milk plz".

======

Chapter 5! Saila and Noble make their way to their next destination, Samudr-tat. Saila dances up a storm, and Noble meets some lovely individuals. You can read it here!

[Metastachydium]

Conventional missiles can do more spread out damage, but it's still fairly confined. We can have one missile carrying a bunch of different warheads to spread out the damage, but again, still pretty confined. A city block? Maybe two?

Interesting fact: there are thermobaric bombs (and not even of the oversized/experimental sort, but ordnance designed for actual military use) that produce a 300 m (~1000') diameter fireball and have a kill radius of 500 m (~1700'). I checked it against the cinter of Birmingham, AL. It's up to 36 blocks.

[Bartmanhomer]

An atomic nuclear missile can destroy a whole city.

[Fyraltari]

You already noted how I'm defining superweapon - a weapon that does massive damage. And it's really not as subjective as you're claiming. A gun will kill one person. You can shoot it more and kill more poeple, but that's just another use of the gun to kill one person. You can do the same with a bronze age soear or an iron age sword or a stone age rock and it doesn't really change.

Conventional missiles can do more spread out damage, but it's still fairly confined. We can have one missile carrying a bunch of different warheads to spread out the damage, but again, still pretty confined. A city block? Maybe two?

A nuke can level a city.

There's not a lot of subjectivity here. There's a massive difference in scale. You can claim "but it's subjective!" all you want but you're only convincing yourself.

So you don't make a distinction between "superweapon" and "weapon of mass destruction"?

The breadth and scope of a superweapon'ds devastation is not dependent on how many people have one. There is no "when everyone has one nobody has one". It doesn't work like that. Instead, it works like "everybody has one and that's really bad because they're still superweapons".

The issue we have is that you define superweapon as dependent on a level of destruction while I define it as dependent on the advantage it gives you over the enemy. In a war fought with bows and arrows arrow-proof armours would be superweapons because the enemy would be unable to hurt your troops and you'd win every battle, even though the armors do no damage by themselves, until the enemy manages to copy your armours at which point they would cease to be superweapons because the playing field is level again. Do you see what I mean?

I would recommend that you don't take life lessons to apply blindly to any situation from cartoon characters.

I was making a movie reference, why are you angry?

[Metastachydium]

The issue we have is that you define superweapon as dependent on a level of destruction while I define it as dependent on the advantage it gives you over the enemy. In a war fought with bows and arrows arrow-proof armours would be superweapons because the enemy would be unable to hurt your troops and you'd win every battle, even though the armors do no damage by themselves,

(I shall busy myself quietly protesting the notion that armour is a weapon.)

until the enemy manages to copy your armours at which point they would cease to be superweapons because the playing field is level again. Do you see what I mean?

That's whiteroom thinking. Often enough, actual gamechanger technology might end up employed by more than one faction, but it keeps functioning as a power multiplier for those factions indefinitely all the same, allowing them to gatekkep access to the technology.

[Fyraltari]

(I shall busy myself quietly protesting the notion that armour is a weapon.)

Defensive weapon, if you want to get technical*, in any case it's a tool of war.

That's whiteroom thinking. Often enough, actual gamechanger technology might end up employed by more than one faction, but it keeps functioning as a power multiplier for those factions indefinitely all the same, allowing them to gatekkep access to the technology.

Sure, when everyone has a tank, tanks are still useful, but they don't decide the victor alone anymore.


*Though this might be a false-friend, as I see wikipedia has a French-language page on defensive weapons, but not an English one.

[Anonymouswizard]

I have no idea what this means please elaborate. I can't help because I cannot parse any of what was just said beyond "no milk plz".

To quote a classic song, 'I ate the cheese and the cheese won'.

An atomic nuclear missile can destroy a whole city.

In terms of absolute annihilation? It really depends on the city. Even just turning most of it into rubble is questionable.

In terms of grinding everything to a standstill? Yeah, I highly recommend the Kurzegesagt video on the consequences of a nuclear stroke, but it is depressing. Cheer yourself up with their nuking the Mariana Trench video afterwards, it gets across the sheer scale of nature.

[Metastachydium]

Defensive weapon, if you want to get technical*, in any case it's a tool of war.

A tool of war: yes; a weapon: no. (This might indeed be a French thing.)

Sure, when everyone has a tank, tanks are still useful, but they don't decide the victor alone anymore.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about weapons that most states/factions/whatever can't have, but not (merely; the costs involverd might be prohibitive) in the sense that they wouldn't be able to produce them, but rather because they are not allowed to do so by people who already have it. Think of nuclear weapons, for instance.

[Peelee]

So you don't make a distinction between "superweapon" and "weapon of mass destruction"?

No. WMDs, colloquially, can include gases, and legally can include things as trivial as a short-barreled shotgun.

Currently I consider nuclear bombs as superweapons, and not much else that we have (that I am aware of). WMD status regardless.

I was making a movie reference, why are you angry?

1.) I'm not angry at all
2.) You weren't making a movie reference, you were using a movie reference to make a point. I was pointing out that such a point is not applicable in any given circumstance while noting that the source should have given one pause to realize this already.

[theangelJean]

I have no idea what this means please elaborate. I can't help because I cannot parse any of what was just said beyond "no milk plz".

Are you talking about the "Targarean" bit (which I am wondering if it was meant to be "Targaryen")? I picked up on it but am also not sure what Anonymouswizard meant.

Chapter 5! Saila and Noble make their way to their next destination, Samudr-tat. Saila dances up a storm, and Noble meets some lovely individuals. You can read it here!

Still reading!

For some stupid reason, this is my first time perusing media with a main character who is trans in a universe that still others them for it.* ** And it's interesting to see which bits take on additional meaning/work better because of that. And of course I have to second guess myself and wonder if I'm just reading too much into it.

Spoiler: Mist & Fire

Show

When Noble picks up danger signals in the hotel, my first thought was that they'd clocked Saila. I don't know if we were supposed to have that additional apprehension, but it did add to the actual subversion of Noble's expectations.

I'm assuming I don't need to have read your other Cursed World work for background on this novel? I did stumble across it while searching, but didn't realise it was the same setting due to the time shift. And the mention of ONY upthread, that started the whole weapons discussion, had me lost.

* I've read plenty of speculative fiction that treats gender in different ways, but always as a built-in part of the universe, with general acceptance being the norm.
** Recommendations welcome. I've been meaning to check out the new Doctor Who podcast, but I have to work out how, first. That's assuming that, being set in "our world plus", it reflects the current climate, which is definitely not one of general acceptance.

[LaZodiac]

Are you talking about the "Targarean" bit (which I am wondering if it was meant to be "Targaryen")? I picked up on it but am also not sure what Anonymouswizard meant.

Still reading!

For some stupid reason, this is my first time perusing media with a main character who is trans in a universe that still others them for it.* ** And it's interesting to see which bits take on additional meaning/work better because of that. And of course I have to second guess myself and wonder if I'm just reading too much into it.

Spoiler: Mist & Fire

Show

When Noble picks up danger signals in the hotel, my first thought was that they'd clocked Saila. I don't know if we were supposed to have that additional apprehension, but it did add to the actual subversion of Noble's expectations.

I'm assuming I don't need to have read your other Cursed World work for background on this novel? I did stumble across it while searching, but didn't realise it was the same setting due to the time shift. And the mention of ONY upthread, that started the whole weapons discussion, had me lost.

* I've read plenty of speculative fiction that treats gender in different ways, but always as a built-in part of the universe, with general acceptance being the norm.
** Recommendations welcome. I've been meaning to check out the new Doctor Who podcast, but I have to work out how, first. That's assuming that, being set in "our world plus", it reflects the current climate, which is definitely not one of general acceptance.

Yup, that's the thing I didn't quite get!

For what it's worth, acceptance of that stuff is very common in my setting- it's actually weirder when people are bigoted, it just still happens sometimes.

Honestly that's wonderful to hear. That shows you're getting engaged, and I think that's rad as hell.

Nope, none of the other novels are required for reading and understanding Mist and Fire. It might alter your reading a bit if you do, but if I'm going to make a side-story I'm going to make it so that you don't need to follow the main series to get it. So no worries, you don't need to read the main series to get what's going on.

The talk about ONY and weapons and stuff is just a bunch of... I guess enfranchised readers discussing fine world minutia in the way I've always dreamed, so I'm going to lay down now because "oh man people might actually like my stuff???"

To quote a classic song, 'I ate the cheese and the cheese won'.

The fate of every lactos intolerant person is to live dangerously and eat the cheese.

[Rater202]

"oh man people might actually like my stuff???"

So today my mother asked me if a book I was interested in had come out yet.

We had a bit of a misunderstanding, which has since been clarified, but apparently, she's under the impression that a book you wrote would be worth $76 American on Amazon.

[Bartmanhomer]

Is raising a dragon (hatchling) easy or difficult for humans?

[halfeye]

Is raising a dragon (hatchling) easy or difficult for humans?

Depends on the story.

[Bartmanhomer]

Depends on the story.

Well, I'm writing a story of two fathers who're married and they raised a baby gold dragon together.

[LaZodiac]

So today my mother asked me if a book I was interested in had come out yet.

We had a bit of a misunderstanding, which has since been clarified, but apparently, she's under the impression that a book you wrote would be worth $76 American on Amazon.

Well, that's certainly lovely to hear she thinks I'm worth that much!

Also I almost didn't realize this was me you quoted because my brain is tired and the quote said it was you oops.

[Rater202]

Well, that's certainly lovely to hear she thinks I'm worth that much!

Also, I almost didn't realize this was me you quoted because my brain is tired and the quote said it was you oops.

So I did try and quote one of my own posts earlier but I thought better of it and, upon noticing it was still quoted, erased it.

Must have made some kind of editing goof.

[theangelJean]

For what it's worth, acceptance of that stuff is very common in my setting- it's actually weirder when people are bigoted, it just still happens sometimes.

And that's fair enough, depending on the story you want to tell. You don't want to write about bigots all the time, and I certainly wish their attitude didn't exist. Lots of storytellers gloss over gender discrimination, and bigotry in their stories happens against robots or aliens instead. But if I'm reading about anti-trans bigotry as experienced by a main character, and realising it's the first time I've read a story where it matters, then clearly I need to broaden my horizons.

[LaZodiac]

And that's fair enough, depending on the story you want to tell. You don't want to write about bigots all the time, and I certainly wish their attitude didn't exist. Lots of storytellers gloss over gender discrimination, and bigotry in their stories happens against robots or aliens instead. But if I'm reading about anti-trans bigotry as experienced by a main character, and realising it's the first time I've read a story where it matters, then clearly I need to broaden my horizons.

I think the issue here is that you'll be kinda hard pressed to find... any, media with trans main characters. I can think of like, the smallest handful of TV shows and that's about it.

[Lord Raziere]

I think the issue here is that you'll be kinda hard pressed to find... any, media with trans main characters. I can think of like, the smallest handful of TV shows and that's about it.

Yeah, to get those, you have hunt to fan fics or obscure books and webcomics no one has ever heard of. and any fan fic that goes in depth probably won't be the happiest read in the world.

[theangelJean]

Ahh. I knew they were scarce, but I didn't think it was as bad as that. I certainly didn't think I'd be ahead of the game being able to think of one that got some publicity.

Oh well. Time to listen to Doctor Who: Redacted. Anyone else tried it?

[DavidSh]

Yeah, to get those, you have hunt to fan fics or obscure books and webcomics no one has ever heard of. and any fan fic that goes in depth probably won't be the happiest read in the world.

I'll note that one of the Hugo Award finalists for Best Novel this past year had a trans main character. I'll admit a novel doesn't count as "media", but I don't think the Hugo Awards are obscure.

[Fyraltari]

I'll admit a novel doesn't count as "media"

I beg all of your pardons?

[theangelJean]

Back. Doctor Who: Redacted - eminently bingeable. If you don't want the characters appearing in each episode spoiled before you get to them, then don't open the "read more" on each page until you get to the credits.

Thanks for that, DavidSH, I'll take a look.

[enderlord99]

I beg all of your pardons?

It's one medium, not several.

[Anonymouswizard]

It's one medium, not several.

Is that where there's so few haunted books?

[DavidSh]

Thanks for that, DavidSH, I'll take a look.

To be specific, Light From Uncommon Stars by Ryka Aoki. It also includes violins and donuts.