Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XL

[daremetoidareyo]

And to think I expected my build to be one of the weirder ones...

They start weird and continue being weird until they finish weird

[Inevitability]

Do we have a judge?

[daremetoidareyo]

Do we have a judge?

I think not

[Inevitability]

As there still isn't a judge here, I'm offering to withdraw my entry and judge, but I'd like to see at least someone else offer to judge the Monster Mash, Iron Chef , Junkyard Wars or Villainous Competition (whatever they don't have an entry in!), because all of these need judges as well. If it helps, they all have a relatively low (5-6) number of entries.

Ideally, multiple of those get judged, but I'm willing to judge here as long as one person steps forward.

[loky1109]

I'll try to start judging IC this Sunday.

Upd: Aaaand. My HM vote for Naa'it Sabes.

[H_H_F_F]

Sorry guys. I've had basically 0 free time lately, and just is it has freed up for a week... recent events leeched away all my willpower and motivation for pretty much everything.

[Inevitability]

Spoiler: Judging criteria

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All scores start at 1.

Originality
First, let's see what you're cooking with. Up to 1 point for originality of your classes and 0.5 points for your race. For class, do you avoid obvious shoe-ins like druid, poison use rogue, shaper psion, and ninja? Do you pick a barely-used base class, or even work your way into something more prestigious? For race, human and strongheart halfling give you 0 points, anything with solid racial support (elves, dwarves) or obvious poison synergy gets 0.25, everything else gives 0.5.

Feats are a big part of E6 building and I want to showcase them, so 1.5 points for their originality: do you just pick filler and straightforwardly good stuff, or are you exploring some more obscure feat chain here? As a rule of thumb, for each feat that truly wows me you're guaranteed 0.25 here. Obviously it has to meaningfully interact with your build to count, but I don't see that coming up.

The remaining 1 point is for your overall fluff, description, and feel. Do I feel like I'm looking at something truly unique here, or is it just the five required story beats thrown in a blender? You can't write 'character build' without character!

Power
What's the in-combat potential of your character, assuming encounters against 'typical' foes (weak humanoids with martial class levels, a big brute, a mobile caster with meatshields). Can you contribute to an acceptable extent against each of those? 1.5 points if you do.

Out of combat, besides crafting/harvesting poison, how can you contribute to the party? Up to 1 point here. In general, if you fulfill one of the big roles (face, trapfinder, scout, healer, utility mage), that's 0.5 points guaranteed. If you fit in another of those boxes, or have enough random odds and ends to convince me that you'll typically be useful, that's another 0.5 points.

Can you overcome the classic issues that poison-users face? Constructs and undead are the big points here, but elementals, oozes, and plants will also be looked at (if you rely on crafting poison and have a good modifier, I'm going to say you can conceivably brew up something for oozes and plants specifically). Up to 1.5 points for mitigating this major weakness.

Builds that primarily use high-tier classes will be judged more harshly than those that don't. A weak wizard is less powerful than a strong monk, even if the wizard can do anything the monk can do.

Elegance
1 point for avoiding multiclass penalties.

1 point if your build works out on the mechanical level. Do you meet each prereq? Do you correctly list your skills? Are you interpreting the rules in a way that's just straight-up, indefensibly wrong? An error that only impacts minor aspects of your build earns you a penalty in this section only, something that prevents the entire build from working results in 0 elegance.

1 point if your build works out on the meta level. Will the DM permit it? Do you rely on controversial interpretations of the rules, on shenanigans like 1d43 scorpion whips, or on variant rules that not every campaign might use? Worshipping elder evils for feats, cityscape's social class, and faustian pacts all get you points deducted here.

1 point if your build works out on the game level. Could your character, realistically and reliably, advance from level 1 to epic while meeting all the fluff requirements, alignment shifts, and template acquisitions? Straight up 0 points here if your build requires some spells above 3rd level, even when monsters with the required innate casting exist in-game: this is E6 and avoiding its constraints is nothing if not inelegant.

UoSI
From what level can you actually, reliably, make use of poison in a notable way? A standard duskblade build that squeezes in Master of Poisons as its fifth epic feat will not have my sympathy, no matter how many cool things you do with it afterwards. Let's say level 1-3 gives you 1 point, level 4-6 half that, and epic levels get zero points.

How much do the poisonous parts of your build do for you? If I removed the poison from your build, how much would your character suffer? Up to 1 point to actually making it an integral part of your strategy, rather than a little bonus that can be removed with no further cost.

How much do the non-poison parts of your build synergize with the poison ones? Are you investing resources to make your poison better, directly and indirectly? Mostly to counterbalance casters, I'll be looking for meaningful sacrifices here: a cleric can fill all of their spell slots with poison-related stuff, but that's less of a build decision than, say, feats and class features. Up to 1 point.

(The above two criteria are a bit similar so to give some examples: a bog-standard wizard 6 who invests all of their feats in making poison would score really high on the second point, but low on the first: they focused their build around poison, but it still fails to be the most important part of them. On the contrary, a druid with a venomfire fleshraker is getting a TON out of poison, but isn't actually dedicating build resources to it, and thus has the opposite problem)

Lastly, do you do anything really cool with poison? Do you have a truly unique approach to the concept as a whole, or is it just more of the 'craft nasty stuff, apply nasty stuff, hit people' that any rogue can do? 1 point to be gained here.

i'll judge faster if more people offer to judge elsewhere

[loky1109]

Sorry guys. I've had basically 0 free time lately, and just is it has freed up for a week... recent events leeched away all my willpower and motivation for pretty much everything.

I think we could manage it.
Real life goes first. Take care of yourself.

[Inevitability]

Alright judgement is upon y'all or whatever

seriously though.

Spoiler: Modayn Mo'problums (13)

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Originality (3)
Druid is pretty obvious as far as poison-using classes go, but any E6 build that can incorporate a prestige class is original in my book (+0.5). Warforged is one of the easier ways to get poison immunity, so I kind of expected it too, but it's no human. (+0.25)

Your feats don't consistently impress me. Three pickings of Extra Slot make it seem like you ran out of ideas, Stable Footing is oddball but it doesn't seem to do all that much for you (how often do you want to wade into the enemy-filled Entangle zones?). Necropolis Born and Eldeen Plantgrafter are the winners here, as is the ultra-obscure Spellbinder. Everything else together gets you the final 0.5, for a total of (+1.25).

There's no real character here, save for a vague focus on forests. (+0)

Power (3.25)
You're a druid without wild shape, spontaneous summoning, or one of the big animal companions. In return, you've obtained a slight AC bonus, some bonuses in forests, and a fire elemental. I'm pretty comfortable calling that a negative trade-off. That said, those AoEs you can magic up look nightmarish, so even if your focus is narrow, I acknowledge how strong you are in your element. (+1)

Out of combat, you're again less capable than a regular druid would be. You can still serve as a fine healbot, or dig up some magic to help out with a puzzle or obstacle, but crippled druid levels alone aren't enough to get a full score here. (+0.5)

Your plan against constructs and undead is... Flash Frost Entangles that reduce speed, without any of the poison/fatigue shenanigans. That's a solid level of BFC, but it's only BFC, and incorporeal undead can basically ignore all of it. Elementals are also a bit of an issue, especially if they fly or have earth glide, and a few oozes will dissolve your plants with a touch. Going to be generous and give (+0.75).

Elegance (2.25)
No multiclass penalties. (+1)

Your submission feels slightly incomplete. A bunch of class features, even relevant ones, are unlisted. Fengut, which seems to be an exclusive sorc/wiz spell, appears on your spell list without explanation. You also have to select a climate type if your Favored Environment is forest, which you fail to do. Speaking of Favored Environment, I'm unconvinced that you can take it as a non-ranger, even if you obtain Favored Enemy somehow. (+0.25)

Here's the thing: your build makes a very broad assumption about how entangle works. Yes, the spell says that local plants might affect the effect. It doesn't say your pet hallucinogens will grow in relevant numbers, or how far they'll extend from your body (assuming you're including yourself in the area at all), or that haphazardly throwing hot water on a living plant is at all equivalent to carefully steeping ground and dried leaves.

Even if your DM is crazy enough to allow the central trick, can you guarantee access to a variety of highly rare plants? You don't just enter Landforged Walker and instantly obtain your botanic perils of choice: you select a terrain and then grow unspecified plants native to it. Eldeen Plantgrafter similarly requires you to have access to a number of rare fungi and trees, which your campaign might not include.

UoSI (4.5)
You have some quasi-poisonous options early on, and probably some obscure spells not listed on your sheet, but big poison magic doesn't come until level 5, and your trick has to wait until level 6. You're not without poison at low levels, but I wouldn't call it your best use of an action until quite a while later. (+0.5)

Poison is an integral part of what you do and how you do it. (+1)

You have clearly expended significant resources to make your core concept work, and even where you're boosting Entangle moreso than poison, it still benefits your poisons in a straightforward way. (+1)

Your approach to poisons (hostile tea ceremony) is unique and noteworthy. (+1)

Spoiler: Naa'it Sabes (25)

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Perfect build, obtaining max points in all four categories plus a fifth, secret one.

In unrelated news, I retract my submission.

Spoiler: Najka Valukar (13.75)

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Originality (2.75)
A level of cleric is the barest sprinkle of seasoning on the bland fare of druidhood. (+0.25) Half-Drow is on the obscure end of mainstream, but if you're doing a poison build it's not exactly mind-blowing to see. (+0.25)

Your feats are so-so. Lolth's Caress is interesting, as are Blessed of Vulkoor and the Poison+Smiting Spell combination, but the remaining bits are all pretty straightforward goodstuff. (+0.75)

A solid bit of fluff, more suggestive than entralling, but successful in making me feel like this is more than a tier 1 caster dipping into another. (+0.5)

Power (3)
Not a reason you lost points, but why take the level of cleric at 5th? I get that you take 4 levels of druid first, to get the scorpion, but why delay the final level? Do you really think the domains are more useful than 3rd-level spells and Wild Shape?

Anyway, if everything goes well you're hitting people with a weapon, two poison doses, and a spell. The issue is action economy: setting up a smiting spell and hitting someone with it takes two turns, and the smite sticks around for only one minute; I feel like a poison spell into a poisoned weapon attack is more efficient, without bringing smiting spell into it at all.

On the plus side, Lolth's Caress + Crystal Scorpion Venom is nasty, and you're perfectly set up to exploit it... but it again takes two turns. Wild Shape, again, a turn to set up before you can beat face, and the cleric dip makes you miss out on an use. I'm just not seeing a character here that can act swiftly: having a list of prepared spells would be helpful. Ultimately, when I ask myself whether you are going to outshine a regular 6th-level druid, I'm inclined to say 'no'. (+0.5)

You have a daily use of wild shape and solid perceptive skills, which I'm gonna say qualifies you as a scout. You also got random bits of druid magic and the early part of the cleric list. Still, you don't really improve on what your base classes naturally gain here. (+0.75)

If anything immune to poison shows up, you can send a bear at it, or poorly rebuke undead, but given the power you were cooking with I feel a little unimpressed here. (+0.75)

Elegance (3.75)
The favored class of half-drow protects you from XP penalties. (+1)

Technically, Master of Poisons doesn't qualify you for Poison Expert and Poison Master, as it simply gives the effect of Poison Use without providing the ability itself. (+0.25)

Nothing here that'd make a DM throw books at your head, but I'd like to get a bit of a clearer picture of the spells that you plan on channeling. (+0.5)

Seems like a straightforward, practical character to play. (+1)


UoSI (4.25)
You have a venomous animal companion from level 1 on. (+1)

Poison interacts with your combat routine in various meaningful ways. (+1)

You can, on the face of it, apply poison through magic, you can send in your animal companion to poison people... and yet it's often impractical to apply, and I wonder how often your in-combat turns will consist of firing off an Entangle or summoning a bear. (+0.5)

"Get an animal companion and harvest its venom" has been done, but you build on that to eventually apply two doses of poison in a single attack. (+0.75)

Spoiler: Nyx (11.25)

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Originality (3.25)
Rogue is the single most obvious class to go for. Factotum makes sense in a hindsight-is-2020 sort of way, as does chameleon... but I wouldn't have predicted them, have some points (+0.75). Boring ole human, on the other hand, is something I look a lot less favorably upon. (+0)

Fiendish Legacy is new to me, but seems a bit redundant with your casting. A lot of those other feats are also pretty common. Still, I like it when people go all in on some feat chain in E6, and you certainly do that, so have (+0.5).

You've straight-up written an entire short story to go with the build. Respectable. (+1)

Power (2)
Is this a flurry build? The natural weapons suggest so, but your only per-hit damage bonus is poison, and your attack bonus is in the gutter (no Multiattack, +3 BAB, 10 strength). Is it a tripper? Then where's the combat reflexes? Iaijutsu Focus abuser? Perhaps, but that's two or three d6s of damage, requires flat-footed foes, and eats your move action for draws. A straightforward poison user? Even that's an issue, because you have no way to quickly apply it once the first dose has worn off. You put a lot of emphasis on Haste, but it's actually not great for you: even if you get the buff applied and manage to Full Attack something, your second weapon hit won't have any poison, strength bonus, or sneak attack added on. One gets the impression you're an assassin because anything that fights back is too much trouble.

That said, out of combat you're a potent face with all the useful utility to be found on low-level caster lists. (+1)

What's your plan for Elementals? Constructs? Undead, god forbid? Outside of minimal casting, which you don't elaborate on, I'm not seeing anything.

Elegance (3)
No multiclass penalties. (+1)

Your build stub says you're a human paragon. Your build table says you're a martial rogue, your saves suggests something that grants high Will, your sources only list rogue, and your writeup seems to imply both. Also, if you're a martial rogue, as I ended up assuming, you're short a bonus feat. Enough of a mess for me to give zero points for mechanics.

If getting a free feat from a flaw is worth -1 elegance, getting two free feats from an elder evil shouldn't be any less.

No major issues for playing this ingame, you even include a clever trick to ensure access to spell scrolls. (+1)

UoSI (3)
Poison comes online at level 4. (+0.5)

I hesitate to say poison is what makes you viable, but it's certainly your main source of in-combat damage (outside of perhaps Iaijutsu Focus). (+1)

I can see the logic in going the natural weapons route to deliver more poison attacks, but you only drop 2-3 feats on poison, with useful spells as an afterthought. (+0.25)

I like the visual of launching poisoned natural weapons with Blood Wind. Outside of that, I got nothing. (+0.25)

Spoiler: Sabina Daisy Atis (11.5)

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Well, this build sure looks... anthro-sting!!! get it like interesting

Originality (3.75)
Anthropomorphic terrestrial stingray. (+0.5) I'm not going to reward two levels in two dip classes with a full point of originality, but monk is a genuine surprise, so have (+0.75).

Barbed Stinger, Multigrab, Spear of Doom, Hold the Line, Snatch Arrows? Yeah, there's a lot of stuff here to wow me. (+1.5)

How did the stingrays learn to walk the earth? What motivates their fishy brains? What made one reject its base animal impulses, and turn its flat face to Lawfulness and Goodness? These questions are not answered.

Power (2.25)
Your poison DC is decently high (though it doesn't key off of HD, just RHD, and is thus two points lower), and its effect is very nasty. You got good saves, evasion, and snatch arrows. Movement is a weak point here, as your speed is on the low side (arguably only 20 ft.). A bigger issue is the fact that, even when terrestrially adapted, you're still aquatic and dependent on water. Given that you want to use thrown weapons, you're probably not planning for an aquatic campaign... so how are you not suffocating? Still, if you can get up close with the enemies, they're going to be in trouble. (+1)

Out of combat, you contribute basically nothing.

Against poison-immune foes, you can serve as an okay hands-free grappler that keeps the foes from getting to the casters, or maybe frustrate their approach with ranged pin... but elementals and constructs aren't exactly known for wearing clothes. Immobilizing a single enemy just doesn't cut it, especially when that enemy might be made out of fire, or incorporeal, or acidic. (+0.25)

Elegance (1)
I could talk about a lot of things here. The multiclass XP penalties you almost definitely incur. The difficult relationship between being Exalted good and using ability-damaging poison. The fact that Spear of Doom probably doesn't work with Hold the Line. However, none of that matters, because anthropomorphic animals from outside the MM have no listed LA, and cannot be used as PCs. This disqualifies the central part of your build and results in an automatic minimum elegance score. (I'm not sure if a score of 0 is allowed in this specific competition, but if so, I'm assigning that instead)

UotSI (4.5)
Poison from level 2 on. (+1)

Poison is core to the strategy. (+1)

You got feats that exploit your poison's nauseating effect, feats that exploit its delivery method, that straight-up strengthen it, and that combo to let it become a near-total lockdown. (+1)

Ultimately, 'have a poisonous natural attack and hit people with it' isn't reinventing the wheel, but the Ranged Pin trick is neat. (+0.5)

Spoiler: Xul (14)

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Originality (3.75)
Diablerie Necromancer (+1). No points for human, though.

The undead creation feats alone are surprising enough for me to put (+1.5) here.

The barest vestiges of fluff. (+0.25)

Power (2.75)
Well, you're creating some very souped-up undead or blowing up corpses, and while there's a few question marks in acquiring and transporting the corpses (you can't quite assume you'll always have access, but it's close), things seem pretty well-covered on that front. Your spell slots aren't exactly plentiful either, though relying mostly on a low-level spell helps. I do feel like the undead are a bit underwhelming when you're not actively getting them blown up, though. (+1)

Out of combat, you can... make knowledge checks, I guess? (+0.25)

Poison isn't the biggest part of this build, but you still dislike seeing it go vs immune foes. Your spell pool doesn't have the width to deal with something like a ghost or construct very efficiently. I guess you have some okay blasting, though. (+0.5)

Elegance (5)
No multiclass penalties. (+1)

Mechanically I have questions, but they aren't questions your build could have avoided. (+1)

No issues. (+1)

Taking this from level 1 to epic should go smoothly. (+1)

UoSI (2.5)
Poison is available from level 4 on. (+0.5)

The impact of poison dagger on the build is minimal. Yes, you are in theory inflicting some constitution damage with Poison Dagger, but let's face it, you could do just fine hanging back and animating stuff: going into melee is actively antisynergistic with your undead meatshields. (+0.25)

The build helps out its poisonous component in minor ways. Knowledge Devotion adds to attack rolls with the poisonous dagger, and Fearsome Necromancy adds a save-or-be-shaken on top of it. (+0.5)

Poisoned weapons are the easy way to fulfill the concept, but at least yours is created by magic. (+0.25)

Spoiler: Zashi (13.25)

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Originality (3)
I'm sure some binders can work with poison, but it sure doesn't quickly come to mind. (+1) Similarly, full points for the anthro huge viper. (+0.5)

Most of your feats are pretty standard for AoO fishers. Still, the flanking subfocus and Clever Opportunist earn you points here. (+0.5)

No points for fluff. (+0)

Power (2.75)
Nine AoOs a round and 15 ft. reach make you a pain to get up to and a pain to get past. I do question your ability to actually get in the front, as you have 20 ft. speed and no special movement options, which also makes Dance of Death a lot less powerful than it'd normally be. Are you going to full action run, just to position yourself t1? At least once you're in melee you can reliably force flanks with sky-high tumble and Adaptable Flanker. That said, anything ranged is a huge problem, though flight is at least mitigated by your climb speed and Spit Venom.

Another issue is DR: even low amounts of DR can already negate all damage from your bite, and with it the poison. Against those foes, you're exclusively on crowd control duty, though you're admittedly still quite good at that. (+1)

I don't feel too good about your out-of-combat prowess. Despite good perceptive skills and alternate movement you're not really a scout: stealth is low, trapfinding is nonexistent, and if you encounter trouble you can't outrun it. Being a watchmen or lie detector isn't useless, but often you'll be relegated to the sidelines. (+0.25)

Undead will at least get hit by Golden Ice, but constructs? Elementals? Plants? You can hit them a few times with a bite attack, but 1d4+1 is not a lot of damage! Large and In Charge only gets you so far, especially with your middling strength. (+0.5)

Elegance (3.25)
No multiclass XP penalties. (+1)

Skill points are weird around 4th and 5th level: minor penalty. Improved Binding requires 4 Intimidate ranks, which you lack. (+0.25)

I'm also sceptical that being a humanoid snake qualifies you for extended reach, especially as you seem to want to use it with a bite. Maybe the snake-neck counts as tentacle-like, but a DM would be well within their rights to refuse. (+0.5)

You tried to double-dip and get Touch of Golden Ice along with your poison. I have no issue with Neutral characters using poison, and I'm even willing to let Good ones slide if the fluff is okay... but Exalted Good? Realistically, you lose a solid chunk of your powers the first time you bite something. (+0.5)

UoSI (4.25)
Poison is part of your gameplan from level 3 on. (+1)

You're definitely using poison as a core part of your strategy. (+1)

The non-poison parts of your build are a fairly standard big scary AoO-fisher, which helps out the poison remarkably well. (+1)

Nothing really unique in the way you use the SI, a poison bite with spit venom for minimal variety. (+0.25)

Spoiler: Zhu (13)

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Originality (3.5)
Athach Athach. (+1.5)

Feats are pretty standard for something that focuses on poison, but the unarmed focus comes as a surprise. (+0.5)

I like the little bit of fluff, it's quite charming. (+0.5)

Power (1.5)
On the one hand, you got top-notch strength and a bite. On the other, you only have +4 BAB, and you're triple-wielding relatively weak unarmed strikes, all without an easy mechanism for re-applying poison. I really question your decision to go the unarmed route here, and I don't really understand what it's getting you that multiple manufactured weapons wouldn't. A bunch of your feats seem pointless: will secondary damage ever roll around for Deadly Poison to matter? Is Rapid Metabolism worth a feat, when nearly every party should have a wand of lesser vigor by that point? Comparing you to an equal-level brute, I just can't in good conscience award points here.

No real out-of-combat role here.

Against poison-immune foes, you can... hit them, I guess? Versatile Unarmed Strike helps with the DR of zombies and skeletons, but I was hoping you'd have a better plan than 'punch the acid blob'. (+0.5)

Elegance (4)
No multiclass penalties. (+1)

Mechanically, I don't think that 'applying poison to a weapon' is quite equivalent to 'holding your fists out while you breathe toxic mist on them'. (+0.5)

The rules are extremely unclear on whether or not unarmed strikes can even be dual-wielded. Your build relies on a certain ruling, which not all DMs might replicate. (+0.5)

No awkward character progressions. (+1)

UoSI (4)
Poison comes online at level 3. (+1)

Poison matters for your functionality, but I can't bring myself to say it matters much. (+0.5)

Your build is clearly dedicated to enabling poison, making it work with unarmed strikes, turning it into a ranged option, etc. (+1)

Poisoning a weapon isn't innovative, but putting it on your own fists is a neat twist on the concept. (+0.5)

A few ties, let's hope disputes (or, imagine this, a second judge) break them.

[The Viscount]

Thank you for judging, Inevitability! We really appreciate it.

[loky1109]

Naa'it Sabes (25): Perfect build, obtaining max points in all four categories plus a fifth, secret one.
In unrelated news, I retract my submission.

Upd: Aaaand. My HM vote for Naa'it Sabes.

Like looking out into the universe!

Thank you for judging!

---

Updated table!

Name	Alignment / Race	Class Levels	Chef	Inevitability	Total	Place
Modayn Mo'problums	TN Warforged	Deadly Hunter Favored Environment Spontaneous Affliction Fire Elemental Companion Druid 5/Landforged Walker 1		13.00	13.00	3rd
Naa'it Sabes	TN (ex-familiar) Hairy Spider	Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 1		-	-	N/A
Najka Valukar	NE Half-Drow	Druid 5/Cleric of Vulkoor 1		13.75	13.75	1st
Nyx, pt. 2	CE Human	Factotum 3/Drow Martial Rogue 2/Chameleon 1		11.25	11.25	5th
Sabina Daisy Atis	LG Anthropomorphic Terrestrially Adapted Stingray	Hit and Run Fighter 2/Monk 2		11.50	11.50	4th
Master Necromancer Xul	TN Human	Necromancer 6		13.25	13.25	2nd
Zashi	?? Anthropomorphic Huge Viper	Binder 3		13.25	13.25	2nd
Clever Girl Zhu	CN Athach	-		13.00	13.00	3rd

[MinimanMidget]

Thanks for judging, Inevitability! We are grateful for your sacrifice. No disputes from me.

[Inevitability]

In case our chair Zaq isn't reading through all the judgings, the two things I'd still like clarification on are:

-Is the minimum score in a category always 1, or can I give 0 for builds that are unambiguously illegal?
-Is the Diablerie book at all allowed?

[H_H_F_F]

A sad day; I'm sorry it came to this. I thought your entry was very fun, Inevitability. I didn't participate in this round - but thanks for judging, anyway.

[daremetoidareyo]

Many thanks inevitability. If you wish, I can score yours tomorrow night so that you have feedback

[Venger]

Thanks for judging. No disputes.

[Zarvistic]

Thank you for judging. No disputes here either.

[loky1109]

I see Zaq is AFK.

[loky1109]

Somebody should do this.

Spoiler: Naa'it Sabes

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It isn't precisely judging, I'll not give you numbers, just say some words.

Spoiler: Originality

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Hairy Spider. Who not hear about it? Many people really don't, but not the point. It is that stupid example of WotC poor editing. And you had the courage to use it. This is me praising you.
Ex-familiar. It isn't unknown ruleset at least foe me. I used it in the Junkyard Wars XXXV, but as storyteller, not as PC. It's cool. How both this parts work together.
Druid for this round is pretty expectable. Planar Shepherd not so much. It's prestige class in E6 and I don't know Eberron well.
Your feats isn't mind-blowing as like as your general tactic.

Spoiler: Power

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Venomfire Deadly Spittle Druid? Oh yes! It's very powerful. But you didn't stop at this. You have Energy Substitution, you have Wild Shape, with your size you can be well scout. Your saves (even Reflex) are not bad, your AC good, your hp looks slightly above average. Your damage potential isn't great until 6th level, you're not made for melee. But after you became powerhouse.
You have healing options, good out-of-fight spell options, Wild Empathy, useful skills (while you aren't true skill monkey).
You were supposed to get a perfect score here. Maybe only early levels let you down.

Spoiler: Elegance

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You knew about issues when you wrote your entry. It are the same things that'd gave you big score in the Originality: Hairy Spider and Ex-familiar. Yes, they works better together than they could work apart. Surprisingly, together them cause much less questions. But there still are issues. Hairy Spider is just someone’s mocking on the rules. Ex-familiar wasn't create as PC option. DM should fine-tune it for real game. It's doable, but you can't get it out of the box and start playing right away.
Plus Reserves of Strength isn't Eberron feat. As like as your spit feats. Three different settings can be too much.

Spoiler: UoSI

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Okay. Poison. Well, you have it and you use it from the very beginning. Plus poisonous varies Animal Companions. Latter, with Wild Shape, you obtained different poisons, not only you innate. You have feats that improves you poison, or improves your spells that improves your poison, or improve you Wild Shape that give you new poisons.
Maybe it isn't clear 5, but very close.

Inevitability thank you again! For judging and for your entry!

[Inevitability]

Somebody should do this.

Spoiler: Naa'it Sabes

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It isn't precisely judging, I'll not give you numbers, just say some words.

Spoiler: Originality

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Hairy Spider. Who not hear about it? Many people really don't, but not the point. It is that stupid example of WotC poor editing. And you had the courage to use it. This is me praising you.
Ex-familiar. It isn't unknown ruleset at least foe me. I used it in the Junkyard Wars XXXV, but as storyteller, not as PC. It's cool. How both this parts work together.
Druid for this round is pretty expectable. Planar Shepherd not so much. It's prestige class in E6 and I don't know Eberron well.
Your feats isn't mind-blowing as like as your general tactic.

Spoiler: Power

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Venomfire Deadly Spittle Druid? Oh yes! It's very powerful. But you didn't stop at this. You have Energy Substitution, you have Wild Shape, with your size you can be well scout. Your saves (even Reflex) are not bad, your AC good, your hp looks slightly above average. Your damage potential isn't great until 6th level, you're not made for melee. But after you became powerhouse.
You have healing options, good out-of-fight spell options, Wild Empathy, useful skills (while you aren't true skill monkey).
You were supposed to get a perfect score here. Maybe only early levels let you down.

Spoiler: Elegance

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You knew about issues when you wrote your entry. It are the same things that'd gave you big score in the Originality: Hairy Spider and Ex-familiar. Yes, they works better together than they could work apart. Surprisingly, together them cause much less questions. But there still are issues. Hairy Spider is just someone’s mocking on the rules. Ex-familiar wasn't create as PC option. DM should fine-tune it for real game. It's doable, but you can't get it out of the box and start playing right away.
Plus Reserves of Strength isn't Eberron feat. As like as your spit feats. Three different settings can be too much.

Spoiler: UoSI

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Okay. Poison. Well, you have it and you use it from the very beginning. Plus poisonous varies Animal Companions. Latter, with Wild Shape, you obtained different poisons, not only you innate. You have feats that improves you poison, or improves your spells that improves your poison, or improve you Wild Shape that give you new poisons.
Maybe it isn't clear 5, but very close.

Inevitability thank you again! For judging and for your entry!

Thanks for the judging, I'm happy to at least get feedback on this one!

[Zaq]

Hey team, sorry I've been MIA. I won't bother with excuses, just apologies. Here's a single dispute.

Thank you for judging, Inevitability!

I have some disputes for you.

Spoiler

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Well, you're creating some very souped-up undead, or alternatively blowing up corpses, but it seems like actually getting those corpses is the tricky bit.

Well, if money can solve the problem, it is not a problem, it is an expense.
Donkey is medium creature and cost only 8 gp. Pig... We don't have any stats for it, but it clearly is at least small and costs 3 gp. Or goat for 1 gp. I don't claim I could raise skeleton from chicken's corps, but it maybe is possible. Medium creature limitation exists only in the Bone Armor's description. One chicken costs 2 cp.

I need to transport it all. Wagon costs 35 gp. Mules 8 gp each.

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Out of combat, you can... make knowledge checks, I guess? Yeah, as could be expected from a hack 'n slash-adapted class, there isn't much thought given to utility.

Well, I can make many different knowledge checks. Is it not worth something?

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I'm questioning the skills here. You rely on all knowledge skills being in-class, but the necromancer class entry ambiguously lists Knowledge(Arcana) and Knowledge, and the table on page 25 suggests that religion and nature, at least, are not class skills for the necromancer (even if it simultaneously suggests that Knowledge(Any) is). Like it or not, there's a little bit of ambiguity here, and a DM might rule against your interpretation. (+0.75)

I'm totally agree with your interpretation of necromancer's class skills. That's why I bought all my Knowledges, but arcana as cross-class skills. I think "Knowledge(Any)" could mean I can get any one Knowledge as in-class, but I didn't rely on it.

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Also, I'd like for the chair to comment on whether or not this source is valid.

It wasn't issue at least in preprevious round. These books were published directly by WotC, so

ALLOWED: Unupdated WotC-published 3.0 material (e.g., Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, etc.) except for 3.0 psionics.

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The impact of poison dagger on the build is minimal. Yes, you are in theory inflicting some constitution damage with Poison Dagger, but let's face it, you could do just fine hanging back and animating whatever the fighter kills. But still, it is your main way to attack when corpses are unavailable, so half points. (+0.5)

The build helps out its poisonous component in minor ways. Knowledge Devotion adds to attack rolls with the poisonous dagger, and Fearsome Necromancy adds a save-or-be-shaken on top of it. (+0.5)

Poisoned weapons are the easy way to fulfill the concept, but at least yours is created by magic. (+0.25)

I see you missed something.
My Returned Mages. Ranged touch poison attack with +3 AB (+2 from Necromantic Might) and 2d6 poison damage without any saves plus more 2d6 poison damage with Fort save. And I can have up to 14 of them. I think it is worth some points in the UoSI.

[H_H_F_F]

Welcome back, Zaq!

[Inevitability]

Hey team, sorry I've been MIA. I won't bother with excuses, just apologies. Here's a single dispute.

Welcome back Zaq! If you have any chairman opinions on my ability to assign 0 vs 1 elegance to illegal builds (specifically Sabina), please share them.

Well, if money can solve the problem, it is not a problem, it is an expense.
Donkey is medium creature and cost only 8 gp. Pig... We don't have any stats for it, but it clearly is at least small and costs 3 gp. Or goat for 1 gp. I don't claim I could raise skeleton from chicken's corps, but it maybe is possible. Medium creature limitation exists only in the Bone Armor's description. One chicken costs 2 cp.

I need to transport it all. Wagon costs 35 gp. Mules 8 gp each.

Interesting argument! I'd have liked to see this mentioned in the build entry itself, but I acknowledge the logic here. Relying on mundane mounts always feels a little shaky to me, but I suppose at high levels you can just buy some Talismans of the Disk and have basically the same effect. So yeah, have (+0.5) power here.

Unfortunately... this only pulls your build further away from poison. When waiting around for things to die isn't a factor, when are you using poison dagger? If it's before reanimating stuff, is that really a better use of your action than reanimating stuff? If it's after, why are you negating the prime advantage of undead hordes (that is, having something between the monsters and the caster). (-0.25) in UoSI.

Well, I can make many different knowledge checks. Is it not worth something?

In my judging criteria, I note:

Out of combat, besides crafting/harvesting poison, how can you contribute to the party? Up to 1 point here. In general, if you fulfill one of the big roles (face, trapfinder, scout, healer, utility mage), that's 0.5 points guaranteed. If you fit in another of those boxes, or have enough random odds and ends to convince me that you'll typically be useful, that's another 0.5 points.

You clearly don't fill one of the big five roles (sending a skeleton marching into a trap doesn't count because you lack the means to then disable it), so do you qualify on the second count? I'm going to say: only partially. Many noncombat challenges aren't helped further by knowledge, so you don't meet the threshold for being 'typically' useful with those checks alone. Have (+0.25) I guess.

I'm totally agree with your interpretation of necromancer's class skills. That's why I bought all my Knowledges, but arcana as cross-class skills. I think "Knowledge(Any)" could mean I can get any one Knowledge as in-class, but I didn't rely on it.

Whoops. (+0.25) added in Elegance.

I see you missed something.
My Returned Mages. Ranged touch poison attack with +3 AB (+2 from Necromantic Might) and 2d6 poison damage without any saves plus more 2d6 poison damage with Fort save. And I can have up to 14 of them. I think it is worth some points in the UoSI.

That's not what 'Raise Skeleton Mage' summons.


(Diablerie, page 80)

By RAW, the 'bone mage', 'returned mage', whatever, those are all different monsters that happen to be under the same heading (much like demons in the monster manual). If 'skeleton mage' was mentioned nowhere, as you argue, I'd be inclined to agree with your reasoning, but it very clearly gets mention, and it's not a poison-shooter. Yes, this means that Raise Skeleton Mage is kind of a crappy spell: such are the perils of using obscure poorly-written sourcebooks.

[loky1109]

Updated table.

Question for you, Inevitability.

I'm going to say: only partially. Many noncombat challenges aren't helped further by knowledge, so you don't meet the threshold for being 'typically' useful with those checks alone. Have (+0.25) I guess.

Is this +0.25 the same that already were in general judging or additional?

[Inevitability]

Updated table.

Question for you, Inevitability.


Is this +0.25 the same that already were in general judging or additional?

The scores in my judging post are updated after disputes. I always go back and edit that, to have all rankings in the same place.

[loky1109]

The scores in my judging post are updated after disputes. I always go back and edit that, to have all rankings in the same place.

Oh... I see now.

Updated table!

Name	Alignment / Race	Class Levels	Chef	Inevitability	Total	Place
Modayn Mo'problums	TN Warforged	Deadly Hunter Favored Environment Spontaneous Affliction Fire Elemental Companion Druid 5/Landforged Walker 1		13.00	13.00	4th
Naa'it Sabes	TN (ex-familiar) Hairy Spider	Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 1		-	-	N/A
Najka Valukar	NE Half-Drow	Druid 5/Cleric of Vulkoor 1		13.75	13.75	2nd
Nyx, pt. 2	CE Human	Factotum 3/Drow Martial Rogue 2/Chameleon 1		11.25	11.25	6th
Sabina Daisy Atis	LG Anthropomorphic Terrestrially Adapted Stingray	Hit and Run Fighter 2/Monk 2		11.50	11.50	5th
Master Necromancer Xul	TN Human	Necromancer 6		14.00	14.00	1st
Zashi	?? Anthropomorphic Huge Viper	Binder 3		13.25	13.25	3rd
Clever Girl Zhu	CN Athach	-		13.00	13.00	4th

[Zaq]

Okay, I've delayed long enough. A thousand endless apologies, my friends. You've all been so patient with me, both this round and over and over.

Name	Alignment / Race	Class Levels	Chef	Inevitability	Total	Place
Modayn Mo'problums	TN Warforged	Deadly Hunter Favored Environment Spontaneous Affliction Fire Elemental Companion Druid 5/Landforged Walker 1	daremetoidareyo	13.00	13.00	4th
Naa'it Sabes	TN (ex-familiar) Hairy Spider	Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 1	Inevitability	-	-	N/A
Najka Valukar	NE Half-Drow	Druid 5/Cleric of Vulkoor 1	MinimanMidget	13.75	13.75	2nd
Nyx, pt. 2	CE Human	Factotum 3/Drow Martial Rogue 2/Chameleon 1	Venger	11.25	11.25	6th
Sabina Daisy Atis	LG Anthropomorphic Terrestrially Adapted Stingray	Hit and Run Fighter 2/Monk 2	daremetoidareyo	11.50	11.50	5th
Master Necromancer Xul	TN Human	Necromancer 6	loky1109	14.00	14.00	1st
Zashi	?? Anthropomorphic Huge Viper	Binder 3	Zarvistic	13.25	13.25	3rd
Clever Girl Zhu	CN Athach	-	loky1109	13.00	13.00	4th

Congrats to loky1109 for gold, MinimanMidget for silver, and Zarvistic for bronze! Eternal thanks to Inevitability (Honorable Mention) for judging.

I have a big announcement to make. I know you've all noticed that it's taking me longer and longer to post builds, reveals, updates, and so on. I've made the decision that I need to step away from my role as Chair. I absolutely loved doing this and I'm really glad I did, but I need to pass the torch for now (and hey, maybe I'll even occasionally get in an entry or two in the future!). You're all absolute rock stars and I love the little sub-community that's gathered here. But the contest isn't ending! Going forward, Venger will be taking over as the new Chair for the Iron Chef E6 competition. Many many many thanks to Venger for agreeing to put on the hat, and thanks again to every one of you for joining me for all this through the years!

[RaiKirah]

Thanks for running this competition for so long Zaq, it's been much appreciated!!

[thorr-kan]

Zaq, thanks for everything. You've made this a going concern for quite awhile and done a great job. You'll be missed...so you better have some submissions ready!

Venger, welcome to the Chair. I'm looking forward to seeing what you've got up your sleeve. Good luck!

[MinimanMidget]

Thanks for running this for so long, Zaq! Enjoy your retirement, and maybe even take advantage of the opportunity to win a few rounds yourself!